Sunday Social - open chat!

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-22T05:16:07+00:00

Oh, no worries-- whenever I write comments, I always view a response as optional (if appreciated), you know? Plus I often have a really hard time writing responses myself (timely or otherwise). So, what with living in a glass house and all myself, I'm certainly not inclined to throw stones here! :)

I completely relate to all of that. Good to know :)

But I guess that this fuckin' transpocalypse is too big, and too batshit, to have sprung full-blown from the head of Zeus, as it were. This has been a long time coming, I think.

Yuppp. That's so true. I think a lot about that a lot; the harassment and silencing that LGB people are currently going through is probably playing out in a bunch of other contexts that we don't even know about. It's made me think a lot more carefully about the internet as a medium for communication, about free speech, and about various types of dogma. And about the nature of open-mindedness. A lot of people say they're openminded and genuinely believe that they are... but don't act like it at all. And then you can't even gently warn them about it, because they're so touchy about views that they deem threatening! It's a tough problem to deal with on an individual level... it's way harder on a societal level.

I'm so sorry to hear that! But of course not surprised. Can't be many lesbians who come through this nightmare unscathed :(

Thanks dude, much appreciated. Yeah, it's rough. I consider myself one of the luckier ones because I didn't medically transition. I have been thinking a lot more, recently, about how the TQ+ movement has affected bisexuals as well; I think it doesn't get talked about as much just because the conversion therapy rhetoric directed at homosexuals is so blatantly awful. Down to talk about that too if you ever are!

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-22T04:58:42+00:00

Really glad your dog turned out mostly okay!! That's thoughtful of the other people at the dog park, I'm glad they were there and helped you. God, I bet, I would've been so freaked out. Hope you all will never experience anything like that again!

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-22T04:56:12+00:00

No pressure, if you'd rather not that's okay too :)

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T02:18:10+00:00

Also, if we’re pretending it’s misogynistic to not be sexually attracted to women, you have to acknowledge all straight women are misogynists.

Lol that's so true. Hahaha

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T02:16:14+00:00

What the hell is this subreddit. A sub about a TV show that supposedly supports gay men, and a post about shaming homosexuality gets 600 upvotes?

It’s disappointing from the show because I still hear so many gay men saying things like “vaginas are disgusting”, which is an incredibly close minded and exclusionary sentiment.

Comments like this make me wonder whether most straight people ever understood what homosexuality is in the first place...

edit: At least someone's sane:

Sorry but we really need to have a discussion about why people who are clearly not gay men think it is appropriate to comment and judge on how gay men discuss their sexuality. Being gay and existing in a society that sets hererosexual relationships as the norm leads to many engaging in sexual relationships they don't want, so obviouslywe find it interesting to discuss these things.. As a gay man it would be wrong for me to start policing the subcultures of lesbians, nonbinary or transgender people , so please show the same respect and don't police an identity you don't belong to.

(Not aimed at OP but the sub in general)

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T02:11:41+00:00

Awesome, deal with bullshit no matter what you do. Lol.

the last time I used an app.

Glad for your sake that you don't have to anymore! Hope your fiancee's doing well :)

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T02:01:50+00:00

That's amazing! Well, not amazing, but the meme itself is amazing. Would be a good one to post.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:58:26+00:00

Thanks man, I appreciate it. Yeah talking about it to other people is like a huge breath of fresh air, god. I'm glad you found someone you could talk to about it at least once!

But yeah for now, just focus on you and when you're in a better situation or the trans bubble bursts and more people peak, it can be a better time to air out what you really think.

You're probably right, that's probably the best way to go about it. It's just so hard, not having anyone to really trust on this topic. I'm hoping to try to test the waters with another friend soon though, so fingers crossed. Best of luck with your dating endeavors, rooting for you dude.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:44:58+00:00

Gay transmen are just so open and blatant with their homophobia if you go on any of their socials they fling homophobic slurs constantly, and have it in their bios or username. They love talking about how gay men are dirty and/or disgusting. Along with narc meltdown when regrected, usually along with verbal abuse or how they're being oppressed. I've never seen or met any group of people that are so openly homophobic.

I'm inclined to speculate that this sort of behavior is the result of an unholy crossover between 1. how popular it is in liberal circles to insult men, period, and 2. lots of simmering homophobia that finally found an outlet.

For some reason, too, many straight women seem to think very negatively of feminine men... certainly when it comes to dating. And heterosexual trans-identified females are probably most likely to fall into this category, because they seem to believe that you can be a "real man" if you just conform to masculine sex stereotypes. So then they end up thinking that gay men are "failed men" because being same sex attracted runs counter to masculine sex stereotypes.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:35:35+00:00

Don't know who Matt Z is but thanks for doing the good work, man.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:33:36+00:00

God that's so true lol. People so act like this.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:32:57+00:00

I've thought about starting one! I told myself I might look into it after s/LGBmemes is better established. Which it is now, I guess, although it's mostly very empty unless I post there lol. My main concern with modding a new sub like that is that it would probably be more discussion-based than a meme sub and would require more moderation effort.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:30:54+00:00

Holy shit lol. That is so hilarious and amazing, and simultaneously I am so concerned for that child. I seriously hope he is ok. From his mother's reaction, I'm worried about her taking anger out on him.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:23:36+00:00

Eh, I agree with you up to a point. I think it's kind of sad that this gay guy couldn't be physically affectionate (in a pretty minor way) with a female friend without her interpreting it as hitting on her, even despite him clearly stating and explaining his sexuality.

