How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it is dangerous to not voice one's discomfort and fears. It can lead to very dangerous and abusive situations. And the fact that there is backlash for speaking up is really concerning to me.

"FLEURISTA" presents: Thank You- A Retrospective of Commonality, Connection & Changing Minds (Art exhibition featuring GCdebatesQT) by Fleurista in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

late reply but congrats!

I heard Kathleen Stock on the radio saying she had an affinity with the masculine. What did she mean by this? by theory_of_this in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sounds like she was pointing out that she isn't completely oblivious to trans people's idea of gender identity, that she does have a inkling of understanding of what they are talking about.

Or does she view it as independent of sex?

She says earlier in the interview that gender identity is different from sex, and that not everyone has a gender identity.

Rape by deception and “Passing” by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

bruh, you can't be for real 😂

About the origins of the word "gender" by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And I think transactivists have took full advantage of the confusion between sex and gender.

Oh for sure. The way they're retroactively redefining sex-based things as gender-based is so sneaky. If they were honest about wanting to changed things to be gender-based, that'd be fair game. But claiming things were always gender-based is just deceitful.

Tra/qt how is ‘examine your genital preference’ not homosexual conversion therapy? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm kinda surprised trans activists haven't tried to make a "genital preference deconstruction workshop" yet. They did make the cotton ceiling workshop after all.

All: Is gender identity falsifiable? If so, what would disprove it? by Penultimate_Penance in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think its falsifiable because all we have to show for it is people's personal testimonies. And it seems to be exclusively trans and QT aligned people's testimonies, so that doesn't really help. I have no problem believing trans people feel a certain way about their gender, but I don't think we can say anything about where that feeling comes from or if it means anything. And we certainly can't say everyone has a gender identity because some people clearly don't.

GC: What do you think about the concept of peaking people? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same here. Used to be QT but as I learned more about what they actually believe, I could no longer accept it. I wonder if their beliefs are even sustainable in the long run. I mean, they can't even agree on a definition of woman. Not to mention they're just plain wrong about biological facts.

Everything else! by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I used to watch a lot of anime lol. Haven't been keeping up lately but I still enjoy it.

Yeah there is quite a bit of filler. I think the manga wasn't completed at the time, so filler was used to kill time while they wait for the manga to progress the main plot. Its pretty good tho it you can get past that.

GC: What do you think about the concept of peaking people? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Imo QT probably peaks more people than GC does. A lot of GC seem to be former QT who "peaked" because QT was too extreme for them. Funny how that is.

Both: How would you define my sexual orientation? by theytookourjerbs in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Kinda funny you posted this right before international lesbian day lol

Everything else! by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh nice, didn't know anyone here watched anime lol. I've never seen MHA tho, Naruto was the only shounen i got into and I never finished it. 500 episodes is too much for me haha

Everything else! by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Congrats on the baby!!

Been getting into asian dramas and variety shows lately (not squid game lol). I'm not huge into rap, but Chinese rappers are pretty awesome haha

GC: Are men entitled to male-only spaces? by womanual in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But are they female?

GC: Are men entitled to male-only spaces? by womanual in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

And the ones who havent transitioned and dont pass? What about them?

GC: Are men entitled to male-only spaces? by womanual in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, for example I've heard stories of gay men bathhouses not wanting transmen in those spaces. Those spaces are often sexual in nature so I totally get why they wouldn't want a female there.

Both: What do you think about the arrest in the Wi Spa transgender incident? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Glad they caught the creep, I wonder how things will play out in court, and what it means for self-id laws moving forward.

The reaction from QT writers and activists who were defending this incident is disappointing but not surprising. They should be ashamed.

For GC: what makes someone trans? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

(im not GC but close enough)

I think its up to the trans community to decide the classification for being trans. There doesn't seem to be a strong consensus so far, so I'll just take people at their word. If they say they're trans, I'll call them trans.

For people who think bathrooms should be segregated by birth sex, are passing trans men entitled to use the women's bathroom? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

True, true. They rather be on the offensive, poking holes in other people's ideas. But rarely do they ever flesh out and defend their own position. I still don't understand how they can account for things like misogyny and patriarchy if sex doesn't matter to them.

