QT: a “what if” for you by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not a lot would change. At least for the part of trans people that wants to be invisible in language. Let's assume there was group of ppl wearing red overalls and they [wearing purple ones] wanted to have a red one as well to blend in. If that group suddenly decided to dye their overalls green nothing would change except that they want a green overall now. Red would just become the new purple.

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not arguing about the legalities of the case. My only gripe with it is the following.

Even in cases involving teenagers under 18 doctors may need to consult the courts for authorisation for medical intervention

Im opposed to having courts and thus a political system involved in medical treatment on a practical basis. Not a legal one. So I don't see how knowing the intrecacies of these laws would change that stance. My issue isn't with the safeguarding itself. I actually agree that it is necessary. I just don't think that involving the courts in these cases has additional benefits compared to a solution within the nhs.

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Anyways. As I have said the terms gatekeeping and safeguarding describe the same thing: rules that let those in who need it and keep those out who don't. I don't like arguing over semantics, but I think the term gatekeeping is more applicable in this situation, because getting judges involved any time another trans child below 16 seeks treatment just adds another imo unessecsry step. Because what data are these judges going to rely on. They aren't experts in the field and likely don't have the time do an in depth screening. I'm assuming they'll ask actual psychologists. If theyre going to ask them anyway you can just cut out the middle man. I have proposed this in my previous post, since I think that some gatekeeping or safeguarding is necessary. Getting courts involved just doesn't give any significant benefits, besides added costs and a dependency on the political climate in the UK. I'm not as you think, in favor of putting drugs for off label use in a public place so those who want to get access to it. I actually never said anything remotely like that. So that whole last paragraph actually addresses none of my concerns.

Also "off label" doesn't mean a lot. It just means that the manufacturer hasn't paid to test their medication for this use case in this country. In my country off Label drugs [cytotec] are given during child birth, heck all of the ones im currently using are beeing prescribed off label. It's not the big "experiment on harmless children" you make it out to be.

Honestly writing my response I feel like you're misunderstanding the issue I have with the topic. It's not that there was a trial. Its not the court mandated that safeguarding be done. It's the kind of gatekeeping that's beeing implemented, which I take issues with. Something your entire response unfortunately doesn't adress. I can gather from it that you seem to be opposed to children transitioning in any capacity, which I completely disagree with. There is no reasonable assumption that some kids wouldn't benefit from transition and that the issues of screening for them can't be solved in some capacity.

GC: Why are penises, testes, etc considered strictly male organs, and vaginas, uteruses, etc strictly female organs? What's wrong with the view that women have penises, etc too and can produce sperm, or that men have vaginas, uteruses, etc too and can get pregnant? by BubblyBrush in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's a really interesting article. I have applied for a study on the subject last year and some, but not all, of the concerns listed there where in the paper that informs you about the potential risk. Thou there was one mistake she made regarding AAs in transwomen. Thank for sharing

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What exactly makes you thin that? My knowledge is a bit rusty since Its been a few years since I actively worked with children, but I'm still pretty knowledgeable about the basics of adolescent development.

QT/Transmed: Where does gender (identity and roles) come from? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So. I think it's important to distinguish gender identity to gender roles.

Let's start with gender roles. Where do they come from?

I believe it's a mixture of nature and nurture. Women aren't as strong as men and are way less expandable from a survival standpoint. This means that in a society it would make sense to safeguard women, not sending them into wars, so a society can bounce back from loosing a war. Now depending on how society deals with this premise it can go one of two ways. In societies where strength is dominant men will be as well. In a society where wisdom is dominant woman can be, since their wisdom is less likely to be lost in war or battle.

Men becoming more dominant would then lead to women becoming more oppressed, since men want to hold onto their power. And what the easiest way to achieve that? Keep them both weak and stupid. Gender roles, roles one getts assigned by society based on sex, are one of the most important tools to keep men in power.

I'm somewhat transmed, so gender identity to me is just the identification with the other sex. What causes this? I have no idea. I have seen the hypothesis of shorter androgen receptors in trans women's brains floating around, but the studies to me seem inconclusive and I don't see a way to study this in an ethical way. So I'm open to any convincing evidence. For now, Im 80% positive it exists, but I don't know why.

Gender roles are forced on us every day. Following them stems Imo from a desire to fit in. Not many people would choose the outgroup, since it's a hassle and the immediate consequences of doing so are social. We're social animals after all.

Trans people follow the same principle, we're people after all, plus the added desire of wanting to be the other sex. If you want to be something, you'll try your best to become that, however impossible it may seem thus gender roles become a tool that helps achieving that. I don't think many people are conscious about why they do it, since they haven't thought about it a lot.

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly I started reading the document, but I can't be bothered to read pages of laws that don't apply to the discussion and are from a country I particularly care about. If you want to point me to any specific paragraphs from the law then I'd be much obliged.im aware of the UN convention however. I think the most relevant articles are 12, and 24. Thou I'd argue that 24 can be used to argue both in favor as well as in opposition of gatekeeping. This leaves us with 12 which is inconclusive as well given that it only states that the child's interests and opinion should be considered in any matter regarding the child. Which could be used to argue in favor of the clinics method, but since I don't agree with them I won't do that. If I have overlooked anything, then feel free to point that out.

