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[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

1) it's not.

2) a political opinion can be transphobic, or racist or homophobic. If you push to take away a gay couples right for adoption, that's homophobic and political. It really depends on the reasoning behind it.

3) The terms of a relationship are defined by the people in it. If the dude I'm seeing sees me as a woman then it's a straight relationship. If you wanna call it gay I'd say it's inaccurate, but whatever floats your boat.

4) misgendering is often used to attack trans people on a deeply personal level. But I like comparisons. If you cite the bell curve because of your worldview and science your're probably a racist. If you misgender trans folk intentionally because of your worldview you're probably a transphobe. 5) Gotta get em young you know. Can't build a "transsexual empire" if you don't start early. Edgy jokes aside. GD is an actual thing and early treatment gives better results overall. Not for everything [trans men beeing shorter and trans women may have issues with SRS later] sure. Secondly if we continue assuming that GD exists, then we should enable those who suffer from it to have access to the most effective treatment possible. If you don't think it exists, then you may want to provide another reason for why trans folk exist.

6) spaces and sports are different and should be evaluated differently. I'm not knowledgeable on sports so I won't comment. Spaces depend on the space. Bathrooms don't get safer for women if trans folk have to use the bathroom according to their sex, once you actually think about it and grant the premise that predators will dress as trans women to gain access to these spaces. Let me explain. If trans women had to use men's bathrooms it would follow that trans men should use women's bathrooms. Trans men don't pose a threat to women, because they are women, but a certain percentage passes as cis at a glance. Now you have male presenting people in women's bathrooms. So a cis predator wouldn't even have to try and present female to gain access to women's spaces. If you wanna argue that it's especially the trans women who pose a threat, then that would be transphobic. If you argue for 3rd spaces you probably aren't.

On the note of using these spaces pre transition. Don't. But if your medical system requires social transition before access to treatment that's a different story.

Prisons and similar are a different issue, but even there strict sex segregation isn't the solution if you have the safety of all vulnerable groups both during and after the sentence in mind. The latter is especially important if we want to use prsion as a chance to reform and not just as penalty.

7) as I've said before superstraight is actually quite welcome. If you give me a heads up that you don't wanna date me great. I don't get the comparison to hair color, height or race or whatever traits, but I can't intuit sexuality in general so that's most likely a me problem.

What I have an issue with is the current state of the movement. It's not the alledgedly wholesome movement it started out as. At least not anymore. There is a ton of transphobia running around. I also don't get the need to organize a movement. If you wanna write superstraight in your dating profile great. If you go full pride Mode like the oppressed majority you are and parade it on Twitter you're probably transphobic.

The discussion about "super" straight as opposed to something like cisgay or cisbi is also interesting, but useless. The only person it tells us anything about is the dude on tiktok who came up with it.

8) I think you found the most of the common points.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Prisons and similar are a different issue, but even there strict sex segregation isn't the solution if you have the safety of all vulnerable groups both during and after the sentence in mind.

What's your view on hospital and nursing or care home placement, and on intimate care in such settings or at home?

Should women who are bedridden, ill, long-term disabled and/or elderly have to share hospital rooms, wards & toilet & bathing facilities with members of the opposite sex based on the other persons' gender identity?

If you have a grandmother or great-grandmother who resides in a long-term HCF, would you label her transphobic and bigoted if she felt uncomfortable having to share a room and toilet/bathing facilities with someone of the opposite sex who enjoyed all the perks & privileges of being a male for 60-70 years (like Jenner, Pritzker, Eddie Izzard) but late in life started claiming to be a woman? What if she had known -or known of - this person for decades?

Is it transphobic for disabled, elderly and/or dying girls & women who need help with intimate care like bathing and toileting to want such care to be provided only by other females, not by males who wish they were female? Is it transphobic for a girl or woman in such circumstances to feel deeply uncomfortable with the idea of getting such care from someone who is male but claims to "identify as" a woman?

Is it transphobic of disabled and elderly people who depend on home carers and assistants to stipulate that such persons be one sex or the other? Should those of us who are dependent on in-home assistance not have a say about the sex of the people who come into our homes to provide us with nursing, intimate and other kinds of care? Is it morally wrong for vulnerable people who need home care to want to have a say over the sex of who we let into the one place that's supposed to be our very own "safe space"?

Is it transphobic for girls & women to only want intimate medical care like pelvic exams, Pap smears, mammograms & forensic exams done after rape or assault by a male to be done only by someone who is female?

Is it transphobic for men getting prostate exams to want them done by someone else with a prostate, rather than by a female person who identifies as a man? Are elderly men who feel comfortable getting intimate care only from someone of a certain sex transphobic?

Is it transphobic for an adolescent male with a groin injury requiring surgery to be very uncomfortable at the idea of having his wound checked and tended to - and his post-op intimate washing done - by someone of the opposite sex, regardless of how they identify? Is it transphobic and immoral of him to insist that those providing such care be male like he is? Is his mother transphobic if she respects his wishes? Or should she tell him he's a bigot for not wanting to get such care from a female who "identifies as" a man?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

-2. Not even trying to be snarky but I don’t get how my second question is at all related to being gay or opinions on gay people. I’m a bit unsure where this answer came from and would need you to explain before I can address it. As for the part about political views- me saying transwomen aren’t women is not based on politics, it’s based on biology. Tras made this statement political. Not the rest of us.