For people who think bathrooms should be segregated by birth sex, are passing trans men entitled to use the women's bathroom? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, that's a better way to say it

For people who think bathrooms should be segregated by birth sex, are passing trans men entitled to use the women's bathroom? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh yea, I remember a survey like that. QT uses it a lot to 'prove' everyone is transphobic. But yeah, even without that, i think its a pretty safe assumption to make? If people aren't content with single sex spaces you'd expect to see a lot of activists advocating for unisex only spaces. But we don't see that at all.

Last time genderbend asked me a question, I asked her to respond to my question first and she did. So I give her the benefit of the doubt that she's an honest interlocutor. But yes, it honestly does feel like a rhetorical strategy rather than a substantive point.

QT: Can men compete in women's sports if they meet all the same requirements of transwomen? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for playing along with the hypothetical, I think this is the point that a bullet needs to be bit. Which is, men's and women's sports no longer exist. Instead we have a high testosterone category, and a low testosterone category. And athletes are allowed to undergo hormone treatments to participate in whatever category they want. Perhaps that's a bullet some QT would be willing to bite, but to me it sounds bizarre. At that point, why doesn't every athlete take hormones to reach the optimal, maximum allowable testosterone level? I feel like if everyone is taking hormones, it kinda goes against the spirit of sporting competitions.

If so then please explain to me what sport is to you.

I'm not a huge sports person, but I guess I'd consider it a competition of skill, physical ability, and sportsmanship (or something like that).

For people who think bathrooms should be segregated by birth sex, are passing trans men entitled to use the women's bathroom? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don't take this the wrong way but I've noticed you like to answer back with questions that don't really address the main point? Perhaps this thread has run its course, which is fine. No I dont have a survey of how many people are happy with single sex restrooms, its just an assumption but its doesn't change the argument. Which is, single sex restrooms provide safety & privacy, and no one is really pushing to remove them, so it seems rather destructive to get rid of them.

QT: Can men compete in women's sports if they meet all the same requirements of transwomen? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm glad someone understands lol

QT: Can men compete in women's sports if they meet all the same requirements of transwomen? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"for sporting purposes" sounds so bizarre lol. Can I identify as male for business purposes? I would prefer to be on the male end of the wage gap lmao.

QT: Can men compete in women's sports if they meet all the same requirements of transwomen? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Isn't that just arguing semantics?

Do you think the difference between transwomen and men-who-take-hormones is semantics?

So if a person fulfills all requirements to compete fairly why shouldn't they enter?

Idk, I'm not giving an opinion I'm just asking questions. I think this scenario is a tricky spot for QT because they'll have to concede something no matter how they answer. So I'm curious how they will reason thru it.

Would it still be "women's hard-fought-for sports leagues? No. But that doesn't matter from a purely competitive viewpoint.

So it would be the end of women's sports? Doesn't that sound kinda bad to you?

QT: Can men compete in women's sports if they meet all the same requirements of transwomen? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If it’s not natural no guy would do that so it seems a pretty pointless question.

Well yeah its not a question pertaining to real life, but rather a hypothetical to probe people's reasoning. I wanted to see how QT justifies their beliefs, because I think almost any answer to this will require biting a bullet of some sort.

But if you don't think transwomen should compete then I guess this whole hypothetical falls apart lol

QT: Can men compete in women's sports if they meet all the same requirements of transwomen? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah it is far fetched, its a hypothetical to see people's reasoning. I guess its kinda like a reductio ad absurdum (I think I'm using that correctly).

So you say he should be allowed? You are okay with men (not transwoman, but man identifying males) in women's sports? Don't you find that inappropriate, to allow men into women's hard-fought-for sports leagues?

For people who think bathrooms should be segregated by birth sex, are passing trans men entitled to use the women's bathroom? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the burden is on you to say why we should take them away. Single sex restrooms are already the norm, most people are happy with them, and there isn't any issue with them that couldn't be solved with the addition of a 3rd unisex room. So to take them away is a really extreme move to make, you'd need a very compelling reason to do so. And I don't think saying there's no need for them is a strong enough reason even if it were true.

But I do think there are good reasons for single sex spaces, mainly safety and privacy. I don't have the source on hand but I read a statistic somewhere that women are more likely to be harassed in unisex bathrooms compared to women's restrooms. And anecdotally I've heard so many stories of women using the restroom to get away from creepy dudes. Not to mention issues with spycams, peeping toms, or just weird pervs getting off to women pissing.

