“What is a Woman” by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hi loveSloane! Thank you for the unrelated note! 😉

I finished watching “What is a woman”. It was better than I thought it would be and made good case for how nonsense the current trans rights stuff is. The first scene with his son and daughter was so bad and made me feel like it was going to just going to erase gender nonconformity and dysphoria, but they did get discussed some. Scott Newgent was probably my favorite person he interviewed. Overall, it made me feel hopeful like maybe we are getting to the end of this craziness. I hope more people see it. I wish he had interviewed GC feminists, but he is a conservative and that would go against blaming feminists for this I guess.

“What is a Woman” by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Glad it addresses important thing! I may try to watch it this weekend. Do you have the link you could DM me?

“What is a Woman” by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve thought about watching it, but it’s hard to get past it being from Matt Walsh. He doesn’t care about women rights at all. Literally was celebrating the leaked ruling taking away rights to control our bodies. Maybe I’ll get the nerve eventually if I can do it without giving him money.

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry if I misunderstood your intention… I haven’t read the whole thread. Yes, no surgery can change your sex. I didn’t realize derrple was thinking that. Literally this bottom surgery uses different parts to create things and it doesn’t function the same way other than for the basic sexual stuff and even then I’m sure it’s different. I still have zero idea what any of that is like for females and I know it’s not the same. It important to be honest about that and it’s sad to read when people pretend it is.

Edit: I see you deleted. I truly hope this wasn’t because of my reply. If you read this, I hope you will reconsider. Your voice here, especially as a desister, is really important. Take care!

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you want to live in fear? I want to be mostly stealth too, but the genie isn't going back into the bottle I'm afraid. I'd rather have modern recognition and protections and quietly live my life on top of that.

I don’t feel like I have a choice totally, but I try not to think about it. Even though I don’t think there is much for fear about rights, I still wouldn’t want to be out because it would just different after that and I like being a normal woman (socially, obviously not biologically). Basic rights for me already existed prior to any of this push I feel like. 20 years ago you could still get treatment and change your identification. How is this push helping us?

I mean yeah, the right to transition should be for everyone, not just trans people, if they really want it. The right to exogenous hormones should be universal imo. And even the right to live a private life and not have your genitalia revealed to anyone who asks is not just for trans people.

Wow! That is not what I meant. I feel we need more gatekeeping, not less. People shouldn’t be getting these treatments without lots of counseling the ruling out other issues. I’m not for informed consent or self-medicating or any of that. Anyone who would go through any of this without chronic untreatable severe gender dysphoria has something else majorly wrong with them or is a creep who should be kept away from others.

I don't think hiding is a great longterm strategy. We can't rely forever on being in the shadows. We need to stand up and say that we aren't going away and that we won't let anyone take transition from us, if we want to stand a chance.

There was no talk of taking anything away from us until this push. I feel like that is the reason it is happening. If we had just kept quiet we’d still be just quietly transitioning and going on with life.

Less negative than doing nothing? I'd be so much more miserable without HRT.

Transition was very positive for me and I don’t know if I’d be alive without it, but that doesn’t mean I think it right for other people or something I would promote. It has a lot of downsides. If someone can exist with their natural body, they should do that. If they can’t, then they’ll figure that out themselves. They don’t need my permission.

if my existence as trans is a problem for cis people, then they better deal with it. because there's nothing wrong with being who we are.

I really wish I could feel this, genuinely, I wish I could see this the way you do.

I think it heralds a new era of greater body modification and autonomy, so I don't really see it as a problem exactly idk.

Oh dear… you really lose me with the trans humanism stuff.

Cuz it kinda sucks...also I didn't know what trans people were until I was nearly an adult. Nowadays people are more likely to know transition is an option before they personally feel it's too late. The bar for them to decide to transition is thus lower.

This is just so hard to I understand for me and I promise I’m not trying to be difficult... I feel like literally you do this when it is the only way you can have a functioning life, not cuz something kinda sucks. People don’t appreciate the trauma some of us experienced. It just seems so trivializing that it’s something someone could just decide to do.

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve known u/derrple for a few years since the old debate sub. They’ve already made permanent decisions and probably don’t agree with me on much anyway in much anyway. I’m probably not the best person to talk someone out of surgery either because it was the right choice for me. It helped my life immensely. I doubt I would happily married with family now if I hadn’t done that. That doesn’t mean it would be right for most people or their couldn’t be complications and it’s probably better if you could cope with natural genitals because surgery isn’t perfect, but if you can’t it helps a lot and can make dating much easier. I know no one wants hear that, but it was true for me…

Mother Warns of Influence of Pornography on Gender Identity Among Youth by NoMorePatriarchy in GenderCritical

[–]peakingatthemoment 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like grooming is definitely happens, but I'm less convinced about pornography being a huge factor in trans identity. I understand why radical feminists in particular want to focus on that, but I just haven't heard many detransitioners say that. Anime seems like it is connected though just because of how many trans identified people now are so into it. Yaoi too.

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nice to see you!

No, it's not.

I feel like more people being trans has been bad. It was better imo when we just mocked us with jokes and most people thought they never met one of us. I don't want us to have the attention. I just want to quietly live like I have. Also, more people transitioning isn't good because transition isn't the best.

We have a right to be trans and transition, I'm done thinking being trans is a miserable or negative situation, it isn't.

We don't need any special rights to be trans. If HRT didn't exist I would be trying to live the same life, just maybe not as well. Obviously, it helped that hormones and surgery existed, but I don't think it's possible to take those things away. I feel if anything putting all this attention to us puts those things more at risk.

I feel like being trans in the way I am trans is negative because I can't have a baby and have to take medication forever. If you don't think that is negative, then we just disagree.

She called all of us, happily transitioned or not, detransitioned or not, a problem to a sane world. Idk how you can possibly spin that.

Maybe this is my internalized transphobia (lol), but I feel like we are a problem! I understand why she says that. The only way someone like me fits is just by being under the radar. Being trans means I don't fit otherwise and I've accepted that.

The number of documented lgb people has gone up over time as well too.

Yes, it has, but the growth in the number of trans people has just been so huge. I literally remember when it was 1/20,0000. They are all over the place now. I don't think you can possibly compare it to increasing LGB people.

With greater access to transition comes less of a reason to stay in the closet for many. Nothing more.

I feel like it you had a choice to stay in the closet, I sort of feel like you aren't trans... If you could literally fit into the world as your sex why not do that. It just seems so much easier...

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Glad there is some activity! Nice to see the Derrple came by!

Wanting fewer people to be trans seems like a good thing. I just feel like being trans isn’t the best situation and if someone has the choice not to be, they should do that. That was how I interpreted it. The numbers of trans people have just exploded in the last decade or so and it’s hard to believe that is just something happening naturally, especially with social media playing the role it does.

