Both: What do you think about President Biden's Executive Order? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Was that from the old sub or the new sub?

I feel bad for Masks. She seems very unhappy.

Both: What do you think about President Biden's Executive Order? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The implications are unclear, but this certainly doesn't bode well for the protection of single-sex spaces. I'm most worried about prisons, domestic violence and rape shelters, and women's sports, in that order.

Both: Disclosure around adoption by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wouldn't get into the nitty gritty of dysphoria with a young child, but maybe something like "When Mommy was little, she was a boy. When she grew up, she was unhappy and decided to live her life as a woman."

Remember little kids don't have any concept of what's normal and what's not normal. For them, their mother having been a boy once upon a time is normal until they're taught otherwise by society.

I already have been scrapbooking the adoption process. Craft projects are fun!

I had another idea. You know you can also make personalized books, either with photos or illustrations. You could create and print your own or go to a website to order one. There are lots of options.

Both: Disclosure around adoption by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not necessarily true. If a birth parent finds out an adoptive parent committed fraud during the adoption process, most states will step in.

Really, even 5 or 10 years later? I don't know what a judge would do if trans status were withheld from biological parents, but I sure wouldn't want u/peakingatthemoment or anyone else to take the chance of it causing a huge problem down the road.

The concern here is not with homosexuality or even transsexuality, it's with honesty and transparency.

I agree, even though I don't really consider a male-to-female transsexual to be a gay man. I mean, I know technically peaking is a homosexual male (and she would agree), but it would be hard to think of her a gay man, given the lengths she's gone to to transition, including sex reassignment surgery. I don't think most potential birth mothers would think of her as a gay man either, but they still need to weigh how they feel about transsexuality and whether it would impact their decision to place their child for adoption with a particular couple.

Both: Disclosure around adoption by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I don't know much about adoption laws. It sounds like it's more complicated today than it was in the 70s when my mom was adopted. I can see how trans status might be construed as a matter of informed consent, but once an adoption is completed, after a certain amount of time, it can't be undone even if the birth mom is unhappy.

That's why I think it's important to tell the birth mom prior so it doesn't turn into a huge issue. That would just cause stress for both families and eventually also for the child.

Transsexuals have been around a long time. It's hardly a new thing that a couple where one partner is transsexual might adopt. I'm sure there have been plenty of others. There are probably some public examples if you search for them.

Both: Disclosure around adoption by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I don't think you need to necessarily mention it on the first visit. Let her get to know you first. And then at some point bring it up.

We are still planning on being honest about my history (when he or she is old enough to understand). We would never ask our child to keep it secret either.

Not like I have a whole lot of personal experience with this, but I'd just be open from the very beginning. That way you never have to decide when the right time to tell the child is. I know my mom always knew she was adopted. My grandparents didn't wait until a certain age to tell her. It would probably makes sense to do the same thing regarding you being trans. Just mention it casually. Maybe make a photo album for your life story and tell or show the story to your child so he or she just grows up knowing it.

Both: Disclosure around adoption by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Mainly that she would be upset if she learned about it later. I remember we discussed adoption before, and you said you and your partner were going to be open with your child. Kids are bad at keeping secrets. What happens if the birth mom finds out you're trans because of something your child says and is upset? It's possible she could be religious or conservative and that's why she's choosing adoption instead of abortion.

Of course it's also possible she could be very pro-trans. I'd ask her what she thinks about same-sex parents. If she would consider choosing two dads to adopt her child. If she says she wouldn't, then I think it would be unfair to keep that knowledge from her. Full disclosure is probably best either way. This is a huge life decision she's making. If it were a closed adoption, that's one thing, but selecting parents means that she should know everything relevant to select them. Maybe she really wants her daughter, if it's a girl, to have a mom she can talk to about female puberty.

I know that I’m not like that. If anything, I’d be very, very against it do to knowing what I know, but obviously some trans people do want others to be like that. It’s child abuse, plain and simple.