And on the privacy side, periods are so stigmatized in many cultures. Dealing with that around men only makes it more difficult. Some men get pissy just at the sight of a pad or tampon. Or how about religious women who need to fix their hijab? Or what about women who simply don't wanna be around men when she feels vulnerable? A thin 1 inch stall wall between you and a man isn't very comforting.

But the main point is, why take them away if most people are happy with them, and there's no problem with them? It just seems needlessly destructive to me.

For people who think bathrooms should be segregated by birth sex, are passing trans men entitled to use the women's bathroom? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I still believe all public facilities should be unisex

Why not both? Have women's, men's, and unisex. That way people have a choice of which they are most comfortable with.

For people who think bathrooms should be segregated by birth sex, are passing trans men entitled to use the women's bathroom? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, because passing as male makes it very difficult to use the women's room. For someone who passes extremely well, it becomes so impractical they virtually can't use the women's room anymore. Unless they want to constantly get complaints directed towards them every time they pee.

But all this is a non-issue, because transmen who pass very well will want to use the men's room anyways.

For people who think bathrooms should be segregated by birth sex, are passing trans men entitled to use the women's bathroom? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Of course not.

edit: I dont think I need to explain further, its pretty obvious yes?

For people who think bathrooms should be segregated by birth sex, are passing trans men entitled to use the women's bathroom? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm just saying, in terms of real life practicality, it would be difficult for a passing transman to use the women's restroom.

But technically speaking, that is correct, not all females have that right. For example, women in California don't have that right, as demonstrated by the Wi Spa incident some weeks ago.

For people who think bathrooms should be segregated by birth sex, are passing trans men entitled to use the women's bathroom? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They'd probably get kicked out for appearing like a male in the women's room. So in a sense, they effectively forfeit access to the women's room once they transition.

I dunno what conservatives or radfems would think or do.

How can you tell if someone is expressing their actual gender identity? by Fleurista in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's no way to know for sure. But I think if someone goes thru all the trouble of transitioning medically, its more likely that they are being honest (but even then you can't be sure, we know detransition is a thing). This isn't a problem for my position because if someone has a personal sense of "gender identity", then that's their personal thing. It shouldn't be imposed on people around them.

It does seem to be a problem for QT because they put a lot of weight on gender identity. So there's technically nothing stopping someone from manipulating "gender identity" for malicious reasons.

Everything Else, 14/08/2021 by Fleurista in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh how exciting, congrats haha XD

Are you religious? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. buddhist
  2. -
  3. not at all
  4. Yes, both QT and religious apologists often appeal to highly abstract philosophy to justify their beliefs. Its the only ground they have to stand on since their beliefs are so contrary to what we see in reality.

All: "Trans women" at the Olympics by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Since Hubbard lost it'll probably fly under the radar and nothing will happen. The general public needs to open their eyes for there to be any real push back.

All: What are some non-trans related issues that you would like others to be more aware of? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Since it recently came to my attention, the anti-feminist sentiment in Korea is scary. 58% of men in their 20s oppose feminism in Korea. I think its a backlash against how feminism in Korea has become more outspoken in recent years.

Also, just gay rights in general. People think gay issues have been solved but its still legal in many states to fire someone for being gay. And outside the western english speaking world, many countries still have a long way to go for gay rights.

What is gender nonconformity to you? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for the response. So they would be gender-id-conforming but gender-role-nonconforming. I see what you're saying. Gender is used in so many different ways its hard to know what people mean sometimes.

What is gender nonconformity to you? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Would you say a butch lesbian, who identifies as a woman, is completely gender-conforming because she id's as a woman? What about a transman who identifies as a man?

What is gender nonconformity to you? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The way I see it, gender noncomformity is going against the gender-roles/norms/etc of your sex. A good example is An San, the recent Korean gold medalist in archery. She's been getting a lot of shit from anti-feminists in korea for her short haircut. Gender nonconformity isn't just limited to fashion tho, I think it could also apply to mannerisms and behavior.

Is it a deliberate act of adopting gender norms of the other sex or is it normal human preferences being expressed without the tightlacing gender puts out.

Could be either or, different people have different motivations.

Is aggressively adopting the norms of the opposite sex actually nonconforming?

Yes in that they are not conforming to their sex roles. But now they are conforming to the opposite sex roles, which still reinforces those gender-norms in a way. So it feels rather unnatural.