Also, lol'd at "gay grandpa."

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:20:04+00:00

Boundaries by definition can only be defensive.

Such a simple statement, but honestly that's so true and I think that's at the heart of many people's misunderstandings over the word "boundary".

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:18:25+00:00

He's mentioned before how he's not attracted to vaginas/people with vaginas and I want to respect that

Then respect it. And anyway, why would you waste your time trying to date someone who literally says they will never be attracted to you?

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:15:22+00:00

I understand why vulnerable LGB people who have been cast out would be motivated to recast their sexual orientation as a badge of honor as an initial coping mechanism, but for there to ever be peace or normalcy, the only answer is for sexual orientation to be seen as neutral.

Completely agree. I'd only add... I think there's a big distinction to be made between telling LGB kids, "You have value as a human being, exactly as you are, existing with this immutable characteristic" and "Your value as a human being comes from this immutable characteristic that you have." The latter is breeding grounds for narcissism, IMO. I never fell into the second line of thinking and I question whether it is beneficial even in the slightest. People get mad sometimes when you make this sort of distinction, saying that it's splitting hairs, but I don't think that it is.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:09:18+00:00

Now if only this wasn't what most Tinder profiles I come across look like.

Damn, is it really most?? I've been avoiding dating for the most part, I'm never sure how close to the average profile the Graham Linehan parody is.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:07:28+00:00

^ Literally. The two of them constantly impress me. I do love your comments, though, too, jules! They're very grounding :)

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:05:27+00:00

Wtf I always get shot down when I claim I considered if I was trans as a teen.

Seems like it's so common. And kids these days get hit with the messaging, "If you even consider that you're trans, then that's a sign that you are!" Talk about magical thinking. It scares me how close I was to transitioning. Thank fucking god I never fell into one of those grooming forums like r/egg_irl.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:01:40+00:00

I felt pressured to "identify" as a man because my family is homophobic and hates lesbian women. I know another lesbian woman who's had the same experience. I think it's really common. And the more that trans rights activists deny that this is a real and prevalent form of homophobia, the more they're going to alienate LGB people.

edit: typo

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T01:00:03+00:00

s/transthegayaway

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T00:58:27+00:00

"Every person gets to define their identity however they want, and choose their own labels!"

"I get to call you cis, and you have no right to reject that label or to choose your own label."

Pick one. They're mutually exclusive. Believing both those statements is hypocritical to the max. "Rules for thee, and not for me"

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T00:48:38+00:00

Way late to responding to this, sorry!! I'm so glad that you and other people have noticed this similarity!

As well as the former's resemblance to yet another strain of dog-derangement, the 1990s "public-off-leashing-is-the-civil-rights-battle-of-our-time" craze. People went apeshit (or is that dogshit?) over the notion that they were entitled to let Fido run loose, and anyone who had a problem with it was clearly neurotic and/or WANTED PRECIOUS PUPPIES TO DIIIIE. Sound familiar?

Really. Now THAT is fascinating. I am too young to know much about a movement like that, haha. But I would love to hear more! Probably a convo for DMs though. Didn't mean to start a fight in the Sunday Social thread, whoops lol.

Can you tell that I still have psychic scars from innocently running into THAT particular buzzsaw? Honestly the trans-madness feels like a PTSD flashback! Only worse!

Dude, that's completely fair. I sure as hell have collected some psychic scars from the trans homophobia.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T00:45:36+00:00

Sorry, I'm way late to responding to you. The subreddit linked is trying to get legislation passed that will ban pitbulls by limiting breeding and enforcing spaying/neutering. People on the subreddit have been doxxed by a certain fanatic group of pro-pitbull enthusiasts. I was surprised by how similar their doxxing/harassment behavior seemed to that of TRAs.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T00:43:16+00:00

I'm so sorry that happened to your dog. I hope your dog survived and is doing ok.

Now I'm in the camp of many of them have bad owners, but also the breed was bred for fighting.

Yeah that is where I land on this, too. Some people will deny one or the other of those points... I think they're both true.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T00:41:06+00:00

Thanks for sharing your thoughts (I'm way late to respond to this discussion that I started, lol; that's my bad). I agree with your points; I think a lot of people who have sympathy for pitbulls aren't at all just trying to posture and signal for social brownie points, they genuinely feel bad for the dogs and want to help them. But a certain vocal minority of pitbull advocates do seem pretty extreme...

Really fascinating-- and honestly I'm glad-- to see that multiple other people on this sub have noticed the parallel between the two topics! I never would have thought to make a connection between TRAs and pitbull owners had it not been pointed out to me.