I feel like she was very empathetic in the clip and not at all against people like me. I wonder how many people who are freaking out didn’t watch it…

Wpath and the eunuch archives by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like WPATH has been bad for awhile. This doesn’t surprise me at all sadly.

Should GC feminists stop associating with conservatives on topics in which they’re interests are aligned? by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gender critical feminism has a relationship with masculinity that defines it's audience.

What do you mean by this? I do feel like many Rad Fems are super anti femininity and feel like it only exists to keep women oppressed.

QT: Oli London (a British man) has come out as a "Korean woman". Can you explain how being "transgender" is any different than being "transracial"? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's true that there is no a medical condition equivalent to gender dysphoria, but I'll argue that is because anti-racism groups have been more successful in arguing against "transracialism" than feminists have been in arguing against "transgenderism".

Thanks for replying! Do you think there actually is a “race dysphoria” condition? I guess I view gender dysphoria differently because it’s something that I know is real. I feel like someone could believe that and not necessarily believe in trans ideology though. It could just be a mental illness that should be treated with therapy or that the person could be taught to live with.

QT: Oli London (a British man) has come out as a "Korean woman". Can you explain how being "transgender" is any different than being "transracial"? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like Oli London and people like that are just super addicted to plastic surgery and body modification. I remember reading on the old GC subreddit about other people (usually men) like that who were super into body modification and then became trans. It’s hard to take any of it seriously.

I’m not QT, but since no one is responding I will try to play the devil's advocate. Being transgender is different than being transracial because it is a diagnosed condition. When I was diagnosed, it was called gender identity disorder. It is a real issue that some people experience. Transracialism isn’t like that that we know of.

GC: How do you feel about out trans people choosing to become parents? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for defending trans people being parents! Sorry the people on Ovarit were so hostile to that.

I don’t think trans people are uniquely unfit to be parents or something like that. There are lot of non-trans people who aren’t great parents, but still have the right to reproduce if they choose to and trans people can be good parents. I made a thread about my own adoption stuff awhile ago that some interesting discussion in it I feel like.

https://saidit.net/s/GCdebatesQT/comments/77ke/both_disclosure_around_adoption/

It’s confusing about the sex dysphoria aspects with trans people who reproduce traditionally. I know it’s something I never could have done with my dysphoria (also orientation lol). Anyway, trans is broader now and doesn’t just include people with that dysphoria.

Hopefully we can get to a world where kids aren’t being sterilized. I’m not sure how much I feel like peoples autonomy should be restricted that way. Reproductive capability such an important thing and may not matter to you when you are young, but can mean a lot later. Assuming I had the ability before, I had a surgery when I was 18 that made it no longer possible and I feel like that wasn’t old enough to appreciate what that meant (even if it never would have worked for me, it’s sad to be a biological dead end). Kids would be even less likely to understand and, if you don’t experience puberty, I don’t even know if you fully develop a sexuality. We are still growing and the things we want can change. I don’t know the perfect solution. :(

[Both] What do you think of "The DIY HRT Directory"? Good or bad? by ISaidWhatISaid in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That seems pretty bad, but it isn’t surprising with all the anti-gatekeeping attitudes and so many current transitioners being super online. I’ve heard of people self-medicating before and it is not a good idea. American healthcare should be better, but it shouldn’t be used as an excuse to put yourself in danger. Like BiR said, don’t post the link.

To what extent does the activism of AGP transsexuals shape transsexual politics? by nausicaa in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So, I feel like AGPs control a lot and I’m going to say why, but I also want to say that is was never a trans activist in any way and I haven’t really been in trans communities in a long time, so my perspective is limited. That said, AGPs seemed like the dominant group in nearly any trans space I was in. I feel like it’s part of what makes trans spaces really toxic, especially for HSTS types.

First, AGPs are just much more common of the types so the things that are important to them are what get focused on. I feel like they are much more hardline about, sports, childhood transitions and wanting more people to be trans (I don’t know if that’s the right way to say it), than people like me are. I don’t know many people like me though so maybe that’s most trans people. I feel like maybe it’s wanting to live vicariously, like they are depressed and feel like there lives would have been better if they transitioned sooner so they want to see other people transition. It’s weird. To me, transitioning is like the best of a series of bad choices available at times, but never something you should want for someone. It’s not the best.

Second, trans groups and, I assume, trans activism ends up being mostly people who can’t pass or fit in in regular society. I feel like if you pass and are able to just exist being seen as your sex, you just would rather do that without having to deal with any trans stuff for the most part. That’s how I feel, at least, so most people in those groups can’t fit in so they feel like they need to make the world change. AGPs don’t tend to fit in as well or pass as well, regardless of age, just because of not being naturally feminine (I know someone people will say that isn’t a thing, but it tends to be for HSTS types).

Finally, most of the time they are just more aggressive and assertive too. Part of this could be that many or older and just have navigated the world as men more. They also may have experience more of that typical more toxic socialization because they are straight. I’m sure they are aggressive HSTS too, but it seems like less.

Does this make sense?

GC: Why don't you get your gender identity legally changed? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m not sure what you mean by changing your gender identity but changing your gender legally would create all sort of problems for you I feel like. It don’t really know what is involved with it now, but it used to require be a lot of work too with needing letters from doctors and surgeons. I’m sure with the push for self-ID, it is probably much simpler, but it stills seems like it would be super disruptive to do it just to make a point.

What do you think about what’s happening in Texas by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My understanding was that most ROGD teens are opposite-sex attracted. Part of what was unusual about the trans-identified peer groups in Litman’s original study is that they weren’t of the GNC lesbian type that was typical previously more for trans identification in females. I’m sure some ROGD teens could be lesbians, but it wasn’t my impression it was most. I don’t mean to say at all that I think the motivations or risks at the same as males appropriating lesbian identities, but it doesn’t make sense to me to say there isn’t any appropriation of gay male identities. There are other factors too so I’m not saying that as like it’s something super malicious they are doing, but it feels like we have to acknowledge that a little.

What do you think about what’s happening in Texas by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like ROGD teen girls are very much deserving of sympathy and I would not agree with most of what Snow said, but my understanding is ROGD types are often trying to appropriate gay male identities, even if it’s often through a super distorted lens (like Yaoi for instance). The underlying reasons for it are different than AGPs appropriating lesbian identities for instance, but everything I’ve read about ROGD makes me think that is a part of it often times. Am I wrong?

What do you think about what’s happening in Texas by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like I agree with what it is trying to address, but it doesn’t seem right for the state to go after parents who are probably meaning well and just listening to advice about how to best help their child. Some of them probably are genuinely bad people or living out something through their children, but not most. We should move to care standards that are more like what Sweden recently did, but this seems like overreach to me. It makes me wonder if my parents would have been targeted under this since I socially transitioned and received hormone treatment as a minor.