Maybe you should look into the process of name change in Germany, which I used for comparison and follows exactly this process and still has the issues I outlined, since it involves judges who, beeing part of the political system - beeing appointed by the politician - does that to you - won't necessarily decide in the patients best interests.

I don't see how divorce or immigration are more applicable examples than the one I gave. A child transitioning isn't a family matter.

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wether you call it gatekeeping or protection its goal is the sale thing. Keeping minors who don't need to transition away from transition. The only difference here is perspective. Wether you argue from the side of those that have to transition aka transsexuals, or those who desist and thus would be protected by the added burocracy. I could argue your points in reverse for trans kids, but I think you can easily enough imagine that yourself. So regardless of wether you call it gatekeeping or protection, we both agree that some is necessary. Our biggest difference seems to be the kind oand amount of bureaucracy added to the process. Still waiting for any points that adress my concerns regarding this.

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey mate. Please try to keep your debates factual and engage points not people. Ad hominem isn't a great look.

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Actually a lot more then you might think. Both involve a court deciding something related to our lives. And so I expect the system to have the same issues I lined out in my previous post.

What exactly is that therapy meant to accomplish and why would you need lots of it? Also yes. I believe that kids can be trans, as in dysphoric and wanting to transition. Sure they aren't trans men or women, but they can be as transsexual.

Those are some big allegations. Why would you force someone to transition as punishment? What are they supposed to learn from that?

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't assume that judges were making any decisions. I agree that some gatekeeping is necessary when talking about minors. My concern is more about the kind of gatekeeping beeing done here. Involving judges just doesn't have any tangible benefit over getting a recommendation by an actual expert in the field. Heck make these a few and regulate who gets to write these. I simply expect more issues to come out from having judges make these decisions, as I laid out, then when not involving them. So I agree with the spirit of the ruling but not the letter.

GC: Do you genuinely desire to have more trans men in public positions (i.e. acting, politics)? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm sorry you had to go through that and that you don't feel welcome here. All we ask is for is that you're more mindfull in the way you word your opinios, especially when making blanket statements.

QT: Why are people not allowed to feel disappointed when someone transitions? by questioningtw in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe it's easier for me since I have never stopped thinking these thoughts and my "role model" if you can call it that, never really changed. But I agree that there is no objective understanding here. Internal stuff like motivation will always be subjective.

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't doubt that they are judges with experience in the UK. It's the same in Germany. All of the judges who deal with this stuff have experience in the field. This does not mean that they don't treat trans people vastly different. Getting a name change in Bavaria is a nightmare due to judges handling the cases beeing sexist as fuck. In more liberal states like Hamburg or Berlin it's really simple, maybe even to simple.

GC: Do you genuinely desire to have more trans men in public positions (i.e. acting, politics)? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal[M] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Please keep in mind that this sub is for both QT and GC users to debate. This requires some respect for our believes, so blanket calling a side delusional doesn't fly here.

GC: Do you genuinely desire to have more trans men in public positions (i.e. acting, politics)? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Cuz all trans men are delusional? Or isn't that the logical conclusion from your statement?

QT: Why are people not allowed to feel disappointed when someone transitions? by questioningtw in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My transition isn't motivated by gender though. When I first wanted to transition I was still naive enough to assume that gender didn't matter.

QT: Why are people not allowed to feel disappointed when someone transitions? by questioningtw in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. Absolutely.

QT: Why are people not allowed to feel disappointed when someone transitions? by questioningtw in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The thing is, that its not a sexist society that makes me want to transition. Not sure if you know the WEBTOON fluidum. Even if we lived in a society like that, I'd still want to transition [if the body thing wasn't in that comic]

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm sad and angry. While puberty blockers are a sensitive topic I don't think the courts should get involved in medical decisions. Judges don't have the expertise to make that decision. This will lead to judges either making decisions for political reasons, thus preventing treatment for those who need it or theyll leave the decision to an expert opinion which is most likely positive but costly for the paitent.

This means that transition is likely to be gatekept by either location [and thus the deciding judge] or money. A situation we have with name changes in my country.

QT: Why are people not allowed to feel disappointed when someone transitions? by questioningtw in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

It's complicated. My sentiment toward my old self is that he is dead. Shouldn't have existed in the first place and only came to be because a little kid was too afraid to speak up.

I can understand why someone I knew before I transitioned would be disappointed. But I don't care and if they express that feeling towards me, then yes I am offended. My life has nothing to do with you and I don't owe you any say in it. Because you obviously don't know me well enough that you should. That beeing said I don't think that I have changed that much. Or at least not more than cis people change over the years. Keep in mind that that my perspective on my transition.

In general I think it's okay to feel what you feel. But before you express those feelings to someone you might want to ask yourself if you're actually close enough to the person who wants to transition to have any say in it.

Ashton Challenor, the boy who disappeared - trans identified Aimee Challenor by emptiedriver in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sure. And that's the issue. From her fetish we can not make any assumptions about her policies. Fetishists aren't alike.

Ashton Challenor, the boy who disappeared - trans identified Aimee Challenor by emptiedriver in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe and maybe. You can not tell the difference from the outside. And thats the point both of these might happen. I don't see how "pretending" to be trans would grant you greater legitimacy outside of very specific circles. Maybe the US is different there, but from what I read in trans circles acceptance is generally low outside a few liberal areas.

