LGB refutation of TQ+, Part 1: Self-defense by PenseePansy in LGBDropTheT

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it was 46 out of 47 kids on puberty blockers went on to transition, while the lowest estimate of the desistance rate in kids left to their own devices is over 60%.

The medical community can't decide whether it's a mental disorder, or not. They seem to want to have it both way: a mental disorder in all but name. Gender clinics are on the increase, as are medical transitions, in the meantime they have removed 'distress' from the definition of what they now call "gender incongruence" & re-classified it as a "sexual condition". Now it simply reads "a strong desire to be the opposite sex". You'd think the verdict for "a strong desire" would surely just be "get over it"? Maybe the craze will begin to dwindle in the aftermath of this change.

Personally I think "gender dysphoria" is a type of identity crisis that historically affected some homosexuals. It only makes sense knowing how heteronormativity will affect LGB people adversely & that LGB youth are more susceptible to mental health problems. Like most identity crises it passes most of the time on its own. I don't know enough about psychology to really give an informed opinion though.

All I know is that increasing the desistance rate shouldn't be considered "conversion therapy" or "transphobia", but that medical transition with drugs like puberty blockers, which is literal conversion from a homosexual identity to heterosexual one, must be discontinued.

Book Recommendation: "Female Chauvinist Pigs: Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture," by Ariel Levy, 2005 - Bad Title, But Excellent Book by MarkTwainiac in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for your introduction/review of the book. Great read.

[Long] "Why can't you just accept the trans community? We're just trying to live!" by Butterlogs in LGBDropTheT

[–]SnowAssMan 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the trans movement did a number on the LGB community, probably more so than on women or feminism.

The mental health problems that LGB youth are more susceptible to, have now been transposed to transgender youth, resulting in the pathologising of homosexuality on a scale that hasn't been seen for decades.

The brain scans that were used to measure the biological underpinnings of homosexuality have been re-purposed to prove that they are actually the opposite sex deep down.

The trans movement is a conversion therapy cult.

LGB refutation of TQ+, Part 1: Self-defense by PenseePansy in LGBDropTheT

[–]SnowAssMan 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've been trying to do something similar, but from a feminist angle. I've found that arguing on their terms in a way reinforces their ideology, when that is completely unnecessary. All you have to do is dismantle the ideology brick by brick, then there will be nothing left to address.

This is what I've got so far (sources not included):

Feminist Conspectus: Addressing the Trans Movement’s Ideology

The following is a succinct feminist perspective addressing the conflict between trans issues and women’s issues, by deconstructing the ideological narrative that has monopolised the discussion on this topic, as well as redressing the false representation of the feminist position.

The conspectus is divided into two sections. Section 1 Foundations of Gender targets gender specifically, its definitions, origin & more. Section 2 Assessing the Evidence tackles the claims made, taking the evidence in its entirety into account. The content of each is in the form of bullet points.

Section 1: Foundations of Gender

1a) Gender (synonym for sex): male/female

1b) Gender (construct): masculinity/femininity

2a) Gender identity: a social identity, not naturally occurring, but shaped by gendered upbringing in accordance with the norms associated with a child’s sex, not their preferred sex

2b) Cross-gender self-identification/felt-gender (almost exclusively incorrectly referred to as ‘gender identity’, & usually shortened to: ‘gender’) is a condition in men who have a strong desire to appropriate women. Treated as a pathology in the West, it affects feminine gay children (heteronormative homosexuality) & middle-aged men with autogynaephilia (paraphilia)

3) Woman (not a construct): an adult human female

4) Transgender men are adult human male transsexuals who present as feminine (names & pronouns, minimally) & most make their bodies appear female (e.g. tucking), but they share their sex, their gender identity & their privilege with men, which makes their preferred sex, felt gender & strong desire to appropriate women redundant:

• Transgender men’s sex is unambiguous & binary, not on a spectrum, not assigned, not intersex, not female, but male. Therefore excluding them on these grounds does not indirectly exclude any women

• Transgender men’s felt-gender is undetectable, indefinable & inconsequential

• David Reimer was socialised a boy for the first 2 years of his life, then sexual abuse took its place under the guise of “re-socialisation”. So the major case purported to favour felt-gender theory, did the opposite. Conversely, the vast majority of infant males assigned female at birth & socialised accordingly did not desist

• Transsexuals prove that gender identity > felt-gender, otherwise they wouldn’t have to train themselves not to walk, talk, behave etc. in a gender-congruent way, nor would they have to put any effort in to emulating the gendered behaviours of their preferred sex

• Transsexuals’ gendered behavioural trends are consistent with their socialised gender & inconsistent with their felt gender e.g. positions of power, media representation, crime rates, HIV distribution are male-dominated, while attempted suicide is female-dominated, regardless of trans or not

Section 2: Assessing the Evidence

• Proof trans people exist ≠ proof that "trans-womxyn are women"

• There is no academic source for the activist slogan: "trans-womxyn are women", not in the icd-11, not in queer theory, nowhere.

• By “brainsex”-logic gay men are women

• Trans-rights need to be tied to trans-status, not self-ID, otherwise we are throwing 2/3 of trans people (the female ones) under the bus (as well as 50% of the population)

• Sex-concordant pronouns are benign, accurate & descriptive, not "violence"

• Calling feminists "cis" & "TERFs" is violence by the trans movement’s own standards on self-identification

• ‘Male-exclusionary’ exists, ‘trans-exclusionary’ doesn’t

• Transgendered males benefit from male privilege (as with homophobia, transphobia does not offset male privilege), the ones who pass benefit from "cis privilege", meaning they are never more oppressed than women. Women in their natural, unfeminised state are “GNC” too.

• The male sex is the social majority, the female sex is the social minority, therefore “cis-privilege” vs. “transmisogyny” is a sexist reversal of the power dynamic

• The trans movement is just as sexist & androcentric as any other the microcism, male transexuals outnumber female transexuals in high positions & media representation

• The trans movement engages in parasitic activism, hijacking gay rights, BLM, feminism, the progressive movement etc. to further a biology-abolitionist cause

• There is more evidence of radical self-ID dogma harming women than there is of even the most radical of feminist sentiments harming transgender people

• Inequality between the sexes needs to be addressed independently by feminists without the trans movement vilifying & censoring them

• Women's sports, shelters, prisons, changing rooms, medicine & sexual orientations are not ideology-affirmation playgrounds for the self-ID cult. Two separate unisex spaces makes one redundant

• Being treated as a “woman” socially, among friends, family, neighbours, even shopkeepers is one thing, but being treated in law as indistinguishable from the female sex is sexism via erasure.

• Distinguishing between the sexes is justified, distinguishing between transgender-males who identify as women & transgender-males who identify as men is not, because differences in ideological beliefs are not material differences.

• Some trans people say “trans-womxyn are women”, others say trans-womxyn are men – neither view is "transphobic"

• "Gender dysphoria" in 2022 will be re-named, re-classified & de-pathologised. There is no mental disorder inherent to gender variance & therefore no symptoms, treatments, no clinics are required

• It’s unethical to transition kids when the majority desist before adulthood, without intervention

• The fact that the use of puberty blockers yields a 98% insistence rate is evidence of conversion therapy

• Homosexuality (exclusive same sex attraction) is overrepresented in the desisted, detransitoned & trans populations, therefore many trans people are just confused, or self-hating, gay people

• Transtrenders are teen girls who appropriate trans identities to fuel their teen sub-cultures

• Autogynaephiles appropriate trans identity to fuel their paraphilia (“transbians” only exist in the West)

• Transgender-males embracing feminine tendencies is authenticity, but emulating women, adopting the labels: ‘woman’ & ‘female’ even, is sexism via appropriation

• Gender abolition is feminism, men appropriating women is sexism via erasure

• Raising issues with the trans movement is not "transphobic"

Vanessa Vokey's video called "Samantha Lux is not a woman" has been removed by Youtube for "harassment & bullying" by SnowAssMan in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

YAY! I'm so glad. This will be a reality check for Lux's fans.

