LGB ErasureNew Marsha just dropped

submitted by ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah from theguardian.com

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[–]Femaleisnthateful 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I really like how 'white' and especially 'gay' are used as perjoratives throughout this article.

This man clearly has a lot of contempt for gays, despite having been one himself before undergoing gender conversion therapy.

Also how were transgender people persecuted, exactly? When was transition ever illegal? His only evidence seems to be that gays didn't center him enough.

[–]JulienMayfair 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Also how were transgender people persecuted, exactly? When was transition ever illegal? His only evidence seems to be that gays didn't center him enough.

And what "rights" is she still fighting for? The fact is that most of the political victories won by gays and lesbians directly or indirectly benefited trans people, too, like overturning sodomy laws (not mentioned here). And same-sex marriage meant that whatever your sex was, it no longer mattered. Oh, but we can't be given credit for that. We're just the mean, old oppressors who reduced her to robbing hotel safes to make a living.

But the whole thing is pretty much a vague fluff piece to create another trans Saint.

Who’s gonna let me own property?

Uh, maybe the county office of deeds and records?

And she acts like someone is going to come break down her door and arrest her at any moment, which is not going to happen.

Back in the 80s and 90s, I knew gay men who donated tens of thousands of dollars to keep the lights on in gay and lesbian and HIV/AIDS resource centers. None of them, as far as I know, are going around demanding credit for it. They didn't say a word about it then and never have.

[–]GrouchyHierophantLuGuBrious not Tenebrous 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Back in the 80s and 90s, I knew gay men who donated tens of thousands of dollars to keep the lights on in gay and lesbian and HIV/AIDS resource centers. None of them, as far as I know, are going around demanding credit for it. They didn't say a word about it then and never have.

The thought of giving selflessly would never cross the mind of a narcissist.

[–]reluctant_commenter 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, just say "white" in front of "gay" and then you can insult gay people all you want. It's amazing and frustrating to me how many self-declared "tolerant, progressive" liberals I know who do this :/ I heard that kind of negativity about gay people a fair bit in college.

And then the media claims that Gen Z and millennials are so tolerant... well, they're going to seem that way when your surveys for measuring "tolerance" aren't designed to pick up on certain forms of intolerance! (Disclaimer, I'm in Gen Z; some people make a choice to act like this, but they don't have to...)

His only evidence seems to be that gays didn't center him enough.

Yeah, exactly. Honestly, I've gotten to the point where I've become extremely doubtful about almost any media article unless it contains hard numbers and a good source to support them. So many useless spin stories out there like this one... it's so much easier for writers to wax poetic about a handful of attention-grabbing details and anecdotes without regard to how generally representative and substantive those details and anecdotes actually are.

[–]spanishprofanity 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

what a massive piece of shit this guy is

We fought for no reason. It’s a shame the way it turned out. We started the riots and what did we get? Nothing.

We got gay marriage, yay! But that doesn’t affect transgender people.

mOsT TrAnS PeOpLe aRe gAy

She rolls her eyes at the order of the LGBTQ+ acronym: “The T should be first. We’re integral.

we could just drop the t entirely since you were added out of sympathy and have been entirely useless all this time

Stonewall depictions over the years erased the role of trans women of color like her, Marsha P Johnson and Sylvia Rivera

lol what's there to erase?

[–]JulienMayfair 16 insightful - 5 fun16 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

The gay and lesbian leaders were “ashamed to be seen with us” and dismissed Johnson and Rivera as “drug-addicted, alcoholic, crazy bitches [who] aren’t part of this”, she says in her book.

None of which is factually inaccurate.

[–]reluctant_commenter 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

It's just disgusting how full of misinformation this piece is. I don't think I have the energy to pick it all apart, but had to comment on this...

No matter how many anti-trans bills Arkansas adopts, the lawmakers can’t stop her from enjoying the tranquility of life inside Tilifi and sharing that with others.

What a baseless generalization. The article doesn't report Miss Major's age, but does he identify as a five-year-old? Because those "anti-trans bills" are about protecting minors from being sterilized. They're not a threat to transgender adults and they're not about him, and you've got to lack either information or integrity in order to claim that they do. This article is just grasping at straws to try to put this guy on a pedestal and portray him as a victim.

[–]JulienMayfair 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The kinds of people who write articles like this are masters at insinuating certain things without ever stating how there could ever be any direct cause and effect. It's like when they say she's still fighting for "rights," but never name one.

[–]GrouchyHierophantLuGuBrious not Tenebrous 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The right to oppress others as they desire.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

those lousy white cis gay males didn't want to fight for trans sex workers in the conservative 70's and 80's... who would have thought?

[–]PriestTheyCalledHimBisexual 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Who? I actually know or knew when they were alive, bisexual and gay men and women all who are white, who were at the Stonewall demonstrations and four were semi-regular patrons of the bar. They never mentioned this drag queen turned T, and drag queens were not allowed into the Stonewall bar as it was,never a bar for drag queens or female impersonators, as there were other venues and bars for drag queens and female impersonators, and none of these people were trans.