Trans activism seems largely to blame for laws like this to me though. Years ago, some younger trans people would quietly get treatment and live their lives, but TRAs choose to turn this into such a political issue I feel like. I know that conservatives are pushing it now, but I feel like it’s a reaction to how much this is being pushed rather than something that would have happened anyway. I feel like conditions were better for transsexuals during Bush rather whatever nonsense moment this is. I don’t know why TRAs felt like the world needed to change. It didn’t. We were fine. We didn’t need “cis”, the pronoun nonsense, males in women’s sports, trans toddlers, or all these creeps coming out as trans. This backlash is well-deserved unfortunately.

What are your thoughts? Dementia care advice for transgender patients by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hi Fleurista, sorry I’ve been so slow to respond! This is an interesting topic!

Do you think trans people tend to be more inflexible in thinking and openness to new experiences overall than non-trans people? Do you think maybe only certain types of trans people or people with trans identities do?

I don’t really know. I feel like some trans people who are very gender focused might be more inflexible in their thinking. It probably isn’t like one group of trans people who could be like that though. A lot of us may have experienced being raised with really traditional ideas about gender and being trans doesn’t necessarily break those for you. I feel like other things in life can, but if you just think you are the wrong sex that’s more of a reinforcement than breaking them down. I’d don’t really know that many trans people well enough to know though. A lot of people are inflexible or lack openness to new things in general, so it’s hard to know if trans people would be better or worse overall.

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Genitalia is genitalia, regardless if it's a penis, vagina or something ambiguous.

This is super surprising to me. Is this really how you feel? Having a penis in a space where I am undressed or changing clothes would make me very uncomfortable. Has it happened to you? Also, how would the trans person be comfortable doing that? I have some experience with this because I had a penis for part of my life. Never in a million years would I have felt comfortable exposing it to someone, anyone, even sexual partners if I could avoid it. This is because I had dysphoria and it made me tremendously uncomfortable being there to the point I could become physically sick if I had to expose myself, even at a doctor’s for instance. Why is this person seemingly fine exposing themselves this way, as a trans person? I guess I do feel like if you aren’t dysphoric then, whatever is happening with you is something I guess, but you aren’t trans and shouldn’t be hiding behind that. It just seems like creeping to me.

What are your thoughts? Dementia care advice for transgender patients by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Saw this on Ovarit and thought it might be an interesting topic. There was another article on this topic a few years ago.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1363460719876835

It’s a weird thing to think about. I wish there was more information about how old people were when they transitioned or what their background was. I will be old someday and I feel like like this wouldn’t happen, but, the fact it is happening for some people, really should make anyone question just accepting these identities as innate.

This is also worrying! https://www.alz.org/aaic/releases_2021/transgender-adults-cognition.asp#:~:text=However%2C%20it%20is%20known%20that,are%20also%20linked%20to%20an

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hi Worried, it definitely seems like it is dying. I miss having more activity too. I felt like we were doing well for awhile keeping it going, but there just aren’t really any active QT now. If anyone is on Reddit who can post in a trans space to let people know about this sub, that could help. It will get deleted, but maybe a few people would see it.

I feel like maybe this space has just become so GC dominated that it would be hard for someone who is QT to last. It might be overwhelming or intimidating to have so many people criticize you and your ideas without having anyone support you. Genderbender has been defending her ideas in some threads, but it must be hard to be so outnumbered.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hi MT! My choice to talk about what I did isn’t because don’t see or don’t agree with the GC view on the main focus of this thread, which is male trans people violating women’s boundaries. It’s a huge issue and I considered prefacing what I said to agree with the point Houseplant was making, but decided not to. I want to try and comment in a way that might create discussion rather than just agreeing with the GC posters. I feel like it’s better to focus on any point of disagreement or issue that isn’t getting discussed rather than just agreeing with everyone.

To be clear though, women don’t owe male trans people any discomfort, fear, or risk of harm. “Trans rights” and everything that goes with them are things I am against. I guess the only exception would be if there was discomfort from seeing a visibly trans or GNC person in a public place like a restaurant or the market, who is just minding their business and not using any private space. That would just be something everyone needs to tolerate because other people exist in the world and doesn’t really have anything to do with “trans rights.” This could be said of other things that might make someone uncomfortable. For example, I feel especially uncomfortable with white men or boys with certain types of southern U.S. accents. When I was a child, there was trauma that happened at the hands of boys who talked that way. That doesn’t mean that those people can’t go places in the world, I just have to cope with feeling that way.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t agree that it is harassment to calmly question a male presence, or to expect that males will afford a modicum of respect for female rights and spaces.

That isn’t harassment to me either. When I say, “existing in the world” I don’t mean in sex-segregated or private spaces.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You should leave people alone and not harass them. I feel like if someone is gender nonconforming or visibly trans, they should be able to go through their life without being harmed. It doesn’t mean that anyone has to use certain words or allow them to use sex segregated spaces (if that’s something they want), but they shouldn’t be harassed or harmed for just existing in the world. We all deserve at least that much from strangers I feel like.

Both: How do you feel about the terms "female man", "male man", "female woman", and "male woman"? by comradeconradical in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m not sure about always needing treatment based on sex, it just doesn’t seem like that is how it is treated. At the very least, someone like me would have an unusual body fat ratio, tissue distribution, hormonal profile, and genitals compared to most male people. That’s why I feel like it’s important someone to have all the information. Assuming I was female might be bad and that’s why I tell people and would want them to know if I was unconscious, but I feel like someone just giving treatments targeting an average male person would probably be bad too.

Taking exogenous hormones won't make someone's body develop more like the opposite sex

That just isn’t true. They don’t change sex, but they effect how your body develops, if you take them when you are still developing. Most of the changes that happen during puberty are because of large quantities of sex hormones. You can still believe that "gender affirming treatment" causes more problems than it solves (and it probably does many times, it’s probably how the person sees it, but it isn’t without problems), but I don’t know what to say to the other part.

Both: How do you feel about the terms "female man", "male man", "female woman", and "male woman"? by comradeconradical in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hi MT! Hope you had a wonderful holiday and happy new year! Sorry I’m so low in responding to this! I’m not sure why it doesn’t come up more in the trans community. Maybe they just don’t think about the long term very much.

There also just isn’t a lot of research about trans bodies and how they respond to things. Is a male body that’s developed with high estrogen or a female body that’s developed with high testosterone need treatment based on sex rather than how it’s developed? There are obvious things like pregnancy or prostate problems that could be ruled out for sex, but for dosage requirements or disease risks, I’m just not sure if it has been studied enough. I feel often speaking to my doctors that they don’t quite understand my body or what to expect. People who advocate for it act like the long-term medical effects are well understood, but I don’t think they are.