How I became a Trans Rights Activist — then turned "Gender Critical" - GC dude's article removed from Medium, now on Uncommon Ground by notgonnabenice in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We should call the male ones 'transgender men' & the female ones 'transgender women', otherwise we become tools in their sexist psychological warfare.

OKCupid baking their ideology into their platform a great example of problematic dogma in Big Tech by jjdub7 in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow, they are serious about this sexism via erasure business. I'm put in mind of JKR's opponents protests: "No one ever said sex isn't real". They want to erase the definition of female & the word 'feminine', then combine what is leftover into one, so that 'female' can come to mean 'feminine', in order to make the social construct of gender "real" & the reality of sex a social construct that is criminally taboo.

Biden picks Dr. Rachel Levine, transgender woman, as assistant health secretary in historic first by distortedlinds in LGBDropTheT

[–]SnowAssMan 18 insightful - 8 fun18 insightful - 7 fun19 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

Not very "affirming" when all the powerful positions are taken by men who identify as women, & never the women who identify as men. Go home & cook & clean if your femininity is so innate.

Vanessa Vokey's video called "Samantha Lux is not a woman" has been removed by Youtube for "harassment & bullying" by SnowAssMan in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yet another one: "TERF won't leave trans people alone!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giHq_3Euo9U

Vanessa Vokey's video called "Samantha Lux is not a woman" has been removed by Youtube for "harassment & bullying" by SnowAssMan in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

a new one: Transphobes need to log off of the internet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oCnznzzoEw

Vanessa Vokey's video called "Samantha Lux is not a woman" has been removed by Youtube for "harassment & bullying" by SnowAssMan in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same thing happened to my 10 year old account (but I posted more than just a few GC comments on many a video before anything happened). Thankfully, I saved my music playlist (copied & pasted the titles into a word doc). But lost my feminist & lefttube playlists & very long watch later list.

Vanessa Vokey's video called "Samantha Lux is not a woman" has been removed by Youtube for "harassment & bullying" by SnowAssMan in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I image it was Lux's half a million fans. If Vanessa contests it she'll likely get it back. Contrapoints' video once got taken down temporarily by the alt-right, I've also had videos taken down before by a number of people who abused the report button, only to have the videos reinstated a week later. Hopefully Vanessa's video will be back.

Men are just more numerous & dedicated to the cause.

Vanessa Vokey's video called "Samantha Lux is not a woman" has been removed by Youtube for "harassment & bullying" by SnowAssMan in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Here are some videos about Vanessa, report at your leisure:

Vanessa Transphobe Made a Video About Me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDSKLxAf21w

Vanessa Vokey is a Turd(Terf)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dgBPLcQIiY

The TikTok Transphobe that's Cultivating a Dangerous Community...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59a2SGBj1rM

A song about Vanessa Vokey Photography

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3_0_9wLm74

Transphobic Vanessa Vokey is a Man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG_iJtOjmow

"Transgender Women are MEN"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-U4P8VdOso&t

And of course the one that started it all: A Transphobe Made A Video About Me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU8OhPkE2CE&t

"A Transphobe Made A Video About Me!" – Lux responds to Vanessa Vokey's video, sicking his massive audience on her in the process by SnowAssMan in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And, no one can explain why mental health issues should drive cultural narratives and public policy...

Imagine if we had a legitimate concern for mental health of young people. Anorexia affects a lot more people than "gender incongruence" & it's also the deadliest mental illness. But that's a women's issue so...

"A Transphobe Made A Video About Me!" – Lux responds to Vanessa Vokey's video, sicking his massive audience on her in the process by SnowAssMan in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Consider also the suicide numbers. They always claim that 40% of all trans people are dead via suicide, or some such nonsense. The source they are quoting is a survey asking students about whether they have attempted suicide. 14% of average students reported attempted suicide vs. 29% of trans-womxyn. That's twice as many.

Students who actually successfully commit suicide is <1%, so for trans-womxyn it's likely around 1% & yet the whole world has to stop & dance to their every whim because of the threat of suicide.

"A Transphobe Made A Video About Me!" – Lux responds to Vanessa Vokey's video, sicking his massive audience on her in the process by SnowAssMan in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I reported the video for bullying.

"A Transphobe Made A Video About Me!" – Lux responds to Vanessa Vokey's video, sicking his massive audience on her in the process by SnowAssMan in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 21 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, they can't decide whether they want to erase them or appropriate them.

We should probably go back to calling them 'transexuals' by SnowAssMan in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Not at all, in both examples I don't subscribe to the cult's beliefs, so their respective nomenclatures are irrelevant to me.

They're coming for the word "female" and "biological female" by [deleted] in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cognitive dissonance means they are still going to get triggered by the definition of woman: adult human female.

We should probably go back to calling them 'transexuals' by SnowAssMan in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not a catholic, so I don't call a priest 'father'. I don't believe in gender spirits trapped in the wrong body, so I'm not going to call a man a woman. Simple. What you're looking for is a theocracy.

We should probably go back to calling them 'transexuals' by SnowAssMan in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

not according to the dictionary definition of 'transexual'.

We should probably go back to calling them 'transexuals' by SnowAssMan in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Transexuals in cultures outside the West (like Samoa) don't have "gender dysphoria". That term will soon be discontinued & replaced with a different term with a different definition in 2022 (gender incongruence, marked by a strong desire to be the opposite sex &/or a dislike of one's sex).

I don't think pathologising it is going in the right direction. I think history has shown us that that's the wrong path to go down. Gender clinics are increasing, however there have been some moves to de-pathologising it.

"Male rape" by FlippyKing in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]SnowAssMan 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lying back and having sex when you don't feel like it might not be a very bad experience but it's nothing like rape

It's been argued that this kind of rape can have a cumulative effect (if endured on a regular basis, usually within the context of a LTR), resulting in trauma similar to, or possibly even worse than the stranger-in-the-alley types.

"Male rape" by FlippyKing in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]SnowAssMan 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Calling that rape would undermine rape that men experience by male perpetrators. as far as I know rape is attempted or completed forced penetration of an unwilling subject. So the woman in the example you gave may have committed a lesser sexual crime, but not rape.

Our pursuit of gender equality shouldn't mean treating men & women exactly the same, but rather appropriately instead. Men & women differ in at least one way: reproductively, which would have it's greatest effects within sexual contexts. Applying an androcentric standard to women is sexist & doesn't do men any favours either (going back to the prison/military male perpetrated rape thing).

Women can still be charged with rape, usually against women, using a foreign object. Just as men forcibly "bottoming" isn't considered rape. So it's not a sexist law.

my ex is an emotionally (and sexually) abusive tim and im constantly shamed for talking about my experiences with her because of transphobia, heres a fun example by anonybutch in itsafetish

[–]SnowAssMan 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why do I get the feeling it's the ex talking? Especially at "Ex already told me your schedule"

Samantha Lux is NOT a Woman – Vanessa Vokey (she is going to need all the support she can get, as Lux has a large audience) by SnowAssMan in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just mean there are channels run by trans-womxyn that are dedicated to anti-feminist content. I don't detect any malice in Lux. He doesn't seem to go out of his way to target feminists. He just seems like a wide-eyed victim of the delusional time period he lives in.

No, I don't find any kinship with Lux via supposed shared sexual orientation, especially since we don't have that in common. I just noticed that the worst offenders tend to be the heterosexual ones. We should probably go back to distinguishing between them based on orientation, like Blanchard did. It's only ever the heterosexual ones that commit crimes against women, as far as I know.

GC: I have questions that need answers by 2oldforschool in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Huh? There are organisms that produce hermaphrodites, others reproduce asexually, but mammals, like humans, sexually reproduce where, as I said, the population is divided into males whose sperm fertilises the ova of the females. How does this lend any credence to the unfounded claim that "trans-womxyn are women"? It'd be like saying "roosters are hens". Simply adding "because sexual reproduction isn't universal across all life forms" doesn't change the initial inanity into something comprehensible.