Ashton Challenor, the boy who disappeared - trans identified Aimee Challenor by emptiedriver in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's character assassination because her fetishes don't qualify or disqualify as a leader on their own. Her actions regarding her father [thanks for the comers who provided me with additional info] did, but that's not what the article devoted most of its length to. So yeah I call that character assassination.

Its quite simple to untangle them. Trans rights are one topic, how communitys, any communitys deal with fetishists is another. I

I don't think going no true Scotsman is a valid way of thinking. So I won't argue that someone is or isn't trans based on their fetishes or other characteristics that I might find disturbing. So I assume she is trans but also into age play.

I think the reason I and maybe other people don't worry about it as much is that age play and infantilization itself isn't an issue. Pedophilia is, and while her boyfriend might be into that i at least haven't seen any evidence that she has that particular paraphilia. And yes these two are different.

Personally i think that it's likely that she was abused as a child which might have something to do with her fetish, kinda the way that rape victims can develop a rape kink. Wether or not she is trans because of the abuse is not something anyone, besides her therapist, can actually answer.

Why isn't that something that trans rights advocates are worried over unless they want to advocate for pedophilic fetishists as well?

This is the main reason why I think that you can't really conflate these two topics, because the topic should be explored more nuanced than that. Do I think that trans people with like her deserve the same rights as any trans person on the planet? Yes. Does that mean that avocation for Trans people and infantilization fetishists is the same? Nope.

Ashton Challenor, the boy who disappeared - trans identified Aimee Challenor by emptiedriver in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Yes the lines fall together here and you can argue both trans rights and paraphilia at the same time.

But these are still different topics and should be treated as such. Treating them as the same topic or anything more then incidentally connected is fallacious at best.

So her paraphernalia and her beeing trans - and thus a trans rights advocate - should be separated for the sake of nuanced discussion even if they are intertwined in the person.

I personally consider age play between adults unproblematisch. I dont like it, quite the contrary, especially infantilization, but as long as it stays between adults it's unproblematic.

Ashton Challenor, the boy who disappeared - trans identified Aimee Challenor by emptiedriver in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In our current society it's definitely not a smart move to be open about your fetish while running for any public office. Fetish shaming is still ubiquitous, which is the reason why the community is really tight knit and most sites actively warn about posting identifying pictures. I think that that's wrong, because what gets doesn't have any impact on how well you can do other stuff.

That's honestly new information to me. Thanks for bringing it up.

Ashton Challenor, the boy who disappeared - trans identified Aimee Challenor by emptiedriver in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Auto correction. paraphilia. Im on my phone and sometimes it just defaults to my native language.

I don't consider it to be any more intertwined with trans rights, than with gay rights. These are issues that coexist. And they don't need to be argued or solved together. Quite the contrary. I think these should be discussed speratly as the lines don't fall together.

QT: What happens when another culture's idea of gender does not align with your idea of gender? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sure. I think it falls on the nby to be both lenient and open about their identity and on the other culture to be open about it. Running around people who never heard it l to understand the concept would just be frustrating

QT: What happens when another culture's idea of gender does not align with your idea of gender? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't belive in objective morality. The question basically comes down to how much a culture has to respect someone who is visiting it.but honestly the rule of thump for these cases is simple.

The culture should try to ease a foreigner inside of the culture where possible, but respect their boundaries when told. Let's assume a group of Japanese ambassadors visited France during the end of Japanese isolation. While France should show them the way around, help them to fit in where possible and ask them to respect their norms the same goes the other way around. They should not ask these samurai to part with their swords during the visit for example, since these are personal symbols whose significance the French just can not understand.

Ashton Challenor, the boy who disappeared - trans identified Aimee Challenor by emptiedriver in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I personally consider pedophilia a paraphernalia not a sexual orientation. But I think that there is a difference between diddeling kids and role-playing your fetish with a consenting adult. This goes for many fetishes.

I don't think forced therapy works. If someone said that they can't live out their paraphilic fantasies in play I'd suggest they see a therapist. The whole topic is complicated and you're navigating a fine line between what is okay and what's not.

Ashton Challenor, the boy who disappeared - trans identified Aimee Challenor by emptiedriver in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So. Reading through this character assassination I have two things to say.

1) she should have informed the party once she was aware of what her father did. It seems like she didn't do that and that's a big failure on her part.

2) Bringing up her fetishes is a completely different topic. I don't think these belong into a piece on her political failings. But maybe that's coming from someone heavily involved in some kink communities.

QT: What happens when another culture's idea of gender does not align with your idea of gender? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Other cultures do their thing. There is nothing inherently bad about that. But that culture would face the same problem that western societies face. I'm a woman. Not a third gender created for me by someone else. So if someone from that culture would label me kathoey then I'm sorry but they are wrong. And id probably tell them that. If someone else is fine with that, then great but I'm not.

Its similar with nbys. If you call a female nby a woman because that's what culture assigns based on their appearance, then you're wrong.

Gender is, and that much GC and I agree, always an issue as soon as it's assigned.

