all 31 comments

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (23 children)

Sooooo ... I've considered myself persona non grata here since the privating and my departure.

But I think in light of recent developments, I should speak up also. I'm not willing to just slink away and subjugate you and me and all of us. I still believe in what we are doing, even if I won't be a mod anymore or actively participating.

I think our host is looking for a reason to get rid of us now that we have proven to be not-Drama and more work than expected. WPD and Cringetopia also proved to be a lot of work for them, but especially WPD since they have a brand/image they want to maintain. Cringetopia pulled the plug on themselves, but apparently WPD got taken over unwillingly.

I paid for our site resources until January 2023, and our domains are paid for until June 2023. I have no problem paying for our site until June 2023, as a nice and even boundary. I have been holding off giving any extra money until we see our site actualized. I know better than to tip a vendor for their services before they deliver. I can afford to throw away setup fees and take an L, but I'm not giving another dime until we get what we've been promised.

It's unprofessional to offer services, and then come back weeks later and try to strong-arm and gaslight customers into believing they were wrong for asking/accepting. True colors have been shown. It's not LGBDTT's fault for requesting, it's theirs for over-promising and not delivering. I don't care what the reasons are.

I've been willing to help every step of the way, and have been patient and understanding until we were shunned and silenced.

The dev I have been working with regularly is awesome (Snakes), but he got tasked with everything while his "bosses" abandoned him. He is also not a project manager and shouldn't have been put in that position in the first place. He promised things he and they couldn't guarantee, and I suspect he didn't even realize it. If Aev and Carp were in charge then they should have been there from the start and stated what can and cannot be done. That way NONE OF US would be sitting here with our thumbs up our asses with our main dev so overloaded that he has to ignore everyone.

I think we should still utilize the site as-is, but prepare to abandon ship and be on our own after the hosting expires. I don't know how to guarantee we can get the domains back, and I know creating a site on our own will take a lot of work and expertise. I don't know how it will happen or work. But I think we have nearly a year to figure it out.

I'm in if you are.

EDIT, now that I am catching up after writing this comment:

We have now been given what we were promised for launch to you all (flairs and notifications of bad words). So we do have the bare minimum to go public and can open up the site to you and anyone else. I don't believe anything else will happen after this.

[–]RippoffOfLoveSStraight | Overuses quotation marks 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

The domains aren't in our possession? That is not ideal.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

Yeah ... I am definitely regretting putting my trust in them now and letting them set everything up.

Are we hosed? Do we have any recourse other than buying a different domain?

This is outside my skill and knowledge set.

It's probably a fools hope, but maybe we wait and hope they let the domains expire and don't repurchase after the year, so we can swoop in and grab them? But as we grow, they wouldn't want to give that up, so ...

Yeah, I fucked this up didn't I :( :( :(

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Grab a .net or .org and arrange for one of those to point to the host instead so users don't get used to the unsecure .com's? They are still available. Not quite as sweet as a .com, but many sites(like this one) use those without issues. I mean, at the same time it couldn't hurt to attempt to get the others under your control; And possibly doing a migration(mostly just getting the site's userbase to change their habits/bookmarks) to those in the future if successful.

I mean, they might not allow another domain used for some arbitrary reason, but then it'll be crystal clear they are trying to throw a monkey wrench into the thing.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I can buy other domains, but how do I do that without revealing who I am? Don't I have to share my real information when I purchase and register, which then becomes public knowledge through who-is lookups and all?

When you say grab another site and point it to the host, I understand the words you're saying and what they mean, but I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to create or run a server. I don't know what it means to work with Cloudflare or other networks. I don't know how files get put onto a machine (or cloud), or how to set up a database. But if you give me some Python or Javascript, or a language I don't know but can learn, I will dig into that all day every day.

We're talking about different sides of the tech world. And I don't *get* that particular side of it, which is why we went with someone who did and *seemed* to be established until the past month showed otherwise.

I could have rewritten the site myself if they would stop whining and just pointed me towards a file or path to review and get into. It would take forever, but I could and I would. But once we get into machines/hardware or virtual reality/software of the internet, it's beyond me.