Trans-womxyn are no less male then any other men & no more female either.

Samantha Lux is NOT a Woman – Vanessa Vokey (she is going to need all the support she can get, as Lux has a large audience) by SnowAssMan in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was wondering why Vanessa decided to make a video on Lux, I guess it's because he is the next up & coming one, as you say? Personally, I don't find Lux as offensive as some others on Youtube. I find that the homosexual ones don't offend me as much though in general. There are others that have a more MRA approach & are more targeted anti-feminists who I think are more deliberately & relentlessly hostile to feminism. You can usually find them by doing a search for 'TERF'.

Magdalen Berns is certainly missed. I think Arielle Scarcella is doing a good job of simply bringing some common sense to a mainstream audience, even though she is in no way radical.

Samantha Lux is NOT a Woman – Vanessa Vokey (she is going to need all the support she can get, as Lux has a large audience) by SnowAssMan in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He does seem more delusional than the average, maybe because of how young he is?

I have a hard time believing that men who are attracted to transwomen wouldn't also be attracted to hyperfeminine (non-trans) men by dilsency in LGBDropTheT

[–]SnowAssMan 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Then someone needs to add this to the Wiki page:

“The results indicate that the sexual partners of fa’afafine demonstrate bisexual patterns of sexual attraction”

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/26/12787.short

http://opus.uleth.ca/bitstream/handle/10133/3745/PETTERSON_LANNA_MSC_2015.pdf?sequence=5&isAllowed=y

GC: I have questions that need answers by 2oldforschool in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Who cares, mate? Gastropods are hermaphrodites. Point is, reproduction happens a lot of different ways in different organisms. Sexual reproduction in humans, like with many species, requires half the population to be female & the other half male.

But none of this is on topic.

An abridged feminist perspective addressing all the major issues of the trans movement’s ideology by SnowAssMan in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So, I've split the conspectus into two sections. I'll post just section 1, for now, the sources will be at the end:

Section 1: Foundations of Gender

1) Gender is an umbrella term that either refers to male/female (e.g. ‘gender inequality’ refers to inequality between the sexes, i.e. men & boys’ privilege vs. discrimination against women & girls), or masculinity/femininity

2) Femininity is a construct, an ideology that promotes the sexual objectification/fetishisation, infantalisation, dehumanisation, subjugation of the female sex. Femininity is artificial secondary sex characteristics bestowed onto girls from birth. Femininity is sanctioned self-harm. Femininity is the opposite of freedom

3) A woman is an adult human female (not a construct), like a hen is a female chicken. A female, feral child may believe herself an animal, but she is a girl

4) A transgendered male’s sex is unambiguous & binary, not assigned, not intersex, not female, but male. Therefore excluding them on these grounds does not indirectly exclude any women

5) ‘Gender identity’ either refers to natal/socialised gender, which is axiomatic in sociology & related disciplines, & describes a social identity resulting from gendered socialisation (children receive separate upbringing styles based on their sex), or a transgender person’s cross-gender self-identification/felt gender.

6) Felt-gender is undetectable, indefinable & inconsequential

7) The trans movement conflates men’s cross-gender self-identification/preferred sex/felt gender, with women’s socialised gender, in order to a) erase transgendered males’ socialised gender & b) equate their felt-gender with women’s socialised gender

8) David Reimer was socialised a boy for the first 2 years of his life, then sexual abuse took its place under the guise of “re-socialisation”. So the major case purported to favour felt-gender theory, did the opposite. Conversely, the vast majority of infant males assigned female at birth & socialised accordingly did not desist

9) Trans people prove that socialised gender > felt-gender, otherwise they wouldn’t have to train themselves not to walk, talk, behave etc. in a gender-congruent way, nor would they have to put any effort in to emulating the gendered behaviours of their preferred sex

10) Transgender people’s gendered behavioural trends are consistent with their socialised gender & inconsistent with their felt gender e.g. positions of power, media representation, crime rates, HIV distribution are male-dominated, while attempted suicide is female-dominated, regardless of trans or not

11) All transgendered males present as feminine (names & pronouns, minimally) & most make their bodies appear female (e.g. tucking). The ideology of the trans movement claims men can be female & feminine, yet most transgendered males still prefer to be women, presumably because they know they are male, but crave the association with being female, which they believe feminine names & pronouns & female labels like ‘woman’ & ‘female’ will afford them, as these don’t just connote femaleness, the latter two even denote it. Therefore transgender-males themselves don’t actually believe the trans movement’s ideological claims (that the state of being female & feminine are separate from ‘woman’), but in fact agree with feminism that ‘woman’ is defined as female, otherwise they’d have no desire to be one. This is why ‘preferred sex’ rather than “gender identity” is a more accurate term to describe transgenderism

12) A man's cross-gender self-identification & preferred sex do not erase his socialisation, or his sex, respectively. Quite the reverse, his gendered socialisation & unambiguous male sex make his felt gender & preferred sex redundant, as he shares his biology, socialisation & privilege with men & lacks women’s biology, socialisation & the sexism that is universal to women’s experience, with nothing but a feeling to make up for it

Sources:

1) https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/sociology-and-social-reform/sociology-general-terms-and-concepts/masculinity

https://genderedinnovations.stanford.edu/terms/femininities.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_of_domination#Benefits_among_gender

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_of_domination#Wage_gap_among_gender

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_of_domination#Representation_among_gender

3) https://www.oed.com/oed2/00286737

4) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female

5) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology_of_gender#Gender_and_socialization

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialization#Gender_socialization

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3u1A0Mrjjw

8) https://sites.oxy.edu/clint/physio/article/GenderIdentityOutcomeinFemaleRaised46XYPersonswithPenileAgenesisCloacalExstrophyoftheBladderorPenileAblation.pdf

9) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACVM1BUY8tY

https://www.reddit.com/r/FTMMen/comments/cptx7d/what_i_learned_in_speech_therapy/

10) https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/politics/amp34567467/election-2020-trans-winners/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transgender_characters_in_film_and_television

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_trans_characters

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/848759/hmpps-offender-equalities-2018-19.pdf

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/gender/transgender/index.htmlhttps://www.hiv.gov/hiv-basics/overview/data-and-trends/statistics

https://save.org/about-suicide/suicide-facts/

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/142/4/e20174218?sso=1&sso_redirect_count=1&nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token

I posted it here the lazy way, but in the finished product the sources would be linked the way they are on Wikipedia. What do you think? Should I inlclude number 11? Should I refer to them as 'transgendered males'? Should they be numbered? Once I'm done, I'll publish the first edition on Medium. Ideally the second edition would be a collaborative effort by members of the GC sub.

Pinkpillfeminism has been nuked. Gone. by Zenobia in PinkPillFeminism

[–]SnowAssMan 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Don't know if guys are allowed to post on here, but here is some material of the sub that I archived as medium articles, for what it's worth:

PinkPillFeminism Archive 1

PinkPillFeminism Archive 2

PinkPillFeminism Top Posts

GC: I have questions that need answers by 2oldforschool in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

There are insects that produce neuter offspring, like ants. Queens are female, but workers are neuter... as far as I remember. I could be wrong though. I'm no expert on ants. It might be more complicated than that. Maybe the workers are still female, but sterile?

GC: I have questions that need answers by 2oldforschool in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

1) A prerequisite to getting a hysterectomy is having a uterus. Infertility & castration are not the same as sexlessness. There are organisms that produce neuter offspring that are neither male nor female. Humans are not one such an organism. Corpses can't reproduce either, so how come forensic scientists can still sex even skeletal remains?

Here is the GC view i.e. the scientific view on how female is defined: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female

Are trans-womxyn male?:

Gonadal sex? ✓ male

Chromosomal sex? ✓ male

Hormonal sex? ✓ male

Anatomical sex? ✓ male

Conclusion: trans-womxyn are 100% male, 0% female. Where was the confusion?