All: How have your beliefs evolved? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Used to be QT but I didn't really think about it, I just accepted everything they said. They have a dangerous way of gaslighting people. Even when I felt something was off I ignored my gut feeling because I thought I was the one in the wrong. But eventually I realized my instincts were right all along, its QT who is insane. I'm lucky tho because I was never super deep into QT, so getting out wasn't that difficult for me.

I flirted with GC for a bit, and while I agree with them on many things, but I wouldn't call myself GC.

Everything else. 21/7/2021 by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

nothing serious i hope, get well soon! 🤞

Everything else. 21/7/2021 by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

that sucks, hope you recover quickly 🤞

All: What do you think about "non-binaries" and other "gender identities"? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup, afaik non-binary is really only prevalent in American and UK. So it bothers me when they claim non-binary has always existed in every culture, then they point to things like two-spirit or hijra or whatever else. The way they haphazardly conflate all these different cultural concepts into "nonbinary" is so disrespectful.

All: What do you think about "non-binaries" and other "gender identities"? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think of it as a form of self expression, and I wouldn't mind it so much if that was all it was. The problem is they get it all mixed up with gender stereotypes, and then try to force their beliefs on everyone else. I find it especially obnoxious when they try to force it upon other cultures who don't see gender in the same way. But I guess Americans forcing their beliefs on everyone else isn't anything new.

Do you think there are differences between them and people who identify as the opposite sex or not?

People who identify as the opposite sex often have dysphoria or something causing them distress with their bodies. Hence its a more serious issue for them. For nonbinary people, its literally just a label.

What do you think of neo-pronouns?

Impractical. Even some of the most staunch QT people I've seen think they are impractical.

Do you think people who identify as such should be able to get their official documents changed to reflect their "gender identities" instead of their sex?

No, sex is more important.

What do you think about cases of young boys raised as girls, but eventually realizing they are boys? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It just dawned on me how recent this case is, Reimer was born in '65. So this all happened in the 60s and 70s. That's shocking to me.

There is nothing to be inferred from Money’s experiment besides that medical and sexual abuse are bad.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too.

Thanks for the links, better than wikipedia lol

Everything else. 21/7/2021 by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Losing my patience with QT lol. Especially in the fallout of the Wi Spa stuff.

I wonder, has there ever been an honest, good-faith debate between QT and GC? The closest I've seen is this debate between Meghan Murphy and Julie Rei Goldstein, but the format was annoying. Idk why they decided to have a panel ask dumb questions, just them them have a back-and-forth geez.

QT, if gender is innate to identity by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You think trans people imprint like ducklings? Also, desire isn't necessarily non-innate. A desire can be entirely innate.

GC: Do you think it's possible for there to be sex change, "male pregnancy", a third sex, etc, with the use of technology and genetic engineering? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think you're using "real" differently from how the dictionary uses it.

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No need to be rude, I haven't been rude to you. If I'm incorrect then correct me, please clarify what you meant in the original post.

edit for brevity

What do you think about cases of young boys raised as girls, but eventually realizing they are boys? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But why would this make them different? They still aren’t identifying with anything the opposite sex can understand. So why should it matter to anyone but them? And to take it further, why should your brain change how I feel about your genitals/your sexed body overall?

It doesn't make sense to me either. I can understand why some may find comfort in the idea of gender-identity if they are uncomfortable with their sex. But then they make this massive leap to say gender-identity supersedes sex, and sex doesn't matter at all. This is the core issue with QT ideology imo. You can't just pretend sex doesn't exist when it such a big part of everyone's lives.

And since you have a ladybrain too, you should understand and respect that. Why are you contributing to the problems women already have? Why are you telling me what it is to be a woman?

That's the part that really bothers me. There seems to be no consideration, no sympathy for women. The Wi Spa incident was really a prime of example of how much they dont give a fuck.

What do you think about cases of young boys raised as girls, but eventually realizing they are boys? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, given QT track record for bending the truth, or just straight up lying, I'm becoming very skeptical of any claims they make.

What do you think about cases of young boys raised as girls, but eventually realizing they are boys? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh yeah, obviously gender was involved. I just meant its not a case study for gender, we shouldn't be drawing conclusions about gender from this case.

What do you think about cases of young boys raised as girls, but eventually realizing they are boys? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, there was so much abuse and such involved with this case. This case is more about child abuse and medical abuse than about gender.