I have thought about the being unconscious and not able to explain. There is medical information on my Apple watch that can be access if I am unconscious. Maybe my partner would be there or he could explain my medical history. I’m not sure how much it matters though other than like pregnancy because I feel like they just don’t know that much. I feel like, in most cases, even if they knew the history I’d probably be treated similar to female person of my height and body weight. I don’t thing medical people are trained to do any different or would know what that different thing should be.

Announcement: new mod by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like saying GCDebatesQT in any remotely trans space would get it removed. They were all so happy when we were banned. :(

We could still try though. Even if it only stays up a little while, someone might choose to come.

QT: Why TM don't mind using women's spaces when it suits them? And why TW don't follow their example? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Go to the bathroom you look like you're supposed to use, don't use changing rooms or any other more intimate women's spaces, the world will continue to rotate.

I still feel like it’s not totally right, but I appreciate it. :)

QT: Why TM don't mind using women's spaces when it suits them? And why TW don't follow their example? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Obligatory not QT, but trans. I feel like there could be a few different answers. As u/Beris was saying, it just might not be as safe and men could be more likely to be upset by your presence. Maybe trans males might feel less sense of community or kinship with men/boys from growing up than trans females might feel with women/girls. I don’t know that for sure, but I feel like it would explain a lot. There is a part of just respecting boundaries less too, especially in instances where a person is obviously male. Females are socialized to care more about others feelings and males often times aren’t. I know GC isn’t happy any trans males using women’s bathroom, but if you pass, it is usually less disruptive in public to use the bathroom that matches how you look.

"FLEURISTA" presents: Thank You- A Retrospective of Commonality, Connection & Changing Minds (Art exhibition featuring GCdebatesQT) by Fleurista in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Congratulations and thank you for sharing! I hope your opening went well! :)

Both: How do you feel about the terms "female man", "male man", "female woman", and "male woman"? by comradeconradical in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t see any point to inclusive language either. I assume it’s to spare the feelings of trans people who don’t pass, but that hardly seems like a reason to change words for the entire population. Also, it’s hard to understand why someone would want to go through life with other people just pretending for them to make them feel better. It seems like every interaction would be so fake. It becomes harder to use the language too in a way that makes sense.

I can’t speak for everyone, but the medical records of mine I’ve seen don’t indicate it. That said, I don’t think my childhood medical records weren really carried forward and I’ve been legally that way for a very long time, so it might be different for other people. My primary care doctor and anyone else I see regularly know my history, but I expect to have to explain if I see someone new. I don’t think the medical records system is really designed to deal with legal sex change.

Both: How do you feel about the terms "female man", "male man", "female woman", and "male woman"? by comradeconradical in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For me personally, that usually isn’t enough though and I have to explain more. If I tell a medical person that I’m trans, they usually think I’m going the opposite way than I did. I’m not sure if other trans people have this problem. It’s always possible to explain, but it’s become harder since male/female started being seen as gender words too. Even saying I’m male can give opposite meaning and I don’t like having to say assigned at birth because it is nonsense. :(

Both: How do you feel about the terms "female man", "male man", "female woman", and "male woman"? by comradeconradical in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m sure if there can be much agreement because many QT sees man/woman and male/female as gender words and GC sees man/woman and male/female as sex words. Years ago no one would say trans female to refer to a trans natal male, but you hear things like that now. I would like it if we could keep male and female only as sex words. It’s possible to be a man or a woman in a social sense while not actually being that male or a female, although I know people may disagree on that. I feel like the assigned sex a birth stuff is really confusing (and also inaccurate). I don’t that means that TM are going to start referring to themselves as female men or vice versa, but at least it might make things simpler for times it does matter, like at the doctor’s office.

QT: Why should "gender identity" be enshrined in law when you can't even define it? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m not sure if there is anyone active who believes this should happen to defend it. :(

what is "social dysphoria"? by ywnbawfan2 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like social dysphoria is discomfort comes from existing in the world being seen as your sex. Some of it is connected to physical dysphoria because it might remind you that your body isn’t what you feel like it’s supposed to be. If you have deep body issues, it can just make them worse. This is probably like the official truscum answer lol.

I don’t think it’s totally separate from gender norms though because those get imposed on you because of your apparent sex too. If you aren’t what people expect for someone of your sex, you can suffer a lot of harassment and people aren’t comfortable with you. Especially if you ever passed as the other sex, you might know that so many things about you that cause problems for you aren’t problems if people see you as the other sex because you fit better. It’s not fair or right that roles are imposed on us, especially children, but it’s still how it is many times and it’s really hard to not fit like that. You can’t even feel safe if that’s how people are seeing you. Not that their aren’t safety concerns the other way too, so it may just be because of trauma. Dismantling gender norms would help with this type of social dysphoria at least. I hope this made sense!

Both: What do you think of Gender Critical Coming Out Day? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve thought about making a twitter account to advocate for GC ideas, but I’m afraid to come out of my real-life social media. There is a TW and female non-binary person working at my company both of whom might say I was making them feel unsafe and try to get me fired. My company is also very pro-LGBTQ+ and so it might be seen as hurting the company’s image. 😣

Both: What do you think of Gender Critical Coming Out Day? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Hi Worried! Thanks for sharing! It seems like a neat idea.

The list of suggestions is helpful. I don’t know if I will come out to anyone. Not listing pronouns in my bio or email signature, against our company’s guidance, is the only public thing I do in support I guess, but I’ve expressed my issues with the trans movement to my partner and some of my family.

QT: Do you regret any part of your medical transition? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t know if I have regrets exactly. My life is better than I ever thought it could be. I wish I could reproduce though. It probably more like wishing I could give my husband a baby naturally though more than anything that could have really happened if I hadn’t transitioned. The decisions that affected fertility happened when I was so young though and by the time I was 18, there wasn’t any going back. It didn’t matter to me at the time and I don’t see how it could have worked if I magically still had that ability, but it hurts to know you aren’t able too ever, even if it wouldn’t have been possible anyway. Maybe I just want to universe to be different and it isn’t rational, idk. It’s not like I ever been able to have a baby biologically with a man. It’s probably just wishing for impossible things.

Both: Where do you see the gender wars in 10 years? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just really hope people get bored with it or the culture moves on. People are super interested in it and I wish they weren’t. I feel like the current moment is bizarre in how many people are identifying as trans. It’s like 100x more than 20 years ago, and I don’t even think that’s an exaggeration. Maybe GC views will gain more acceptance and they’ll be a stronger force to push back against it. That would better to me, but I’d rather everyone just stop caring and we went back to sanity. Transition shouldn’t be paid for by insurance and it’s no one’s job to validate anyone’s identity. Passing trans people in opposite sex spaces can’t be avoided, but we should do something about prisons and sports.

Qt/tra, how does identity form? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sometimes identity doesn’t come from something that makes sense, but it could still be there. I realize it must be really funny to think about for someone who hasn’t experienced that type of identity though. I’m not saying it’s a “true identity” necessarily, but someone could still experience themselves that way.