Oh yeah, I wouldn't be worried about you in that department. Actually I wasn't even really thinking of transgender parents doing that. I suppose they could, but it seems way more likely that non-trans parents would be gung ho about transitioning a child. I wouldn't want to choose parents for my kid that are pro-child transition or way into liberal feminism. I just would want a safe home where my child could grow to adulthood and be taught good values.

GC: If two bisexual people are in a "relationship", are they in a "bisexual relationship" because they are bisexual? Would the terms "gay relationship" and "straight relationship" invalidate their bisexuality and be bierasure? by FairyPrincess in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A relationship between two people can't be bisexual. It can either be same-sex or opposite-sex.

Both: Disclosure around adoption by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think you should bring it up. My mom was adopted, but it was a closed adoption and she's never met her biological parents. Most adoptions these days are more open than that, from what I've read. If the birth mother finds out that you're trans at some point and feels betrayed, it could cause problems. Assuming your future child wants to meet his or her birth parents someday, it might cause strain between the two families. Seems like a potentially harmful thing to keep secret.

As for whether the birth mother has a right to know, well, I guess there can be differing opinions on that. If I were in the birth mom's position, I would want to know. I don't think it's a matter of legality, but I would still want to have that information. I'm not sure if it would affect my decision or not. I think the future parents' politics would factor into things more than trans status. I'd be devastated, for example, if I had a daughter who turned out to be GNC like me and gave to her to be raised by people who transitioned her as a child.

Why would a woman or LGB vote Trump? by Britishbulldog in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't, but I didn't vote for Biden either.

Trump is a shit show. I have heard of people being so concerned about gender issues that they voted for Trump, but honestly all this current trans craziness took place on Trump's watch. The Democrats are far worse on this issue, but it's not like the Republicans are particularly helpful.

GC: I have questions that need answers by 2oldforschool in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We don't believe that people do not feel gender identities. We believe gender itself is a social construct. It's something created by society, and it's something that causes harm to all of us.

Both: Do "transbians" exist outside the West? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Few, if any. Same for gay trans men.

I find gay-identified trans men interesting because they're also very much confined to our current time period. I have found some evidence of male-attracted people who transitioned, although many were bisexual. People on Ovarit gave a few examples from the 80s and 90s. There was a study from 1993 that included nine female to male transsexual individuals. I wonder if they were only able to find nine because it was so incredibly uncommon.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01552911

Their awareness of gender dysphoria preceded their awareness of their attraction to men.

Even this sounds different from what's happening with ROGD in teen girls. These current girls are realizing their heterosexuality prior to developing gender dysphoria as teenagers, not before. The abstract is a little vague here. These nine subjects all developed dysphoria pre-puberty? They say they felt dysphoria prior to developing attractions to men, so it must have been in childhood. right? How many of them were bisexual vs. strictly heterosexual? I do think bisexuals are a different category. Can anyone access the full study?

Ovarit code? by AreYouSureee in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Has anyone sent you a code yet? If not, PM me.

Chicago hospital apologizes for cosmetic surgery on intersex babies by notgonnabenice in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They absolutely should.

But I meant that doctors are apologizing for operating on intersex kids, while it's perfectly legal in the USA to medicalize and sterilize trans-identified preteens and perform double mastectomies on 13 year olds. It's tragic and ironic that they're apparently sorry for one and yet cheerfully promoting the other.

Off Topic Friday: Happy Holidays by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm doing pretty well. I had been planning on visiting my family for Christmas, but the pandemic put a stop to that. Some people we know were exposed, so I didn't want to take the risk.

My partner and I had a nice, quiet Christmas at home. It's the first time in my life I haven't been with my family, but 2020 is a year of firsts for a lot of us, I guess. I got some nice presents, including Irreversible Damage. I had mentioned wanting to read Shrier's book a few months ago, but never expected my partner would buy it for me, so that was cool. I know it's sold out so I guess he bought it just in time.

