Thoughts on this thread?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from ovarit.com

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[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

A factor sure, but not the one sole cause of violence. I should have phrased better.

The quote merely wonders if abuse of testosterone effected her brain. It doesn’t say testosterone makes otherwise nonviolent females violent.

Testosterone does in fact cause an increase in aggression in some people when there’s an excess of it. It’s perfectly reasonable to remove access to a drug that’s known to increase aggression in some users when a person commits an act of aggression.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 4 insightful - 8 fun4 insightful - 7 fun5 insightful - 8 fun -  (11 children)

If the person needs the drug to function on the first place, then it's not. You could prescribe an alternative, but not every medication has one. So what would you do then. Either Co medicate to help with side effects or teach the paitent behaviors that help alleviate side effects. Given that the patient needs the drug to function, there are currently no known alternatives and co medication does not make a lot of sense in the long run teaching the patient methods to deal with their anger is the sensible solution. Also known as therapy.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

She will not die without testosterone. She does not need it to function. She wants it for its cosmetic effects. Discontinuation will not cause any disease to come back or flare up. Why are we acting like exogenous hormones for gender issues are the same thing as insulin or actually necessary medicine.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 3 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 7 fun -  (9 children)

Functioning and not dying are two very different benchmarks at least the way I used it in context. I'm sorry for not making that clear.

If not dying is the baseline for health we should get rid of a lot of treatments, shouldn't we? Maybe you could elaborate what exactly you consider a healthy person and if mental illness should be treated.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Easy. Anything used for cosmetic effects is not necessary even if the person gets extremely sad without it.

We don’t give nose jobs or Lipo to people with dysmorphia do we? Even though they’re extremely sad about it. They get therapy and anti depressants and actual help. Having dysmorphia about breasts or a vulva or a penis does not make it different. It does not make it necessary to help the person disfigure their healthy body even though they may be dysfunctionally sad about not getting to ruin healthy body parts.

Hormones do not treat dysphoria. They mask it by giving the sufferer a cosmetic bandaid for a psychological bullethole. Anything less than agreement and affirmation that the patient is what their dysmorphia tells them they must be and have is treated as medical malpractice and abuse of a patient. Absolutely no treatment happens at all when gender affirmation is offered.

Automatically treating the sad with hormones is nonsensical. There is no disease that is treated by an artificially induced endocrine disorder. Causing disease to treat non-disease sadness is dumb and it cannot be framed in a way that makes it sensible.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Automatically treating the sad with hormones is nonsensical.

And potentially explosive if the person in question has (say) bipolar disorder or functional schizophrenia.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Oh shit really? That’s scary. Each of those can be absolutely devastating.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Very scary. How many people assume (or are pressured into believing) that T is the answer to what's ailing them without getting a full psych screening first? Can you imagine a full-on manic episode plus exogenous T?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

My sister recently had her first full blown manic episode and was diagnosed as bipolar 1. She was so goddamn scared of her own brain and that was without any sort of drug in her system that would exacerbate it..I don't even want to imagine something like roid rage on top of it.

They’re promised control over their bodies via testosterone and end up with out of control moods and other brutal side effects.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm sorry your sister has to navigate that -- it can be terrifying. FWIW I've seen similar with untreated bipolar and exogenous estrogen -- wild mood swings, episodes of intense narcissistic rage.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

A lot of text for an old argument refuted innumerable times. The mindsets between GID and BDDs are quite different.

BDD distorts the paitents self perception. They'll see something as either worse than it is or percieve it completely differently. To the point that they'll obsess about it [ocpd]. Eg the guy that's fine beeing a guy, but obsesses over his average sized dick.

GID does not change the paitents perception of the body. Same person, but with GID would be perfectly aware that their body is healthy and average and overall fine, but is not comfortable with their sex - male in this case.

I don't deny that you can suffer from both GID and BDD. The example of the objectively passing trans man obsessing over his small hand, which is actually in the average size range for males.

I'll now continue to point out some more things.

They get therapy and anti depressants and actual help.

ADs APs and therapy have been tried and did not help for GID patients.

Having dysmorphia about breasts or a vulva or a penis does not make it different. It does not make it necessary to help the person disfigure their healthy body even though they may be dysfunctionally sad about not getting to ruin healthy body parts.

I concur. To bad you're conflating GID and BDD for the sake of argument, but without context you make a great observation. Kudos.

There is no disease that is treated by an artificially induced endocrine disorder.

Just because something is unique does not make it wrong or flawed. Some issues only have one currently known solution that may seem unorthodox. That does not effect its efficacy in any way.

Causing disease to treat non-disease sadness is dumb and it cannot be framed in a way that makes it sensible.

The word disease does not make a ton of sense here. Last time I checked CGHRT [or mental illness for the sentence above] isn't infectious. Even when using illness I'm not sure what exactly you mean by it so id like to ask you to define disease in the context you used it. I'm not a native speaker so there may be some context I'm not aware of.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I mean disease to refer to any illness that is physical. Infections, cancers, viruses, parasites, neuralgia, etc etc.

Didn’t know non affirmative therapy that isn’t also that weird flavour of homophobic “be normal” had been tried. All the treatment plans seem extremely against any level of questioning or challenging the patients preconceived notions of gender.

Guess I just find the entire process far too unethical to consider it medicine.