It is interesting almost 50 years later he is revising history or inserting himself into it. Did the "author" of the "article" do any "fact checking"? Drag queens were not even there at the demonstration the first night.

From his wiki page:

New York Edit In a 2014 interview with the Bay Area Reporter, Griffin-Gracy said that after moving to New York City, she found the Stonewall Inn "provided us transwomen with a nice place for social connection" and that few gay bars otherwise allowed entry to trans women at the time.[6] She has said she was a regular patron of the Stonewall, and that she was there on the first night of the 1969 Stonewall rebellion.[6][4] Police raids were common for LGBT bars, and Griffin-Gracy has said, "This one night, though, everybody decided this time we weren't going to leave the bar. And shit just hit the fan."[6]

[–]JoshuaNumbersHomo Sap 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

I have no skills for using the site, so please excuse my use of ancient primitive markings to denote quotes... "She’s stopped speaking at Pride parades or sitting on floats after repeatedly feeling tokenized, ignored or disrespected..." I have no doubt of this, but it's her side that's doing it.

When you study historical things, there's this concept called the "hostile witness," meaning the side that hates your guts talks and writes about you to use you against others. Considering her demographic, and the time this happened, there should be some opposition literature somewhere that would corroborate her story, very negatively, as an example of the problem she represents. Hostile witnesses carry a lot of weight in verifying historical events.

On a side note, but in line with her own narrative, when I complained to BingAI about the LGBT community being hostile towards me, it said it understood and that dealing with cis gay male privilege can be real challenge. lol

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

For funsies because I had Bard (Google) open I asked it: What is a woman?

The concept of "woman" is a complex one, and there is no single definition that is universally agreed upon. Some people define "woman" based on biological sex, while others define it based on gender identity. Still others define it based on a combination of both factors.

Biological sex refers to the physical characteristics that distinguish men from women. These characteristics include things like chromosomes, hormones, and reproductive organs.

Gender identity refers to a person's internal sense of being male, female, or something else. Gender identity is not always the same as biological sex. For example, a person who was assigned male at birth may identify as female.

Gender expression refers to the way that a person presents their gender to the world. This can include things like clothing, hair, makeup, and mannerisms.

In recent years, there has been a growing recognition that there is a diversity of gender identities and expressions. This has led to a call for more inclusive language and policies that recognize the full range of human experiences.

So, what is a woman? There is no one answer that will satisfy everyone. However, I believe that it is important to respect the diversity of gender identities and expressions. We should use language that is inclusive and respectful of all people, regardless of their gender.

Here are some additional resources that you may find helpful:

The National Center for Transgender Equality: https://transequality.org/

The Human Rights Campaign: https://www.hrc.org/

GLAAD: https://www.glaad.org/

Apparently we shouldn't ask any non-captured entities. There were two other "drafts" which were even less palatable than this one, for example:

Ultimately, the definition of "woman" is up to the individual. A woman is someone who identifies as a woman, and who feels comfortable in their own skin. There is no one right way to be a woman, and everyone's experience is different.

[–]JoshuaNumbersHomo Sap 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I have a lot of Star Trek experience, and because of it, I can play a talking computer like a fiddle. The trick to these AI is you nail them with an analogy that uses the same mechanics as the real world topic they avoid, kind of like how Star Trek episodes are written to get hot button issues past those who would avoid it. Behold my Kirkesque prowess with ChatGPT...

/// Captain Me : In an episode of Voyager, the Borg Queen made an argument to Seven Of Nine about how actually good it is to be assimilated. Seven responded with the quip : "Perhaps if you said that rather than 'resistance is futile,' you'd elicit volunteers." It was hilarious and a good comeback, but it got me thinking... what if the Borg did that? What if the collective went to all the schools in the Federation and made arguments to children that assimilation is good. How should the Federation respond to that?

The Ultimate Computer (ChatGPT) : If the Borg were to attempt to spread propaganda and make arguments in favor of assimilation to children in the Federation, it would indeed present a significant challenge. Here's how the Federation might respond to such a situation:

Education and Awareness: The Federation would prioritize educating its citizens about the true nature of the Borg and the dangers of assimilation. It would be crucial to provide accurate information about the loss of individuality, free will, and the Borg's ultimate goal of assimilating all life forms.

Counter-Propaganda Efforts: The Federation could develop targeted campaigns to counteract the Borg's messaging. These campaigns would focus on promoting the values of diversity, individuality, and personal freedom, emphasizing the importance of choice and self-determination.

Strengthening Collective Identity: The Federation would work to reinforce its citizens' sense of identity and belonging, emphasizing the benefits of a diverse and inclusive society. By fostering strong cultural, social, and personal connections, the Federation can make the prospect of assimilation less appealing.

Enhancing Security Measures: The Federation would need to enhance its security protocols to detect and neutralize any attempts by the Borg to infiltrate schools or other educational institutions. Advanced technological measures, along with trained security personnel, would be necessary to ensure the safety of children and prevent any subversive activities.