2) Every dad was male, every mum was female.

3) Otherkin et al are more like goths, sub-cultures, not gender identities. If I send you a link to a fan website about people who take Dungeons & Dragons too seriously, is that somehow evidence that wanting to be a cosplay character literally turns you into the actual character? No? Then your links are a waste of time.

Gender identity is a real thing, it's just the opposite of what the trans movement says it is. For instance, a trans-woman's gender identity is 'man'. Socialisation is the mechanism that produces a person's gender identity. Trans people wouldn't need to train themselves to walk & talk like the opposite sex if their gender identity was incongruous to begin with. There is only 1 of 2 gendered socialisations that babies & children receive. Activists want to re-name self-ID 'gender identity' & erase what gender identity really refers to.

Feminist analysis is academia, the trans movement's binary ideology is activism, non-binary & otherkin etc. are teen sub-cultures. They all use the word 'gender', but they are 3 completely different things.

'I'm Not A Gay Man, I Am A Transwoman', Designer Saisha, Formally Swapnil Shinde Comes Out as Transwoman by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]SnowAssMan 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's how homosexuality manifests itself in most cultures. The culture will re-classify their homosexual population as something other than man or woman. The more traditionalist the culture, the more heteronormative gay relationships have to become. Our heteronormative society has shifted from considering a homosexual's sexual orientation as a defect, to regarding the homosexual's sex as being the defect. Instead of pathologising/converting their sexuality, we are now pathologising/converting their sex.

Why all these heterosexuals are transitioning is a complete mystery to me though, as this latter phenomenon is unique to the West. I'm guessing middle-class cultures are more susceptible to neuroses, which lead to the paraphilia & teen sub-cultures which appropriate gender identity?

QT: A question of ideology by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transgender_characters_in_film_and_television

Compare the shorter list of trans-men characters to the substantially longer list of trans-womxyn characters. So there, trans-womxyn outnumber trans-men in media. Case closed.

QT: A question of ideology by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If trans-men can handle men's spaces, so can trans-womxyn. The latter is not more vulnerable to men than the former.

There are men who have actual breasts, they have to deal with the same problem, except they didn't choose it. Re-categorising them as women would be just as stupid a "solution".

My point was that you are grouping men with a cross-gender self identification with women and that’s bad. "trans panic" = "gay panic", same thing.

far fewer trans-womxyn or gay men or effeminate men or trans-men will harm women with that grouping than men would harm trans-womxyn, gay men, effeminate men, trans-men the other way – there, I corrected it for you. Those protections were made for women, not everyone but women.

There is no excuse for parasitic activism.

QT: A question of ideology by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It doesn't matter what type of media you're looking at, trans-womxyn outnumber trans-men, whether it's Hollywood movies, or Youtube videos. In the case of "Lefttube", trans-womxyn even outnumber women. This is why accusations by trans-womxyn of women's supposed "cis privilege" is a sexist reversal of the power dynamic.

Both: Do "transbians" exist outside the West? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You still believe that a desire to be the opposite sex is a mental disorder? In the past we used to pathologise homosexuality, nowadays gender clinics are on the increase, we are clearly going in the wrong direction on that front. On the other hand, if you remember my previous post on here, international bodies are beginning to de-pathologise "gender incongruence", as they combat the Westerncentric, pathologising view that you embrace.

No, I'm not using transbian wrong. Google it.

Regarding brain structures "correlation does not prove causation". A brain structure can be as much an effect as a cause. Even you know that.

the rising number of out trans people

The economy crashed in 2008 & has yet to recover, in fact, it has taken a few more blows recently by the virus & lockdowns. Cultures become more traditionalist in the wake of an economic crash, this has been true since the agricultural revolution some 12 thousand years ago. The rise of the far-right & the coinciding of the trans trend are not unrelated. They are both symptoms of an economic disease – or so it could be argued, without contradiction. If you've noticed it's mostly the illegitimate "trans" people who are the loudest, most visible, most dogmatic & most active within the movement. They are overcompensating, which seems to be the default for trans people, generally. Reminds me of right-wing, closeted homosexual homophobes.

Literally no evidence points to this. Trans people exist all over the world. Some of them are gay. Your level of plain denial of the simple fact of people existing is no less than stunning.

Over the course of this discussion I have provided citations (granted mostly secondary, but even some primary ones) on the exclusively androphilic sexual orientations of the hijra, kathoey, muxe, fa’afafine, xanith, travesti & the maknyahs. I'm running out of transgendered males in the world to cover. You're clearly the one in denial. When are you finally going to produce any evidence to the contrary???

"Gender dysphoria" doesn't exist outside the West though, that's the problem. That's why the INTERNATIONAL Classification of Diseases had to replace it with 'gender incongruence', which isn't entirely accurate either, but it's a step in the right direction, as it's less Westerncentric & less pathologising.

QT: A question of ideology by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

More wishful thinking on your part. Fact is, trans-womxyn outnumber trans-men in media representation, high positions & the public-sphere in general (no matter how much either passes), just like gay men compared to lesbians. It's the same exact sexist, patriarchal structure you see everywhere. It turns out socialised gender > felt gender once again. You could argue that the homophobia that gay men receive is worse than what lesbians do – so what? Again, it still doesn't offset male privilege.

QT: A question of ideology by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

SEXism & male privilege exist, even within the trans population, therefore trans-womxyn are no more marginalised than any other marginalised group of men. They are as much the privileged majority within their microcosm as gay men & black men are in theirs.

QT: A question of ideology by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The best way to protect trans rights is to have them tied to trans status, obviously. If trans-men just get men's rights, then they have no rights that address their specific needs. Why should affirming this ideology come before all else? Oh right, trans-men are female i.e. not your concern.

Sex and gender are different

But the genders are not different, that's the point. Distinguishing between the sexes is justified, distinguishing between genders isn't, since anyone can be anything.

I expressly don’t want to be grouped with men

Women expressly don't want to be grouped with men either, nobody does, why on Earth should over 50% of the population's rights be compromised for 0.2% of the population though, especially when we don't discriminate based on orientation? Purge all the gynaephilic "trans-womxyn" from the movement first – that demographic alone is responsible for all the trans on female violent & sexual crimes. Keeping trans people separate from men is one thing (except trans-men apparently???), but grouping trans-womxyn in with women is completely unjustified. Even grouping gay men with women would make more sense, since none of them are gynaephlles.

QT: A question of ideology by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Rights". Men have got rights, gay men too. What additional "rights" do the transgendered ones require? The right to endlessly seesaw between erasing the female sex & appropriating it? Seeing trans-womxyn as men doesn't indirectly strip them of any rights, seeing them as women strips away at women's rights. Calling trans-womxyn women rids both women & trans-womxyn of definitions, making the whole thing redundant. It'd end up with us just going back to distinguishing between the sexes again anyway.

QT: A question of ideology by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

See, you just implied that gay men aren't men. transgendered males experience transphobia – so does anyone who is GNC, it doesn't offset male privilege. the trans population is just as sexist & androcentric as any other microcosm.

QT: A question of ideology by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A fact of life? Do men who want to be women exist, or do they inexplicably turn into women (retroactively too, erasing the fact that they were ever men who wanted to be women) as soon as they feel that way? What part of 'woman' is it they covet so much anyway? Apparently men can be both feminine & female according to the trans movement's definitely-not-an-ideology. So what's the motivation? What's the difference between a feminine female "man" & a 'woman'?

Both: Do "transbians" exist outside the West? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

every time you refer to homosexuals with cross-gender roles as "women" you're surely doing very much the same as calling them "not real men", hypocrite.

so trans people never existed before the 20th century & don't exist in most countries of the world even today just because boob implants haven't existed until then? Is being trans a medical condition except you acquire by trying to treat it in some sort of mad pathologising paradox?