GC: What is the best or most important thing trans people or transsexuals can do to help you? by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Out yourself to your friends.should I give them my medical history? Mental health checks? Criminal record as well?

So I came across this online, comparing trans ideology and some of the go to comments to religion. Just thought it was interesting. May be bothersome, if I’m being honest. by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't expect her to answer for the GC movement. Just for how parrales to religion can be found in GC as well as QT. For that I quoted Sheila Jeffreys.

I wasn't aware Yaniv had enough influence to speak infront of legislative bodies? Sorry but Jeffreys isn't anyone.

What does the failure of TRAs to change the Gender Recognition Act mean for the future of self-ID? Could things be changing? by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's actually Suprisingly low. I must have missed that part.

2k is what it is in my country to get stuff changed.

The legitimacy or illegitimacy of self-identification as the opposite sex (more colloquially but incorrectly known as "gender identity") aside, distinguishing between the sexes is justified, but distinguishing between trans-women & men isn't by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Not sure where you got the "not recommended for infant consumption" part from. No article I can find on the subject mentions that. Actually quite the opposite.

Maybe we're talking different cases? Mine is from. 2018. Best article is in the NYT. Also male nipple discharge may not be the best term to Google this topic.

What does the failure of TRAs to change the Gender Recognition Act mean for the future of self-ID? Could things be changing? by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know how much the costs were slashed. If it was significant, so that it's affordable for young people, then Its something. But somehow I doubt it. Changing a document shouldn't cost 2k or more.

QT but all can comment - How would you refute the argument that The phrase "transwomen are women" presupposes that there is a cultural role for women to fill? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's exactly my point. Patterns exist. So they can be used for passing regardless of expectations.

So I came across this online, comparing trans ideology and some of the go to comments to religion. Just thought it was interesting. May be bothersome, if I’m being honest. by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Really? Even if that person is influencial enough to speak infront of legislative bodies? I'm not quoting some random Twitter argument here.

I would like to bring receipts for the therapy thing, but the GC subreddits got deleted, so I'm not sure where to get them. And ovarit isn't a website I visit regularly. Maybe my impression of the GC movement is tainted by the old GCdebatesQT crowd. But having been there for I think 3 years I doubt it.

So I came across this online, comparing trans ideology and some of the go to comments to religion. Just thought it was interesting. May be bothersome, if I’m being honest. by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not referring to Sloane. I'm referring to to the GC movement and how parallels to religion can be drawn based on GC speeches as well. My comment made that quite clear.

If you want receipts look up Sheila Jeffrey's.

The legitimacy or illegitimacy of self-identification as the opposite sex (more colloquially but incorrectly known as "gender identity") aside, distinguishing between the sexes is justified, but distinguishing between trans-women & men isn't by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

It's not fallacious. I don't expect you to know of the case where a trans woman was able to breast feed [after a strict hormone regiment, but that's to be expected]. But Id expect you to be curious and Google search, before calling bullshit.

QT but all can comment - How would you refute the argument that The phrase "transwomen are women" presupposes that there is a cultural role for women to fill? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks. That was really helpful.

I think the core of my confusion was a misunderstanding of the word stereotype. In my mind a stereotype is something that is enforced. Where you expect everyone to be like that. Things that exist without expectation are patterns. The voice example fits great here. The voice thing is a pattern. Just because deep female voices are rare compared to higher ones. Vice versa for males.

The stereotype in media, that certain people sound a certain way doesn't really help. But I hope you understand what I'm getting at.

Tbese patterns would, at least imo still exist in a post gender world. Though we may not now what exactly these patterns would look like.

QT but all can comment - How would you refute the argument that The phrase "transwomen are women" presupposes that there is a cultural role for women to fill? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed. As I said. I doubt the patterns would be the same. But I'm more or less certain theyll exist. And if they do, then they can be used for passing. Not to mention the obvious biological differences between male and female which will stay the same.

So I came across this online, comparing trans ideology and some of the go to comments to religion. Just thought it was interesting. May be bothersome, if I’m being honest. by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The formating got screwed up. Handmaid, male. Tried to make a list but it seems saidit doesn't like that. So sorry.

You don't, but you call them "dangerous", "poison" or "parasites" and I only have to quote one prominent UK GC feminist. Maybe the Christianity comparison is lacking, but language of disgust is used by many cluts and cult like organizations.

Why does GC advocate for therapy instead of transition then? Or am I just mistaken here? Also making the bar to transition unreasonably high is pretty much the same.

Does GC feminism include trans men? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have never said that womenhood has nothing to do with biology. These two are quite intertwined, but not inseparable. That's the difference here. I never said this point so I don't have to discuss its merit. You on the other hand argued the narrative your movement pushes so you should be able to defend its merit. But it seems you can not. There is also the issue that you're in the majority, but that's beside the point, because I believe that no matter the size, the tactics should be the same, so I'd criticize you the same even if you were the minority.

This is kinda like a catholic pushing for anti protestant legislation and including them as Christians. Sure they might disagree, but if they agreed with us, they would benefit.

The world radical itself does not relate to class analysis. It's way simpler. The world radical when talking about a movement simply indicates that it seeks fundamental change to achieve its goal. There is no reason you can't seek this fundamental change for female while not throwing transsexuals under the bus.