“I just gave him the language”: Top gender doc uses pop tart analogy to persuade 8-year-old girl she’s really a boy by worried19 in GenderCritical

[–]worried19[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hell, that happens even without parental encouragement. Kids talk about being animals, kids believe in imaginary friends, and so on.

Children are not adults. They don't have a firm grasp on reality because they're little kids, for God's sake.

“I just gave him the language”: Top gender doc uses pop tart analogy to persuade 8-year-old girl she’s really a boy by worried19 in GenderCritical

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I share your hope. I post a lot about Olson-Kennedy just because I can't get over how reprehensible she is. I hold out hope that one day she will face legal consequences for what she's done.

Johanna Olson-Kennedy and the 8 year old girl who was put on testosterone by worried19 in GenderCritical

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A little late, but I just made a separate post about Pop Tart Kid.

r/BiologicalLesbians Banned On Reddit. by votkriscan in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They also just banned r/AndreasGarden.

Suddenly it’s like their lesbianism never existed :( by Lavalanche17 in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe. I hope for the sake of Page's health it's not testosterone.

Suddenly it’s like their lesbianism never existed :( by Lavalanche17 in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That was my first impression. If coming out as trans was supposed to make Page happy, why release such a negative-seeming photo?

Suddenly it’s like their lesbianism never existed :( by Lavalanche17 in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Page looks miserable in that picture. Have Page's cheeks always been so sunken in? I'm wondering if some kind of illness or eating disorder is involved.

Or perhaps this is the effect of testosterone? I was doubtful Page would ever do anything medical because of the acting career, but maybe that's what's happening.

r/BiologicalLesbians Banned On Reddit. by votkriscan in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Of course they banned it. It's shocking how homosexuality isn't allowed anymore.

If any of the banned lesbians want invites to Ovarit, you can PM me here or on Reddit.

GC: What are your thoughts on this pro-trans person's arguments? Can you tell me why their arguments are unsound and why you disagree with them? by MissDimples in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think they have zero idea what's happening to young girls these days.

GC: Do you genuinely desire to have more trans men in public positions (i.e. acting, politics)? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you seriously support that?

It may not be safe or healthy for natal female adults to go on testosterone, but if they are properly and fully informed of the risks, isn't it their choice to make?

So, even though gender is "fluid," Elliot Page was always a man by JulienMayfair in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's only been a week, so it may not be apparent yet even if Page is taking testosterone.

I don't think Page would, though. It would seriously impact Page's acting career. By the way, I hate how stilted everything sounds trying to avoid pronouns.

So, even though gender is "fluid," Elliot Page was always a man by JulienMayfair in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is Page even claiming to be a man? The only words found in the coming out letter are "trans" and "queer."

"They" being acceptable as a pronoun makes me think Page intended to come out as non-binary or some unspecified flavor of trans instead. I could be wrong, but I doubt that Page is aiming for full (or even partial) medical transition.

Saddened by the non-binary / theybie trend by [deleted] in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's depressing when you see almost every other GNC female person jumping ship.

I don't know any other GNC women in real life, and to be honest, I would be afraid to get to know them for fear that they would just abandon womanhood, too. It's already happening with celebrities and public figures. Maybe some of the older ones are safe, but I think anyone under 40 is more likely than not to disavow their biological sex.

I've considered it myself. Why struggle to stay a woman in a world that hates all women? Why be GNC when I know I could pass flawlessly as a trans man? Why be female when I struggle with a shit ton of internalized misogyny, loathing, and contempt for other females? I guess the only thing stopping me is that I know it would be wrong, dangerous to my health, and would set a terrible example for the poor GNC girls who did not ask to be born into a society like this. If I abandon womanhood along with everyone else, they'll have no role models. I don't want to hurt the next generation like that.

"Reddit’s Banned Hate Groups Are Still Here": The Atlantic magazine tries (not very hard) to understand WTF that purge was all about by AngelaMotorman in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's crazy. I'm pissed off at the author for writing a hit piece. On the other hand, I guess this could be also be considered free publicity.