I haven't personally researched pitbulls but I know they have strong jaws that can do more damage than most dogs if applied to human flesh

Yeah I'm honestly not sure that it's a physical advantage so much as a psychological one; they've been bred selecting for aggressive traits. It's pretty disturbing, but so many accounts of pitbull attacks seem to involve the dog wagging its tail and seeming excited in a positive, happy way, even while it's mauling someone. Whereas the majority of dogs would not have that sort of emotion while attacking someone, and typically would attack out of self-defense or if they felt threatened.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-20T00:33:11+00:00

I think I remember you saying at some point that you're Gen Z, right? If so, yeah, it might be a tough time out there right now.

Whoops, responding to this way late, but yes! Yeah, it can be frustrating. I think most people my age I've talked to believe that sex is a spectrum, for example, if that gives you a sense of it...

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T21:24:48+00:00

If they weren't enablers for TRAs, they would likely be enablers for some other group for some other reason

Yupppp. Exactly. I've been struggling to put words to this.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T21:19:26+00:00

I was talking to someone the other day about how AHS on Reddit has organized and encouraged harassment, brigading, and doxxing behaviors directed at users and forums that don't support gender identity ideology. They told me that they had heard of something similar happening with... pitbull dog legislation. What? They linked me to this post about it. I'm just surprised because so many of the tactics described in this post-- getting users banned from other subreddits just because they participate in one disliked subreddit, brigading, doxxing, making a whole private Discord server devoted to planning how to get a subreddit banned-- are the same tactics that extremist TRAs use.

Has anyone else here heard of this...? I'm inclined to guess that this isn't as big a conflict as the one surrounding transgender ideology, but then again, I'm new to this topic.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T20:54:59+00:00

I never used to think this, but I guess this is what happens when a generation is raised with no real problems

I don't know that that's fair to say. Maybe it's a bit of speculation here, but I'm honestly inclined to guess that many of the people who are so positive about prostitution/sex work on social media probably come from financially secure backgrounds (which many of us in the younger generations have not..). They haven't realized that so many people who engage in prostitution worldwide do it only because they are incredibly desperate for money, food, shelter, etc. because they haven't before dealt with the threat of losing access to their basic necessities.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T20:41:51+00:00

Omg, thanks dude :) :) all right, that's it, I've got to go find her!!

So nice to see another gen Z-er on this sub, by the way! I love talking to people of all ages here, but sometimes I wish there were more of us here so that older LGB people's impression of our gen isn't just gender identity insanity, lol.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T20:29:57+00:00

I've mostly avoided dating because so many of the LGB people I've met seem to believe in transgender ideology, and speak in a hostile way about people who don't. It's depressing and demoralizing. I hate to sound so negative, but it disturbs me to see so many people from my own dating pool spout homophobic claims without a second thought. In real life, I've witnessed people get bullied, have character-attacking rumors spread about them and even undergo social shunning just because they are skeptical of the idea that a man (biological male) can reasonably be called a woman (biological female). So I'm well aware that there are real consequences for speaking up in support of LGB rights, and honestly, I'm not as open about my pro-LGB views as I'd like to be. That's not to even mention the risks of doxxing, online harassment/threats and potentially losing your job. I would really like to keep my job... currently, I'm prioritizing that over having a dating life.

To be fair, I live in a very politically-left area. So I do recognize that it's probably not nearly this bad everywhere. I also would guess that there are other LGB people like me who just aren't speaking up right now because they're scared of the risks of questioning transgender ideology. And I'm also in my early 20s... I have a desperate hope that many people my age are just acting like idiots right now, and will hopefully grow more mature given more time.

edit: Also, thanks for making a post about this, I appreciate being able to hear other LGB people's experiences with and thoughts about this topic. It's something that's been bothering me the last few months; I've been wondering if I ought to try to change the way I think about this topic.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T20:14:47+00:00

I love spending time with women, even when we disagree on basic tenets of reality. So I do go on dates with lesbians and bi women who are TRAs, or just "well-meaning" normies.

Really? That's so funny how different people respond to that situation, lol. It just makes me feel depressed when I hear other gay/bisexual women spout TRA talking points; it makes me feel more alone, and also frustrated to hear people call beliefs that are rooted in sexism and homophobia "progressive." Sounds like you've found a way to take something negative and turn it into a positive?

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T20:09:48+00:00

Probably some brigading going on? I think r/AgainstHateSubreddits has been targeting AGB for a while now. Because being gay must mean you're hateful... right.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T20:08:24+00:00

I think HER markets itself towards the LGBTQ+ movement, though, right? Maybe it's more likely than other mainstream apps to have people who believe they need to announce their pronouns.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T20:06:29+00:00

Aw, that's awesome :) hope I'm as lucky as you. I'm assuming you're gen Z as well; it seems like so many people our age believe in transgender ideology..

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T20:00:23+00:00

You know, that's a good point. Silver linings, I guess; villainization and blanket-rejection of people who don't believe in trans ideology could be a way to weed out potential dating prospects who don't think critically much.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T19:57:46+00:00

I know it varies by demographics such as location and age, but for what it's worth, almost every person I end up talking to about trans stuff agrees that it's all bullshit.