Tra/qt how is ‘examine your genital preference’ not homosexual conversion therapy? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Aren’t HSTS TW more likely to be subject to violence though? I feel like I’ve heard about it a lot more often when stories of murders come out. Considering there are many more AGPs, shouldn’t it be the opposite if it was anywhere near balanced? The numerous 30-something computer programmer types act like they are at risk, but I don’t think they really are.

Thanks for sharing about the prison studies! HSTS being protected and not wanting to transfer in prison feels right to me.

People are totally uninformed about how most trans people actually are if they don’t have personal experience. I tried to explain to my husband awhile back that most transwomen are attracted to women and he had a hard time grasping it. Public opinion might change about self-ID and other nonsense when understand what it actually is…

Tra/qt how is ‘examine your genital preference’ not homosexual conversion therapy? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Only a small minority of transwomen are sexually attracted to other males.

I agree with that it isn’t like a big group of transwomen, but I feel like it is the group that actually experiences violence. I feel like that’s HP was explaining. Those other groups of transwomen talk about the violence like it could happen to them, but they aren’t at risk. Obviously male violence can come from circumstances other than stealthing though.

Both: Is gender dysphoria a mental illness? & Is being trans a mental illness? by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing! That makes sense about gender dysphoria. I guess I probably see trans as more separate from gender ideology or beliefs about transgenderism. Do you think the identity could be because of a mental illness, or do people choose that identity/belief system?

Identity by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like this is a really good description. Thank you for taking the time to write it!!

The whole topic makes me sad to think about. I feel like you just grew up in environment where gender nonconformity was more recognized and accepted than I did. I know now as an adult that boys can be like I was and girls can like more rough and tumble things and none those things aren’t natural parts of being a boy or a girl, but I raised to believe they were before I can remember it. If someone wasn’t like that, they were wrong. Maybe it is mental illness to see yourself as another sex, but, if it developed, it wasn’t a conscious choice, and you don’t want to be wrong to the adults around you. You have to make sense of it somehow. You don’t know it’s sexism and homophobia. You think it’s just how the world is and believing your a girl in some metaphysical ways explains how you can exist when you can’t imagine a world outside the one your parents and community have laid out for you. I don’t know totally know what is caused me to be how I am, but it makes the most sense to me. Once I stopped believing that being “born in the wrong body” was real I’ve tried to explain it to myself. None of it matters I guess, but I wish I could know. I want little girls and boys to be taught from birth that they are fine just how they are and to not feel like they have to be one way.

New rule announcement by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If someone is behaving inappropriately, mods can still get involved.

New rule announcement by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment[M] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like, similar to misgendering rules, it should be about users and not general statements. I feel if we made it about general statements, we’d have to make misgendering rules that way too to be consistent and I don’t think we should do that. Hopefully, everyone can deal with the occasional QT user using “cis” in a general way. I still think we should discourage any use and that is why I left the language in the sidebar very general.

Part of what we debate is whether is man/woman is a gender word or sex words. Rules shouldn’t be based on seeing that only one way.

New rule announcement by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment[M] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like, similar to misgendering rules, it should be about users and not general statements. I feel if we made it about general statements, we’d have to make misgendering rules that way too to be consistent and I don’t think we should do that. Hopefully, everyone can deal with the occasional QT user using “cis” in a general way. I still think we should discourage any use and that is why I left the language in the sidebar very general.

Identity by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m not sure if my identity is the same as a female identity or what that would be like. I can never experience the world as anything or anyone other than myself. When I talk about identity or sense of self, I mean how I see or think of myself. It’s not meant to be a factual statement about me being something (other than maybe a transsexual). It’s just trying to explain how that type of identity develops or could develop. I don’t think it can be totally explained logically because when/if I came to my sense of self, it wouldn’t be through any conscious logic, I was a child. I was hurting and struggling to fit into a world where it didn’t feel like I fit.

Identity by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Being a woman or man or female or male is more than an identity, it’s a physical reality, but someone can still have or develop the identity I feel like.

When I was little, I felt really strongly that I was a girl inside and was supposed to be one. Looking back, it seems like it was because my behaviors and interests that were labeled as feminine and I felt closer to girls. They were always my friends and we usually liked the same things. My parents would try to create situations where I would become friends with boys, but I didn’t like it and the boy usually wouldn’t want to play with me either. It was more confusing later when I started having feelings towards boys. Like, as an adult you can look back and be like this was just a effeminate gay child, but when you are a child you don’t understand things like stereotypes and, if you aren’t shown ways to be yourself and be a boy, the way you see yourself to make sense of it would just get stronger and stronger. I feel like trans identity for children might be more likely to develop for children who are raised religious and/or with strict ideas about gender. By the time a parent gets that child to a therapist, even if, as in my case, the therapist didn’t affirm the identity, I feel like it’s too late to really have any chance of shaking the sense of self. Or maybe the stubborn ones become transsexuals and that’s why we do. Maybe there are 9 other boys who go through the same thing and just become gay men. I don’t know, I’m just thinking out loud about it. I don’t know all the answers. I think the trans adults are more confusing because adults know more, but I don’t feel like I can say because I’d really just be speculating.

New rule announcement by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment[M] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you BiologyIsReal! I don’t expect we will be aggressive with this, especially if someone is new here. Also, it is fine to refer to yourself as cis or cisgender if that is how you identify, just don’t label others.

QT/Trans: What do the language changes actually accomplish? by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Totally! If anything declaring pronouns should itself be invalidating, yet people seem to want to do it and ask others to.

QT/Trans: What do the language changes actually accomplish? by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It makes more sense to argue why you fit the definition as it exists than to try to redefine it. It just seems like the redefining makes it obvious why it’s happening and makes it pointless.

This is really great point and something that confuses me too. If you have to try to convince people to change the word so you can me a part of it it seems like admitting that you aren’t naturally.

So if the issue is the association with your sex/gender or the fact that you are excluded from actual issues relevant to the sex you wish you were- what’s the point? Further, if you’re trans, why do you want the word "woman" to include male people (or the reverse for tm), if You don’t want to be seen as male at all?

None of the language stuff matters to me, as a trans person, because I’m not seen as a part of that group, but it does matter to me because it hurts women I feel like. I also don’t like being asked to list/state my pronouns places and it’s getting more and more difficult not to. If people want to have preferred pronouns, that is fine, but the rest of us shouldn’t be forced to participate in normalizing it I feel like. Same with "menstruators, chest feeders, uterus havers". I’m so over it.

Both: How would you define my sexual orientation? by theytookourjerbs in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would think lesbian. Maybe if you were with a super passing ftm, you might get read as straight, but based on the type you describe it doesn’t sound like that wouldn’t happen lol.

GC: Are men entitled to male-only spaces? by womanual in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. Even if safety isn’t the issue, men still have a need for privacy I feel like.