I really mean it when I say this is outside my skill. I'm in tech due to personal interest, but I'm not an IT person by trade or even a professional dev. I'm a self-taught code monkey.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can buy other domains, but how do I do that without revealing who I am? Don't I have to share my real information when I purchase and register, which then becomes public knowledge through who-is lookups and all?

I know there's a way to get Whois protection, but I'm not sure how difficult it is. (edit: RipoffOfLove addressed this issue here) I included in my other comment-- I think that this, actually, is the biggest barrier to us hosting our own site. I know you're concerned about the technical expertise aspect but I mean, hey, learning on the internet is cheap. (And I'm down to do it, anyway!)

I really mean it when I say this is outside my skill. I'm in tech due to personal interest, but I'm not an IT person by trade or even a professional dev. I'm a self-taught code monkey.

I hear you. You've done a ton already; I appreciate it. This isn't really my area either, to be honest, but I'm not convinced yet that we need a professional in order to launch a website.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry for the delay.

I can buy other domains, but how do I do that without revealing who I am? Don't I have to share my real information when I purchase and register, which then becomes public knowledge through who-is lookups and all?

There is a privacy service registrars offer. There has to be contact information (email, address etc) but they can act as the third party and provide proxies to keep the customer's real info from being visible. Yes, the third party(the domain registrar) will still have all the contact info the customer has to provide. And I suppose they can be more or less susceptible to be strong-armed into revealing it to other parties, depending on the company. But I suppose the more third party(middle men) layers you can manage to put between yourself and public visibility(if that is at all possible), the more difficult it will be to get to your info.

But if you give me some Python or Javascript, or a language I don't know but can learn, I will dig into that all day every day.

Oh yeah, the latter is the one I know a wee bit of. True, that the internet space is a different beast altogether and I understand how it can be confusing. But pointing to nameservers from domains is relatively easy for people who decide to acquire one. It is done on the Registrar's site and an example of a nameserver would be something like this: ns01.000webhost.com (for 000webhost.com).

Your particular webhost will be the ones giving you the nameserver(s) that can be pointed to; And that will find the servers which provide resources for your website. That has to be arranged with the webhost.

[–]RippoffOfLoveSStraight | Overuses quotation marks 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Hey, don't panic. I think it's more important that the current domain hasn't been established yet. The biggest concern in my opinion is establishing that our space is one domain and then having to move down the road because rDrama owns it. So it's good we're talking about it now.

It can technically be sniped like that after the expiration, but there will likely be others that think to do the same. And they will almost certainly have worse intentions than anyone at rDrama. Also some registrars renew expired domains and park it for the owner in case they decide they wish to renew it after the fact. Just something to be aware of. So yeah, I would NOT count on sniping the domain.

The other two options are either coordinate with someone at rDrama to transfer the domain, or cut your losses and find a new domain. Better to do that sooner rather than later.

On the topic of anonymity- in doing some research, it's possible to remain anonymous but I don't think you can also truly own the domain in that case. There's Njalla for example. May be a worthwhile compromise.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think it's more important that the current domain hasn't been established yet. The biggest concern in my opinion is establishing that our space is one domain and then having to move down the road because rDrama owns it. So it's good we're talking about it now.

That makes sense, that's what I was thinking as well. Other people have tried to pretend to be us before, anyway (e.g. that "LGBDTT" group that was over on Ruqqus).

Also some registrars renew expired domains and park it for the owner in case they decide they wish to renew it after the fact. Just something to be aware of.

I've read about that. Such BS, lol. (Like Namecheap or GoDaddy or those other companies, I'm assuming you mean.)

On the topic of anonymity- in doing some research, it's possible to remain anonymous but I don't think you can also truly own the domain in that case. There's Njalla for example. May be a worthwhile compromise.

I'll do some reading as well. If you have any articles/sources you'd recommend reading or keywords to search, I'd be happy to hear.

[–]RippoffOfLoveSStraight | Overuses quotation marks 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Like Namecheap or GoDaddy or those other companies, I'm assuming you mean.

Bingo! GoDaddy was the exact registrar I was thinking of. It's a nice feature if you legitimately forget to renew a domain, but would be an additional obstacle for us.

If you have any articles/sources you'd recommend

This is the one I was reading that mentions Njalla. Which I was willing to mention by name because it (Njalla) was developed by The Pirate Bay co-founder Peter Sunde.