You know, I've actually had a somewhat similar experience, surprisingly. I haven't had as much opportunity in the past few weeks to participate here, but I've brought up trans-related topics with a few people IRL, and they were surprisingly receptive to talking about it and had some doubts/questions about popular claims made by the trans movement. Granted, those were people I chose specifically because I think they're more open-minded than the average person, but it was still a pleasant surprise. They were all straight, though. I can only hope other L/B women are similarly questioning of trans ideology, otherwise my dating life is screwed, lol.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T19:44:13+00:00

I think most straight men have barely thought about the actual experience of being lesbian at all. They likely have no idea how much their mental image of "lesbian" has been formed by other straight people, mostly straight men. "Lesbian" media is dominated by non-trans straight men, "lesbian" forums like subreddits are dominated by transgender-identifying straight male autogynephiles, "lesbian" academic circles are usually full of "political lesbians" many of whom are straight women.

Straight people don't have to think about the dating pool size problem. It drives me up the wall, I think it's honestly one of the most difficult things about being homosexual.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T19:33:34+00:00

Lol, I had an identical experience a couple weeks ago. Seems like most of the time I hear someone bring her up IRL, they're trying to do some sort of social signaling thing.. it's so strange to watch.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-09T19:27:35+00:00

Ah gotcha, I didn't realize you were referring mostly to the "truscum" group.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-02T00:17:38+00:00

There is even some conflict starting within the nb community, specifically between those who identify as such due to dysphoria and those who don't or are doing it for euphoria, as well as between they/thems and neo-pronouners. I can also see them realizing that everyone, including their own, hates them because of their tantrums.

That's really interesting.. are there particular subreddits where I might be able to find more examples of this? It really does seem like the tide is starting to turn, in a lot of ways.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T23:54:07+00:00

Yeah, it's a little harder for Twitter but I've had good luck doing that with Reddit posts. Knowing username definitely helps but often it's blocked out, especially for screenshots shared from Reddit where there are rules implemented to discourage doxxing and whatnot.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T23:51:35+00:00

LOL the Melissa Etheridge poster.

Thanks hahaha. I'll have to watch that, I've heard a lot of LGB people recommend that movie.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T23:48:48+00:00

No worries, and me too. :)

The binary trans will eventually just say, "That was just the radicals saying that, not us," or blame nonbinaries entirely.

Yeah, that's true. There is already this sentiment among the "truscum" subgroup of trans-identified people. (Ironically, many of those people are straight and AGP/AAP. Not that it's any better when a gay/bisexual person feels pressured to transition out of internalized homophobia!)

A lot of nbs, in my opinion, are future transphobes or will just be vocal trans critics, and I fully expect to see a wave of former nb people talking about how they regret transitioning or simply leaving the community in the next 5 years.

Yeppp. And I'm inclined to wonder whether a bunch of them might just go switch to a different ideology that denies reality. The post I linked with Helena the formerly-nonbinary-identifying detransitioner is a good example of your prediction.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T23:40:42+00:00

Yup, same here.

Just curious, what does your flair mean? Is that like a reference?

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T23:35:23+00:00

I couldn't find a direct image either, but I found this picture of a dick drawn around 300 CE, if that helps.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T23:29:15+00:00

No problem :) happy New Year!

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T23:28:23+00:00

Really really glad that this is finally making its way into media outlets. Wish more outlets would pick up on this.

I haven't really explored TikTok's TQ+ content much, but from what I've heard it sounds even worse and more extreme than is Reddit's or Tumblr's-- and that's saying something.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T23:26:47+00:00

How I usually do it is like this:

type out the text in the image into Google search
find the direct link-- the link to the Twitter thread, for example
open up archive.is
paste your direct link into the red box to archive it. (Or to search and see if someone else has archived it already, paste the direct link into the dark blue box (is that blue or am I blind?))

Voila.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T23:23:32+00:00

"You don't like me because I'm a woman and you're a gay man? Fine! You deserve conversion therapy!"

It's 2022 (happy New Year!). The fact that people still say stuff like this and don't suffer any negative consequences for it or societal condemnation is a sign of regress, not progress. Contrary to the mainstream liberal narrative that "things are so great for gay people now!"

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T23:20:53+00:00

Damn. Hope you have support/close relationships with other people in your life! Kinda sounds like these people were more of the energy-draining type. A blessing in disguise, maybe?

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T23:19:49+00:00

That is rude of her. Glad you're not doing that. I feel like the whole "pronouns in email signature" thing is the prototypical example of virtue signaling... where's the evidence that that actually helps trans people?

My workplace has some people doing it and there's started to be some pressure for people to do it. Ugh..

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T23:14:29+00:00

Is that a Harry Potter reference? Get outta here, you bigot!

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T23:06:00+00:00

I believe I mentioned that in my comment.

