Why are there over 2,000 subscribers but posts get very little engagement? by 7874 in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Checking in to say that while I used to be more active on here, I’m still around. Just lurking these days. And this is the only sub I come to saidit for. I left Reddit because it became a cesspool of censorship and inanity but haven’t replaced it with anything.

More drag, more cis crap, more "queer history" by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, harvey milk, who gave his life for the movement and was assassinated, doesnt count.

Interesting point. Harvey Milk used to be synonymous with the gay rights movement. I can't remember the last time I heard anyone mention him. Guess as a "cis white gay," he's not useful to the woke/LGBTQ narrative anymore. Question for Gen Z: do you know who he is?

Just another form of gay erasure? by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting insight. And this is consistent with what I'm seeing in online dating. Every woman appears to be listing her pronouns in their bios (many with some kind of non-binary identification and stereotypical style to go with it), but most women not listing their sexual orientation. Almost no one is listing lesbian or bisexual. Some list the ambiguous "queer" and fewer than that list "pansexual." And the pansexuals I seem to come across IRL appear to be lesbian women dating a trans man (or sometimes a non-binary woman) and therefore they can't call themselves lesbians because that would reveal that they're only attracted to the female sex, which is what their dating history shows (and most gay women don't like to call ourselves "lesbians" anyway though we will talk about "lesbian culture"). Or woke spicy straight women engaging in identity tourism who in some cases may try a short fling with a woman for street cred.

Sailing Straight by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fire Island is a beach town by the Hamptons in New York. It has some heritage with gay tourism/vacationing. You’re thinking of Fyre Festival in the Bahamas.

LOVING: A Photographic History I've always been a fan of old photos like these. They may not all be couples but it's nice to wonder. by xandit in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing. I need to see more uplifting things like this right now.

Former mod of r/detrans was "majorly confused," thought she was bisexual before realizing she is actually straight by reluctant_commenter in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just wanted to pop in to say I appreciate the issues raised by this post and I really appreciate the high quality and also empathetic analysis demonstrated in the comments here. It makes me especially grateful that this place exists.

I also enjoy Helena’s commentary and analysis. She comes across as so self-aware and clear-headed now that I can only imagine how mind-boggling things were for this ideology to disorient her in such a way. This is why I really feel for young people.

Cute teen lesbian couple. No, wait... by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Was this Helena? Can you link the specific interview?

The New Gay Liberation Front 🌈 by HelloMomo in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Homophile/homophilia is what the first gay rights org in America styled itself as (as an opposite to homophobia). “Phile” focused on love as opposed to “sex.” This was discussed in David Carter’s book Stonewall. It’s not immediately suspect to me, but I can see why people may be adverse to it. It makes it easy for detractors to try to smear it with presumed pedophilia connections. Sadly we LGB aren’t the keepers of /educators on our own history so this is easy for outsiders to do.

I will also keep my eye out for this org. I’ve liked what Kurtis and Belissa have to say (though from my recollection Belissa needs a bit more polish and can sound like she’s repeating talking points rather than explaining them to the uninitiated. I definitely want there to be more non-rad fem lesbian representation and some clear representation and support of bisexual people.

In any case the rise of new institutions is promising itself. I think this is the only way we get past this dark chapter in LGB history. But unfortunately each aspect of the messaging has to be very carefully vetted. They need both lawyers and people with PR/marketing vetting this.

FYI, for those unaware Donovan was interviewed by Benjamin Boyce a few months ago. I haven’t seen it yet but will watch. It would be beneficial to be able to aggregate the known resources we have on these individuals to assess their perspectives.

Sunday Social - open chat! by TumbleweedFireflies in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m sharing this here because it’s hard for me to open up and be vulnerable to my friends and family IRL and it’s really hard to talk to my straight female friends about my relationships with women. I’ve been in a rough patch for a bit now and the last few weeks I went from feeling really secure and good about my relationship to it all crashing and burning spectacularly. I’m both confused and creeped out by my ex’s behavior at the end and my head is still reeling. I feel like I’ve taken crazy pills. I want to move on but I’m so damn hurt right now. I know she ultimately revealed herself to not be the person for me but there was also so much good between us. I can’t imagine having better sexual chemistry with anyone and I still miss all the good things about her. There was a period of time where it felt like we could talk about anything until she did a 180. I’m also just so hurt and mad and resisting the urge to give her a piece of my mind about what she put me through and what a hypocrite she is, but I know that’s fruitless and childish.

I previously also wanted to remain friends with her but I don’t know anymore. I at least want things to be civil again. But I don’t think I could ever trust her with anything personal ever again.

GC Twitters criticism of Pete & Chasten Buttigiegs Adoption is getting homophobic by Criticallacitirc in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Edit: My mistake. I was thrown off by some of the criticisms stating or implying that the Buttigiegs had used a surrogate when in reality they adopted. I will keep my comment up but with that caveat.

My immediate impression is that the reaction is more driven by Pete and Chasten being two men than gay men specifically though I wouldn’t go so far as to say that them being gay plays no role whatsoever in this attitude. I do think many radfems have some issues of homophobia and lesbophobia that they seem blind to in part because they’ve become so hypersensitive to any perceived slight/erasure of women. I am trying to distance myself from being hypersensitive myself. A lot of them have been vocal supporters of gay rights for reasons other than respect for the existence of homosexuality and view gay men as traitors and actual homosexual females as disposable/tools. It’s a weird dynamic.

But no, it does not help anyone when institutions like Pink News promote surrogacy as a gay rights issue, which I absolutely do not think it should be. I do think surrogacy is a particularly touchy and fraught subject that is even more so in the current political climate.

Bridesmaid demands bride disinvite her father or she will not attend the wedding. by Finnegan7921 in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This strikes me as such an alien reaction from the bridesmaid and all of these idiot commenters. I cannot imagine as a bridesmaid or any level of guest asking a bride to disinvite her father solely because of his feelings about gay people, whether or not I brought a woman as a wedding guest and I don’t know any gay person who would expect the same, let alone have this thought even cross our minds as a possibility. Let alone if it wasn’t even me, but my hypothetical child. What’s the child’s relation to these people? It’s common for non-related children or guests to not even be invited. How old are the child and the bridesmaid? If you are concerned about the well-being of your child, you can set reasonable precautions or have them not go if you think their emotional well-being is in danger. It sounds like the father offered to shut up and steer clear. I can’t imagine expecting or asking for more than that.

And how can this bridesmaid be so sure that no one else would be thrown off and “misgender” her child purposely or not because they see a tomboy not an actual boy? Does she expect every other guest to be screened for their beliefs to be approved ahead of time? What about the 80+ year olds who literally cannot even wrap their minds around the concept or transgenderism? Should they be screened for their thoughts about race relations, various religious groups, and immigration as well? And I say this as someone who didn’t invite one of her parents to her wedding for my own (non-ideological reasons). The narcissism is strong with this lady. I hope this child is not a victim of her mother’s Munchausen’s. In any case, this mother is setting up her child for a world of hurt by going to great lengths to prop up a delusion that cannot withstand the constant threat of reality.

Kinda intimate rant... Kinda NSFW by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was so excited Vanessa finally got her medal in her 4th Olympics. She looked better than ever and really deserved it. I do agree she is very beautiful. There’s a cool video comparing the strength/flexibility metrics of her body to other female athletes.

Kinda intimate rant... Kinda NSFW by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am planning to post a more substantive response to your OP because a lot of it resonates with me. But for now let me just say I am a huge fan of artistic gymnastics too. And Jade Carey’s gymnastics are very impressive and I’m happy to have been able to see her perform live. She is and seems way too young for me though lol. But I do low key have a crush on Ellie Black. I also didn’t truly appreciate her as a gymnast either until I saw her perform live. She’s very dynamic. So I went to follow her on Instagram and it’s basically a thirst trap for me.

Also, of course I was banned from r/gymnastics because I did not bow down to gender identity ideology and therefore was told that I should not be allowed to participate in the Gymternet. 🙄

Doesn’t matter how carefully you speak or if you stick to fact-based non-ideological language. Enough young women/girls have been trained to have a thoughtless knee-jerk reaction of just saying that your words are thinly veiled transphobia and therefore do not merit a substantive response, which saves them from having to exercise any brain power or critical thinking. And the mods are trained to insta-ban. I don’t think I even got an explanation of what I was banned for by the mods. But a user commented that they were trying to get me banned for transphobic dog whistles after I commented about homophobic censorship on a post about pride/LGBTQ “allyship.”

New NY Gov is pushing this shit too 😩 by spanishprofanity in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He might see it as a ticket to relevance and power because without it, as just a gay black man engaging in drag with his background, he would not be given any kind of platform. In my area, there are a lot of queer/trans grifters with little to no education, job history, or skills who style themselves as activists and people only give them a platform, a seat on boards, or quote them in the news because of their trans identification and in many cases also their race because now that they style themselves as "trans women of color." It's been a plague on the local former gay rights' organizations, which are now experiencing both brain drain and hostile takeovers and really need to be replaced by new institutions. And the sad part is young black gay (largely male) youth are an especially vulnerable demographic here and they're getting left in the dust or transing. Not to mention they are entirely unhelped by the glamorizing of "sex work." Any time there is a death of a trans person it's always abundantly clear that it's a young, black homosexual male prostitute, though this is ambiguated in the narrative. And the articles always seem to manage to quote one of the trans grifters.

Actor Simon Callow steps bravely up to the plate by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ian McKellen said some unhelpful daft things earlier this year in painting gay people as bigots against trans people in the same way that heterosexual people have been bigots against gay people (but also that he is uncomfortable with the word "queer" for himself), but unless I'm mistaken, he has not spoken out with respect to Stonewall since its public disgracing within the last few months. Given that he is a founding member of Stonewall, his silence seems to be notable. Why hasn't he come to their rescue? Why stay silent? Could it be that he sees which way the wind is blowing?