When are you going to admit I was right & you were wrong about kathoeys' sexual orientation btw?

If there is no evidence of something ever existing until 10 years ago, it's pretty safe to assume that it's not natural, like the recent trend of non-binary teenage girls, for instance. Cultural imperialism is a thing FYI. Over time cultures become more homogeneous by assimilating to the dominant culture. Skin-whitening beauty products in various cultures are a direct result of colonialism & imperialism, & if ever there is a shift in the kathoey's sexual orientation distribution to include a bunch of "transbians" then it'd be just as safe to assume it was entirely due to Western influence. Only evolutionary biologists use logic flawed by presentism. Are you an evolutionary biologist?

Brain studies? What brain studies? The ones that prove gay men are women on account of not all gay brains having one tiny similarity in common with not all female brains? Cherry picking. Brain studies more often than not prove the exact opposite of what you're looking for, unless you're so selective you end up cherry-picking the bits you like & discarding the majority you don't like. You said yourself that Thailand has a homophobic history, in addition to that we know that it has one of the highest trans populations & they are practically all same-sex attracted – it's not far-fetched at all to make the case that transgenderism is an outgrowth of systemic homophobia. It doesn't take a genius to put two & two together, just the most rudimentary critical thinking skills.

You're really grasping at straws at this point. It's quite pathetic really. All the evidence points to transbians only existing in the West, produce evidence to the contrary Transgendered males are homosexuals assimilating to a homophobic culture, while transbianism is a paraphilia & nb is the product of a teen sub-culture, it's clear as day. What's the alternative? "Trapped in the wrong body", feel like this, live like that? Give me a break.

Both: Do "transbians" exist outside the West? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hello? If transition pulls only the opposite-sex attracted ones into realms of bisexuality, then counting bisexual trans-womxyn as gynaephiles is justified. How many more times does this need to be explained to you?

What data is that based on? It appears to just be restating a stereotype and stating it like it appears to be true. How is that dispositive?

Your argument is: it's just made up? The authors quoted are academics who write exclusively on the topic of sexuality. Your incredulity is unjustified. Spare me your convenient pedantry.

You really want to cite an opinion piece that calls gay men not real men?

Conveniently nitpicky.

I don’t claim expertise of the fafafine but as I understand it, it’s a purely social role that involves no actual transformation. It’s essentially just permanent cross dressing and adapting the traditional feminine role in a highly gendered society, without physical transition.

That's true of all trans people. In most of the world & throughout history medical transition wasn't a thing, obviously.

First that article is 18 years old and likely based on older surveys

Which would make it a lot more accurate, as the closer to the present day the info is the more Western influences on the data you'd have to contend with. Too much Western influence defeats the purpose of collecting data from other cultures.

a move from 71 percent of kathoey feeling gay in early onset to 91 percent after transition which still represents a change

How the fuck did you get that from: "by age 10, 71% felt different to other males"? Learn how to read, mate. Later it says: "by age 10 only 7% had experienced any sexual feelings at all" – Wow, from 7% in childhood to close to 100% in adulthood? That's a massive cHaNGe. Think of the implications!

And 30 percent of them see this as gay attraction suggesting they wouldn’t be considered trans by many people]

Only by insular people. Other cultures exist. It's not a far-fetched notion that men are men, even if they adopt cross-gender roles.

There could also be a cultural element given that Thailand as I understand it has a pretty strong anti gay history

It's entirely possible that if homophobia didn't exist anywhere neither would transgenderism.

Both: Do "transbians" exist outside the West? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is what you're ignoring:

"Among 115 Dutch participants, for example, 33% of trans women and 22% of trans men reported experiencing changes in their sexual attractions. This was true of 49% of trans masculine and 64% of trans feminine individuals in a 2015 study of 452 participants from Massachusetts, with the majority of these changes occurring after social transition. In another 2013 study of 507 U.S. trans men who’ve started transitioning (including hormones and/or surgery), 40% reported some shift in sexual attractions. Almost identical results were found in a 2005 study of 232 U.S. trans women who had undergone surgical and hormonal transition, where 43% reported significant shifts in their sexual orientation (of 2+ points along the 7-point Kinsey scale). Most of these changes include shifts from exclusive attraction to one gender pre-transition toward some level of bisexuality post-transition [...] But some people claim almost complete reversal of their sexual orientation. For example, 13% of the trans women in the 2005 study switched from exclusive or primary attraction to women to exclusive or primary attraction to men (there were no such drastic changes among those who were initially attracted to men)"

https://www.them.us/story/sexual-attraction-after-transition

You want assume some kathoey are bi or even gay but will assume they are straight

I'm not assuming. Apparently you missed it in my previous reply, so here are the highlights again:

"In Western cultural contexts, male androphiles who fit this egalitarian pattern are often referred to as gay men. In contrast, in most non-Western societies, transgendered male androphilia appears to be the cultural norm Transgendered male androphilia occurs between a male who is markedly gender-atypical and another who is more or less gender-typical for his own sex [...] [They] often occupy ‘alternative’ gender role categories that are distinguished linguistically from the gender-normative categories of ‘man’ and ‘woman’. Some contemporary examples include [...] the KATHOEY of Thailand (Herdt 1996; Murray 2000)"

To sum up, homosexuality in most other cultures manifests itself in the homosexual male adopting what we regard as a more feminine gender role & expression, better known as the transgendered male.

Since my previous comment, I found this reference to kathoey sexual orientation:

"While kathoey are for the most part interested only in “real” men, who occasionally have sex with them, gay men might seek either “real” men or other gay men as sexual partners (Doussantousse & Keovongchith; Lyttleton, 2008)"

https://www.academia.edu/11497712/Mobile_Sexualities_Transformations_of_Gender_and_Sexuality_in_Southeast_Asia

followed by this more substantial reference:

Proposition Six from: Thirteen general propositions about TG in Asia:

"the majority develop a sexual preference they see as being consistent with that identity – an exclusive attraction to men, and a preference for the role of insertee [...] This appears to be true in places as far apart as Oman, Myanmar, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore - and Thailand, where we have found that 91% of our sample reported an exclusive attraction to men [...] The overwhelming preference for male partners is also evident in Teh’s findings for Malaysian maknyahs"

https://www.transgenderasia.org/thirteen_general_statements.htm

I didn’t say anything about the fa'fafine, but since there’s data you can actually point to it would be different. But that’s also a very different matter than being a trans woman as I understand it.

How so?

Both: Do "transbians" exist outside the West? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Article? But the bi & pan ones I would count as gynaephiles, since gynaephiles' sexual orientation can shift to include men when on hormones.

Why assume that a third of Kathoey are all gynaephiles until proven otherwise? We are all aware of androphilic kathoey, but there doesn't appear to be any evidence of gynaephilic ones. The few mentions I could find talking about kathoey sexual orientation confirmed that they are androphiles. Why should I still assume that their sexual orientation distribution is the same as trans-womxyn in the USA? Gay men are androphiles too – is that a "universal assumption" too? If there was a different culture that grouped bi & gay men together, maybe the aforementioned could be considered a "universal assumption" to them. There is no better example of making "universal assumptions" than your Westerncentric view on the subject.

Here are some more "universal assumptions":

"With respect to participants in the replication sample, 129 (97%) fa'afafine described their sexual feelings as exclusively androphilic (Kinsey rating = 6), and the remaining 4 (3%) reported most sexual feelings toward males, but occasional fantasies about females"

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-009-9576-5

"Despite this heterogeneity in gender role presentation, fa'afafine are, with very few exceptions, exclusively androphilic"

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1475-6811.2011.01364.x

"In Western cultural contexts, male androphiles who fit this egalitarian pattern are often referred to as gay men. In contrast, in most non-Western societies, transgendered male androphilia appears to be the cultural norm. Transgendered male androphilia occurs between a male who is markedly gender-atypical and another who is more or less gender-typical for his own sex. Thus, partners adopt different social roles and do not treat each other as social equals. In many non-Western cultures, transgendered androphilic males often occupy ‘alternative’ gender role categories that are distinguished linguistically from the gender-normative categories of ‘man’ and ‘woman’. Some contemporary examples include the xanith of Oman, the hijra of India, the kathoey of Thailand, the travestí of Brazil, the fakafefine of Tonga and the fa'afafine of Samoa (Herdt 1996; Murray 2000)"

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2007.0120#d5261919e1172s

So take it up with Stephen O. Murray & Gilbert Herdt.