Before the news dropped that s/lgbdropthet was working with rDrama, the other option I was researching was Tor's .onion or I2P (or both). These solutions (at least on their own) would absolutely suck for visibility, but would be great for anonymity.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

rDrama got our domains through Namecheap, so I guess they're one of the ones that will hold onto it for a while after it expires?

I don't know anything about how Tor/onion or I2P / P2P works.

[–]RippoffOfLoveSStraight | Overuses quotation marks 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

so I guess they're one of the ones that will hold onto it for a while after it expires?

Not sure if namecheap does this domain parking thing. And to be frank, trying to snatch it up when it expires is not a great plan.

I don't know anything about how Tor/onion or I2P / P2P works.

The appeal of Tor/I2P is that the host can be anonymous. That makes it possible to self-host without exposing the server's IP (and therefore general physical location and possibly personal identity of whoever owns the hardware). Domains on these networks aren't registered in the same way that domains on the clear net are registered, either. No need to provide PII for a domain. That's the short of it.

This comes back to the initial conversation on privacy and trust. This all started moving because Saidit was no longer considered trustworthy, after all. Private conversations on here can be read by site admins. But they can probably be read by the hosting provider, which is likely a third party. The plan was to put that trust in rDrama and their hosting provider instead. And with the links being posted by Carp, that trust was perhaps misplaced. So if you ask me, going forward we should eliminate these middlemen at the very least. If we're paying for a hosting platform, the people managing the hosting service should be people inside our community. If we want to limit access even further than that, then we should consider self hosting.

I'm up for exploring hosting platforms since it would be no worse for privacy than rDrama running everything. And as long as expressing the views held here is legal in the countries that we're doing business in, total anonymity isn't super important. Just enough anonymity that the crazies can't identify us.

-edit-

I should also add that I think users' anonymity should be valued over their privacy. If you want private conversations, seek out an E2E encrypted platform outside of saidit. Assume everything posted here is public.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Was just reading up about Njalla, seems pretty good, and there's also that the Pirate Bay creator is the front man for it. Looks like they only accept crypto and PayPal though, and PayPal wouldn't guarantee privacy.

The ladies at Ovarit are using a company called Porkbun who does the same thing ... Porkbun is out of Oregon though, so since they're in the US, I think long-term privacy and protection would be a concern.

[–]RippoffOfLoveSStraight | Overuses quotation marks 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's good to know about Ovarit. Though it looks like all Porkbun provides is standard WhoIs protection (someone correct me if I'm wrong), which only works as long as nobody's trying to sue you. Njalla gets around this by being the "owner" of the domain. Here's what their FAQ page has to say:

We're not actually a domain name registration service, we're a customer to these. We sit in between the domain name registration service and you, acting as a privacy shield. When you purchase a domain name through Njalla, we own it for you. However, the agreement between us grants you full usage rights to the domain. Whenever you want to, you can transfer the ownership to yourself or some other party.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I fucked this up didn't I :( :( :(

Please don't blame yourself for this! All you've done to keep this place going... we owe you so much <3

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I think we should still utilize the site as-is, but prepare to abandon ship and be on our own after the hosting expires. I don't know how to guarantee we can get the domains back, and I know creating a site on our own will take a lot of work and expertise. I don't know how it will happen or work. But I think we have nearly a year to figure it out.

I'm in if you are.

  • I think that setting up our own site-- fully our own site-- would be a good idea, in the long run. Regardless of what we do in the short term. I'm still down to work on this. (see this thread for previous discussion)

  • I agree with Mark's comment-- we may just have to get a new domain name. I think that's OK. Even if rDrama people did decide to keep the current one and try to impersonate us, it's not like they're the first group to try to do so.

  • Correct me if I'm wrong: It sounds like the biggest issue with setting up our own site is that someone is going to have to bite the bullet and register some degree of personal info in order to reserve us a domain name. Is that correct? I'll look into ways to try to mitigate this. Finding technical expertise is a more solvable problem. (I'm down to try it, I'd just be incredibly slow on my own. A couple other people also mentioned they'd be interested, last time we had this discussion.)