Actor Simon Callow steps bravely up to the plate by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Brits are again displaying a better track record than prominent Americans in speaking out. I appreciate that the conservative press of the UK is willing to call attention to and platform warnings about the harm extreme gender ideology and activism uniquely poses to LGB people, especially LGB youth and not just women. This often gets danced around in the U.S. even when criticism of trans activism is raised.

I must commend Simon for his courage and deftness here. He focused on the nature of the activism and only impliedly criticized the ideology by raising how it can confuse gay kids. He pointed out that there are issues to be discussed such as appropriate age for transitioning, and that should be allowed to discuss openly. The worst TRAs will use their distraction tactics by saying things like, "Anything can be discussed? What about Nazism?" and harp on word choices like "lure," but the lack of the general ability to discuss certain issues and the fear surrounding it is something that almost everyone in the West can recognize right now. And the second we can talk about these issues this whole ideology unravels itself. We really should focus more on the nature of the activism and how the laws and policies are coming about.

Snowflakes mad for calling a relationship between a man and a woman straight. Actual bi people don't seem to care by Mermer in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This is like calling a relationship between a gay person who has not yet figured out they’re gay and a member of the opposite sex a “queer relationship.” I once referred to my prior relationship with my husband as heterosexual and my friend said it wasn’t heterosexual because I was gay, and I said no it was heterosexual because it was between members of the opposite sex and calling it anything but that felt meaningless and obscures the unique struggles I experience now in same-sex dating/relationships.

How can we meaningfully talk about unique issues of gay/lesbian/homosexual relationships if we don’t make this distinction? It’s not about our individual sexual orientations. It’s about the relationship itself. Gay and bi people have always been free to marry members of the opposite sex. It’s the same-sex aspect from which the unique legal, political, and social issues and barriers arise.

Transwoman deemed "unquestionably female" in court case against Hobby Lobby; three-judge panel denies that "sex is immutable" - Bloomberg by reluctant_commenter in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am overdue for preparing an analysis of the legal landscape of this stuff, at least in the U.S. It’s a Herculean task though. The Bostock majority opinion which became federal law in 2020 absolutely did not prohibit employment discrimination based on “gender identity.” It held that “because of . . . sex” in Title VII necessarily encompasses “sexual orientation” and “transgender status.” It did not even mention “gender identity.” “Gender identity” was only mentioned by Justice Alito in passing in his dissent.

The majority opinion did not define “transgender status.” Justice Gorsuch and his clerks were made more than aware of the concept of “gender identity” and it was specifically not included in the opinion and a majority of justices signed on to that opinion when they could have written concurring opinions if they wanted to recognize “gender identity.” They specifically chose not to. It follows that “transgender status” does not mean “gender identity.”

Not to mention the opinion took care to recognize the steps that plaintiff Aimee Stephens (MtF) took to transition. Hardly a matter of simple self-identification without anything more.

"If you're lesbian, you must necessarily be into kink and/or infantilization" - r/actualtransbians posts a "lesbian alignment chart" by reluctant_commenter in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like I shouldn't have to say it, but I'm far from a prude, and this makes my skin crawl to read. This is just so off-putting that words cannot express it. Lesbians are whole women with whole relationships with one another. Dividing things up this way is unnatural, inaccurate, and harmful. Even if the content itself were relatable. Which it's not. This was not put together by and is not being validated by any female who's actually ever been in a relationship with another female. These are the thoughts of porn and anime-addicted men/boys and the impressionable women/girls that they influence who lack their own experience to know better.

Catch-22: When you want to have gay sex, but it has to be PiV sex by ThrowMeAway2879 in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is a good analogy. And yes the whole body experience is an important point. Same-sex attraction is a whole body experience. We’re not attracted to singular body parts and personalities in isolation. It’s a package deal. The kind of sex they want us to have sounds weird, disembodied, and disconnected. Like glory holes or something. Sure, some people get off to that but it’s not enough for most people who want the full connection to a person we are attracted to in every way.

Alphabet Soup LLC, a "LGBTQIA+ affirming" self-described provider of "sexuality and relationship education and coaching," sexually grooms children by reluctant_commenter in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Idk if it applies here but I’ve noticed a trend of co-opting language that is used by those opposing gender ideology and using it for pro-gender ideology purposes. The practical effect, whether it’s a specific goal or not, is to bury content that is critical of gender ideology behind a wall of gender propaganda. I noticed that happened with the phrase “Peak Trans.”

I will have to look into this org.

Save our gays! Stamp out cis phallocentrism! by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting how both lesbians not being attracted to transwomen and gay men not being attracted to transmen are both framed as misogyny and neither seems to ever be framed as misandry. Because they want to have their cake and eat it too. Whatever helps them shoehorn their struggles against reality into the social justice template to trigger maximum knee-jerk outrage.

Asexual Daddy Bear - Clown World parties on by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do they ever stop to consider that a key reason why asexuality is poorly understood is because they do such a bad job explaining it or they don’t even try to? I hear “asexual doesn’t mean X” a lot. But like what does it actually mean. So many words, so little explanation.

FYI, Tim Gunn is also another (former?) gay-paired man who says he is asexual and has been celibate for decades. Seems a bit more straightforward since he’s not one of those people having an obvious sexuality while claiming asexuality. It seems like it makes more sense when someone is not inclined to pursue any relationships. I know people like that. But for those who do, what are you basing those relationships on? How do you decide who you want to be in a relationship with? Is it just close friends with interwoven personal and social lives?

American Medical Association (AMA) makes statement that "Sex should be removed as a legal designation on the public part of birth certificates" - LGB Alliance thread by reluctant_commenter in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sometimes I find that there are no words to respond to the most important stories, and I suspect others feel the same. Hence the value or your post isn’t reflected in the comments.

But this is some crazy shit and from back in June no less? The institutional capture is so widespread. Are there any major institutions still standing? I would like to hear the stories from within each institution.

I’ve noticed for a lot of former gay rights orgs, the takeovers were effectuated by painting the old-guard leaders and activists as racist and manufacturing myths like Marsha P. Johnson the forgotten trans woman of color who every org was painted to have forsaken and turned their backs on. Trans was framed as being about gender identify the whole time. Malcolm Michaels was no longer a gay activist for same sex rights but an ally who sacrificed for a cause not his own out of the goodness his heart. The absence of actual relevant history was used as evidence that the real stories had been suppressed, and converted into further calls to action.

Matey Katy and the transphobic dogwhistle of same-sex attraction by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, they really don’t want to leave it up to our senses. If they did, what would be the purpose of the majority of their demands? Why would we need pronouns in bios? Wouldn’t asking someone their pronouns then be seen as insulting? Why would we need self-ID?

The moment one of them appears in a debate, they know it’s over. We need a mantra of our own that’s akin to “OK let’s talk about it.” Never before has a “Civil Rights Movement” shied so much away from debating.

I wonder if kids these days are having any debates in secondary school. I participated in so many gay marriage and other debates in my day and I’m a better person for it. We actually had to ask each other questions and answer them or be seen to dodge them or not have a sufficient response. We had to confront our weaknesses and improve our arguments. It was great when religious people relied on scripture and religious beliefs because we have the First Amendment in the U.S. and I didn’t subscribe to those religions. When the class period ended, we returned to business as usual. There were no calls for anyone to not be allowed to have or share their opinions even if they said homosexuality was unnatural/sinful. There was no attempt to explain why homosexuality was harmful beyond it being contrary to religious tenets. The debate didn’t hurt me because I found the contrary arguments to be weak. Free speech is what protected me, not hurt me. It made me more confident in my positions.

What is actually happening in schools right now? Are they not allowed to openly vehemently disagree about anything?

We are lesbians together by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Question for those who believe in gender ideology: if my partner and I are both biologically female and we do not believe in gender ideology or that we have gender identities, meaning we accept that we’re female and believe (like most the world) that that alone (nothing more and nothing less) makes us women, what is our relationship? Is it gay/lesbian? Especially if we don’t feel ourselves to be playing the “social role of a woman.” What even is the social role of a woman in a lesbian relationship? Sounds like the inverse of asking who the man is? We know we’re unambiguously biologically female and everyone else can and does easily discern that too, and treats us accordingly.

I guess the threshold question is, under gender ideology, what is each of is considered? Are we cis? Are we non-binary? My partner only buys men’s clothes and doesn’t feel comfortable in clothing from women’s clothing departments. What then?

I feel depressed when women talk about guys (I'm a lesbian) by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know you've been struggling lately because you feel constrained by your small dating pool as a lesbian. It's rough. It's a way in which the chips are stacked against us, and can make life very lonely. But I also don't mean for my statement to be one about relative privilege between bisexual and lesbian women. Just that it's a fundamental misunderstanding or blindspot a lot of bisexual women have. When I was trying to figure myself out and even afterward, I spent some time in bisexual spaces just listening to the discourse and whatnot, especially because a lot of it still felt relevant to be as someone who had come out while married to a man. I do think that this has given me some insight into both bisexual women and lesbians' blindspots with one another. Anyway, I did often see/hear expressed "What's the difference? We're both attracted to women!" and a general inability or unwillingness from those women to recognize a huge experiential difference between bisexual and lesbian women and that that difference might genuinely be meaningful to a lot of lesbians. I don't think it's necessarily malicious, just people not knowing what they don't know, having this validated by everyone all over the place, and viewing things solely from the perspective of their own self-interest. It's also quite fashionable and PC right now to rag on homosexual people as "gatekeepers."

I feel depressed when women talk about guys (I'm a lesbian) by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I relate to almost everything you say. It's not the attraction to women that causes me stress and anxiety for the most part. When I'm with a woman, it feels very right and good, not wrong or shameful. The lack of attraction to men is the most alienating part. I do think a lot of bisexual women have a hard time understanding this being a huge difference felt by many lesbians, especially because I think it is the basis of the stigma against us, rather than our attraction to women.