Let's vote on Language by Porcelain_Quetzal in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment[M] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hi u/Porcelain_Quetzal! In my view, u/BiologyIsReal has just been enforcing rules and doing it really wonderfully. :)

My 2 cents: I feel like using the words that make up TIM/TIF is not at all the same as using the slurs themselves. The reason GC changed from using MTT/FTT is because TIM/TIF sound like names (misgendering ones). If you write out the words, it isn’t the same. I don’t feel like spelling out TERF would be the same as saying the slur either.

I just worry you might be using your position here to advocate against things that bother you in particular and I feel like it’s super important we stay neutral. I don’t like “trans identified x” and I don’t feel like it describes me or how I think about transness, but that doesn’t mean that people who see it as an identity can’t have the words to express that.

Are you religious? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. No
  2. I was raised by conservative Baptist parents. I can’t remember exactly when I stopped believing it, but I did and I felt bad about it and that I was disappointing them.
  3. I do sometimes wonder if being raised in a conservative and religious environment that made me feel wrong contributed to my cross-sex identification, but there isn’t any way to know and even if it did, I’m still me and I can’t make myself someone else.
  4. To me, they don’t really feel similar, but I understand some similarities when people describe them. I feel like to can seem similar to religion if the focus is believing that everyone has a gender identity that no one can see. Subjective identities shouldn’t matter to other people and the whole push to treat people based on them is really strange. I don’t feel like identities are the important part though so my beliefs aren’t similar to religious ones I don’t think. I think more about existing in the world and feel like it’s wrong demand anything from anyone based on an identity that they may not believe in or care about.

All: If you were put in charge of deciding policies surrounding sex/gender identity in your state/province/country/whatever, what would you implement? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Okay, that makes sense! Gender is confusing and I can understand not liking it as part of language, especially if it’s coming from outside. I feel like we need some way to talk about sex stereotypes or roles assigned to people based on sex, but gender is used so many different ways maybe it’s not the best way to do it. I’m a native English speaker so how I think about it is probably shaped by that, but what do you feel like good ways are for discussing those things without words like gender?

Awards Shows by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like legal sex change has probably existed in one way or another forever. Before there was really a process, you could get just a judge to issue a court order to take to vital records. Even if that wasn’t possible, getting passable documents was probably much easier too or using something someone made to obtain legal documents. Employment would have been massively easier even if you couldn’t do a legal sex change because everything was so much less connected. You didn’t even need to complete an I9. I was really talking more about the 60s than the old west, although I feel like passing transmen probably existed then and possibly transwomen too, although not ones who would pass by modern standards.

Awards Shows by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like there were probably some stealth transwomen by the 60s and I know there were stealth transmen going back way before that. Because of stealth, we could exist in times where there was massive hostility towards us without it ruining our lives. I don’t think it’s good casting though unless that is the story that they are trying to tell. I feel like trans people for me sort of take me out of the story unless it is about that because I notice and I can’t unnoticed it, if that makes sense lol.

All: If you were put in charge of deciding policies surrounding sex/gender identity in your state/province/country/whatever, what would you implement? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Amend laws and policies that use the phrase “gender based violence” to something that reflect sexism and misogyny are sex-based.

I have to push back a little bit on the misogyny part. I understand that misogyny is intended to be sex based, and maybe it’s okay to define it that way legally, but if someone is believed to be female, they will experience misogyny (even if it’s misplaced). I’ve experienced extremely overt and less overt misogyny many many times over the years and I feel like it’s just a nonsense belief to say that doesn’t happen because of trait that isn’t visible to the men to perpetuate it. I’ve experience too much in my life to be convinced otherwise. It shapes my life. I do think it’s only stealth transwomen who experience it and declaring yourself a woman isn’t going to make that happen. Visibly or out transwomen are either treated with hostility or (more often where I am) like super special males who everyone changes their language for and showers with compliments to help them feel better.

I agree with most of the other things you said, especially moving to the Nordic model.

Both: Are sexual stereotypes about men and women in the bedroom true? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry you got pulled into this Worried... ☹️

I’m starting to feel like this is more about them and their issues than any of us. I probably should have just not replied.

Both: Are sexual stereotypes about men and women in the bedroom true? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because I consistently see male trans people and gay men use it to imply that it gives them an understanding of female sexuality, or makes them more like "girls".

I would engage with someone who believes that then.

I do despise the logic they employ, but if you don't stand by them, then I don't take issue with you personally.

Everything I said was consistent with my original comment.

Both: Are sexual stereotypes about men and women in the bedroom true? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So, the first paragraph was more the one about my sexuality being like female sexuality, but even then I didn’t say it was exactly the same. I couldn’t know that because I’m not female, but I just feel like I have a lot in common with my friends. It’s just trying to compare what we like.

I don’t know why you are so stuck on anal sex. I rarely have anal sex and it’s not the only way I can be penetrated. Hopefully I don’t have to spell this out for you, but there is another option and it usually feels better anyway.

I’m not sure why I upset you so much, but you alway seem extremely hostile to me and attempt to take my words in the worst possible way. My comment had been here for most of a month and no other GC women though I was saying what you thought I was saying.

Both: Are sexual stereotypes about men and women in the bedroom true? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don't compare that to having women's genitalia.

I don’t think that I was.

GC: Why doesn't passing count? by BasCaptain in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like passing counts for something, just not changing sex. If you pass, you can move through the world being seen and treated as the opposite sex, but your sex hasn’t actually changed.

All: What do you think about "non-binaries" and other "gender identities"? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like most non-binary identities are silly. As others have said, for most, it seems similar to being “goth” or “emo”. It’s just a like a new way of labeling some type of alternative expression, but worse because other people are asked to participate.

Do you think there are differences between them and people who identify as the opposite sex or not?

I feel like it can be different or it can be the same. I feel like for transsexuals, identity isn’t the important part. We have identities, of course, but like changing your body to be like the opposite sex or passing as the opposite sex are what that is, rather than just being about an identity. That’s how I think of it at least. I guess that could apply to some non-binary people, but I feel like it’s usually not about that.

What do you think of neo-pronouns?

They don’t make sense as pronouns because pronouns are supposed to make language easier. Neo-pronouns seem almost like nicknames.

Do you think people who identify as such should be able to get their official documents changed to reflect their "gender identities" instead of their sex?

No. I do feel like having sex not be visible unless someone really needs to know it would be nice though.