Reddit: If gender is a social construct. Doesn't that mean being transgender is a social construct too? by WildApples in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Of course someone mentioned the David Reimer case & of course that comment got the most upvotes & awards. Here is how to respond to it (which I have done in the replies of that comment):

Sorry to rain on your parade but David Reimer was socialised a boy for the first 2 years of his life, then sexual abuse took its place under the guise of “re-socialisation”. So the major case purported to favour felt-gender theory, did the opposite.

Conversely, the vast majority of infant males assigned female at birth & socialised accordingly did not desist:

https://sites.oxy.edu/clint/physio/article/GenderIdentityOutcomeinFemaleRaised46XYPersonswithPenileAgenesisCloacalExstrophyoftheBladderorPenileAblation.pdf

Both: Do "transbians" exist outside the West? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I should have posted the source I was working from:

"A 2015 survey of roughly 3000 American trans women showed that at least 60% were attracted to women"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_sexuality

There are other sources that confirm what you're saying, roughly (except putting bi & pan together makes that category slightly higher than 1/3), but "transbian" in those examples may not be a majority, but still a plurality. If you consider that a significant portion of trans-womxyn who are attracted to women tend to have their sexual orientation shift into bisexuality after undergoing HRT, one might include those bisexual & pansexual numbers under gynaephiles too (since bisexuality is incredibly rare, typically, especially in the male sex).

Also attraction isn’t dependent on identity. You can be any sexuality and still trans.

People always say that, but it appears to only be true in the West. I did searches using Google & Google Scholar trying to find evidence of gynaephilia & androphilia in other cultures' equivalent of trans-womxyn & all I was able to find was evidence of exclusive androphilia time & time again.

An abridged feminist perspective addressing all the major issues of the trans movement’s ideology by SnowAssMan in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Male privilege just means lack of sexism, which as the name suggests is based on sex. If the sex of a person is assumed to be female they may receive superficial sexism, but they can opt out of it any time they want, they choose not to, possibly because it isn't that bad & the fact that it's affirming is probably even soothing in a way. It's the difference between signing a contract & having a contract signed for you before you were born. At least you had a 'before' to compare the experience to.

Caitlyn Jenner is living off the largess of Bruce Jenner (not saying she is inexplicably stealth now, but you know what I mean, privilege can be far reaching). It's like if you started out rich, but then left that life to live on a farm or something. You're there because you fit in better there, it was your calling, but it was also your choice, despite it's drawbacks, which you had time to weigh up beforehand. It's like the difference between a sex worker who started at 14 out of economic desperation & a woman with a respectable degree deciding her true calling is sex work.

In your rape scenario the attack of a transgender person who passes might have been initiated because of sexism, but at some point they wouldn't pass anymore. If the attacker continues after finding out then can we be sure it wouldn't have happened had the victim not passed?

I've revised it to this (it's still under construction though):

• Transgender-males benefit from male privilege (like homophobia, transphobia does not offset male privilege), the ones who pass benefit from "cis privilege", meaning they are never more oppressed than women. Women in their natural, unfeminised state are “GNC” too

I've added this one since:

• Trans people prove that socialised gender > felt gender, otherwise they wouldn’t have to train themselves not to walk, talk, behave etc. in a gender-congruent way, nor would they have to put any effort in emulating others

And will probably add a version of this one (related to the socialised gender section):

• David Reimer was socialised a boy for the first 2 years of his life, then sexual abuse took its place under the guise of “re-socialisation”. So the only case purported to favour felt-gender theory, did the opposite. Conversely, the vast majority of infant males assigned female at birth & socialised accordingly did not desist

It's getting a bit too long at this point I think (it's over 1K words currently).

GC: Do you think saying things like "a man looks like/passes as a woman" or "a woman looks like/passes as a man" will lead to any issues? And what issues will they lead to? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If the band member in question is Asian then it's more racist (or rather Eurocentric) than anything.

An abridged feminist perspective addressing all the major issues of the trans movement’s ideology by SnowAssMan in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The trans movement's main argument is that gender is innate, like homosexuality. That may be a more psychological focus, however, there is a major focus on the biological as well, which is why TRAs keep bringing up brains, intersex, hormones etc. while socialisation has always been integral to a demographic's social existence or class, which reflects a more Marxist approach, which (2nd wave?) feminism shares. Sex is the catalyst to whether someone benefits from male privilege or has sexism to deal with instead.

It's not just sociology, but also biology that comes down to averages, for instance the average man is taller & stronger than the average woman, but that doesn't mean the shortest, weakest man is still taller & stronger than the tallest, strongest woman – which is precisely the kind of exceptions pedants (who are ubiquitous in losing arguments) like to underscore. The trends tell us that trans-womxyn are men biologically, as well as sociologically. Theirs is an ideology of gaps, I think we can afford to cover all bases, leaving no stone unturned.

The trans movement is approaching this on all fronts: on the one hand trans-womxyn are naturally/biologically/neurologically women, on the other they acquire their female-status via hormones & surgeries, while they somehow also received feminine socialisation by osmosis (even though they just so happen to always embody male-gaze femininity & never the more domestic, caregiver role that most women find themselves in).

Male and female lions have different behaviors and roles, to her that's gender.

I think that's instinct, while gender is culture, which I believe is unique to humans

With all the Orwellian qualities of trans ideology, even the coldest, hardest, most material fact can just be re-classified as its opposite.

The conspectus is meant to address all the issues of trans ideology from a feminist perspective in the most succinct way possible. It's meant to give a quick, practical overview of the ideology while deconstructing it. It's a response to trans ideology monopolising the discourse. We haven't got as much time & space, so we've got to be concise & brief. I'll publish it as a medium article. It can either be copied & pasted, or either just parts of it whenever relevant. A sort of handy social media debate tool/aide.

An abridged feminist perspective addressing all the major issues of the trans movement’s ideology by SnowAssMan in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A yes, at the start I list terms & their definitions, I should include a point defining 'natal/social gender', & then a separate point for the feminist understanding of 'felt gender'. I think it's important to distinguish between feminism's view of gender & those who believe it to be innate, in order for a conspectus on the topic to be complete.

"Socialised gender > felt gender, according to sociology" – is meant to highlight that it's backed by science. I feel I need to cover the topic of socialised gender, because of the evidence within sociology:

"Socialization theory offers a straightforward account of the acquisition of gendered identities. Infants are seen as blank slates, waiting to be written down on by their environment [...]

[...] Reinforcement (through rewarding gender-appropriate behavior and punishing what may seem as deviant behavior) socializes children into their genders [...]

[...] For example, are far more likely to engage with their sons in rough physical play than they are with their daughters, and it has been argued that long-term consequences may follow (in this case, a head start for boys in the development of physical violence and aggressiveness) [...]

[...] These types of influences can include parental attitudes and difference of treatment regarding male and female children [...]