I never felt that same-sex attraction was wrong. Since the moment I heard it was a thing (in the context of the gay marriage debate when I was in middle school), it made sense to me and I always supported same-sex rights. But I refused to see myself as one of them (. . . us). And it was because of my fear of being different. I never judged anyone else negatively for being gay, lesbian, or bi but I did not want to accept that my life would be harder in this way. I don't mind when my female friends talk about guys, but I can't say that I've been in a situation where I was with a group of women where they kept going on and on about men.

To be honest, I would feel weirder if women thought they couldn't or shouldn't talk about men around me or if people were tripping over themselves trying not to offend me. I really just want to be treated like any other woman. I understand that it's a lot harder when you're trying to hold it all in to not out yourself as a lesbian because you can't make light of the guy talk when I think humor is the best way to handle it around those who know you're gay.

All of this being said, I'm dealing with my own struggles and unprocessed issues that relate to my being gay that I may share in the near future on here. Life is definitely lonely right now and I feel alienated from "LGBTQ culture" or whatever that means.

Demisexuality from an embarrassed ex-demisexual by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Many years ago I heard about "demisexual" in a context where it was not being pushed as a sexual orientation or something that anyone would outwardly brand themselves with for all the public to see, but rather as a way to understand the way in which one might experience their sexuality. I didn't think much of it, but I thought it kind of described me and I recall relating that to a friend once. In reality, it was an incorrect way of explaining to myself why I was not attracted to men, especially at a time when I lacked close male friends or an interest in having any, and so I could continue to pretend my attraction to women was not there and absolutely under no circumstances give a name to that. It was a way for me to hold the door open for attraction to men that never came because I did assume attraction to men was a given and couldn't imagine myself as a lesbian of all things.

As a side note, but an important one for me, this article once again stands out to me in that it points out that the author identifies as a radical feminist when I'm not sure that it's all that relevant to this article. Once again, it really does feel like nearly all of the lesbian and bisexual-female content from LAGN comes from radical feminists, and this is very alienating to a potential user base. It contributes to the impression that every lesbian who doesn't subscribe to gender ideology is a radical feminist, when I find a lot of radfemmery almost as alienating as gender ideology. If you go to the lesbian section on Ovarit, it is very alienating and filled with discourse that is alien and irrelevant to myself and to the kind of discussions I have with lesbians IRL and is political lesbian talk. For example, obnoxious discourse on "performing femininity" when I don't "perform" femininity for men or women. Both gender ideologues and radfems both seem to not understand that not everything is an expression of gender.

Using LAGN as a radfem mouthpiece also makes it so that LAGN is doing what I would like to see less of: tying sexual orientation to politics. If LAGN wants to thrive, I think it needs to be a welcoming place for LGBs of different stripes that includes non-political, non-gender focused content. Where am I supposed to go when I want LGB content but want to get away from gender talk, not just hear a different perspective on gender talk?

I don't know by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'll still like to advocate and help on behalf of homosexuality, because that's also a part of me

Well, if you are bisexual, then you are bisexual right? Not half heterosexual and half homosexual, but a whole bisexual :)

I have some thoughts on this. I think arguably bisexuality does include both a homosexual orientation and a heterosexual orientation. This makes sense to me in how I've been thinking about sexual orientation as of late, as in, sexual orientation being a combination of how we each feel toward each of the sexes. This is in line with that article posted by a gay man named Duncan on Medium before his account was banned for wrongthink since he's a homosexual that does not believe in gender ideology.

In line with this thinking, if you are homosexual, you are attracted to the same sex and not attracted to the opposite sex. But that lack of attraction to the opposite sex can be on a spectrum of neutral, mere non-attraction to sexual repulsion/revulsion. Same with heterosexuality, but in reverse.

When it comes to bisexuality, a lot of bisexual people seem to have different degrees of attraction to each of the sexes. It does seem that bisexuality is, or can be thought of or experienced as, a combination of two separate orientations. This is also how the Kinsey scale theorizes bisexuality. I think it's an interesting topic and one I would like to hear bisexual perspectives on, both those who see themselves as fully attracted to both sexes and ones who skew one way or the other.

Perhaps we can also talk about whether monosexuals can have different degrees of attraction to the sex they are attracted to. This is harder for me to theorize on my own because I am quite attracted to women. But maybe there is room for the so called "asexual" lesbians here? I don't know, just a thought and not the main point of this comment.

AGP is not an orientation--I made a video by PotatoCake in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I agree that AGP is not a sexual orientation. It is an attraction to a literal impossibility and in practice seems to necessarily involve treating other human beings as objects specifically to validate that which is not possible. That is not a sexual orientation, is not healthy to validate as such, and there are a lot of unsavory consequences that flow from treating it as such. Humanizing those who suffer from paraphilias and want to live productive lives does not require validating those paraphilias as a sexual orientation. Never have we been closer to making reality things like "Next, people will want to marry their toasters/animals" that opponents of same-sex marriage would often say as scare tactics and to make fun of us.

That being said, I watched some (not all of your video), have seen other posts you've made in various subsaidits on here under a different username (u/FluffyPotato) and read about your experiences on Medium.com, and I have to ask, are you doing OK? How is your own mental health? Do you have the support of friends and family? Do you have your own support team? Dealing with gender ideology is hard on all of our mental health. It's a coercive mindfuck, so it is totally rational to be distressed by it. That being said, there's a lot in everything I've seen from you (both in terms of content and delivery) that indicates mental health issues of your own, which I hope you have support for. And if there's anything I know, being peaked about gender ideology and the loneliness that comes from that is going to exacerbate any of our own mental health issues.

/r/lgbt confirms that raping ones mother is a much lesser crime than being misgendered by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Put this is in the file of primary peaking material. No one whose mind hasn't been fried by ideology thinks this way. And any rational person can see using male pronouns to describe an obvious male raping his mother is not "punishing" by using male pronouns but speaking in necessary factual terms.

The lesbians who excuse and enable this gender nonsense need to know that they are making it so that "lesbians" are statistically the most violent demographic and the most likely to commit acts of pedophilia. That's what validating males as lesbians gets us. We are such a small demographic that it's easy for our statistics to be skewed in this direction. We will look like the ones who need to be kept out of women's locker rooms ffs.

"It literally makes me insane" by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I love your statistical analyses so I would love to see that.

We definitely have a statistics problem in the alphabet soup. And it seems that they’re always manipulated and harnessed to the benefit of TQ. Statistics that indicate problems for us will solely get cited as a call to action for them (statistics about violence and criminalization especially). I’ve started being more vocal about this IRL as real life examples come up. And it’s why we need to have demographic information collected at a factual level not just an identity level. Like sure see what identities people identify as and look for incongruence between label and facts. Like cool you identify as “gay” and a “man” but your sex is female, you’re only attracted to members of the male sex, and your gender identity is male. That’s the stuff we need to know.

Edit: On another note, it might be interesting for you to ask people you know when they first heard the phrase “gender identity.” I’m not lying when I say that I only started hearing the words in 2017/2018. In 2017, as a lawyer I was working on preparing a diversity training for a company and I came across the phrases “gender identity,” “gender expression,” and some other gender phrase in some source material. At first I was like “oh this makes sense” and then I realized no it didn’t because I could not explain it in my own words. It did not resonate at all for me. And I was very liberal and woke. I had graduated college a few years before and never heard those words or phrases come up. No one was talking about “transgender” or “transexual.” I was not out as gay yet and I was not hanging around gay spaces. Around 2018 is when I started being in gay spaces more and I looked up “non-binary” for the first time in early 2019. And it made no sense. I figured I was missing something. I didn’t start hearing about “gender identity” in public discourse outside of LGBT spaces until 2019.

This stuff is very, very recent. And considered very niche and irrelevant by most people. I’m a millennial not Gen Z though, and if I had to make a guess there was a few year delay while the newly indoctrinated were in college before they gathered and entered the workforce where they staked out their activism.

If you want to see the changes in another context look at media publications and what they said about gay/LGBTQ/gender stuff before late 2019 and after. That was the tipping point. There was a huge media crackdown at that point, not long before COVID lockdown. This stuff has really flourished when people were interacting in person less than ever. And by media crackdown, I mean look at articles on these topics by the same publication (i.e, NY Times, the Atlantic, WaPost, etc.). They get sanctimonious and very dystopian now and present a very distorted view of everything without including other perspectives. It’s very “We’ve Always Been at War With East Asia.”

I also recently ran some searches through my work emails to see when the gender/LGBTQ madness came to my workplace and it was mid-2020. I think a lot of companies started formally adopted the guidance of the HRC around that time.

Catch-22: When you want to have gay sex, but it has to be PiV sex by ThrowMeAway2879 in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That place has an interesting mix of people on the adversary and advocate sides, but I can’t say I’ve spent any time there. I assume it’s not for lesbians, or at least real ones.

Catch-22: When you want to have gay sex, but it has to be PiV sex by ThrowMeAway2879 in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Would you refer to yourself in the dating context as a “side”? I heard that word for the first time recently.

I hear you with the top/bottom stereotypes. It’s become a weird feature of online “lesbian” culture that’s bled into real life too, and it makes even less sense for us. I posted on here recently that a few months back, a practical lesbian stranger said to my girlfriend about me “she’s the top, isn’t she?” And I have no idea if we was even trying to comment on my presumed sexual behavior or what she presumed about my personality or what. It was weird though. I can only imagine it’s because she was remarking on a perceived incongruence because I’m not particularly masculine in my style and my girlfriend is, and on the whole in public I’m the one who tends to hold her and exhibit what I guess you may consider more leading body language. She’s also a bit taller than me (though we both fall in the upper end of average/lower end of tall height range if I’m not wearing heels). So if you have a simplistic mindset of masculine style = more dominant interpersonal behavior = sexually dominant, maybe you think that’s notable.