By the way, if anyone wants an invite code to Ovarit, feel free to PM me.

QT: Why are people not allowed to feel disappointed when someone transitions? by questioningtw in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's by design. I'm shocked such a small minority group has so much power over the mainstream media.

Sad watching so many lesbians and bi women rejecting womanhood by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Reddit is mostly a cesspool, but I still hang out there for r/antikink. I dip into other subs once in a while, but it's not like it used to be.

Sad watching so many lesbians and bi women rejecting womanhood by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good to see you over here. Ha, I feel kind of fractured juggling Saidit, Reddit, and Ovarit. Of the three, I like Ovarit best, although they don't have a debate circle, so I still hang around on Saidit mostly for s/GCdebatesQT.

I always felt like it would make more sense if I were bisexual, but I don't seem to be. As far as I can tell. My sexual orientation was a lot clearer to me than my gender. I think that was why I questioned if I was trans because I figured if I wasn't a lesbian, there was no reason for me to be so masculine. Luckily I found GC thought before I wandered too far down that path.

Sad watching so many lesbians and bi women rejecting womanhood by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey, nice to see you. Did I know you by another name on Reddit?

Technically heterosexual here, but definitely GNC.

Sad watching so many lesbians and bi women rejecting womanhood by oofreesouloo in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey, you're welcome. I like those videos because they're short and really get to the heart of the matter.

GC: what are the definitions of male and female that do not exclude cis men and cis women who don't produce sperm or egg or removed their genitals? by BubblyBrush in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have to wonder if questions like this one are genuine. Do these posters really think the reality of biological sex is a "gotcha" question?

Biological sex wasn't in question 10 years ago. Chances are almost everyone old enough to visit Saidit sat through a perfectly normal biology class in high school that should have explained this stuff.

Is this what woke homophobia looks like 😓 by EverydayIsSad in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'll never understand this. If you like your genitals and want to have sex with your natal genitals, what makes you the opposite sex? A lot of trans men even say they want to have kids. You can't get more biologically female than that.

Is this what woke homophobia looks like 😓 by EverydayIsSad in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know they get hysterectomies and phalloplasties, but I didn't think doctors did anything to the vaginal canal. I thought I read in some cases, they sew the opening shut. In others, I'm not sure.

I don't want to know too many details. I'm glad the majority of trans men do not opt for any of these surgeries. It sounds like a lot of money and medical risk for poor results.

Is this what woke homophobia looks like 😓 by EverydayIsSad in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They can remove the vagina? I thought bottom surgery for trans men just involved sewing the vaginal opening shut.

Which sounds dangerous and potentially life threatening.

QT: Why are people not allowed to feel disappointed when someone transitions? by questioningtw in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think most people see. They're just scared to say anything. The majority of people still believe that biological sex is real and can't be changed by fiat.

QT: Why are people not allowed to feel disappointed when someone transitions? by questioningtw in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, I'm not going to. But I meant "we" as in society in general. We're being told that we have to do this, otherwise we're horrible bigots.

GC: Do you genuinely desire to have more trans men in public positions (i.e. acting, politics)? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

it still shows power distribution same as men vs women, even after transition - 20 transwomen and 1 transman were elected.

That's true. Lifelong privilege and socialization doesn't go away just because someone changes their identification. We should point out the disparity because this is not a win for sex equality. However, that doesn't mean that the people who were elected fair and square shouldn't have won their seats. Some posters on Ovarit seemed pissed off by the very fact that trans people had been elected. This is the kind of stuff that gets us tagged as bigots. It shouldn't matter if they're transgender or not. We should judge them the same as we would any other politician.

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is definitely one of those areas where we need research into differences between boys and girls and also childhood dysphoria vs. rapid adolescent onset.

GC: Do you genuinely desire to have more trans men in public positions (i.e. acting, politics)? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh yeah, I wasn't familiar with that. I was talking about the American election. Several trans candidates won their races fair and square.