The legitimacy or illegitimacy of self-identification as the opposite sex (more colloquially but incorrectly known as "gender identity") aside, distinguishing between the sexes is justified, but distinguishing between trans-women & men isn't by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

FYI:

Trans women can breast feed. Not as easily as cis women but they can't. Saying their breast are purely asthetic isnt correct.

The legitimacy or illegitimacy of self-identification as the opposite sex (more colloquially but incorrectly known as "gender identity") aside, distinguishing between the sexes is justified, but distinguishing between trans-women & men isn't by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

The trivial, purported differences between trans-women & men are inconsequential.

Largely depends on the field. Honestly no. They are not. There are actual physical differences between these two groups, so saying they are just as different as gay men is dishonest.

So I came across this online, comparing trans ideology and some of the go to comments to religion. Just thought it was interesting. May be bothersome, if I’m being honest. by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The same can be written up for any movement. Just a few examples:

Heritic equals handmaid Male is the new original sin Autogynophilia is the new degenerecy

Its tribalism you'll find in any movement.

Does GC feminism include trans men? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If this forum existed in a vacuum then the merit of your opinion does not matter. But it doesn't. Both of us are part of movements. These movements push ideas, with the goal of legislation. That's why it's important to discuss wether an opinion matters. Once you're part of a movement, this stuff gets important. This isn't about you personally. It's about your movement.

SInce that' s never going to happen, they are included..

This would make sense if GC feminism was the only branch of feminism. It is not. So saying that you include them because they are female, while distancing from feminism that includes them as females and transsexuals is hollow.

What does the world radical mean then?

QT but all can comment - How would you refute the argument that The phrase "transwomen are women" presupposes that there is a cultural role for women to fill? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

None are inherent. All of them are currently influenced by gendered society. But would they die down if this external influence ceased? I don't think so. Trends would still exist. Take a big group of people and you'll always see a pattern.

We might not be able to predict what this pattern looks like, but its quite certain that it would exist. Or do you think that everything would be more or less homogeneous?

Does GC feminism include trans men? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And why would you be more correct? Beeing neither affected not an expert?

your opinion is that I should shut up about anything that doesn' t come directly from personal experience?

If you aren't either that or educated your opinion holds almost no weight. You can have your own opinion. But once you put your opinion above those who are more familiar, that is the issue. Not sure what tantrum you're throwing. So let me ask again. Why is you're opinion more deserving to be heard than those affected or those of experts? Why can your opinion push for legislation over these? Incidentally this is the reason why I care. Your opinion wants to change something. That's why I care.

if someone became a democrat, he would be included in the democratic party. Be that person Donald Trump or anyone else

Would it then be reasonable to say he is included now?

Your conflating GC and radical feminism. These two aren't the same. You can be radical and include trans women in your feminism. Just because a lot of UK feminists went down the GC route does not mean it's the only one.

Does GC feminism include trans men? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're not the majority of the GC movement. Or the vocal part that actually pushes for legislation infront of the UK parliament. That part can't possibly include any transsexual wether man or woman.

I'm not sure about the plastic surgery part. The issue is, that your movement is pushing the idea that trans people are delusional or forced [by the patriarchy]. This means, that no transsexual would be allowed surgery for transition. So if a movement say "surgery is okay as long as they are able to make the decision themselves" while at same time pushing that the people who seek them out aren't able to make that decision, seems dishonest. Please don't feel attacked. I doubt you think we are delusional. It's just that once looked at in the context of the movement the point looses a lot of weight.

QT but all can comment - How would you refute the argument that The phrase "transwomen are women" presupposes that there is a cultural role for women to fill? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How? Patterns exist. You can eliminate the harmful mindset that is sexism but not the pattern.

QT but all can comment - How would you refute the argument that The phrase "transwomen are women" presupposes that there is a cultural role for women to fill? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have two major questions in this case.

1) what is a stereotype and when is it sexist 2) what would a post stereotype world look like.

Also. If a trans woman transitions early she could easily pass, the later the more effort is needed, but still possible, even without coding

QT but all can comment - How would you refute the argument that The phrase "transwomen are women" presupposes that there is a cultural role for women to fill? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your questions seem strange to me. It seems like the prerequisite for these is that any understanding of womanhood, even one based in sex, is sexist as long is it exists on a social level. Unfortunately it's impossible to eliminate the social level.

Yes it does. Not biologically mind you, but socially.

Does GC feminism include trans men? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The big difference is that, while if GC won conservative women would still exist trans men wouldn't.. We're talking about a group that sees the very existence of transsexualism as a human rights violation. It's not that trans men don't want to be associated with you.

QT but all can comment - How would you refute the argument that The phrase "transwomen are women" presupposes that there is a cultural role for women to fill? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Our current understanding is sexist. I have already addressed that even if reduced to sex, the concept of cultural understanding and belonging would not change. Just the bar for passing.

Does GC feminism include trans men? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry I fumbled an the last comment isn't all I had to say. I'll delete it later.

That goes both ways. That' s the point

How does this relate to the issue ad hand. I'm afraid I don't understand what you're getting at.

I don' t and I don' t care. As I already said, I don' t give a damn about the reasons why they do it, all I care about is that they do it.