What do you think about cases of young boys raised as girls, but eventually realizing they are boys? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed. Looking at the case in context, I don't see how anyone can draw conclusions about gender from it.

What do you think about cases of young boys raised as girls, but eventually realizing they are boys? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What other case is there?

I'd like to know too.

First- what do they mean by “masculinity”?

I'm not quite sure, the way I heard it described was very vague. I assumed they were talking about behavior but I can't be sure.

Maybe they realized they were male simply because they didn’t develop like females do?

That's what I figured. I guess the counter point would be that they were put on hormones so they would've developed closer to how females develop. But I don't think that's enough to fool someone into thinking they're actually female.

Why do tras/qt think that the possibility of proving some type of gender identity matters?

Maybe they think it gives them validity. For example, what's the difference between a drag queen and a transwoman? QT can point to gender-identity, to them that's the extra bit that makes a transwoman really a woman. Without gender-identity, QT has to admit trans people aren't that different from other gender-non-conforming people.

QT, if gender is innate to identity by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What's the difference between an 'instinctual identification with something' and a 'desire to be something'? Honest question.

GC: Do you think it's possible for there to be sex change, "male pregnancy", a third sex, etc, with the use of technology and genetic engineering? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't quite understand what you're saying, perhaps you could clarify or rephrase.

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We can agree to disagree on that. I think your top post speaks for itself.

What do you think about cases of young boys raised as girls, but eventually realizing they are boys? by FlanJam in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How terrible, I feel so bad for him and the abuse he went thru. I agree QT should just let him rest in peace. In context this case is nothing like I've heard them describe, and doesn't prove anything they've claimed. Maybe they have another case they are referring to, but this one doesn't do anything for QT.

QT, if gender is innate to identity by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The most charitable explanation for gender-identity I can give is some internal feeling trans people have that makes them desire to be the opposite sex. But many QT wouldn't accept that because it'd be transmed or something. Also, they would claim everyone has gender-identity, but conveniently only trans people are aware of it.

The other common explanation for gender-identity is some nebulous internal soul thing that I can't steel man to save my life lol

QT, if gender is innate to identity by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not all of them will admit this, but some will admit they're just using gender stereotypes to imitate their desired sex as much as they can. That's the most honest, charitable explanation imo.

QT, if gender is innate to identity by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If I could steel-man QT, they'd probably made a distinction between gender-identity and gender-expression. The gender-expression can change over culture and time. The gender-identity is the innate part.

Both: Which side has the pandemic helped more? by Fleurista in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So maybe whatever changes are happening or happened or will happen are less about the topics and more about just sort of how humans behave with each other? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but that seems like it could just very well be the case!

That could be the case, I definitely think infighting is prone to happen especially for groups with deeply held beliefs. I'm kinda surprised we haven't seen more infighting among QT tbh, but maybe I'm just not paying attention.

Do you think that those things occurring during the pandemic had more or less impact because of it? Did the pandemic affect the impact of instances like those at all?

Maybe more people were made aware because more people are spending time online, that's how I found out. But idk how significant that number would be.

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm glad you agree but your original post said otherwise, which is why I pushed back.

GC: Do you think it's possible for there to be sex change, "male pregnancy", a third sex, etc, with the use of technology and genetic engineering? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Real literally means 'not artificial'. So if its artificial, its not real.

According to Merriam Webster:

: not artificial, fraudulent, or illusory : genuine

Both: Which side has the pandemic helped more? by Fleurista in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I guess I've noticed some infighting among QT, perhaps due to being cooped up and online during the pandemic. But idk if that's really significant or just regular infighting that any group will have.

There was also the Bell v Tavistock case and the Maya Forstater stuff, but that just happened to overlap with the pandemic, not so much a result of it.

But overall I dunno, I can't think if any significant changes that happened because of the pandemic. But I haven't been paying close attention so I could be missing something lol

Both: Which side has the pandemic helped more? by Fleurista in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I remember at the beginning of the pandemic, QT made themselves look bad when they complained life-saving surgeries were prioritized over trans surgeries. But that was a brief passing moment. Other than that, I dunno if one side really benefited over the other due to the pandemic. At least, none that I've noticed.