GC: Do you genuinely desire to have more trans men in public positions (i.e. acting, politics)? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think whoever is qualified for a job should get it. If we're going to criticize a politician, it should be based on their policies, not their feelings about their biological sex. It upset me in the last election to see some GC people hating on trans women candidates merely for being trans. Like, okay, let's first find out whether their trans status has any negative effect on their work. If it does, we should complain about that, nothing else.

As far as trans men are concerned, as long as they're qualified for whatever work they're doing, I have no desire for them to hide away and avoid public life. They're citizens. They have every right to live their lives just like anyone else does.

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We need better research for sure. Gender dysphoria in males and females appears to manifest in dramatically different ways.

I’m not sure how I feel about decisions about who should get blockers falling to courts, but it’s better than Tavistock just giving them to everyone.

A huge part of the problem is that the children are not actually being treated. These clinics are not engaged in "watchful waiting." They're engaged in active affirmation of the trans identity, with no investigation whatsoever into past abuse, trauma, or mental health issues. Bell had issues like that which were completely ignored and left unaddressed.

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't have a citation, but I have also read that it dramatically drops after puberty. Which is to say that preventing children from going through puberty is basically denying them the chance to desist.

13 is not after puberty, though. It's right in the middle of it. I would say maybe 15 would be a likelier age to tell whether or not a child's puberty has resolved their gender dysphoria.

QT: Why are people not allowed to feel disappointed when someone transitions? by questioningtw in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Makes sense. The religious comparison is apt. When people are born again, their old self is washed away. A lot of them consider themselves new people. They're "baby Christians," like they were reborn into Christianity.

But I think even if you asked a religious person, they'd still admit that they're not literally a new person. Just metaphorically.

QT: Why are people not allowed to feel disappointed when someone transitions? by questioningtw in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's like George Orwell level, for real. You can't just obliterate any trace of a person who existed. Ellen Page did exist. She was once a baby girl, then a little girl, then a teenage girl, then an adult woman. Elliot Page may no longer want to be known as female, but Page's past as a female person is a undeniable fact of history. It was even captured on film.

QT: Why are people not allowed to feel disappointed when someone transitions? by questioningtw in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The letter was also extremely angry. There was zero talk about Page's gender journey. It seemed more like a political attack. I think Page probably saw the Keira Bell news and decided to lash out. The announcement came just an hour or two after Keira's win. I would guess Page had been planning an announcement anyway, but this was the trigger.

QT: Why are people not allowed to feel disappointed when someone transitions? by questioningtw in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not QT, but it would be different if I believed it was coming from a healthy place. But looking at what's happening in society right now, I'm deeply disturbed. I have to admit I've really been struggling with this news. There's no space in society anymore for women like me. What's the point of trying to remain female? I feel like I should just give up and join them. Except I know it would be the wrong choice.

What I find more upsetting than any individual case is the way this movement insists on rewriting the past. The name Page's parents chose with love for her (and she was a her when she was a baby) is now a "deadname." It's not acceptable to use Page's original name even when talking about the time that she openly and proudly identified as a woman and a lesbian. We have to pretend that Page was always a man and never had any other name. It's just a level of insanity that I can't get behind.

I can't imagine it's healthy for trans people, either. To believe that you are "dead." That everything you were prior to yesterday is "dead." That you're literally a new person with a new sex. It's not logical. It makes zero sense. Transsexuality exists. I do believe that. However, it used to be extremely rare, especially in females, and manifested in early childhood. There is no precedent for what's happening now. I don't believe that Ellen Page as a 5 year old or a 10 year old hated her female body, that she loathed her vagina. If that was the case, there would have been some evidence of it before now.

Ellen Page comes out as a trans man named Elliot by LeoneOkada in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 49 insightful - 1 fun49 insightful - 0 fun50 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My first thought. Anything to distract attention from that huge win.

Also notice how Bell winning her case is nowhere to be found on Google News, not even in the World or Health section. Yet Page is the top story in Entertainment.