It does seem like stereotyping is getting worse not better.

"It literally makes me insane" by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Catch-22: When you want to have gay sex, but it has to be PiV sex by ThrowMeAway2879 in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I figured that I didn’t have to say that because that is a given. But even without a prostate some women do enjoy anal stimulation/anal sex and do get physical pleasure from it. I’m stating this because I have seen some flat-out denial on here/related subsaidits from some women who stated they did not believe that any women genuinely like this or get physical pleasure from it, and that’s misinformation. Do I find it surprising that a woman is posting online that she doesn’t want to have it? Absolutely not. Do I wonder how such a woman can think she’s a gay man? Yes, for all the reasons.

Edit: Because apparently I do have to say it, yes, I know men have prostates and women do not. Obviously. But my point is that it's not the end all be all. I'm not really disagree with the comment I was responding to but adding this comment as a rider because of some related misinformation I've seen repeated as fact that some women like to get dogmatic about, out of some likely combination of ignorance, lack of personal experience, and ideological reasons.

Catch-22: When you want to have gay sex, but it has to be PiV sex by ThrowMeAway2879 in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not a man, and welcome responses from the many gay/bi men in here with more experience with this on the male end. From my limited female perspective it does seem that for men both and women who genuinely like to receive anal sex, a major component of it is psychological. Once upon a time on r/agb I saw a question directed to bottoms about whether they enjoyed anal sex more from a psychological standpoint or a physical standpoint, and most seemed to say the psychological standpoint. For many it's both, but one more than the other, or one adds to the other. For others, it's only one not the other. I think on the female end, the psychological aspect is doing more work, but many women can and do feel physical pleasure from anal sex. For both men and women, it does seem to go with enjoying playing a submissive role in sex.

But no, Teen Vogue, just because I recognize that does not mean I think you should be marketing it to teen girls. And I certainly find the expectation that anyone should be into it a disturbing way in which porn has warped brains and interfered with real life for many people.

Catch-22: When you want to have gay sex, but it has to be PiV sex by ThrowMeAway2879 in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 23 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

From the comments:

He said piv was okay, but it isn't. He lied--to himself and then to you.

Again with the incel thinking. Characterizing a gay/bisexual man who tried to be into vagina or work around it as a "liar" is gross. LGBTQ cultists are always telling us we must be "inclusive," "open-minded," not "gatekeep" (have boundaries), and give trans people a chance and not judge them by their genitals. Now you're a liar if you try sexual activity that you end up not being into. Imagine if it was a male OP writing about his girlfriend saying she would be willing to try [insert sex act] and then realizing she doesn't like it. Probably wouldn't elicit the same comment.

On the flipside, this also does go with what I've said before, which is that there is a market out there for bisexual or straight men to lie about being gay in order to have anal and other kinds of sex with women who want to be validated as trans men. These are weird times we're living in.

BBC quietly corrects article about High Court puberty blockers decision (Keira Bell ruling) - removes by reluctant_commenter in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We need redlines/comparisons from a site like draftable.com for this to be shown effectively. It's a very good catch.

"It literally makes me insane" by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yes and it wasn’t even that long ago. That’s actually still what the average person thinks of when they think of trans: fragile, mentally ill, highly effeminate homosexual MtF. They were also so few in number and not very visible or discussed in society, not even “LGBT discourse” until perhaps Laverne Cox and Caitlyn Jenner rose to fame as trans people around ~2014/2015. Gay people weren’t being indoctrinated into referring to other gay people and themselves as “LGBT.” We were just “gay.” It’s literally fewer letters even. I will never understand how it’s OK to refer to us with a political label established by lobbying groups trying to amass as many people together as possible under one incongruous, nonsensical umbrella for maximum $$$ and control.

Can we force Nigerians, Australians, and the Vietnamese under one umbrella and call them NAV?

I don't know by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can sympathize with your perspective but I have been with this community since we got kicked off Reddit last July. I was in the middle of typing a comment on that sub. I went to submit the comment and learned it was banned. I had found the sub at the beginning of 2020 and it was an oasis of sanity for me, someone who had not been out for that long and peaked through the process of coming out as an adult and looking for resources to help me and coming head to head with disorienting and aggressive gender identity ideology everywhere I looked.

This included my real-life experience of trying to get an in-community therapist while I struggled with the coming out process. I was connected with a “lesbian” therapist I was told could relate to me, who very clearly was a heterosexual male “transbian.” That experience helped me realize a lot of the issues going on. The words “female” and “lesbian” suddenly had no clear meaning. I was left in a position where I realized I couldn’t say, “no, I want an actual woman” or “this person is obviously biologically male and therefore not a lesbian/a woman/like me.” Yet I was a paying customer and this was a service meant to help me, not validate his internal feelings of himself. It was like this in online forums too including all over Reddit. It felt weird to see people just going along with it. When it came to looking for practical information about lesbian sex, Google searches would render porn or guides that were focused on convincing women that of course males and male anatomy were included on lesbian sex, while I wondered if that’s the case how the hell does any girl or woman realize they’re gay? Female anatomy had everything to do with that for me. It was kind of notable that I wanted to eat pussy and that male anatomy did nothing for me. Also no comment anywhere from any LGBTQ orgs about the pornificaition of the word “lesbian.” How even “LGBTQ” orgs treated “lesbian” like a dirty word.

In those lesbian sex resources, I would be deluged by statements about penises not being “male”, “feminine penises,” and “girldick.” That “trans women are biological females.” That because “trans women are women” and “lesbians are women that are attracted to women” that “lesbians are attracted to trans women unless they’re bigots.” I was told directly that it wasn’t possible for me to be a lesbian and not be attracted to trans women because you never know someone’s biological sex and “trans women” can be completely indistinguishable from biological women. So I was either lying out of bigotry or ignorant about my existing attraction to trans-identifying males. Oh yea, and that males who identify as women have no obligation to disclose they are male to me and have every right to assume themselves into my dating pool (and they were alllll over my dating apps).

You know what all of this is? Traumatizing. It made me question my worldview on everything. I lost so much when I came out as gay. I lost what little family support I had. I lost my marriage to my best friend. I lost his family. And I did not have the community support that everyone assumed I had. I felt and still do feel like I’m in an abusive relationship with whatever purports to be the “LGBTQ community.”

This community is not perfect, but it was the only community I found. There is some trauma-bonding going on here. But we are far more civil, and with a few exceptions (especially the ban-evading), more reserved than the TRAs.

I personally want to focus less on the musings of lunatic randos, though the reactions and validation they receive tend to be the telling part. I am burned out, and want to focus my energy into something more productive. But I’m not going to judge those who need to vent here for their own sanity and in dealing with this traumatic experience. We all need this at times. And where else can you say any of this, no matter how nice you try to sound and how much you mutilate language in trying to convey basic thoughts that were uncontroversial 6 years ago?

Just got asked my pronouns at a job interview. by strawberrysun in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Instead of “well my name, surely” I would sub in an awkward pause followed by stating your name or nickname in a confused but calm tone that conveys, “is this what you wanted?” It’s important to not be too on the nose. I would think they would move on after that point.

Just got asked my pronouns at a job interview. by strawberrysun in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the way to handle it is to politely and indirectly make them feel silly for asking and make them question in their heads and have to justify why they’re asking you. If they already know you’re gay because they’ve looked you up online or from something on your resume, it will be helpful for them to call into question their expectation that you must be used to it and in favor of it.

I think acting genuinely bewildered and caught off guard but not dwelling on it is the best policy.

My what?

My pronouns??

My pronouns for what? Sorry, I’ve never been asked that before.

Then change the subject since this is a job interview.

. . . Only if they persist:

(For how you identify)

In terms of what? Sorry, I don’t understand.

Are you asking me if I’m male or female?

Then proceed to not work there.

Look at my hands and tell me I’m not a lesbian by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 20 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

This is an excellent point. I don’t know anyone with the “lesbian manicure” IRL. I think it looks ghastly and tbh if a lesbian had it, I would assume she’s bad at sex.

How much do you express your sexuality to your straight friends? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You’ve been asking some awesome questions.
Thank you!

I’m like mostly A and it’s been eating away at me and something I want to work on. I’ve been really struggling lately. I have a deep aversion to vulnerability. I think it comes from having a narcissist for a mother who would use whatever she knew I was self-conscious about to hurt me. I haven’t spoken to her in years and yet I still have a fear of her finding out I’m gay. I do tend to try to hide my weaknesses and vulnerabilities from others. And being gay does make me feel vulnerable and I do hate that. On top of that I hate being associated with LGBTQ politics which I see as harmful to children and societally destructive. I came out in the LGBTQ era and quickly realized what the toxicity of gender identity politics. But effectively this means I never really got to experience pride. That I never got to be part of the gay community when it was welcoming to gay people and not overrun by fetishists and opportunists. I can understand why people throw themselves into pride. To wear your vulnerabilities like a shield of armor. I just want to be part of new institutions I can be proud of.

I’m moving to a very gay area soon to help be around more gay people. I already spend a lot of time there because my girlfriend lives there. I do think I need to do this as a first step even though it sounds counter-intuitive.l in terms of making me more comfortable being gay around straight people, particularly the ones I’ve known for a long time.

And everybody in /r/tttt clapped by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Overall, I seem to be attracted to masculine appearing women with an interesting mix of feminine and masculine qualities or feminine appearing women with an interesting mix of feminine and masculine qualities. I personally fall into the latter camp. I guess I like women who surprise me. And it’s all about having some obvious combo of both. Not a blend. Not neither. She was just feminine but demanding and high maintenance.

She has multiple instagram accounts including one for fashion. She is conventionally pretty, feminine in appearance, and wealthy, has expensive taste, and yes did make some thirsty comments to me. And it’s because of this whole fiasco that I ended up committing to the relationship I’m currently in . . . .