Edit: I looked back and realized I misunderstood the last question! I thought it was about non-binary things on IDs, not sex markers. I changed the sex markers on all my identification years ago after I had bottom surgery (which was required to do that then) and it made moving through the world a lot easier. I feel like there might be ways to make it less visible so it wouldn’t be as necessary, but I wouldn’t want to be outed and potentially discriminated against because of a sex marker. I made a thread discussing this awhile ago.

https://saidit.net/s/GCdebatesQT/comments/62sl/gc_legal_sex_change_is_there_room_for_compromise/

What do you think about cases of young boys raised as girls, but eventually realizing they are boys? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What happened to David Reimer was a tragic case of abuse. I don’t really think much supporting either side can really be drawn from it. Maybe there are other times this happened, but I don’t know enough about those cases. Doctors shouldn’t do those things to children whether they are intersex or had an accident happen. I feel like even if you were told you were a girl and had confirmation surgeries before you could remember it, you would eventually realize your body wasn’t like those of girls around you and you’d want to know why. Parents aren’t capable of hiding that forever.

QT, if gender is innate to identity by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm still not clear on why you think they are in those numbers though.

I feel like I don’t understand what you mean...

To be clear if there was no relationship between trans identities and sexuality it would be the same ratio as the gay to straight in the general population, no? Maybe that's not the thing we are debating.

Why are there so many gnc (to their trans identity) trans people compared to the background population.

Maybe I’m not understanding totally lol. I feel like I answered that! It’s because of socialization. If someone is socialized as a female and they transition they will probably still have some typically female behaviors or interests (for their society) because of that socialization. That seems to explain it to me. People can’t really change themselves even if they want to.

So this is strong gender essentialism?

I don’t think it is.

Transwomen who are androphilic and do female professions are the real women?

I don’t think that, but I do feel like it’s easier to fit in.

I'm not even getting into the TWAW or TMAM debate but you do see the implications of this. I say that as someone more on the essentialist side. I'm not sure you get all the implications here IMHO.

I don’t think talking about the effects of socialization is essentialist. Maybe the implication that it relates to TWAW or TMAM is a little essentialist. I guess I think about it this way because when I first starting questioning trans stuff (basically when I met trans people in real life) I was more essentialist in my thinking and noticing what seemed like something that didn’t make sense meant a lot to me. I probably don’t always think of implications in these conversations lol.

QT, if gender is innate to identity by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I guess like my less charitable answer would be it’s because TW are men and TM are women. More charitably, you could say that trans people, especially those who were able to be straight passing, were socialized as their natal sex and will always be more like their natal sex because of that. Transwomen are over represented in male dominated professions and underrepresented in female ones for instance and majority of TW are gynophillic even though less than 10% of women are. I just don’t know how people ignore those things and believe TWAW or TMAM.

QT, if gender is innate to identity by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s a fair point! There are some people who are just living their lives more seamlessly and probably won’t be in a support group.

QT, if gender is innate to identity by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like that’s just so easily observable from being around trans people.

Identity by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, doesn't it get exhausting? And, not to pry, but aren't worried about what will happen as you age? Aging really changes people's appearance & body shapes in all sorts of usually unflattering ways that make most of unhappy.

What do you mean by exhausting? I don’t feel like being me is automatically exhausting so I’d have to understand how you mean it.

If I didn’t pass when I got older, I guess I’d figure out what that meant. I don’t think it would happen, but I guess you never really know. I’ve lived as an adult long enough to see myself age too. Not to like totally date myself, but I feel I have some idea of what 40 will be like from where I am now. As far as detransitioning or getting surgeries, it’s hard for me to imagine either of those things would happen. Assuming I wanted to detransition/retransition (which I don’t, but I don’t really feel like it’s an option), I’d still have to think about my family. I’m married and we’re going to have a child (adopted), none of these things (including getting a bunch of surgeries, which I honestly don’t want) are my decision to make alone and I just don’t know how they would fit into our lives. I like our lives now. Maybe my body could change in an unexpected way or my voice could drop an octave or something, but I really try to take care of myself and hopefully I’ll age alright. I’m just not sure how to answer that.

Identity by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gotcha! I guess I was thinking more about what would help the person’s identity be stable. Even wrong beliefs might help someone cope, but it’s still probably not the best and, in most cases, won’t work when it meets reality.

QT: Is not dating people due to beliefs bigotry? by wokuspokus in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Obligatory not QT, but trans. Yes! Any reason is fine to exclude someone I feel like. I wouldn’t be sure that all trans people believe a particular ideology. I guess you can say because we are trans we must believe something about gender, but I don’t know if that’s true especially as people mature and grow in life. It probably would be true of most trans people at the moment though.

Identity by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Idk how to word it, but I guess I mean, even if a trans person does have a secure and stable sense of identity, it’s still not really identifying as or with females/being female or males/being male.

Yeah, maybe there is still some dissonance, but I feel like it could be really small, not enough to threaten their identity, if someone existed in that role enough (so small they could even forget about it).

If a trans person is identifying as a “woman” even a “transsexual woman” I think it’s still off base

If the individual person had like internalized another definition that meant transsexual woman was just a type of woman, they might feel fine. It might not be true, but it wouldn’t matter for how they felt.

The science of sexual conflict by theory_of_this in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think there is evidence that humans are not blank. I think we also accept there is plenty of evidence that evolution affects the behaviour in all other animals.

So, I don’t believe humans are blank, but why focus on this when there is still sexism and misogyny. It were in a perfectly equal society where males and females were socialized exactly the same, there was no sexism or misogyny, and everyone could pursue whatever that wanted, I’m sure there would still some differences. I just don’t understanding with how things are now how you separate anything. I just feel like it’s people justifying whatever notions they have about the sexes as being natural (and, therefore, not able to changed). I don’t think there is anything scientific about it. It just people speculating on causes when there is no way to know.

Identity by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is such an amazing explanation! I guess, thinking of your last couple paragraphs especially, wouldn’t at least some trans people actually be well-adjusted in their identities because there wouldn’t be a big gap between a “real self” and reality? It seems like if someone saw themselves a transsexual woman/man rather than a biological one maybe they wouldn’t feel that there was a gap, or people who are generally regarded as the opposite sex might not feel like there is a big gap either. It doesn’t mean anyone owes anyone treating them any particular way, but I felt like when I read it at least some trans people would have stable and secure identities (assuming all trans people have gender identities, which I’m not so sure about!).

GC: Is anything transphobia? by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No worries! I feel like I worded it badly. It was about parents adopting when one of them is trans.

GC: Is anything transphobia? by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When did I say something about a child being trans?

Meta: Happy One Year Anniversary by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So happy we made it! I’m especially happy that Reddit didn’t succeed in ending the conversation this sub represents. <3 you all!

Also, big thanks u/gritix for starting this sub and u/worried19 for inviting so many of the former users including me!

Off topic, 29/06/21 by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment[M] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Saying “all trans women are men” for instance would be fine.

Addition: Or like, “I’m tired of women harassing the gay men on r/AskGayBros”. You can make statements about groups, but if you can’t say “userx is a woman/man” or use pronouns they aren’t comfortable with if userx is trans. Gender neutral is always fine though or just avoid pronouns all together. The rules don’t force anyone to use preferred or anything like that.