I didn't get that from reading your comment, which is why I commented about it, but it sounds like we're essentially on the same page; thanks for clarifying. I wanted to highlight that there is hope for people post-transition because some of the LGB people here on this sub have transitioned and detransitioned, or have felt pressured to transition. I myself didn't transition (thank god), but I seriously considered it at one point. Now, knowing what I do, I sorely wish that I had had positive LGB/GNC role models in my life to teach me that it's ok to be a woman who "acts like a guy" in some ways.

I won't give them a pass when they try to erase LGB people, harass people, and threaten violence.

I hear you; I agree. I don't want to downplay the damage done by people who colonize LGB spaces, even if they didn't realize the harm they're doing at the time; they still need to own up to the damage they've done, and I hate to say it but I highly doubt we're ever going to see a proper apology to LGB people from TQ+ adherents. (A similar discussion to this came up on this thread about a detransitioner who claimed to be bisexual but was actually straight; again, even if she didn't intend to talk over LGB voices and harm LGB communities, she did.)

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T22:54:49+00:00

God, I would have been fucking terrified. I don't think I would've ever trusted a school computer or software program again... so fucking creepy.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T22:53:57+00:00

Unfortunately, yes. It's so goddamn disturbing.

I think societies need to have discussions more often about the reach of technology. I doubt that many of these kids understood the extent to which their activities were being monitored. I would have been creeped out as all hell by this, as a kid.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T22:49:17+00:00

If having sexual boundaries means you're transphobic, then I'm transphobic.

My homosexuality is transphobic. I can't do anything about my homosexuality.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T22:46:27+00:00

Always amazes me the extent to which women who have traits/behaviors deemed "traditionally masculine" seem to break people's brains, lol. Same with men who are feminine. Like, no, just because I have some "guy hobbies" doesn't mean I am a guy inside. Why do so many people consider this to be progressive? Lol.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T22:42:03+00:00

Hey, sorry I'm so late to reply to this-- took an unexpected break from saidit for a little while.

I really appreciate you breaking this down in detail, thanks. Now I'm curious as to whether I've missed noticing some behavior like this among people I know IRL. I'll keep an eye out for it in the future.

Now, obviously there are plenty of kids who sadly have homophobic parents. But also, in this day and age, there are plenty of parents who aren't homophobic, and are completely supportive of their kids being gay.

Yeah, and also... parents who claim to be supportive of their kids, but behind closed doors say how disgusting they think being gay is. That was my parents, lol. I always wonder how many parents claiming to be supportive actually are, as a result of my own experiences with this.

I'm really glad you're concerned about your niece and thinking about that! I wish I had a gay/bisexual family member to support me like that, lol. I do think, though, that your niece's feelings about this might be due to something more than just "teenage melodrama"; there is a lot of messaging in media about how family is often unsupportive of LGB people, which might've led her to mistakenly assume that the same is necessarily true for her family. A lack of representation of LGB-supportive families might easily lead an anxious teen to make that mistake, I think, which is not really the same as melodrama IMO. Might seem like splitting hairs but I think it's an interesting dynamic at play.

Congrats on the baby! Tangential, but I'm curious, are you lesbian? I'm lesbian and am still on the fence about whether or not I want to have kids, and I'm always curious to hear other LGB adults' experiences with having kids.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T22:27:51+00:00

Emo is more specific than lesbian at this point

Lol that's actually true.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T22:26:38+00:00

The majority of these people, particularly the older ones, will never have healthy relationships.

Okay, I don't think that's realistic. A subset of transitioners, sure. But a lot of kids and young adults sucked into gender identity ideology do so with pressure from peers, or even the adults in their lives. And it's a pretty common experience among people in the general population to make some mistakes that are fueled by peer pressure, while growing up. Doing something dumb when you're young doesn't mean you'll "never have healthy relationships" ever.

The biggest issue with the transgender movement is that many of the kids pressured to transition undergo medical treatment that has irreversible negative health outcomes (loss of reproductive ability, poor bone development, etc.).

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T22:20:40+00:00

You are valid uWu.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T22:19:22+00:00

I totally relate to your title. I think my biggest issue with "letting" straight people have the q-slur, though, is that it still is used as a homophobic slur in some places-- sometimes even by the supposedly "progressive" people who want to use it. And that fact is usually denied, minimized, dismissed by many people who self-identify as "queer".

Also, that article is total bullshit, lol. As time goes on, more and more the word "queer" has nothing to do with being LGB. Drop the Q, please...

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T22:06:06+00:00

"All right, gay men don't actually want me, despite what I was told about sex-based attraction not being real? Time to call upon my trusty fallback plan, bisexuals!"

Awesome.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T22:03:45+00:00

Judith Butler, John D'Emilio, Kobena Mercer, Adrienne Rich

Uhhhhhh. I will pass. Thanks. I don't think that's "pre-colonization" era... that's just colonization by different people-- political lesbians.