This woman was assertive, but not in the ways I’m attracted to. She was loud and demanding to waitstaff. I am an introvert so I tend to do better with extroverts who are chill in many ways. She had no chill and was very exhausting to be around. Also, I didn’t like her voice.

Masterful virtue signalling- but skirt still go spinny by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I haven’t looked into what motivated this so if anyone knows, feel free to share.

However, this is a perfect example of what makes gender ideology activism so frustrating. It’s easy to point to this as about supporting gender non-conformity when it might have also been initiated by a sexual fetishist for cover. And if that were true and you knew that to be the case, you would look insane and like an asshole for pointing it out. But it could also be part of something more wholesome too that runs counter to gender ideology. Like showing that boys are still boys when they wear skirts and still should be treated as such.

Now in our current sociopolitical climate in which gender nonsense has taken ahold of everything, people will look into this and see whatever suits their narrative even if the truth were glaringly obviously something else and there was proof of that.

Forget What Gender Activists Tell You. Here’s What Medical Transition Looks Like [authored by trans-man] by IridescentAnaconda in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Scott is very lucid on these issues. Everything happened quickly for Scott who sobered up to the lie she was sold. She doesn’t think she is male. She feels taken advantage of by practitioners who implanted the idea that she should transition in her head. On why she doesn’t detransition, she like several others have said that that seems harder at this stage than transitioning with the irreversible procedures they’ve gotten.

How was your experience as a gay or bi person in high school? by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was in high school in the 2000s. At that time my mind was preoccupied by more pressing things due to my bad home life, but I had some awareness of the fact that I was attracted to girls/women, but never really dreamed of pursuing it. I couldn’t imagine myself dating anyone of any sex at the time.

No one was out in my high school. But I could sense from the way we interacted with each other that one of my friends was gay. Also the fact that he had Eva Longoria up on his bedroom wall as a pin-up, and that was a super random woman to lust after IMO. 😂 Anyway, I casually brought up that I was attracted to girls/women or at least believed I could be. I don’t remember my phrasing but I brought up the Kinsey Scale which I had heard about and said I thought I could be a 1 or a 2. He said he was relieved to hear me say this because he felt similarly toward men. We didn’t call each ourselves or each other gay, bisexual, or straight. Just talked in factual terms.

Through a lot of cognitive dissonance, a poor mind-body connection and lack of representation of gay women like me, I did fail to connect my feelings to actually being gay. I had a crush on a girl who would become one of my best friends but I didn’t realize that’s what I was feeling. I also had my own pin-up of the model Tasha Tilberg who I constantly talked about being the being the hottest woman ever. My dumb ass didn’t even realize she was openly gay.

Basically, I constantly said and did the gayest shit and no one ever really called me out on it and was like “um what’s going on here?” On the bright side, I was never bullied for being suspected of being gay. I was for being awkward and self-conscious though and for my body being very thin and boyish.

And I don’t think this just was because I was gay but I always struggled to relate to people. I was very intimidated by girls and had zero interest hanging out with most men. It’s funny now because I have a lot more confidence since coming out as gay. I also no longer feel weird around guys because I’m not putting pressure on myself to find them attractive. At the time, I was so weirded out by the idea of dating men. I didn’t go to my senior prom because based on my friends’ plans I felt like I had to go with a guy and I couldn’t stomach that. It felt very wrong and unappealing. Junior prom was fun because I just went with my (almost entirely) female friends.

Overall, my gay experience was non-existent. I had a very opposite experience from my girlfriend who was constantly making out with and hooking up with girls since middle school. Part of it though is that she was visibly gay so every gay/bi girl would reveal themselves to her. At one point she was even in in-patient treatment for an eating disorder and hooking up with her roommate regularly. I thought “How in the actual hell?” Apparently that girl just said one night, “Can I get in your bed with you?” Or something like that and it became a regular thing. Absolutely no one has ever been that forward with me or ever talked to me assuming I was gay. She was also on a million sports teams which included many other gay girls, so that also provided a lot of opportunities I did not have as a non-athlete.

Should we tell her...? by DickFreeBacon in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

They never finish their thoughts or sentences. You don’t feel sexual attraction without an emotional connection to whom? Obviously men, but she knows if she says that she would look just a little too ridiculous dancing in front of the rainbow lights in Playboy bunny pajamas.

To no one's surprise, creator of the "lesbian masterdoc" comes out as bi. by MilkTea in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That and mid-life crises of women who feel trapped or bored in marriages from my amateur research. Based on where I am in life now, I can’t really stand to spend any time there even to poke around and take a temperature check because it is so bizarro land. Last I think I was there I was told I’m privileged for being able to leave my marriage. Like no babe, I actually went through the difficult stuff and worked hard to put myself in a position where I can be independent. That’s not “privilege.” All in the context of a post from a woman justifying how she enjoys sex with her husband but is gay and can’t leave her marriage. I just can’t.

And everybody in /r/tttt clapped by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same. I think the “gold star” topic came up once in the wild for me and it was by a much older women who had just come out as bisexual and wanted to date woman. She said her friend (who sounds suspiciously like an amalgamation of standard comments at r/LBL) said that lesbians won’t date you unless you’re a gold star. I was out with two lesbians, both of whom had been out for nearly a decade and at least one of whom I know not to be a gold star. I’m not a gold star either. Literally no one has ever cared about my history or even asked if I’m a gold star. This seems more like an Internet myth cultivated by the inexperienced and passed on by the inexperienced and it does get cited against lesbians in a very aggressive way. Maybe once or twice online I saw a lesbian seriously state that they only wanted gold star lesbians and one of them was dating a bisexual woman with kids from her previous relationship with a man, so uh, yea.

As a side note, this first lady was a friend of a colleague (really my superior). I was roped into this under the guise of us being welcoming to her but it seemed like I was unknowingly against my will backdoored into a date with my boss’s friend by his wife. Fun times turning down those advances while trying to avoid awkwardness at work.

And for the record, I was closer in age to her kids than to her. 🤣 She looked very good for her age, but she also looked and acted 100% like a Real Housewife. Not exactly my type.

My Trans Girlfriend Doesn't Make Me Gay - Trans Ally Reaction - Pristine Propaganda by usehername in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wait a second. Either this is getting something confused or I am. While I believe Blanchard (or someone else) has theorized that GAMP (attraction to feminized males) is a fetish that sits on top of heterosexuality, I thought “pseudobisexuality” is the term he used for AGP men who have sex with men not out of attraction but to affirm their “womanhood” and to be be desired “as a woman.” Also, I would posit because they think it’s degrading to be fucked by a man. I thought this was Blanchard’s way of explaining that AGPs are heterosexual even when they claim to be bisexual.

I have heard not “pseudobisexuality” refer to attraction to feminized males and women though. However more importantly, if someone is attracted to both women and feminized men, aren’t they still actually bisexual? They’re attracted to both sexes. Generally men who are attracted to trans women are very attracted to their penises. That’s kind of the point for them. I remember that I saw some stories from them on r/bisexual asking if they were bisexual or just sharing stories about their experiences. And they would talk about like just being attracted to penises and/or wanting to perform certain sex acts with penises but they had no attraction to the rest of a man and didn’t want a relationship with a man, and said they were otherwise attracted to women.

So maybe it depends on what that “attraction” looks like and what is going through their minds? Are they getting off to degradation/humiliation such that they actually are aroused by the idea of stoking their own sexual repulsion to the male sex? Is it purely sexual? Can they feel romantic attraction to such a person? Or do they only have attraction to them as some kind of porn fantasy/sex object? Are they compartmentalizing that person’s body parts? Is this why they call us genital fetishists? It is always projection, isn’t it?

Unless the person is attracted to stoking their own sexual repulsion to men, it does seem like it’s still bisexuality, albeit a very crude version and not one that I’m aware has a female equivalent. And not people I would want representing LGB/the bisexual community (sorry Bis). I would be interested to hear more Bis opine on this.

TRA just witnessed blatant transphobia in /r/AGB. No really. by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In what other context is it permissible to casually blame someone’s suicide on others? It’s generally accepted that it’s inappropriate to threaten suicide to someone you are/were in a relationship with or related to. So why is it OK to hold a group of people accountable for the suicide of someone they’ve never met and never interacted with or threaten them with the prospect that some other unknown person they have no duty of care to whatsoever will commit suicide? Much less do this to an entire demographic of people!

But also . . . where else does this come up? We don’t tell people that any other minority or demographic “will kill themselves if you/don’t do X.” I don’t really hear gay people talked about in this way either, but maybe the woke do now? It’s just such a serious thing to be so casual about. The fact that it’s tolerated and promoted at the highest levels is crazy.

Even worse, suicide is contagious. Suicide is an idea that when discussed inappropriately can be put in someone’s head and turned into an action. So arguably they’re causing more suicides by promoting the narrative that “Trans people will kill themselves if you do/don’t do X.” You’re giving them a script. This is something we need to call out more. Be firm and unequivocal. Give people the tools to realize this is a way in which trans gets special treatment no other demographic gets, and let them think about why that is in trying to justify it.

What does “woke” or “wokeness” mean to you and how would you explain that to an intelligent woke gay friend who you were trying to convince it poses a problem for the gay community? by yousaythosethings in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I haven’t talked to her in over 5 years and most days I forget I even have a mother. Forgetting about her existence is the biggest blessing and nothing has brought more peace to my life. I’m not one to advocate that everyone should jump right into cutting their parents out of their lives but mine was a very easy decision that was probably the most self-loving thing I’ve ever done. 😁

What does “woke” or “wokeness” mean to you and how would you explain that to an intelligent woke gay friend who you were trying to convince it poses a problem for the gay community? by yousaythosethings in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you! I’m loving all these different perspectives that ring so true, including yours. This goes hand in hand with the comment about wokeness being about a refusal to accept, contend with, or even try to understand human nature. That they are trying to socialize out our self-protective biological instincts. My mom has NPD so I have no illusions about all women being innocent and all men guilty.