So if you don't know, why do you assert that someone is? What makes you, who is unknowing, able to speak on these issues in way that deserves to be heard? Why do you care about what they do?

Then they are included as a technicality.

The same technicality by which German nationalists include immigrants. If that's your bar for inclusion, then the democrats include Donald trump. If he became a Democrat theyd probably include him. He is an American after all.

You know what they should do to be 100% honest? Give up on the rights that women have fought and gained and start from zero to get their own. That includes things like abortion.

What does this have to do with honesty? I'm sorry but I don't get it. Is everyone dishonest who profits from something they or their groups hasn't fought for? Are the Harlem hellfighters dishonest for accepting French medals and profiting on the lack of prejudice in the French army? They as Americans haven't done anything to achieve it after all?

admitting themselves that they are included in GC/radfem feminism.

Because GC has a monopoly on abortion? Or is that because you see urself as the follow up to second wave UK feminism? Also GC and Radfems arent synonymous so don't use them like they are.

Does GC feminism include trans men? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why do you care what other people do so much?

Does GC feminism include trans men? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Just because your movement isn't big enough to silence trans men does not mean that you guys aren't trying to speak over them. Let's just assume you guys were the dominant force. Then the dominant narrative would be, that trans men want to escape misogyny.

The argument of "im just sharing my opinion" is a tired one. Sure you can share it. Doesn't make it correct. If you want to create a narrative that does not reflect reality, then go ahead. But don't say you include those whose reality your narrative is not reflecting.

How do you know someone is a self hating lesbian and not a dysphoric dude?

If GCs include trans men, then the word includes has no meaning beyond a technicality.

QT/Trans/TRA - What reciprocal courtesy or labor do you extend to GC who will honor your pronouns? (but everyone can comment) by divingrightintowork in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's not more of less disrespectful than he or she. If you know the person isn't going be they and you use it anyways then there's no difference. If you don't it's another story but I think I said that already.

Sure. But if you can't talk to them respectfully without betraying your ideals then the logical step is to avoid them as much as possible. I personally swallow my pride when I have to interact, but not everyone does that.

Does GC feminism include trans men? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

We don' t speak over them, they are free to say whatever they want about their reasons. We do, however, have the right to have and voice an opinion

Technically you can say anything. You have the right to say that. But once you try to replace someone's actual experience with your opinion you're indeed speaking over them. You're also invalidating them by cramming their experience to fit your world view. It's not that different from saying "she's just hysterical".

P. S.: that's the broadest possible application of included I can imagine. To that point its almost meaningless.

QT but all can comment - How would you refute the argument that The phrase "transwomen are women" presupposes that there is a cultural role for women to fill? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The question you're asking only comes up when you ridgedly apply biology to both culture and language. While trans women aren't female and trans men aren't male they can still move through society as men or women respectively. Do we have a shared cultural understanding of what a man is? Yes. This understanding is, like any shared knowledge vague and no individual will conform to it completely. Even if we reduced cultural understanding to sex, then trans people could still exist. The bar for passing would be a lot higher admitetly but that's beside the point.

QT/Trans/TRA - What reciprocal courtesy or labor do you extend to GC who will honor your pronouns? (but everyone can comment) by divingrightintowork in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I personally don't consider it restrictive to avoid people you can't adress respectfully. That's a self imposed restriction after all.

OT: If anyone's still on Reddit, there's a new kink debate sub by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks. I'll join just so there is a pro kink side to actually debate :X

QT/Trans/TRA - What reciprocal courtesy or labor do you extend to GC who will honor your pronouns? (but everyone can comment) by divingrightintowork in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I personally don't consider they a compromise. I mean using it for unknowns sure, but else you should use preferred ones.

QT/Trans/TRA - What reciprocal courtesy or labor do you extend to GC who will honor your pronouns? (but everyone can comment) by divingrightintowork in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I changed from t*rf to GC which is honestly really comparable in terms of effort aka not a lot after a while. I also adopt other terms like natal instead of cis when talking to GC individuals. If you think that using correct pronouns is as degrading as kotowing to an extremist cult, then you should probably just avoid interacting with trans people all together.

Both: What do you admire about women? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nothing? There are many women I admire for what they have done, despite beeing women. But there none I admire for beeing women.

Trans people: Do you feel welcomed by the current trans movement? by Rae in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly yes. Sure I disagree with them on some stuff, like when you should transition, but I try to express that opinions in a polite way and haven't yet encountered major opposition.

Reddit response to a post about a trans identified male saying that when wombs become available he'll use them to make white babies. Antifa sub members are surprised and disappointed that trans fascism exists by Immortallogic in censorship

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Mentally ill ≠ delusional.

Just a friendly reminder how these words actually work.

Huh this is a whole.... hole..... Rape victim argues being raped by a TW is no different than being raped by a W? (I disagree but please discuss!) by divingrightintowork in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not denying that. In my albeit limited experience I just don't see that much of an "put her in her place", which I consider essential when calling something class warfare. I'm not denying that women's oppression enables rape to be as prevelant as it is, Im just not convinced that it's a weapon in class warfare as much as a direct consequence, at least in the western world. If we think globally then I agree.

Well. You would be an object of female pleasure, so yeah that's obvious.