Fuck the straight people who think that being LGB is just like a fun costume that you can "choose" to put on.

reluctant_commenter · 2022-01-01T22:01:56+00:00

I hope that's the case. Even so, there's still a risk for people who believe in gender identity ideology to take advantage of it.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-22T01:15:03+00:00

Really? You think the bar is that much lower in the midwest? Genuinely curious.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-22T01:14:34+00:00

That's actually a good question. I think many are, but I'd love to see an actual breakdown.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-22T01:10:02+00:00

That's a good point. I think this does differ somewhat by region, but I've had a similar experience talking to some very religious Christians-- "what? bisexual? It's all gay and it's all bad, they're just more in denial about it / more confused," etc.

I think it's easy to forget that if you live in a liberal bubble.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-22T01:08:21+00:00

Someone posted the whole article about this a month or so ago; IIRC, the couple is Mormon, they're trying to pretend that the husband was able to change his sexual orientation or something. It's actually more conservative homophobia than liberal homophobia.

In regards to your title, I'd say:

biphobia, in many cases, whether internalized or from external sources. Bisexual men are often pressured to identify as gay, and I've heard of bisexual women who feel like they have to identify as lesbian in order for people to take their bisexuality seriously.
TQ+ ideological beliefs: "bisexual = same-gender-attracted" erases the actual definition of bisexuality, which is attraction to both sexes. So then people are confused as to what the word actually means and call themselves bisexual when they're not.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-22T01:02:16+00:00

I'm not trying to dismiss drag queens, but people seem to have this idea in their heads that because they were transgressive in terms of how they dressed, they made social change happen while all the mainstream gay people with careers simply hid in the closet and did nothing. That's not what I remember at all.

This is exactly the message I've been taught, by other LGBTQ+ people around me and by all the media popular among people in my generation. Fascinating to hear the opposite perspective from someone who was actually around for that time period.

I think a key piece, which you highlighted, is this:

What I think a lot of people don't get is that a lot of community organizing and activist work is actually pretty boring. Most of it does not involve dramatic confrontations in the street.

Nobody wants to hear that. Nobody wants to hear the boring details of the actual truth. Certainly not people in the TQ+ movement. I tend to relate much more to the "assimilated gay person" stereotype; being homosexual/bisexual is natural and there's nothing "special" about it. But some people seem to want to hang their entire identities and self-worth off of the fact that they're LGB (if, in fact, they are LGB and aren't just LARPing straight people pretending to be...). I hear so much shit from people my age directed at LGB people who aren't "loud and proud," who don't initiate conversations about their gayness/bisexuality all the time. Just because I don't wear rainbows and the latest TQ+ fashion stereotypes doesn't mean I'm not proud to be myself, or that I'm ashamed of being gay. Such BS.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-22T00:55:51+00:00

Another analogy is the alarming number of convicted arsonists who worked as fire investigators! Manufacture a problem! Be the hero/genius saving the day! Enjoy your hero status!

Lol is that a real thing? That's lowkey hilarious.

There's a phenomena called 'white saviour complex...

Yeah, I agree, there does seem to be some kind of pattern like that going on with a certain subset of straight people. "Straight savior complex," I guess? I wonder how common it is.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-22T00:53:15+00:00

I don't know if I would call either of those "skilled," haha.

Anyway, is anyone else disheartened at all from the crazy upvotes for this delusional stupidity?

Yes. Absolutely. I honestly think that the popularity of "transbians," i.e. men who wish they were lesbians, speaks volumes about the extent to which lesbian women are fetishized. It's fucking gross and I hate to generalize but it honestly makes me trust straight men, as a demographic, a lot less.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T21:15:22+00:00

archive link: https://archive.md/tA18K

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T21:00:49+00:00

This is 100% a honeypot.

Hmm, well, I think it was started by someone who was GC, so I don't think it was intended to cause that result, at least. But I agree with your concern, I'm worried about people who posted about it who will probably get doxxed.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T20:58:13+00:00

You asked for evidence; I gave you over a dozen peer-reviewed scientific articles; you refuse to read them. You clearly don't give a shit about evidence, lol.

Flat earthers have links and "sources" too.

LOL. You patently reject all links because flat earthers use links, too?? It must be really hard for you to click around on the internet, with so many links, hahaha.

This is the best thing I've seen all day. Happy holidays, troll.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T20:46:35+00:00

Visitors are reminded throughout of the deeply oppressed people who live among us: a group apparently known as “the queers”.

Not me, thanks. Let's drop the Q, please. And add back the real Q, for those who need it: "questioning".

A plaque informs the curious that a 2018 report by the Student Union LGBTQ+ campaign found that “98 per cent of University of Oxford trans students have mental health problems”. Looking at the unhinged scribbles covering a sizeable portion of the exhibition, this does not come as a surprise.

Lul.

“My cuddly gosling comes with me when I feel vulnerable, and keeps me safe from my own criticism. When I came to Oxford as a queer working-class person, I experienced a chasm of identity separating me from others.”