  • I'm on the fence about whether or not it makes sense to switch to the new site. This is my biggest concern:

The "derailment" being referenced in the beginning is Carp posting a direct link to our site on rDrama (the second user to do so), and dramatards coming over to play.

I did not realize that Carp himself-- the owner of rDrama-- is the one who tried to bring trolls over there early. Given that he presumably holds the controls for the entire site... this does not seem like someone we should trust in any capacity.

We do deal with trolls here on Saidit. I think we always will to some extent, no matter where we go; we're LGB, several factions hate us for existing. But Carp choosing to do that is kind of some next-level fuckery. It's not like magnora, the owner of Saidit, is sitting there posting screencaps of our sub's posts on s/debatealtright or something; that's the most equivalent action I can think of. edit: Did Carp, or anyone else there, address what happened at all?

I hate to be negative about the new site after all the work that you guys have both put into it. But I'm just trying to be realistic here.


Also, I just want to say... this is an incredibly complicated problem we are dealing with, and I appreciate everyone pooling their collective brainpower to try to figure this out. If LGB weren't such a hated group in society right now, we wouldn't even be here. IPD/NBF, I hope you guys aren't beating yourselves up about this. You're doing the best you can and I appreciate you.


editing to add: In case it wasn't clear, if everyone wants to go to the new site, I'll go. As to whether it's the better option-- I could go either way right now. I certainly like the new site, layout-wise! I'm happy to post my content wherever... I'll still keep doing that.

Also, thank you guys for trying so hard to get a stable place for us. <3

[–]dramasexual 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Small correction: Aevann is the owner of rdrama. Carp is just a poweruser/mod. Common confusion because Carp tends to act like he owns the place lol.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Gotcha, thank you.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It sounds like the biggest issue with setting up our own site is that someone is going to have to bite the bullet and register some degree of personal info in order to reserve us a domain name. Is that correct?

Not just the domain, although that is certainly one factor. I don't know about getting servers set up, how hosting works ... all that technical stuff is beyond me. I have an extremely low-level understanding, but no functional knowledge of setting up a site and making it run.

the one who tried to bring trolls over there early.

Yep, nice, right? This was the weekend before we were supposed to soft launch for everyone here.

Did Carp, or anyone else there, address what happened at all?

No, although Snakes did jump into the post to play mediator a bit. The chat images NBF posted is the last conversation(s) we had after that.

Also, I just want to say

Thank you, I really appreciate you (and everyone else's) support!

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't kicking myself right now. It feels like the last 2 months have been wasted, and I blew our chance for something great by trusting the wrong people and now we're right back at square one.

We probably shouldn't even use the site, right? Like u/RippoffOfLove said, better to cut our losses early and before getting established there just to have to move again?

[–]RippoffOfLoveSStraight | Overuses quotation marks 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

someone is going to have to bite the bullet and register some degree of personal info in order to reserve us a domain name

I think we should try Njalla before we resort to that. Unless anyone is willing to take one for the team. Do we still have a working relationship with LGBA?

I don't know about getting servers set up, how hosting works ... all that technical stuff is beyond me.

I am ready to help with this.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wish I had something to offer here besides encouragement and moral support... but I probably know less about anything tech-related than anybody else on this sub.

I do know something about politics, though, and can't help but wonder if this may have played some role in what happened with rDrama. In the sense that they didn't fully appreciate how "controversial" our sub is, you know? That there are all these trans-cultists-- plus their wokester flying monkeys-- gunning for us (to mix my metaphors yet again). They think that they like "drama"... but there's a world of difference between choosing to kick up a fuss for the fun of it, and finding yourself in fanatics' cross-hairs whether you like it or not. Maybe Snakes et al. found themselves with a political hot potato they were neither anticipating nor prepared for. And got cold feet. Particularly since, as I understand it, DropTheT has been trending lately... which would, of course, just serve to ramp up TQ+ frothing-at-the-mouth-ness even further.

Not that I've got the inside dope on rDrama or those behind it, obviously. But maybe something to think about, anyway.

[–]verystablegenius 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

i’m just a random chick who came from truelesbians and don’t really get what’s going on here. can you guys just pass moderation of this sub onto someone else so we can continue contributing on saidit?

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

needing more mods was one of the first problems