Huh this is a whole.... hole..... Rape victim argues being raped by a TW is no different than being raped by a W? (I disagree but please discuss!) by divingrightintowork in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not sure if you can call male on female rape class warfare, at least in most western cases. Then again I'm most familiar with date/opportunistic rape, so maybe my experience is just to limited overall.

What do you mean by second trauma? Also rarity doesn't mean it mean a crime doesn't exist or is less bad than the more prevelant one.

GC: With the potential for future advancements in medical technology, what does this mean for the immutability of biological sex? by transwoman in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry for answering this late. Was kind busy. I'm aware why sex was decoupled from gender and I agree with the sentiment second wave feminism puts forward. I'm just confused why you link these two again. Imo somone is female regardless of socialization and if woman is adult human female, then male socialized women could exist, albeit unlikely in current society, and someone undergoing a perfect sex change would actually be a woman/man. Imo this follows logically from the premise that womanhood is only about sex. Or am I completely misunderstanding you?

GC: With the potential for future advancements in medical technology, what does this mean for the immutability of biological sex? by transwoman in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So woman isn't just about sex? Assume there is a nation that has a matriarchal society due to some great equalizer that makes women stronger than men. It's basically the same as our society, but the sex classes are reversed. Let's call that country Matrica. Would a trans woman undergoing a complete medical sex change from this society be a woman in the US?

Huh this is a whole.... hole..... Rape victim argues being raped by a TW is no different than being raped by a W? (I disagree but please discuss!) by divingrightintowork in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In all the accounts I have read a weapon was never involved.

None obviously. So if the dude had a vasectomy or was chemically sterile it wouldn't be rape? Why does the penis matter again?

Wether or not a crime has been committed en mass by another tangentially related group shouldn't matter. Or is a nazi killing a black dude more murder than a hindu killing a black dude?

GC: With the potential for future advancements in medical technology, what does this mean for the immutability of biological sex? by transwoman in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I always thought sex was only physical. Is a male socialized woman not female? I'm pretty confused right now. If you want to argue that they'll never be like women, because they lack the socialization then let me ask you the question: what is a woman if not an adult human female?

Huh this is a whole.... hole..... Rape victim argues being raped by a TW is no different than being raped by a W? (I disagree but please discuss!) by divingrightintowork in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly I agree. Yes if her wife was female, then she might have been able to fight back. But if I murder you it doesn't matter if I use a gun, poison or pummel you to death. Murder is murder regardless of the tools used. And for the GC crowd saying "rape is only with a penis" im sorry that law Is stupid as fuck. Don't @ me. Female rape happens. And if you read the victims accounts, then I don't see much of a difference between the two.

It doesn't matter what you're raped with in the same way it does not matter what you're murdered with.

Both: Do you think drag is offensive or problematic? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I may disagree. If the joke was degrading women because of their femininity I would totally get behind that. It's not something they choose for themselves so making any joke about the oppressed class based on its oppression Is cruel. But sexual femine expression does not do that. No matter how oversexualized, which honestly is a nebulous term at best. Where is the line between sexualized and oversexualized?

Both: Do you think drag is offensive or problematic? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think women are well within their rights to complain about GNC men or transwomen who don't do it respectfully and/or over-sexualized it.

Why? If gnc men or transwomen wanna look like hell on wheels, or just wanna be sexy in general, what's wrong with that? Is beeing sexy in a feminine way exclusive to females? Or am I missing some context?

Both: What is the story or meaning behind your username? Why did you choose it? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I often just choose whats going on in my head.

The Quetzal is a bird and a symbol of freedom, because it can't be held in captivity.. Porcelain is fragile yet beautiful. I thought of a username and this was the first thing that came to mind.

Correction made in major paper supporting the benefits of cross-sex surgeries, stating no actual benefit by divingrightintowork in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks. I'll read up once I have the time.

Germany offers all of these as well. And yes they are great to have and I'm pretty grateful for it, but trans acceptence is still meh overall, which I consider to be an Important factor from a mental health standpoint. I don't know if Sweden is better or worse when it comes to that.

Correction made in major paper supporting the benefits of cross-sex surgeries, stating no actual benefit by divingrightintowork in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have read many studies like this and honestly I'm not surprised. These studies don't look at the efficacy of GRS regarding bottom dysphoria, which is what GRS is designed to help with, but looks at mental health, specifically anxiety and depression. From my own experience I can say that GRS does not help with these, so I'm not surprised about these findings. It still did a ton regarding my bottom dysphoria, but Im a bundle of different issues and it's definitely not a cure for any of these. I'll have to read up on Swedens trans environment, but I fear I im not qualified to argue for or against that without any first hand experience.

To bad I don't have access to the correction, since It would have been interesting to read.

Both: Has anyone checked out Ovarit? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don't worry. I was just joking around a bit ;) and I'm pretty sure we interacted, because I knew pretty much all the regulars.

Its not to bad, but I miss a few people that didn't come with us. Mostly snarky tbh.

Both: Has anyone checked out Ovarit? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I checked out their rules and guidelines and I was surprised that they seemed kinda fair for what they were trying to accomplish. Enforcement is another thing, since they are the same mods as r/GC I'm afraid it will devolve into the same toxic echo chamber and the mods have a history of letting things slide their new rules explicitly forbid. But maybe I'm wrong. I'm not desperate enough for entertainment right now to find see how it develops thou.