I like to think that my differences from the people around me are a source of interesting conversation and provide a chance for me to consider new perspectives.

edit: I love this article so much, lol:

The presumed white-cis-heteronormative scum visiting are then treated to some nuggets of wisdom about the experience of trans people of colour who “come under closer scrutiny than their white siblings” and therefore “may not receive social validation of their gender or transness”. Mystifyingly, the exhibit accompanying this text is a Beastie Boys band t-shirt with a “Happy Birthday” badge. The uneducated are further informed that for the queer-identified “the greatest freedom of expression” can come from “non-gendered items” like “hair dye or tattoos” — doing little to assuage the suspicion that identifying as queer might be a fashion for the over-privileged and under-occupied.

Oh, I just realized Jo Bartosch wrote this article. No wonder it's so good. :)

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T20:28:38+00:00

There's no science in "sexuality is genetic" sweaties.

Oh, yes there is. :) Here are my sources, can you show me yours that offer counter-evidence?

J. M. Bailey et al., A family history study of male sexual orientation using three in- dependent samples. Behav. Genet. 29, 79–86 (1999). https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1023/A:1021652204405.pdf

Camperio-Ciani, F. Corna, C. Capiluppi, Evidence for maternally inherited factors favouring male homosexuality and promoting female fecundity. Proc. Biol. Sci. 271, 2217–2221 (2004). https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspb.2004.2872?casa_token=gRKrhyhqZ5gAAAAA:ovt-eM8MUVakT6wqtv7pHyINEOb2IxW0uNb9A5TtdEsG7jke2VeVc7AqzTki8VjpQAuuBMlOGBKY8g

D. H. Hamer, S. Hu, V. L. Magnuson, N. Hu, A. M. Pattatucci, A linkage between DNA markers on the X chromosome and male sexual orientation. Science 261, 321–327 (1993). http://teachline.ls.huji.ac.il/72350/Homosexuality_paper.pdf

Q. Rahman et al., Maternal inheritance and familial fecundity factors in male ho- mosexuality. Arch. Sex. Behav. 37, 962–969 (2008). https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10508-007-9191-2.pdf

S. W. Semenyna, D. P. VanderLaan, L. J. Petterson, P. L. Vasey, Familial patterning and prevalence of male androphilia in Samoa. J. Sex Res. 54, 1077–1084 (2017). https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00224499.2016.1218416?casa_token=_tKupCTUzmoAAAAA%3AP3UeiA7mB6d3IIGN52bIib5NiMZBJpLcOblQvwq7KaIh9M62ndOkw2aKaPDVjtT4c7vYLuP9ZcNN

G. Schwartz, R. M. Kim, A. B. Kolundzija, G. Rieger, A. R. Sanders, Biodemographic and physical correlates of sexual orientation in men. Arch. Sex. Behav. 39, 93–109 (2010). https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10508-009-9499-1.pdf

D. P. Vanderlaan, D. L. Forrester, L. J. Petterson, P. L. Vasey, The prevalence of fa’afafine relatives among Samoan gynephilic men and fa’afafine. Arch. Sex. Behav. 42, 353–359 (2013). https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10508-012-0015-7.pdf

D. P. Vanderlaan, J. R. Vokey, P. L. Vasey, Is transgendered male androphilia familial in non-Western populations? The case of a Samoan village. Arch. Sex. Behav. 42, 361– 370 (2013). https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10508-012-0037-1.pdf

K. Alanko et al., Common genetic effects of gender atypical behavior in childhood and sexual orientation in adulthood: A study of Finnish twins. Arch. Sex. Behav. 39, 81–92 (2010). https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10508-008-9457-3.pdf

J. M. Bailey, M. P. Dunne, N. G. Martin, Genetic and environmental influences on sexual orientation and its correlates in an Australian twin sample. J. Pers. Soc. Psychol. 78, 524–536 (2000). https://psycnet.apa.org/fulltext/2000-07236-009.html

K. S. Kendler, L. M. Thornton, S. E. Gilman, R. C. Kessler, Sexual orientation in a U.S. national sample of twin and nontwin sibling pairs. Am. J. Psychiatry 157, 1843–1846 (2000). https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.1176/appi.ajp.157.11.1843

K. M. Kirk, J. M. Bailey, M. P. Dunne, N. G. Martin, Measurement models for sexual orientation in a community twin sample. Behav. Genet. 30, 345–356 (2000). https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1023/A:1026557719181.pdf

N. Långström, Q. Rahman, E. Carlström, P. Lichtenstein, Genetic and environmental effects on same-sex sexual behavior: A population study of twins in Sweden. Arch. Sex. Behav. 39, 75–80 (2010). https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10508-008-9386-1.pdf

P. Santtila et al., Potential for homosexual response is prevalent and genetic. Biol. Psychol. 77, 102–105 (2008). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301051107001433?casa_token=vLVmrfdQdgcAAAAA:cmY1U7xrKUOBfEWtUggbEcAc2MBaijOnxkqBvQp_sUeCgOZ71iHyokB8m2PP04u2AZsqmsU1zw

B. S. Mustanski et al., A genomewide scan of male sexual orientation. Hum. Genet. 116, 272–278 (2005). https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s00439-004-1241-4.pdf

A. R. Sanders et al., Genome-wide scan demonstrates significant linkage for male sexual orientation. Psychol. Med. 45, 1379–1388 (2015). https://www.shrink-friendly.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Sanders_etal_2015.pdf

B. Wang et al., Association analysis between the tag SNP for sonic hedgehog rs9333613 polymorphism and male sexual orientation. J. Androl. 33, 951–954 (2012). https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2164/jandrol.110.012849

(much thanks to a former user on this sub who helped me find these!)