GC: Do you think it's possible for there to be sex change, "male pregnancy", a third sex, etc, with the use of technology and genetic engineering? by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think those sciencey questions are best suited for biologists. GC would probably have more to say about the social implications of that technology (if it existed), but the science part should be left to scientists.

That there might be neopenises that look, feel and function exactly like natural penises? Or neovaginas that look, feel and function exactly like natural vaginas?

QT believes we've already achieved this. Apparently even a gynecologist can't tell the difference lol.

Is there a reason why a neopenis that looks, feels, and functions exactly like natural penises can not be considered a real penis? Or a neovagina that looks, feels, and functions exactly like natural vaginas can not be considered a real vagina? Despite doing the same things? Wouldn't a laboratory meat that tastes, looks, feels and functions exactly like natural meat be considered real meat?

If we go by dictionary definitions, something's "realness" depends on whether it is natural or artificial. Neo-genitals and laboratory meat are man-made, they are artificial. So they are not "real" by definition. They could appear and function identically to the real thing, but the fact they are artificially produced is what makes them, well, artificial.

QT: Is not dating people due to beliefs bigotry? by wokuspokus in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I guess it depends who you'd consider QT, certainly all the outspoken and devout QTs believe it is bigotry. But I think the more casual QT people would be more likely to say date whoever you want its your life.

Personally, I wouldnt mind dating a casual QT person, I think those people just wanna support trans people but aren't necessarily devoted to the crazy stuff. I dunno about a hardcore QT person tho, it'd be like dating a flat-earther. I guess we could make it work but it'd be tough to ignore the elephant in the room. I wouldn't mind dating a GC person given they aren't one of the ultra extreme ones who are actually transphobic.

Meta: Happy One Year Anniversary by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

happy bday! 🎉🥂

GC: Women can have penises and men can have vaginas? by Fastandthecurious in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Its just a really weird way of using "man" and "woman". Most people don't use it like that. If I told my neighbors "women can have penises", they'd look at me like a crazy person.

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

True haha. They'll say its a "dog whistle" or something.

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And lying is the safest option if you're unsure how they'll react. Or be vague, say something like "you're not my type" if you don't wanna lie.

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because people don’t have the right to have their preferences followed without first disclosing those preferences.

I dont want to dogpile, but it needs to be said: Lack of a 'NO' is not a 'YES"

edit for clarity

Alleged Trans incident at upscale LA Spa may have been staged by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well kind of, I guess? You pointed out a source at the spa, that's one kind of evidence. And like I mentioned before, you can seek out evidence that the woman planned to fabricated the incident. Not saying it would be easy to prove if it was staged. But the article should've sought out more evidence before claiming it may have been staged. At this point it just feels like conjecture.

Alleged Trans incident at upscale LA Spa may have been staged by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with you, there's no reason to think its fake. This article is basically conjecture and they shouldn't have published it as is tbh. I was just telling Heimdekledi what kind of evidence I think would be compelling.

Alleged Trans incident at upscale LA Spa may have been staged by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Now I'm confused. Why did you ask "How would you find evidence for a story about lack of evidence?" if you already have an example of evidence?

Rabbit holes aside, my point is this story is flimsy and probably shouldn't have been publish in this state.

Alleged Trans incident at upscale LA Spa may have been staged by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You could find evidence that the woman who filmed the original video faked it. Or get her to admit it's fake. Or maybe collect testimony from women at the spa saying there was no trans people there.

I've never heard of the blade before, but the way this article was written does not inspire confidence.

All: Disclosure and Consent by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Any half-decent human being would wanna be sure their partner is comfortable and ready before taking the next step. So yes, trans people should disclose if they care about their partners.

Alleged Trans incident at upscale LA Spa may have been staged by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hope it was fake. But the source seems bias, and the (lack of) evidence they provide is unconvincing. The fact that they published this article at all is kinda weird, if they really think its fake they should keep digging instead of publishing prematurely.

But even if it were fake, it doesn't change the core issue. And the violence from the protests is still disturbing.

Both: In light of recent events. In what context is Voyeurism and Indecent Exposure acceptable? Is there a rational justification for making an exception for males who claim to be women? by Penultimate_Penance in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think I saw that, or at least I saw something similar. A 'feminist' writer said something like its rude for the girls to stare at the person's penis, as if the trans person was the victim in this scenario. Absolutely backwards bonkers, I feel like I'm in an episode of the twilight zone.