I mean I could apply, but why would I? Old r/GC was one of the most toxic places someone like me could visit and I doubt they will create a discussion circle als gcdebatesqt.

Both: Has anyone checked out Ovarit? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed. Unfortunately I don't have any friends to invite but being more than one would be neat.

Both: How religious is your family? What effect do you think they've had on your views? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you wanna do more research on them: regnum christ for the laymen and legionaries of christ for the priests. There is also a youth organization called ECYD and NET where I was active most of the time.

Both: How religious is your family? What effect do you think they've had on your views? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

My family went from strict catholic to joining a catholic cult. While my parents themselves were actually really liberal when I was young [that changed a lot later. Now they pretty much aren't but at least they don't bother me with It], the congregation I was in definitely wasn't. Thus I had enormous fear of God and hell, which basically kept me in the closet for the better part of my life. Took me years to actually overcome that fear once i accepted that I am trans even though I had been an atheist for almost 5 years by that point.

Besides that I never had any issues with trans/gay people. I never thought they would burn in hell. Don't ask me why I thought I would. I even debated a few of the cult priests during my time in that cult. Just because I couldn't understand how a God of love can call love a sin.

I don't think that my upbringing has affected my views. It has affected my personal relationship with theses issues a lot thou, so guess the jury is still out on this one.

Both: What are your feelings on BDSM and the sex-positivity movement? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why is the reenactment of evil in a safe environment evil? Does the same go for plays or movies? Or is it l just the use of an evil backdrop for sexual context that's bad? If yes why is that okay for other things, but not for sex?

I won't argue about wether or not hurting someone for pleasure is bad, because you're entitled to your own morals. I just wanted to remind you, that bdsm does not have to involve pain.

Both: How do you score on this gender role test? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Since femininity as concept is sexist its not surprising that beeing an introvert is considered feminine, especially in the western world [I don't know enough about the east to make any judgment]

Women were always expected to sit back, listen and were expected to care wether someone liked them or not. Introverted and likable describe these really well imo.

Both: What are your feelings on BDSM and the sex-positivity movement? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not really. Simply playing out these desires does not say anything about people who play them out. It's how you do it that says everything. The line between abusive asshole and caring Dom is respect for the person you play with both outside and during play. Is there any aftercare? Is he able to snap out of the scene at an instant. Is she willing to ease you into a scene if you aren't yet ready? Is she making her own lines absolutely clear? Does she negotiate the scene with you beforehand? Etc. Etc.

These things make a huge difference and say a lot about who that person is outside of play. Having a certain kink does not say more about the person than wether or not they like oral sex.

doesn't excuse the people who happily abuse others

I completely agree with the sentiment, but I fear our definition of abuse is different.

Both: What are your feelings on BDSM and the sex-positivity movement? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

On one hand im just not satisfied unless I get it the way I need and on the other I can't really think about anything else unless I'm satisfied. I'm aware that this is really pathetic on so many levels, but I honestly can't help it.Due to my past and dysphoria I can just set aside this craving most of the time, but if I actually have sex It usually doesn't leave me satisfied. Maybe it's a fetish, but I don't need it to get aroused so I'm honestly not sure.

Both: What are your feelings on BDSM and the sex-positivity movement? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just out of curiosity. What aspects of bdsm are considered vanilla these days? I've been part of the kink community for too long I guess.

Both: How do you score on this gender role test? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

33% Masc 44%Fem putting me in the Undifferentiated-Androgynous category. I'm not surprised.

Both: What are your feelings on BDSM and the sex-positivity movement? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes and no. Maybe. It's complicated. I can't say that I have no moral qualms with what most people would consider problematic like rape or setting a scene in Auschwitz. But I don't consider the act of playing out these scenes itself immoral at all. The bigger issue for me personally is when people start to boast about these scenes outside of kink places. While it's usually understood in the kink community that setting a scene during the Holocaust is mostly set dressing or the play during that scene to spark both the sub and Doms imagination, this is likely lost in more vanilla spaces and could take the focus of the actual tragedies that occurred during this time.

The reason why I don't judge people who engage in this sort of play might be, because I myself have kinks that would easily be considered immoral. Especially given my personal history my testimony on these might be used by bad actors to justify their harm of innocent people. I have seen a few people in my kinks community express the sentiment and while some shot them down immediately others weren't as quick call out their frankly horrible sentiments.

The reason I don't judge those seeking to play out their kinks is because, at least for me, my kink isn't as much a want as it is a need. It's something I'm struggling with quite often and I have done things that I am not proud of to get my fix. The only person harmed was me, just to be clear.

Appeal for moderators by Elly in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes exactly. Have been on the old one for around 2 years between 2 accounts. I can dm you the names, maybe you remember.

Potentially both: Caitlyn Jenner was awarded the Woman of the Year award in 2015 by Glamour, who do you believe should have won it instead? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know shit about the magazine or the awards it's giving out? How prestigious are these awards?

Both: How do you feel about this interpretation of gender? by BrNated in GCdebatesQT

[–]Porcelain_Quetzal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's basically the gender is based in perception point most transmeds including me make when talking about the concept.