[...] A study of infants aged 13 months found that when boys demand attention - by behaving aggressively, or crying, whining or screaming - they tended to get it. By contrast, adults tended to respond to girls only when they used language, gestures, or gentle touches; girls who used attention-seeking techniques were likely ignored. There was little difference in the communicative patterns at the start of the study, but by the age of two, the girls have become more talkative and boys more assertive in their communicative techniques"

as well as Simone de Beauvoir's central topic in The Second Sex:

"that formula [one is not born but made a woman] is the basis of all my theories & it's meaning is very simple: that being a woman is not a natural fact. It's a result of a certain history. There is no biological or psychological destiny that defines a woman as such. She is the product of a history, of civilisation, first of all, which has resulted in her current status. And secondary for each individual woman of her personal history in particular, that of her childhood. This determines her as a woman, creates in her something which is not at all innate, or an essence, something which has been called the "eternal feminine", or femininity. The more we study the psychology of children the deeper we delve, the more evident it becomes that baby girls are manufactured to become women [...] Long before a child is conscious, the way it is breastfed, or held, or rocked etc. inscribes in its body what might later appear a destiny"

I appreciate the criticism.

Still under construction:

• Felt gender is undetectable, indefinable & inconsequential (in some cases there isn’t even a superficial difference between transgender-males & men). Transgender-males desire to be female & feminine (even the most masculine-presenting ones will go by a feminine name & request feminine pronouns), but they say being female & feminine is separate from being a woman, so they lack a motivation for being a woman, since men can be female & feminine according to their ideology

• “Innate gender” is oxymoronic. Sex is innate, gender is cultural

• Natal gender/socialised gender refers to gender identity as a result of childhood socialisation. Family condition their children from birth by treating them in accordance with the cultural norms associated with their sex

An abridged feminist perspective addressing all the major issues of the trans movement’s ideology by SnowAssMan in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How about this, to really hit home the point:

• Felt gender is undetectable, indefinable & inconsequential, in some cases there isn’t even a superficial difference between transgender-males & men

A mental illness does not make something not real suddenly more real

You're forgetting:

• Being transgender is not a disorder, has no symptoms & doesn't require medical treatment, according to every culture throughout history outside the modern day West

Starting in 2022 "gender dysphoria" will cease to exist as a mental disorder. It'll be re-categorised as a "sexual condition" (like homosexuality) called 'gender incongruence', meaning there will be no basis to pathologise it anymore, not even in the West. Do you think I ought to mention that in the conspectus?

Several subreddits meant exclusively for lesbians, gay men, feminists and detrans individuals have recently been deemed by the fuckwads over at AHS as ‘transphobic’. What are your thoughts? by Smolders1 in LGBDropTheT

[–]SnowAssMan 24 insightful - 3 fun24 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Feminists (the real ones) should start identifying as witches, that way when anti-feminists start calling women witches for not following their dogma, on hearing themselves they might just attain some self-awareness.

Several subreddits meant exclusively for lesbians, gay men, feminists and detrans individuals have recently been deemed by the fuckwads over at AHS as ‘transphobic’. What are your thoughts? by Smolders1 in LGBDropTheT

[–]SnowAssMan 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What I posted (awaiting my ban):

r/detrans is about as transphobic as r/trans it's just people talking about their own personal experiences. A ban of r/detrans would be silencing detrans voices, which seems more like a political move rather than addressing hate.

Sex & gender exist, right? Subs for one gender exist, so why can't subs for one sex exist like r/biologicallesbians?

r/PinkPillFeminism is one of the last feminist sub-reddits on here (RIP r/blackpillfeminism). They never even cover transgender issues.

You're really taking the mick with r/FemaleDatingStrategy, totally off topic.

This post just seems anti-feminism more than anything. What about r/lesbians? It's just porn for straight guys with 0% transgender women. "Trans women are excluded" in your words. Well? Are you going to add r/lesbians to the list of hate subs? No? Funny that. It's almost as if you don't even believe that excluding trans-women is actually transphobic, you just pretend it is whenever convenient. You're clearly not concerned about transphobia, it's feminism you've got a problem with.

The hottest "man" in "gay" porn by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]SnowAssMan 10 insightful - 6 fun10 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Really? I thought it was a sound anime girls made, like in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mBqm8uO4Cg

An abridged feminist perspective addressing all the major issues of the trans movement’s ideology by SnowAssMan in GenderCriticalGuys

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks! Since posting I was thinking about adding:

• Felt gender is undetectable, indefinable & inconsequential

in third to last place, but don't know if that's overkill, since the current third to last place sort of covers it:

• Distinguishing between the sexes is justified, distinguishing between transgender-males who identify as women & transgender-males who identify as men is not, because differences in ideological beliefs are not material differences.

Also, in pursuit of using the most accurate terminology I have found that the term 'natal gender' exists & is more commonly used than 'socialised gender', so I'm considering amending the conspectus accordingly.

GC: Thoughts on xenogenders and neopronouns? Why should "male" and "female" not be defined to mean one's gender besides sex? And if gender identity is not a real thing, why do cis, trans, nonbinary, etc people exist who have an internal sense of whether they're male, female, both, or neither? by MissDimples in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

many trans people on twitter, discord and other places that told me this means gay men are straight women

I have a hard time believing that this is true. As much as the trans movement likes to indulge in homosexual-erasure/appropriation, what you describe seems counterintuitive in its extremity. It would mean a belief that every homosexual is trans, which I doubt is a widely held enough belief to bother with

Opinion: If you want to show that Jordan Peterson is wrong, you need to publish his book by hfxB0oyA in censorship

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So if someone follows an ideology that is wrong about everything & that same person gives advice to people on how to live their life, but ends up in rehab after accruing success from their scam--I mean self-help book, what said person has to say is somehow still valuable?

The thing about traditionalism is that we are all intimately familiar with it already. We are all taught it all the time. There is no need of a teacher. We can already guess that he has issues with Tinder & believes that monogamy & the nuclear family are what our aims ought to be, because that's just textbook traditionalism. Traditionalism – the ideology that doesn't require a text book.

P.S. P.E. teachers? You probably meant to say: coaches.

GC: Thoughts on xenogenders and neopronouns? Why should "male" and "female" not be defined to mean one's gender besides sex? And if gender identity is not a real thing, why do cis, trans, nonbinary, etc people exist who have an internal sense of whether they're male, female, both, or neither? by MissDimples in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The funny thing is we all know that they don't take this "brain sex" thing seriously. Say neurology proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that trans-womxyn have male brains, are they all going to abandon their "trans-womxyn are women" chants on those grounds? Of course not. They'll just go back to their "sex & gender are different" mantra.

Here is a study where neurologists could only sex the brains of "cis" people 82% of the time (so are 18% of them trans?), while they could sex transgender people's brains almost 70% of the time (does that mean almost 70% of trans people are cis?):

https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/30/3/1345/5542405

GC: Thoughts on xenogenders and neopronouns? Why should "male" and "female" not be defined to mean one's gender besides sex? And if gender identity is not a real thing, why do cis, trans, nonbinary, etc people exist who have an internal sense of whether they're male, female, both, or neither? by MissDimples in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for the clarification. I knew it already, but I guess my saying: "Trans people aren’t intersex, their sex is binary" implied something I didn't mean.

GC: Thoughts on xenogenders and neopronouns? Why should "male" and "female" not be defined to mean one's gender besides sex? And if gender identity is not a real thing, why do cis, trans, nonbinary, etc people exist who have an internal sense of whether they're male, female, both, or neither? by MissDimples in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sex & gender are two different things, remember?

First things first, pro-gender/anti-sex rhetoric monopolises the discourse, so we've got to clear up the discrepancies between terms & definitions that this debate invariably runs into.

Gender: masculinity, femininity

Sex: male, female

Sometimes 'gender' refers to the sexes, like 'gender reveal party' or 'gender inequality'.

Sex is binary, gender is a spectrum

Female & feminine are not the same thing

Sex & preferred sex are different in trans people

Socialised gender & felt gender are in conflict in transgender people

Trans people aren’t intersex, they are at best “intergender”, their sex is binary. Their gender is also binary for the most part (but not in an affirming way). Their gendered behavioural trends are consistent with their sex (one of my recent posts demonstrated this with links to the relevant evidence).

Using the term "assigned at birth" to describe trans people is therefore appropriation of intersex terminology. The average trans person's sex is as unambiguous as the average "cis" person's is.