Wokism has Cluster B personality disorders woven all through it. It platforms those with those disorders or who have traits of these disorders. They appear confident and sure of themselves while they spout utter nonsense. Like listen to Ibrahim Kendi talk for 30 seconds and he’s way off-base from his initial premise. And you hear these mantras like “abolish the police” and “transwomen are women” and many will basically excuse it as “people don’t actually mean what they say. That’s not meant to be taken literally.” And they go along with it because when someone says X, they’ve been trained by these charlatans to mentally superimpose Y and act like it’s ridiculous for anyone to think they mean X when they say X.

But these charlatans get platformed and develop followings because the majority of the woke are being socialized to ignore warning signs and to believe that people are who they say they are. Those lost, trusting souls who just wanna do good and be seen as good are a buffet for personality-disordered bullshit artists.

My Trans Girlfriend Doesn't Make Me Gay - Trans Ally Reaction - Pristine Propaganda by usehername in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is my impression as well. I don’t know how conscious the lying is or if they sip their own Kool-Aid but in both circumstances even guy is incentivized to buy into the lie and feed the other’s delusion/desire for validation, hence the prevalence of this “totes straight” propaganda.

My Trans Girlfriend Doesn't Make Me Gay - Trans Ally Reaction - Pristine Propaganda by usehername in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As evidenced by my other post on the notable absence of women trying to convince themselves and others that they’re def not gay for dating a trans man and the lack of media propaganda and Reddit echo chambers like r/sex enforcing that message too, I have to say . . . . This does just feel sad. No one’s buying it. If they did, we wouldn’t be hearing this message.

The other thing that bothers me is that these types of stories (not so much this one) are often presented as “Oh I didn’t know she was a he but I’m such a great person and love her anyway” when the way the stories play out, it does seem to be the case that these men (GAMPs) seek out trans women specifically. As someone on here said, the TW wants to be seen as just a chick but the GAMP views the TW as a chick with a dick specifically.

I have also heard a number of stealthiness stories with last second pre-sex reveals that have a disturbing pattern of the men walking away having an existential crisis and feeling profoundly uncomfortable and violated (as they were on an individual basis but likely also faced some societal pressure in going forward with it) while the TW is dismissive, devoid of empathy, and plays the victim. They are often so casual about it too.

Unidentified Australian gender clinic under review; teenagers require court approval to transition - Judges to oversee transgender teen treatment (The Australian) by reluctant_commenter in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have similar thoughts. This is not my area of law, but gender identity nonsense is definitely nesting within my area of law. I have to say though that I laugh when someone with pronouns in their signature still drafts documents saying things like “he or she” that makes it clear they are not true believers.

I’ve only had one incident where some woke recent college grad prepared me an analysis of meal break violations and she used “they” pronouns for everyone regardless of whether they were named Maria or Thomas. I fixed that shit lol.

Btw, are you talking about a circumstance where the government is being sued or is bringing the cases themselves?

Unidentified Australian gender clinic under review; teenagers require court approval to transition - Judges to oversee transgender teen treatment (The Australian) by reluctant_commenter in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The unidentified gender clinic appears to be the first in Australia to take the precaution of shifting responsibility from doctors back to judges when it comes to deciding if a minor is mature enough to give informed consent to treatment under the common law Gillick competency rule.

I’d have to go back to the Bell opinion but isn’t the relevant issue that clinicians who had ample opportunity to gather evidence could not provide sufficient evidence that children under 16 were capable of giving informed consent to pharmaceutical gender transition?

It seems that in all practicality, it’s much less about letting a judge decide if a child is capable of giving consent to medical transition but putting a cog in the wheel of the one-way gender train and involving the scrutiny of a hopefully more independent and less personally interested third party. So a judge isn’t going to have unique insights in assessing competence but including a judge in the process does put unscrupulous and more activist type practitioners on notice that they are being watched and they better be cautious, discerning, and meticulous, and not recklessly push kids to medical transition while ignoring obvious red flags in the children’s profile. Because that’s what was actually happening. They were ignoring signs of autism, sexual abuse, sexual orientation distress, etc.

I see this is as very different from the abortion comparison, which is basically the opposite. A minor who wants an abortion but is denied one will have her life more fundamentally and irreversibly changed by being denied the abortion. And then you have to address the tension of holding the position that a minor may not be competent enough to get an abortion but is competent enough to have a child. The abortion comparison is just disingenuous scare tactics as far as I’m concerned.

Conservative media The Daily Wire runs article about elementary school children being given access to sexually complicit content at school -- and adds a rainbow flag as its article image by reluctant_commenter in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What data best supports that LGB is a minority in the +++ “community”? I know it feels like we are and I’m not aware of a consistent enough definition of how the wider “community” is defined to get full aggregate numbers. I also don’t know how we can even accurately assess this with the popularization of effectively meaningless identifications like queer and pansexual replacing LGB in many cases but also often S.

This is why I think data needs to be gathered not based on identity or exclusively based on identity, but the underlying facts: What’s your sex? What sex(es)are you attracted to? Do you have an intersex condition? What is it? Do you have a gender identity different from your sex? What is it? If people want to claim to have an orientation that factors in gender identity, they can add that in, but on top of orientation based on sex. Same with non-binary. Then we can also map out patterns of differences in identification and reality.

I would also like to see more bisexual infrastructure and organizations. There is so much to be studied with bisexuality since it really is such a wide spectrum of experience. Maybe it’s not all coming from the same place? I don’t even know that all of homosexuality is coming from the same place and there are differences among us that can be parsed out including in how we experience our lack of attraction to the opposite sex. Idk how we get any mmore much-needed research into sexual orientation or female sexuality without being regimented about this data collection and insulating it from the pressures of political forces..

And because I’m rambling, there are a lot of questions I now have surrounding testosterone and other hormones and what possible influence they have on sexual orientation and under what circumstances. Like what the heck is going on with so many FtMs saying their sexual orientation seems to have changed after taking testosterone? I’ve now heard it both ways: FtMs previously only attracted to males now attracted to seemingly only attracted to females (for ex: Aaron Terrell) and previous lesbian-identifying FtMs now attracted to males (countless people; also a plot on the original L Word). I want to know what’s going on and not with some queer theory post-modernist explanation.

At the same time I do worry about the implications on LGB people in hostile places like Iran, not that they’re not already trying to trans the gay away.

Where are the straight-identifying women in relationships with trans men/trans-identifying females? by yousaythosethings in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings[S] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yea these days it seems like most are no Buck Angel in terms of stature or even in terms of being “butch” at all. More often they seem tiny and frail even for women like Chase Strangio, Alexander Chen, and Andrew Cray.

Those photos of Chase with Laverne Cox and Andrew with Sarah McBride are pretty revelatory.

Book Labeled Violence for Questioning Trans Ideology. A book publishing association was canceled by the Left for accidentally promoting two books. The organization gave a groveling apology, which of course, was not enough. by Chipit in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He has very weak rhetorical style so I tend to avoid his videos because even when I agree with the conclusion, his arguments are so easy to refute.

I think it is possible that there are multiple factors that cause someone to be gay, and that maybe for some people it’s not set in stone from birth. That being said, I believe it is at least set early in life before we are aware of it. And it still does not follow that it’s a choice or a temptation. For the people who are insistent that it is, I do wonder what their own “temptations” are. He’s just viewing homosexuality as a behavior as do the places that criminalize the trappings of homosexuality. To him we are not a people but more like addicts.

I don’t have competing desires. If I weren’t attracted to women, I wouldn’t be attracted to anyone. If I didn’t see heterosexual couples everywhere it would not occur to me that partnering with a man is something I should have ever considered trying in my life.

And lol he considers race some sort of inherent God-given category when there’s not even some universal agreement about what race people are, much less what that should mean? How in the world does that make sense? What race does he consider Turks? Poles? Spanish-speaking third generation South American immigrants of entirely European descent? Blond Bosnian Muslims?

A reminder that the long awaited book "Trans" by Helen Joyce is released today. by millicentfawcett in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

IMO this is the book I’ve most anticipated because Helen Joyce most closely speaks to my perspective and primary concerns with gender ideology. She is not an ideologue of any kind, not dogmatic in the least, she is liberal not conservative, and she immediately seized upon the gay conversion therapy aspect of transgender ideology and saw that as her call to action.

She also has a mainstream publisher not Prager and can’t be smeared by associating her with the Heritage Foundation or anything like that. I still have to find the time to dive into this book since there’s no audiobook version but I think it will be worth it.

TERF followed me from here (TERF= An actual Lesbian) by theytookourjerbs in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Then ask them if all immigrants are similarly fungible.

I don't think you can have a "community" based both on sex-based attraction and gender identity by JulienMayfair in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

like a bar I know that has now rebranded as a karaoke bar in recent years.

Lipstick Lounge?

r/actuallesbians - To my trans lesbian sisters „Full blown dyke“ and „cis lesbian“ would love to be with „pre HRT, non op“ trans woman. Collective headpatting, uwuing and homophobia ensues in the comments. by howdidthishappen in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sounds like anyone but a lesbian. Sounds more like someone role-playing on the Internet and not someone who has ever engaged in female homosexuality.

A reminder that the long awaited book "Trans" by Helen Joyce is released today. by millicentfawcett in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was able to order the Kindle version for immediate delivery, so that is at least an option for Americans.

A reminder that the long awaited book "Trans" by Helen Joyce is released today. by millicentfawcett in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When I look the book up on Amazon, it says it’s not available until Sept 7. Is this because I’m in America? I also don’t see any option for it on audible, which is not the best format for dense text, but the easiest for me because I can listen while I take care of mindless, mundane things.