-3. If the terms of a relationship are determined by the people in it, then we may as well just throw away any words used to describe sexuality. Two males that aren’t trans could be a heterosexual relationship if they say it is? A woman and a man (neither are trans) could be a lesbian relationship if they say it is? A monogamous couple could call themselves polygamists? That’s faulty logic imo

-4. So if I say, “I only use sex based pronouns due to my beliefs, it is not intended to upset you” before I properly address a person’s sex it’s okay?

This isn’t comparable to racism. It’s fact that TW are males and TM are female. Seriously this comparison is so off. If we’re doing these types of comparisons, do we get to call trans people totalitarian dictators, since you want to force language on others? Gender is societal, so if society recognizes that you’re a male and you demand the opposite pronouns, aren’t you misgendering yourself?

-5. It’s not about whether or not gd exists, it’s about the side effects that blockers have on children’s body. You made an edgy joke but you seem to believe it so I’m not so sure your joking at all.

-6. My argument is that females should have their own spaces. That sex based spaces should remain so. From bathrooms to changing rooms to prisons and everything in between. It is wrong to force females to share those spaces with males. Alternate solutions should be found. Period. Female rights ans spaces shouldn’t be compromised for males. Ever. Transwomen aren’t the only males that could be in danger in those spaces. So find a way to fix it for all males and treat TW with equality, not special treatment.

-7. It’s not just super straight. Lesbians, bisexuals and gay men have all jumped on the super train. Are you saying they aren’t oppressed?

[–]adungitit 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you push to take away a gay couples right for adoption, that's homophobic and political.

So what would you call people pushing to take away women's (a vulnerable group) rights to spaces free of men and male predation?

If you misgender trans folk intentionally because of your worldview you're probably a transphobe.

And if you use preferred pronouns because of your worldview and demand to take away spaces where women don't have to deal with men, you're probably a misogynist. Congrats!

early treatment gives better results overall

The problem is that with all the gender troubles and traumas that children are exposed to, especially at the start of puberty, and with the extremely toxic environment regarding the trans condition in general (society still thinking women are from Venus and men from Mars, and children having toonishly exaggerated interpretations of this [with even adult trans people pinpointing the dolls they played with or the dresses they did/didn't want to wear as evidence of being male or female], the widespread popularity of super unique trans identities, the idea that challenging anyone on this matter is literal violence, gender dysphoria no longer even being required to be trans, the reality of sexist gendering truly starting to rear its ugly head with all the associated trauma at that age), children are absolutely not qualified to decide on such medical procedures for the same reason why they're not qualified to decide on other things as well. Like, if weed helped a few children get over some issues they were having, I still wouldn't wouldn't legalise it for all minors on the basis of them saying they need it, and it doesn't matter how well the small number of them felt from that.

predators will dress as trans women to gain access to these spaces

Actually, I think regular men crossdressing just to get into toilets isn't as much of a concern as selfID allowing literally any average man to get into female spaces unchallenged. Shelters and prisons are an entirely different issue though, and the men there are known to go to any extreme and take advantage of any loophole in order to prey on women.

a cis predator wouldn't even have to try and present female to gain access to women's spaces.

Seems like something that would be fixed with the ID that stated a person's actual sex, so if any woman felt unsafe, she could get security to check. Female trans people that would make you absolutely think they're men would probably be so rare they couldn't affect what's considered normal in bathrooms. But really I don't think anyone cares where female trans people do their business, they can go gender-validate themselves in the urinals for all I care.

If you wanna argue that it's especially the trans women who pose a threat, then that would be transphobic.

Right. Women having spaces free from men and their oppression is transphobic.

If you argue for 3rd spaces you probably aren't.

Sounds like a point that the people trying to violate women's spaces should start with, not women. But people just love to insist that women should fight other people's battles first if they want their rights to be respected second. Also you'll find that the majority of GC has no issue whatsoever with 3rd spaces for trans people.

if your medical system requires social transition before access to treatment that's a different story.

I feel like parts of the trans movement are starting to be against this, but for entirely wrong reasons (mainly just to get to the drugs quicker).

Now you have male presenting people in women's bathrooms.

This is simply going to happen as more and more women are (hopefully) going to be gender nonconforming.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Secondly if we continue assuming that GD exists, then we should enable those who suffer from it to have access to the most effective treatment possible. If you don't think it exists, then you may want to provide another reason for why trans folk exist.

But how is it that the "best" treatment possible for it 1) doesn' t cure the issue and doesn' t even attempt to deconstruct it, 2) is considered insane for any other kind of body dysphoria?

[–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

If you don't think it exists, then you may want to provide another reason for why trans folk exist.

Trust me, I want it to not exist too, you guys.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Would be nice xS