Both: In light of recent events. In what context is Voyeurism and Indecent Exposure acceptable? Is there a rational justification for making an exception for males who claim to be women? by Penultimate_Penance in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah they were really hard to watch, the violence is genuinely disturbing. I don't even know if its possible to reason with these people anymore.

Both: In light of recent events. In what context is Voyeurism and Indecent Exposure acceptable? Is there a rational justification for making an exception for males who claim to be women? by Penultimate_Penance in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah and I don't like the way they frame it as pro-trans vs anti-trans. Its so loaded, it makes the "anti-trans" side the bad guys by default. I don't even think of it as a trans issue, its a women's issue. The fact that the person is trans doesn't matter. Its the fact that they have a penis, that's the issue.

Both: Please vote on the demographics poll I created for GCdebatesQT by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

more lurkers than i expected, intersesting

All: What would it take for everyone to be friends again? by Fleurista in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No problem! I think the framing of the whole thing is terrible, because the gender-ideology side have made it seem like they represent trans activism but I dunno if they do. It might seem that way when you see all the eccentric people on twitter and youtube saying crazy stuff, but when I talk to real trans people they don't agree with any of the crazy stuff either. I wonder if you polled trans people, how many are actually on board with gender ideology.

The whole mess seems to just continue to shine a light on the reality of biological sex,

Its kinda hilarious in a way, its like people are rediscovering the importance of sex all over again. I saw some apolitical people on the female weight lifting reddit discussing that trans weightlifter in the olympics. They were saying its kinda unfair for natal women, and that we should have "amab and afab" divisions... and I'm thinking hello? we already have that its called male and female sports lol. Its wild how we have to reinvent the wheel.

I had to look up cotton ceiling again

Haha, totally not a biased article at all lol. In all seriousness tho, its so hard to talk about cotton ceiling because everyone exaggerates so much. Either it doesn't exist at all or trans people are going around forcing people to have sex with them. But in reality I think its a more nuanced discussion about social pressure, having boundaries, when a trans person should disclose, etc. Its an important discussion to have but no one wants to have it because its become so politicized.

Sorry for ranting but I wanted to get if off my chest lol.

Both: What do you think about the transgender incident at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well that's a pretty fringe view. I don't think the vast majority of people would want that.

Both: What do you think about the transgender incident at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's not how sections work...

Both: What do you think about the transgender incident at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Again, you're diverting from the original point. Why can't trans people use the co-ed section? Seems like a fair solution that would satisfy everyone.

Both: What do you think about the transgender incident at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In many cultures its okay for women to be naked around other women. That's why spas and bathhouses have a designated women's section.

But that's diverting from my original point. Trans people are welcome to use the spa, just use the co-ed section. Meanwhile women who don't want to be around male bodies can use the women's section. The whole issue can easily be avoided if people just used the designated sections, I don't see why this is so hard.

Both: What do you think about the transgender incident at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There is literally a co-ed area why can't trans people use that? The women's section is there for women who don't want to see male bodies. And young girls should absolutely NOT be subjected to a strangers dick, this shouldn't be controversial.

All: What would it take for everyone to be friends again? by Fleurista in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Undoing self-id would be huge, if gender ideologues actually walked back on that, it'd give me hope we could get along. Acknowledge the cotton ceiling issue, give a voice to detrans people, stop denying sex exists, acknowledge the importance of sex especially for women... if everyone could agree on those things, that's be amazing.

Both: What do you think about the transgender incident at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That dailydot article is ridiculous. How can anyone defend this shit? There were underage girls present for fucks sake. Its a shame this story will probably get brushed under the rug, more people need to be aware.

How do you all feel about the trans narrative in “Loki”? by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I haven't seen the show so idk how much i agree/disagree with this fan theory. But I don't see a problem with people making fan theories in general.

Both: What would a healthy non homophobic trans community look like? by Penultimate_Penance in GCdebatesQT

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wonder if QT's rhetoric has backfired on them. They really push the idea that trans people are the most oppressed class to ever exist, like they're the undefeated champions of the oppression olympics. Of course trans people don't have it easy, but QT exaggerates it to a cartoonish degree. And when they repeat this rhetoric over and over again, maybe they've taken it to heart and really believe the entire world hates them and is out to get them. They've put themselves into a really unhealthy state of mind, so its not hard to see how they can radicalize into gender ideology and become militant.