I note that the publisher is Simon & Schuster, which is a major mainstream publishing house. A small victory, but an important one.

What does “woke” or “wokeness” mean to you and how would you explain that to an intelligent woke gay friend who you were trying to convince it poses a problem for the gay community? by yousaythosethings in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I appreciate this response. You captured in words a lot of what I’ve been thinking.

Especially this

Wokeness has declared war on our natural limitations.

And this

Going on borderline religious crusades to remove all of our judging functions

I’ve been absolutely feeling like there is the absolute denialism about the basics of humanity going on. And complete disregard for more proximate perils. Everything is violence except actual violence. Everything is threatening and dangerous except that which is actually, obviously, and indisputably threatening and dangerous. We pretend we do not see people’s sex and that it doesn’t matter. We pretend that we don’t just use pronouns based off people’s discernible sex. When no one in the general public out and about has ever asked for my pronouns or called me anything but “she” as I’m obviously female. We pretend that a victim of a sex crime “misgendering” her attacker commits an equal crime by doing so.

We pretend children have more wisdom about the basic realities of the world than adults. We pretend children who believe that Santa visits all kids in the world in one night and that boys who put on dresses become girls are capable of deciding that they should skip puberty and have their healthy sex organs cut off (and if children know for sure, are never wrong, and should always be affirmed, what is the woke argument against performing these surgeries even earlier when the children are tiny and their classmates don’t know them as someone else?). We pretend that in a women’s prison obviously women face no threat from obvious men but in a men’s prison, a less obvious woman faces and a less obvious man face an intolerable threat from men.

You can only persist in this thinking if you isolate yourself from hearing the thoughts of anyone who doesn’t 100% agree with you. You are told to outsource your thinking, which is funny that I’m doing that here but only because I wanted to explore the idea of whether there are unified conceptions of wokeness since I realized it’s a lot of different things together and different aspects of it are generally recognizable by everyone who criticizes wokeness but different aspects are most important to different people. Liberals and conservatives who criticize wokeness focus on different things with some overlap.

I also want to add that in line with what you said, I get the impression that they think they’re creating a utopia that everyone wants, but the way they go about it is the antithesis of what they say they want. They are creating what looks more like hell to most people.

The "lesbian" dream - uhhh… by Rag3 in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 21 insightful - 7 fun21 insightful - 6 fun22 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

They’re all trans-identifying males. All of them. That’s how you know they’ve literally made up some bizarre shadow culture they call lesbianism that has zero in common with the lives and interests of women who date other women.

Click on their profiles and their profiles are exactly what you’d expect. Are there even any actual women left on r/AL regardless of sexual orientation or is phase 3 of the takeover finally complete?

I don't think you can have a "community" based both on sex-based attraction and gender identity by JulienMayfair in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Last I checked with my non-binary she/they lesbian TRA friend on this her own identity rested on biological sex being distinct from gender identity and meaningful because without it she was neither female nor gay. She was totally unaware of or at least in denial about the sex denialism aspect of trans activism. I feel like when she finally peaks, that has to be part of why. Because right now she gets to have it all: gay, female caring about and identifying with women’s issues and sexism, and somehow also non-binary. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I don't think you can have a "community" based both on sex-based attraction and gender identity by JulienMayfair in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was in a lesbian bar recently (remember those?!) and there was a bachelorette party for a straight girl in there too (and yes she said she was straight, not a bisexual girl marrying a man). While that group didn’t act particularly obnoxious to my knowledge and so it could have been a lot worse, I did think about how ignorant she and her friends must have been about how few lesbian bars and spaces of any kind are left.

I really don’t think straight people have any idea of how dire things are for lesbians. Tbh they never hear about us anymore. When I was closeted I was not coming across out lesbians or bisexual women who were dating women. Gay really did seem to be presented a mainly male thing, and I think that kept me in a fog.

Should have stopped at "I don't know a single lesbian IRL" by MilkTea in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 33 insightful - 11 fun33 insightful - 10 fun34 insightful - 11 fun -  (0 children)

Who needs same-sex marriage when we have . . . ourselves?

Again, they think homosexuality is a fetish and operates like a paraphilia because they are fetishists and project that onto us. I think some of them do think there’s a community of experience there and it’s annoying and infuriating, but also sad. They must think we’re lying about the nature of homosexuality and concealing it from the general public.

In reality, if it weren’t for the fact that I’ve lived through distinct phases of the gay rights movement, I would never find anything notable about my same sex attraction. I have crushes, romantic and sexual encounters, and relationships that are mostly in line with those of heterosexual couples. The only differences in experience are based in the biological realities associated with us both being of the female sex and dealing with concerns that only come up because of societal stigma. I do from time to time think, “I couldn’t be doing this mundane thing right now in a different point in history or different place in the world right now” and “I’m that thing those people warned people about” and it feels like such a weird thing for anyone else to get upset about.

B in LG spaces dilemma by lazy-summer-god in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This thread is a hot mess and I don’t even have time to make it through the entire thing to discover the full scope of just how much. I’m sorry to the bisexuals who are being lumped in with bad actors and are being made to answer for the actions of said bad actors. I like that this space is for LGB not just LG. While I have witnessed some disrespect in here exhibited toward homosexuality recently, its been by a recent vocal tiny minority and I have not seen anything like that from the vast majority of bisexual contributors, so many of whom have contributed valuable content and perspectives that help me form my own perspectives. Thank you to all of you. ❤️

My own idea of the best way to respect both bisexuality and homosexuality in the same forum is to have in the forum rules the basic definitions of those sexual orientations. That one who has experienced sexual attraction to both sexes at any point is bisexual and that homosexuality is exclusive same sex attraction. And that all of this is regardless of gender identity. And that to participate in the forum, you must agree to those definitions. To work together we have to work from common definitions and understandings.

Reddit is a lost cause because it has gone full TRA and in support of identities without any factual basis. It’s a toxic waste dump and we can analyze until the end of time all the many reasons that that occurred. For this reason a place like r/AGB can’t implement this policy now but a new r/AGB elsewhere could do so.

r/lgballt:"Clowngender is heckin cute and valid uwu" they are beyond parody at this point by FineIWillDoItMyself in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They are constantly testing the limits of what they can get away with and what people will just thoughtlessly go along with, or at least not dare openly question. It’s grooming behavior.

A ridiculously complicated lesbian relationship with bonus begging post by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Yea basically. Head size is also how you tell male lions from female lions. Males don’t get the mane until around age 10. Female lions have heads much smaller in proportion to their bodies than male lions. And the difference is very obvious when they’re standing next to each other.

And somehow this nugget of wisdom is my only contribution to this forum this week. 🤣

"Lesbian bottom" happy for first time with transbian by Elvira95 in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was in line getting late night munchies with my girlfriend recently, and the girl in front of us asked us if we were a couple and said she had a girlfriend too. We chatted with her for a bit. She was about a decade younger and it turns out she was hoping to get into the same career as us.

At one point I walked up to the counter to get our food and apparently she said to my girlfriend about me while I was gone for all of 30 seconds, “she’s the top, isn’t she?”

I have no idea what she even meant. I thought this was supposed to be sexual terminology, if anything. We did not talk about sex at all. Anyway I wasn’t there to hear it so I don’t know exactly how she said it but it struck me as such a weird thing to say. I was literally giving her career advice. She seemed nice enough otherwise and was academically very credentialed. I looked her up later and found out she has a pretty extensive social media presence and a following so I’m not surprised that the online lingo seeped in.

YouTube censorship is just getting ridiculous by KingDickThe2nd in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It means they can speak on our behalf and call us the oppressors for not recognizing them as having any semblance of a community with them.

Stolen from s/bisexuals- IKEA's ugly couch contest 🏳️‍🌈 by PatsyStone in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 20 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

“Being non-binary means I don’t have to be masculine, I don’t have to be feminine. I can be whatever I want to be.” Why do you have to be non-binary for that to be true? Do they hear themselves? Do these non-binary fulcks go around treating men and women like 1950’s stereotypes to make it clear that they’re something different?

Censorship Thursday - share your sub bans here! by NutterButterFlutter in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Unfortunately if done intelligently it’s a lot more effective than a banning. That’s how you get hollowed out husks like r/AL, r/LGBT, and r/ainbow. All are shadows of their former selves, but anyone who is inclined to question any of it or know better has long since been banned or scared away. They now only exist to make the rest of Reddit think gay people still have spaces on Reddit. If they tried banning r/AGB, however, that is more likely to cause a stir that reaches beyond the rainbow curtain.

Yes, kink belongs at Pride. And I want my kids to see it. - The Washington Post by usehername in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s actually literally this. They think homosexuality and bisexuality are kinks and we’re all fetishists in this together. Winkwink.

Straight bloke in frock who hearts Iran can’t believe LGB people would say this by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They misframed it. The point is that gay rights was never about changing other people’s rights or destroying institutions, but rather to participate in existing institutions in our consensual relationships with each other. So there was no demand for a legal change as to prejudice other people.

Jo Bartosch on why intersex people are fed up with their medical conditions being repurposed as a transgender identity by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the most important part is what’s going on in the parents’ head and they’re suspecting their toddlers/children will be gay based on toy and clothing preferences, and many are actively seeking to prevent that through transition. I agree as a general matter with not projecting sexual orientation of any kind on kids, but it can’t be denied that there are certain patterns that are much more common among kids who will grow up to be gay and it’s these patterns that people are picking up on and simultaneously seeing as signs their kid will be gay and a sign their child is supposed to be the opposite sex.

For Jazz, hasn’t Jazz made it pretty clear he likes boys? Or at least dates them? Or are we going by the fact that his sexuality itself seems to have been neutered?