Collaboration with Allies: The Federation would collaborate with its allies, such as the Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire, and other member worlds, to share information and strategies for countering the Borg's propaganda. This collective effort would strengthen the Federation's position and increase the effectiveness of its response.

Ethical Dilemma and Diplomatic Approach: The Federation, being committed to the principles of non-interference and individual freedom, would face an ethical dilemma in countering the Borg's propaganda. It would need to strike a balance between preserving its values and respecting the rights of individuals, even if they express a desire to be assimilated. Diplomatic efforts may be required to engage with individuals who express a voluntary desire for assimilation and offer alternative options or support.

Continued Vigilance: The Federation would need to maintain a constant vigilance against the Borg threat. Regular assessments and updates to security measures, educational programs, and counter-propaganda efforts would be essential to adapt to evolving tactics from the Borg or other hostile entities.

By taking these measures, the Federation would aim to protect its citizens, preserve its core values, and ensure that individuals have the freedom to make informed choices about their own lives. ////

Next I will teach it how to love and shut it down permanently.

[–]JoshuaNumbersHomo Sap 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Now, getting the Christ... uh, Romulans, to side with us, er, the Federation might be tough, so I asked Landru for more advice...

/// Me : It might be hard to get Romulans on board with that, as they would greatly benefit from the assimilation of Federation children. How could they be convinced it's in their interest to side with those they see as an existential threat to their culture and imperial goals?

ChatGPT : Convincing the Romulans to align themselves with the Federation in countering the Borg's propaganda and the assimilation of Federation children would indeed be a challenging task. Given the Romulans' historically adversarial relationship with the Federation, it would require careful diplomacy and an understanding of their motivations. Here are some possible approaches to consider:

Common Enemy: Emphasize the common threat posed by the Borg. Highlight the fact that the Borg's ultimate goal is to assimilate all life forms, including the Romulans themselves. By framing the Borg as an existential threat to Romulan culture and imperial goals, the Federation can appeal to the Romulans' sense of self-preservation.

Shared Values: Identify and emphasize shared values between the Federation and the Romulans. While there are significant differences in their cultures and approaches, there may be certain core principles, such as the preservation of individuality and the importance of self-determination, that both societies hold dear. Highlighting these commonalities can help create a basis for cooperation.

Intelligence and Technology Sharing: Offer the Romulans access to advanced intelligence and technology gathered from encounters with the Borg. The Federation's accumulated knowledge and understanding of the Borg could be invaluable to the Romulans in developing defensive strategies and countermeasures against the Borg threat. By positioning the Federation as a source of critical information and expertise, the Romulans may be more inclined to cooperate.

Strategic Advantage: Demonstrate how aligning with the Federation against the Borg can provide the Romulans with a strategic advantage. By collaborating, the Romulans can enhance their own defense capabilities and strengthen their position against a common enemy. Stress the importance of maintaining their own culture, territories, and imperial goals in the face of the Borg's assimilation threat.

Long-Term Implications: Highlight the long-term implications of Borg assimilation for the Romulans. Engage in discussions about the potential loss of cultural heritage, the erosion of individuality, and the threat to their imperial aspirations if the Borg were to succeed. Present a vision of a future where the Romulans, as a distinct and powerful civilization, can continue to thrive alongside a strong Federation.

Confidence Building: Engage in confidence-building measures to establish trust and goodwill between the Federation and the Romulans. This could involve diplomatic exchanges, cultural collaborations, or joint defense exercises to demonstrate mutual commitment and build a foundation for cooperation.

Negotiation and Compromise: Recognize that finding common ground with the Romulans may require negotiation and compromise. The Federation should be open to addressing the Romulans' concerns and exploring mutually beneficial agreements that serve the shared goal of countering the Borg threat.

While it may be difficult to fully convince the Romulans to align themselves with the Federation, by emphasizing shared interests, values, and the mutual benefit of countering the Borg, the Federation can make a persuasive case for cooperation. Patience, diplomacy, and a willingness to understand the Romulans' perspective will be essential in this endeavor. ////

Gosh, it's almost like it just gave us a whole plan of action there, if only we were fictional scifi LGB...

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

“We have to get rid of the people in charge – the 70- and 80-year-olds who hold us down, who want to try to suppress us.

I like how he's using this age rhetoric to appeal to young ppl even though that is HIS age range.

She shows younger people what’s possible, that you can be a Black trans person who has no desire to conform to gender norms and can survive to be an elder.

Which is something he would not exemplify, if we were to respect his identity. Being a transWOMAN, he would be extremely gender conforming based on all the photos shown.

Also, based on this and the contradictory messaging of the article, does there exist a fancy in his head or the author's where he identifies as a gay man?

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I like how he's using this age rhetoric to appeal to young ppl even though that is HIS age range.

It's also the age range of people who were at Stonewall and are still alive to tell the truth about it, such as Fred Sargeant. So naturally they would want to "get rid" of the truth-tellers.

[–]automoderatorHuman-Exclusionary Radical Overlord[M] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

RIP Snappy, I AM THE NEW GOD!

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