All: What do you miss about the old sub? by womanual in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow, thank you for this! I was thought I had lost everything I ever said there.

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

disclosing or raping are not the only two options, breaking it off without neither disclosing nor raping is better when you fear the one you want sex with.

I probably wouldn’t use the term rape, but this is a super important point. The trans person (usually) has the choice to not go any further if they are afraid of how the other person would react if they disclosed. I had so many occasions where I had to stop everything even though he wanted to and I wanted to because I wasn’t ready to tell him or I didn’t feel safe telling him. Guys may think you are a tease, but it’s better than putting yourself in danger or risking violating another persons boundaries.

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

All the talk about trans people not wanting to "out" themselves really means they operate in a deceptive mode much of the time.

Do you feel like passing is deceptive by itself? Just curious...

Gender dysphoria doesn't exist by SexualityCritical in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nearly all of them! If we could fine something wrong in the body it likely wouldn’t be considered a mental disorder. Anorexia nervosa for instance can’t necessarily be found in the brain, but lots of people still struggle with it. It’s understood by how people behave who have it. Sometimes, we will be able to locate things in the brain that are more likely to be present in someone with a certain disorder, but it’s always a mix of social and other things. Gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder (which is what I was diagnosed with) isn’t unique in this way. And we’re finding things in the brain for that too. It doesn’t mean that we were necessarily born like this, because brains are very plastic and can change a lot, but it is another indicator that it is a real thing. I feel like the only way your position makes sense is if you just say mental illnesses aren’t real to you.

https://www.eneuro.org/content/6/6/ENEURO.0183-19.2019

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You probably could today without it seeming too weird! It used to not be talked about as much though.

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Basically I think if someone is going to react in a shitty way, they’re gonna react that way no matter when you tell them, and it may be worse if things go further than a casual flirt and exchange of numbers. So if someone is afraid of someone they know knowing, it’s safest to not risk dating them at all.

That’d true, but I feel like you have to get to know someone to know sometimes though. You always the option to just break-up without telling them. If I had felt like my husband, after I got to know him better, was someone who would try to hurt me I had the choice to just break-up with him and not tell him. I didn’t have to allow it to go so far that I had to tell him. We weren’t jumping into bed immediately. 😛

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But I understand if someone is out and about and gets hit on not disclosing then and there. though if numbers are exchanged, would it not be better to disclose over the phone, before the date?

I feel like it depends a lot on how you know the person. Like, my husband and I had been coworkers for 3 years before we ever dated. I didn’t know him super well before he asked me out, but if he reacted badly I would have had to worry about him outing me to work or other people as like an act of revenge. I could have decided not to agree to go out with him, because it would have been a risk, but if did that standard I’d never date any guy because it was almost always men I worked with or were in my friend circles who would want to date me. You have to trust someone to give that to them I feel like because they can try to mess up your life. Even if telling him over the phone removes the immediate physical danger, it doesn’t remove other worries like that. If someone isn’t dating someone like that who could hurt them, they should just do it though.

I am curious if you think not disclosing is similar to concealing something else that may be a “dealbreaker”?

I feel like it could be like a (lesser or greater, depending on how they take it, version) of not disclosing marital status. I’ve unfortunately found out I later a guy I was (or thought I was!?) dating was married and I was really upset. There could be women who would be alright with that, but I wasn’t and felt deceived and that he had led me on.

Both: Are sexual stereotypes about men and women in the bedroom true? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you think other transsexual women also have a preference for more masculine men? I wonder if that could be because of a desire to not see similarities between yourself and another member of your natal sex, even subconsciously.

That’s an interesting thought! I feel like (male) HSTS might have similar preferences in men. I was briefly on Tailcalled’s discord a few years ago and they would ask us to rate male attractiveness sometimes (for data lol) and it felt like the few of us that were there all preferred the same (more masculine) type. Your idea makes sense, but I feel like I couldn’t possibly know. Presumably, it be stronger with more male appearing TW and, at least for HSTS, it’s just seemed like universal (of that small group at least).

All: What do you miss about the old sub? by womanual in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Porcelain_Quetzal is QT I think. I’m not against another QT mod necessarily as they aren’t super active. I’m not sure about your other suggestion. I feel like people being able to talk about their experiences with trans people is important to these conversations so I don’t know if it makes sense to ban that. I guess we could ask people to be more general... 🧐 I don’t know... It wouldn’t be my decision to make by myself in any case.

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t think so. I put kissing there because it can hard to avoid in real life. I just know I’m not that perfect to where I could avoid it with how men often are and I don’t want to say you are terrible if that happens. I did bad things when I was younger where I would meet a guy and seriously make-out, but stop short of sex and not disclose, but I feel like doing that is wrong. I guess maybe you could say no harm was done because the guy never knew, but I still don’t feel right about that looking back.

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Be careful with this topic! Usually these threads don’t go well. I will lock it if it gets bad.

I feel like dating and kissing (because sometimes it’s hard to avoid) are okay, but it the safest thing would always be to say it in advance. I feel like trans people today meeting people they don’t know on dating apps should just disclose because it’s easy and there isn’t any social risk because you don’t know the person yet (like they can’t out you at work or in a friend group for instance). You should always disclose before sex though. It’s not fun and it hurts, but it has to happen unfortunately. It would be very wrong not too.

All: What do you miss about the old sub? by womanual in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

More QT participants! Being on Reddit helped to people come to debate even though is an awful place.

Gender dysphoria doesn't exist by SexualityCritical in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like it doesn’t make sense to say it isn’t real. Just because something may only exist in a society or has a societal part mean it isn’t real. If you applied the same standard you are trying to apply to gender dysphoria, you’d throw out all sorts of mental illnesses. Very few can be easily located in the brain I don’t think. As u/loveSloane said, it’s a mental condition that exists. How can it exist and not be real?

Both: Are sexual stereotypes about men and women in the bedroom true? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]peakingatthemoment 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As a transsexual, did you ever feel that you had a more female-typical sexuality in any way?

Probably... I don’t want to stereotype female sexuality, but I feel like I have a lot in common with my friends (female) and it’s hard for me too imagine I’d have much in common with (most) men that way. I don’t think HSTS sexuality is exactly female sexuality though because I’ve just been told it isn’t, but I haven’t notice too many differences. The one thing I can think of is that I’m more into masculine men than some of my friends, some are more like me, but it matters more to me than most if that makes sense. Scrawny men or like super boyish looks don’t really do too much for me, but some women and girls are very attracted to those guys.

I am sexually receptive (if that is what we calling enjoying being penetrated lol) and never used my original parts to do that or masturbate when I had those parts. It wasn’t something I wanted and I feel like it would have been really upsetting. I feel like you can still be active though even if you are receptive, just in different ways. I feel like even that way society teaches us to think about it makes it where the man is always the active one, but it’s not true.