The trans movement in general is set on appropriation of gender identity. Sex abolitionists insist that transgender males be referred to as women, their experiences: womanhood, their marginalisation: "transmisogyny". It even hijacked the black lives matter protests into "trans-womxyn are women" chants. It engages in parasitic activism on the regular. Just look at the state of the LGBTQ+ movement, or the progressive movement.

London taxi drivers have London taxi driver brains AFTER gaining 'the knowledge'. Get back to me once they've scanned the brains of people who haven't discovered they are trans & then used the info to accurately predicted their transition.

Gay men's brains have similarities to straight women's brains. Is this evidence that gay men are straight women? If not, why is the same information being touted as evidence that transgender males are women? Also what about the rest of the brain? Why cherry pick the bit you like? Take all the evidence together. If you are looking at a brain that has everything in common with a male brain with a tiny exception, then how does that make the person a binary woman?

Binary transgenderism is covered within academia, but there is nothing official on the other genders. They are the product of a teen sub-culture appropriating the trans identity. Think back to the 70s when everyone was obsessed with star signs, or in the early 2000s when girls were emos. On the one hand it helps to normalise transgender identities, but it also undermines them, by being illegitimate. This mostly affects girls, so even if they all detransitioned, it wouldn't cause a major upset in the trans lobby's plans, because teen girls are a demographic that no one cares about (as the general indifference to the demographic's mounting numbers over the decades of eating disorders, suicide attempts & other forms of self-harm have demonstrated).

Other than teleportation what else have sci-fi writers novels, TV & film come up with to used to get the crew on & off the planet from/to the ship? by SnowAssMan in ScienceFiction

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

thanks, but I'm looking more for something that is very quick, easy, practical, yet somewhat believable – a tall order, I know.

Opinion: If you want to show that Jordan Peterson is wrong, you need to publish his book by hfxB0oyA in censorship

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, it's more like saying: Mr. Finkledor failed his PhD, so why is he giving PhD advice? Or: Finkledor is critical of everything that isn't a conspiracy theory.

QT/Transmed: Where does gender (identity and roles) come from? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Scientific consensus > subjective opinion, therefore humans are bipeds & sex is binary, no amount of variety within dimorphism nor mismatches between chromosomes & phenotypes can alter that, because gonads & gametes are never ambiguous – which is what sex refers to, as it's integral to sexual reproduction.

Why do people think Mulan is trans? by EzukiRaen in LGBDropTheT

[–]SnowAssMan 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

My mum says the same kind of things, but she has read queer theory, which is very different to trans activist ideology. "transgender" isn't an identity per se, it's just how you refer to someone who is wearing the clothes of the opposite sex. This is also how older people use the term. It's like a synonym for gender-bending, or something like that. It's why John Barrowman called himself "the transgender TARDIS", when wearing a TARDIS dress, which trans activists got annoyed about, probably because they're all young & they've never read any queer theory.

Calling them a gay couple is a little weird though.

Stories that act as a much better metaphors for modern transgenderism are Don Quixote for transgender males & Pinocchio for transgender females.

Transgender women exhibit a male-type pattern of criminality: Implications for legislators and policy makers. by jet199 in GenderCritical

[–]SnowAssMan 26 insightful - 2 fun26 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Trans people all exhibit gendered behaviours in-line with their socialised gender, rather than their preferred gender.

2-3x the number of women attempt suicide compared to men, likewise trans-men & non-binary people (80% of whom are members of the female sex) are more than twice as likely to attempt suicide than their transgender male counterparts.

Trans-womxyn are overrepresented in media & high positions compared to trans-men – the same exact pattern as gay men vs. lesbians, straight men vs. straight women.

The transgender microcosm has the same SEXism problem as society at large. As always, the male sex is the social majority & the female sex is the social minority. And then they dare to call "prejudice" against trans-womxyn "transmisogyny". Every aspect of womanhood is being appropriated.

Why do so many people who identify as transgender also identify as gay? by JFVG in LGBDropTheT

[–]SnowAssMan 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most desisters are gay, a majority of detransitioners are gay & many vocal homophobes are gay. In addition to this, being homosexual is a form of gender non-conformity.

Put 2 & 2 together & it's likely that the reason homosexuality is overrepresented in the transgender population, because a substantial number of them are just self-hating gay people.

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If a man had been in an accident that left him looking & behaving differently from most people, would that mean he was no longer a man? Seems like cherry picking. Why do the differences point to "not man"? It could just as easily be regarded as a different sexual orientation, for instance, since transgender people are different from both gay & straight people.

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All you did was reiterate the first half of my question: that women can be male. That doesn't answer the question. My question is, if women can be male, wtf is a woman? I never asked: "who is included under the umbrella: 'woman'?" – which appears to be the question you'd much rather answer.

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Again, so we're back where we started: if women can be male then wtf is a woman? The answer to that question isn't simply restating that women can supposedly be male.

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

trans-womxyn's bodies, minds, experiences fall within the range of variability exhibited by men, but not women

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, SEXism.

QT/Transmed: Where does gender (identity and roles) come from? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Some people don't believe that it's insensitive, therefore you can't say it's insensitive, since your philosophy prevents you from saying anything that isn't 100% true, 100% of the time.

QT/Transmed: Where does gender (identity and roles) come from? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Masculinity & femininity aren't naturally occurring in men & women respectively, clearly, in general, but obviously, because there are so many human beings that there exists the possibility that a small number of people just so happen to naturally be feminine or masculine irrespective of the individuals being male or female. I feel like I've said the same thing over & over again, but somehow you're still not getting it. It's not that complicated & it's not that controversial.

QT/Transmed: Where does gender (identity and roles) come from? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So you'd take issue with someone saying that human beings don't have horns because once upon a time a single human had a horn?

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"sterile" meaning what exactly? Normally a man can be pronounced infertile even though he produces gametes. It's just that his sperm is "low quality". Are there men who don't produce gametes?

QT/Transmed: Where does gender (identity and roles) come from? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you not know what a birth defect is?

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

people who can’t produce gametes

Which people are these?

QT/Transmed: Where does gender (identity and roles) come from? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those humans are still bipedal. Neither mutation nor mutilation can change that classification, otherwise people without legs wouldn't be handicapped.

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So your "set based definition" of woman should have read: a woman is an adult human female; or an adult human male. So we are back to square one. If women can be male, wtf is a woman?

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So it went from how society treats a trans-woman to whether she has dysphoria or not. Crossdressers are women according to your now seemingly abandoned metric. Even autogynaephiles have gender dysphoria though. Are they women too?

See how trying to force trans-womxyn into the woman category doesn't work? Conversely, they sit rather comfortably in the men category, due to all the overlap between them & gay men, crossdressers, femboys, autogynaephiles etc.

QT/Transmed: Where does gender (identity and roles) come from? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

humans are bipeds despite some people being born without legs. Intersex people who are actually between the sexes are very rare. Sex is still a binary. Every mother was female & every father was male. It's integral to the reproduction method of humans.

Race is a spectrum, sex isn't.

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So now you are back-pedalling, since you have randomly decided that it's not based on treatment anymore.

I said that given the way humans live and our society operates there’s a need for categorization of natal women and trans women as a discreet group

How do you square that with still grouping Debbie Hayton in with men? Trans-womxyn have more in common with men like Debbie than they do with women.

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

lol no, that's just a definition of mammal, a "set based" definition would be to just list some mammals: bear, cow, whale. Do set based definitions only replace definitions whenever convenient?

QT: If women can be male, wtf is a woman then? What term, if any, should we use to describe the female sex? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You appear to be saying that if a disguise is effective, then it's no longer a disguise. By that logic trans-womxyn like Debbie Hayton are women, but you reject that idea. Not only do you think Debbie isn't a woman, you don't even think she is trans. What if you are a GNC woman who keeps getting misgendered? Are you a man due to how "society treats you"?