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T20:26:46+00:00

Well, not all of us, that's why we're here :) and I think there are actually quite a few LGB people who are interested in dropping the T who don't know about our community here on saidit.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T20:25:39+00:00

Until we have AI moderators who can do the job for us...one does not simply walk into Mordor.

LOL fair. I do think, though, that we should get some continuity going... What other platforms do you think would be a better fit than Twitter? Youtube? Facebook...?

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T20:24:08+00:00

They’re like Born Again Christians where it’s like the bigger the sin, the bigger the redemption and the more pious you have proven yourself to be. They act like they have changed so much from their past when they’re in just a different iteration of their same inclination to find belonging in socially destructive, alternative communities.

Yeppppp. Talk about lack of self awareness! And yes, I'm constantly struck by how religious-sounding TQ+ communities really are. "I, a humble trans former sinner, am here to talk about my sinful past" it seriously sounds like Christianity lol.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T06:38:39+00:00

Oh my god, lol. Rules I didn't think need to be made!

The tone of that post is so forgiving... when they sit there calling JKR and people who believe in biological reality Nazis! It is absolutely ludicrous. "Rules for thee and not for me," indeed. Another post about it and it honestly sounds like typical teenage edgelord boys bragging about being "Nazis" or whatever... The fact that this is apparently so common for transwomen speaks volumes.

Thank you for sharing!

edit: archive link of that post where they're talking about all being ex-Nazis. I'm just amazed.

Don't forget LGBTQ ppl are still ppl. And ppl can be assholes. We are not saints. Don't ask for forgiveness. Work towards redemption

Okay, thanks, ~~Catholic church~~ LGBTQ+ church!

edit2: I have to make a note about this comment

the whole "haha I was a nazi" thing really worries me, because it means you didn't have the ability to respect the weak until you became weak. people do not always learn from such an experience.

So close and yet so far. Trans people, as a demographic group, are not even remotely as vulnerable as the media paints them as. And, yeah, many of these people did not lose their scorn for vulnerable minorities. Just look at the blatant homophobia and sexism pouring out from TQ+ communities on a daily basis.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T06:27:50+00:00

Oh wow, it looks like you are haha. Yeah, you take care as well. :)

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T06:23:45+00:00

Nah, you're probably right. Thank you for pointing that out, I appreciate it!

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T06:22:17+00:00

Ok, I'm glad I'm not the only one who had that reaction. It also kind of rubs me the wrong way. I mean, I totally get that expressing a lack of belief in gender identity would be social suicide for many people... it certainly would be for me... but like, it's just not the same as sexual orientation based discrimination. The homophobia I faced growing up, for example, did a ton of harm to my mental health, not to mention the effects of being in the closet from a very young age... that's something that someone with GC views who isn't LGB just doesn't have to deal with.

Y'all might not be aware, but in the lead up to the 2020 U.S. Presidential election conservative "coming out" videos were a huge trend. I found it shallow and offensive. This is also shallow and offensive.

Yup I remember that. I'm inclined to agree.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T06:17:27+00:00

Do you have an example of this? Would love to see it (not doubting you, just curious).

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T06:16:22+00:00

Same here. There's still so much stigma over it.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T06:14:19+00:00

What should I put on the splash page for why it's private? I'm thinking "TERF RIGHTS!", but am open to suggestion.

"Aimee Challenor rules! Reddit is the best."

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T06:13:40+00:00

I think it would be great to have an official Twitter account for our sub! Continuity across platforms. I'm not about to volunteer, though; I'm pretty Twitter-inexperienced, I only lurk on it.

There's also https://twitter.com/lgbdropthet, which took the name back in 2020, made 2 tweets, and has done nothing with it since then.

Lol, the salt.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-20T06:10:24+00:00

Hmm. I thought it was intended to be lighthearted; I used to see this sort of flyer when I was in college. But if you think it's probably meant in a harmful way, I'm happy to take it down.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-19T21:11:07+00:00

That's a good point. I think many of us who are critical of gender identity are not open about it because of the real dangers associated with being open about it.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-19T21:07:02+00:00

There is a Twitter account called "LGB with the T"-- guess they're trying to copy our name. The profile says it's associated with a group called Trans Radio UK... what are the odds that this is a transgender-identified person claiming to speak for LGB? Lol.

reluctant_commenter · 2021-12-19T19:45:20+00:00

From the article:

My wife and I have been threatened in the same way as many others - with rape, death and sectarian violence. My wife received a DM including a photograph of the front of our house and a message detailing the gruesome ways in which the sender wanted to harm her. The police were informed and they did nothing but record it as a “non-crime hate incident”. My wife’s jobs have been doxxed too and she has been reported to the police by, among others, a man with a track record of using the police as his own personal enforcement arm.

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