How many of you have genuinely experienced actual, extreme gender dysphoria? And please dont exaggerate but i mean actual, almost borderline creepy, harmful levels of what we now call gender dysphoria? Not the "im a tomboy" but "there's something deeply wrong with me" until you got over it. by schomee in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Luckily the first transgender person I ever met (when I was around 18) was an FtM who just looked and acted like a butch lesbian, so transitioning struck me as incredibly stupid and delusional. If I had met a passing FtM, that may have doomed me. And if I had met a passing, handsome transman like Laith Ashley, I don't see any way I wouldn't be on hormones now.

This is true for me too and I think it’s been formative in my understanding of trans-identifying people. The first 3 such people I met in life were obviously mentally ill or autistic. None of them passed. I could never think of any of them as their target sex. The very first was also an FtM who was a non-feminine lesbian but who in no way struck me as male. She was also the first lesbian I had met, which if I’m honest, probably also contributed to me being unable to recognize my own homosexuality. Because I definitely saw her as a lesbian. She had a girlfriend, was from a homophobic culture, and had a laundry list of mental health disorders, so this seemed par for the course.

Two of the three “came out” as trans a decade and a half ago. One “came out” 8 years ago. So the former were pre-social contagion and the other fell into some online anime/trans community and has made that his main hobby/entire life. He is also non-hormone/non-op.

Rest assured that we are attracted to men in a GAY way by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Can you imagine AGP flooding the internet and lesbian spaces and creating a culture that "teaches" lesbians how it feels like to be attracted to women?

This is “lesbian Reddit” in a nutshell. They respond to questions asked by unassuming young lesbian, bisexual, and questioning women all the time without disclosing the fact that they’re male. No one calls them out for it anymore because anyone who is inclined to is already banned or is banned within nanoseconds.

Remember, "lesbian" is just a porn category... - Coca-Cola criticised for banning the word ‘lesbian’ on customisable Pride bottles by reluctant_commenter in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Has any self-proclaimed “LGBTQ” or “LGBT” org ever made an issue out of the pornification and misappropriation of the word “lesbian?” Or how the word gets auto-treated as a porn reference by the major players in Big Tech such as YouTube and its owner Google? Why is it that when I search for “lesbian” and ”[insert mundane search terms that a lesbian might search for],” the results are always porn on Google? Any lesbian who is merely looking for practical information on sex and safe sex will just get porn and at best guides promoted by Google search results that talk about penises in “lesbian sex.”

We could write a laundry list of the practical info that has to deal with homosexual female sex that is either missing entirely despite the vast expanse of the Internet or hidden behind porn and the agendas of fetishistic men.

Why are we supposed to be OK with this? Why are most lesbian and bisexual women silent about this when the chances any of us hasn’t noticed is slim. Whenever I raise this to other gay women, there appears to be a lightbulb that goes off in their head. LGBT(Q) orgs care not the fuck at all and give us crumbs.

Rest assured that we are attracted to men in a GAY way by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do they also love to eat meat in a vegan way? Do they accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior in a Muslim way? Are they socialists in a capitalist way? LOL probably yes on the last one.

But in all seriousness this mindset really harmed me and kept me from accepting my homosexuality. I didn’t think I was attracted to women in a gay way, so how could I be gay? Surely it didn’t make me gay.

Expect it did. Because I am female and am solely attracted to other women. I thought surely if I was gay there would be some independent internal feeling associated with that. Except there isn’t. It’s the sole fact that I’m female and everyone I’m attracted to is female that makes me gay. There’s nothing about the way that I experience that attraction that makes it gay. Put a different way, it’s the confluence of 4 facts:

(1) I’m female as a factual matter, not a matter of identity.

(2) I’m attracted to other females.

(3) I’ve never been attracted to any males.

(4) This pattern has always been true for me.

How I feel about any of the above makes no difference. How I identify makes no difference. And sexual attraction is scientifically discernible. It’s a reaction of your body and mind. Not some unfalsifiable, imperceptible, esoteric concept or disembodied feeling. It’s literally based in the body.

Please just delete us altogether from this insulting abomination by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What do any of those colors/post-hoc additions have anything to do with fighting for the right to love who you love? Only LGB has anything to do with that. The others have nothing to do with that. That’s our point.

Stonewall equality list ‘bullies bosses and silences dissent’ by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes to be fair, it’s client demand that creates this and the client’s desire for this is the reason I couldn’t openly talk to the partner and be like “You know this is B.S., right?” Plus he’s an Asian man who seems personally invested in the diversity industry.
Also, diversity departments are overwhelmingly made up of women, and especially women who are something other than white. So the optics of eliminating that in this political climate are bad. Though it would be a better sign of progress to naturally have more individuals of those backgrounds across the general employee population. But you can see how it becomes kind of a built-in career and self-perpetuates.

Even r/dinosaurs isn't safe from virtue signalling by TumbleweedFireflies in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why does Reddit seemingly have such a high self-identifying asexual population? There are people I know IRL who I suspect are but they don’t openly label themselves as such and aren’t part of any such real world community as far as I can tell.

Stonewall equality list ‘bullies bosses and silences dissent’ by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The U.S. equivalent is the HRC’S Corporate Equality Index, which is essentially the same thing. The woke credential industry is huge right now. And in my industry Mansfield Rule Certification is all the rage now. I had to do some legit work researching some of this stuff for a client to answer what the standards were for determining compliance for certification purposes and even I was shocked at how patently substance-less it is and how standards are getting even more diluted. It’s literally just a bunch of buzzwords and marketing that gives firms/companies the opportunity to parrot that language and put it on their website, and allows them to pretend they’re being groundbreaking and impressive. And I couldn’t even openly shit on it in conveying to the client that there are essentially no standards or metrics.

Even worse it creates employment for charlatans. Diversity departments are a huge racket right now. They’re the ones managing these credentials and are in the best position to tell how BS they are, but their employment depends on their existence. It’s a sick system.

Jo Bartosch on why intersex people are fed up with their medical conditions being repurposed as a transgender identity by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think this would have been more persuasive if it was written by someone with an intersex condition. Otherwise it’s one radfem reporting on the opinions of two people with intersex conditions that the article admits contradicts the position of an association for one of those conditions. See more below on that.

Also, more time should be taken to explain what the range of intersex conditions are. This wasn’t written for an audience that is new to this. It’s such a wide range of circumstances, that it really should be made clear that one cannot necessarily speak to the experience of another.

Three companion pieces that should be written, and again, would be much more persuasive if written by someone with an actual intersex condition are: (1) in depth look at historical organizing/infrastructure with people for different intersex conditions to reveal the point at which “intersex” got hijacked and forced into the rainbow mafia. (2) More in depth overview of the intersex poser hijackings. This is absolutely the case with Reddit. R/intersex is all trans people now. We need to expose how and why that happened. (3) a look at intersex and it’s history and profile within LGBTQ+ plus. How much funding goes to the I? How much programming goes to the I? What is the extent of the programming, funding, and policies that isn’t just primarily about the T. For example it seems the only policy LGBTQ+ orgs want for intersex is to allow “intersex” to be listed as a sex on identification documents. How does that compare to what different intersex/DSD groups have been asking for at different points in time. What is the state of the law/landscape on this? Is it even getting tracked by LGBTQ+ orgs? What are the demographics of who is both intersex and considers themselves a part of LGBTQ? Is there any such intersex person who is not already covered by another letter? Are the orgs even tracking this?

I don’t want to be like the TRAs. I don’t want to tell the stories of those with DSDs for them and fit it into an agenda. They need to be enabled to speak for themselves.

Finally, radfems like TRAs have a habit of having one person with a DSD speaking for all others. I think like us in the alphabet soup, people with one condition may tend toward wildly different positions on this from others.

I think we do need to hear the perspective of biological males with XY chromosomes who have complete androgen insensitivity. Like Hanne Gaby Odiele. Or several others on YouTube. They also seem to identify as women (though I guess Hanne has at times says she doesn’t feel like a man or a woman but still goes by “she”). From my experience they also seem to be male-attracted, which would make them technically homosexual but most don’t identify as such because they don’t identify as men.

Also the fact that they are males who cannot process testosterone and they tend to be male-attracted gives credence to homosexuality being based in prenatal testosterone exposure.

Just some thoughts. I’m not an expert. But I also don’t want to be dogmatic or a hypocrite.

Rather than cave to the demands of TQ+, Philly Pride Presents disbands their organization by NutterButterFlutter in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is also very true and well-put and it totally summarizes the two groups I’ve seen at the helm of this.

The “non-privileged” people who get platformed are the swindlers with little else to offer who use the opportunity to scam people, and very poorly represent their communities.

Rather than cave to the demands of TQ+, Philly Pride Presents disbands their organization by NutterButterFlutter in LGBDropTheT

[–]yousaythosethings 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would like to see that for sure although I will say the kind of hostile takeover here in this story is of a very specific nature and following a pattern happening in a lot of places in the the U.S. right now.

Here it’s largely led by black queer/non-binary types (often aligned with or invoking so-called trans women of color, aka their fellow gay black men) and using race and adjacent issues to push out long-standing, older, white community leaders from the institutions they have led and built. So the hostile takeovers look very different here than in the UK where race does not appear to be a driving issue.
So it’s the live-action marrying of BLM and TWAW by power-seeking opportunists who never seem to have a vision for what they want to create, just what they seek to destroy or become theirs. I can get behind some aspects of some of their messages but I do not support the overall picture, and certainly not the means.

They are enabled by the wealthy white non-binary queer types including LGBs who don’t seem to realize they are the exact people being complained about. I’ve definitely noticed the pattern that the white “queers” who obsessively support this are furthest from the working class and the struggles being raised. They project their guilt and ignorance on others and contribute to their being no dialogue, only demands.

I see people starting to notice and who are whispering about needing to build new institutions once the hijacked orgs fail to carry out their original purpose but a lot of people are still in hiding and “we can’t say this out loud mode.” The seeds are being planted though. People are slowly looking at each other to see their reactions and testing the waters.