Both: How do you feel about the terms "female man", "male man", "female woman", and "male woman"?

submitted by comradeconradical from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I don’t see any point to inclusive language either. I assume it’s to spare the feelings of trans people who don’t pass, but that hardly seems like a reason to change words for the entire population. Also, it’s hard to understand why someone would want to go through life with other people just pretending for them to make them feel better. It seems like every interaction would be so fake. It becomes harder to use the language too in a way that makes sense.

I can’t speak for everyone, but the medical records of mine I’ve seen don’t indicate it. That said, I don’t think my childhood medical records weren really carried forward and I’ve been legally that way for a very long time, so it might be different for other people. My primary care doctor and anyone else I see regularly know my history, but I expect to have to explain if I see someone new. I don’t think the medical records system is really designed to deal with legal sex change.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

My primary care doctor and anyone else I see regularly know my history, but I expect to have to explain if I see someone new.

What happens if you can't explain to someone new? Like if you end up needing emergency care and are unconscious, out of it or can't speak due to stroke? I hope, of course, that never happens to you, but the fact is that it can to any of us. It's happened to me and to quite a few people I know.

In all the discussions of "trans health care" and how difficult it supposedly is for trans people to access/get good care, I never see any mention of taking practical measures to help insure that people who "pass" get proper care in emergency situations where they're unable to speak or communicate in other ways. People with medical conditions that aren't obvious to others just by looking at them/us often wear medical alert jewelry. Some people get tattoos. Many carry laminated cards in our wallets stating our hidden conditions too. But I never see any trans people even broach this topic at all. Which seems odd to me since my understanding is that people on trans hormone treatments have higher risk of stroke, and because there's constant emphasis amongst the "trans community" about the poor health care they get.

I realize that trans people wouldn't want to out themselves by wearing a piece of medical alert jewelry, but when HCPs are diagnosing, treating and risk-assessing a patient, it's important they know the patient's sex - as well as what drugs/exogenous hormones the patient is on. After all, the normal lab values/reference ranges in many areas are different for men and women, and the diagnostic trees, diagnostic tools and treatment options often/sometimes are different, too. Also, when treating an unconscious or unable to communicate woman of childbearing age, it has to be assumed she might be pregnant... and until it's ascertained that she's not, certain options are off the table. Taking the steps to determine whether an unconscious patient is pregnant (blood test, putting in an urinary catheter and obtaining urine for an hcg test, calling in a tech to do a sonogram) can take up precious time in situations when every minute counts, and also can involve time-consuming tests and procedures that would be wasted on a male. Also, every test that's done comes with a financial cost.

Also the dosages of many drugs differ based on sex, and the adverse reactions, and risk of them, to various drugs are often different based on the patient's sex too.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Hi MT! Hope you had a wonderful holiday and happy new year! Sorry I’m so low in responding to this! I’m not sure why it doesn’t come up more in the trans community. Maybe they just don’t think about the long term very much.

There also just isn’t a lot of research about trans bodies and how they respond to things. Is a male body that’s developed with high estrogen or a female body that’s developed with high testosterone need treatment based on sex rather than how it’s developed? There are obvious things like pregnancy or prostate problems that could be ruled out for sex, but for dosage requirements or disease risks, I’m just not sure if it has been studied enough. I feel often speaking to my doctors that they don’t quite understand my body or what to expect. People who advocate for it act like the long-term medical effects are well understood, but I don’t think they are.

I have thought about the being unconscious and not able to explain. There is medical information on my Apple watch that can be access if I am unconscious. Maybe my partner would be there or he could explain my medical history. I’m not sure how much it matters though other than like pregnancy because I feel like they just don’t know that much. I feel like, in most cases, even if they knew the history I’d probably be treated similar to female person of my height and body weight. I don’t thing medical people are trained to do any different or would know what that different thing should be.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

People like you need to be treated based on sex like everyone else. Taking exogenous hormones won't make someone's body develop more like the opposite sex, it just going to induce a hormonal imbalance which will lead to health issues. The problem is acknowledging that "gender affirming treatment" causes more problems than what it solves will make anyone being labeled as a "evil transphobe".

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m not sure about always needing treatment based on sex, it just doesn’t seem like that is how it is treated. At the very least, someone like me would have an unusual body fat ratio, tissue distribution, hormonal profile, and genitals compared to most male people. That’s why I feel like it’s important someone to have all the information. Assuming I was female might be bad and that’s why I tell people and would want them to know if I was unconscious, but I feel like someone just giving treatments targeting an average male person would probably be bad too.

Taking exogenous hormones won't make someone's body develop more like the opposite sex

That just isn’t true. They don’t change sex, but they effect how your body develops, if you take them when you are still developing. Most of the changes that happen during puberty are because of large quantities of sex hormones. You can still believe that "gender affirming treatment" causes more problems than it solves (and it probably does many times, it’s probably how the person sees it, but it isn’t without problems), but I don’t know what to say to the other part.