Both: How do you feel about the High Court's decision in the Keira Bell case? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm extremely relieved. I was bracing myself for a negative outcome, so this is much better than expected. I just hope some of what's happening in the UK will trickle over to the USA. American doctors are doing things much more extreme than anything that has ever been allowed in England. People here are starting to wake up, but we're much further behind.

Both: How do you feel about the push for people to state preferred pronouns? by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That wouldn't be a bad thing. Gendered names and gendered titles also seem unnecessary.

GC: Can you debunk every one of the arguments Andrew Carter made in this long thread in response to JK Rowling? by CuteAsDuck in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm curious whether people who say things like that have ever actually had sex.

Trans man loses UK legal battle to register as his child's father. UK supreme court refuses appeal, considers child's right to the truth more important than 'validation'. by anonymale in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's like these kids haven't even been told that testosterone could very well sterilize them, and that their uteruses may have needed to be removed by that point. It's fucking tragic. What are these doctors telling them?

Is the "RudeFem" Stereotype Desirable to GC or Is It An Unfortunate Association? by LemurLemur in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, you and your sister are both welcome here if you want to participate. Not everyone is super combative. I feel like GC has got its pitbulls, but we've also got our golden retrievers. I prefer discussion to debate. I can debate about stuff, sure, and I do feel very strongly about things like child transition and BDSM, but I try to avoid making it personal. I know a lot of other GC people may just be out of patience, especially after hearing the same arguments repeatedly, but that's kind of what debate is. Two sides with opposite positions duking it out. It's like Christians vs. atheists. They don't have to hate each other, but sometimes the atheists are frustrated with the Christians because they keep getting the same excuses and what are (to them) non-answers.

The problem is, every time either of us try to talk to GC people, it feels like they genuinely want to drive us away.

We do have our QT regulars, but yeah, I get what you're saying. It was hard to attract long-term QT posters on the old sub, too. I think maybe some GC posters expect people to argue in bad faith, and so they adopt an adversarial tone right off the bat. To be honest, I don't know what it is. I don't think it's productive. But this is why I got in trouble for "tone policing" before. It's like, we already have an unpopular message. Why make it more unpopular with your style of delivery? It's bad strategy if nothing else.

But it's also true that we could bend over backwards to be nice, and it wouldn't matter. There are certain factions that want to shut down all discussion. Not just with threats of violence, but also suppression of our views. The Abigail Shrier book is a good example. She's respectful to trans people. She fully supports adult transition. She's not even against all forms of child transition. But the mere fact that she wrote a book about what's happening to natal female teenagers is enough to warrant active suppression and people calling for her book to be burned (an English professor) and withdrawn from circulation (an ACLU lawyer).

It's fucking scary out there. Which is why maybe GC women can be forgiven for sometimes feeling like we're under siege. It doesn't make personal attacks okay, but you can see why some of us may be out of patience. I'm more a "reach across the aisle" sort of person, but sometimes it feels like the people on the other side of the aisle are positioned to strike us. Women have lost their jobs for saying what we're saying. They've been subjected to rape and death threats. The other side is notably not on the receiving end of violence for their views, certainly not from us.

But back to this sub, I do hope you stick around. You can also not respond to certain people if you feel they're too aggressive. That's what I do. Our current sub is a lot smaller, but I feel like we actually lost some of our pitbulls in the transition. It seems overall more mild, although it does still skew GC. One major advantage here, though, no downvoting. That always pissed me off on the old sub. Like, why have a debate sub if you're going to downvote the other side to oblivion? Either we want debate or we don't. I would hate for this community just to become a big circlejerk.

Do you know any sane trans people to follow? by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Sophie XY/Manaxium, who was one of our trans mods on Reddit's GCdebatesQT sub.

https://twitter.com/Manaxium

Both: How do you feel about the push for people to state preferred pronouns? by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

gender church

Ha, I like that. Religion is a good comparison.

Off Topic Friday: Happy Halloween by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My family is big on board games, so I'll have to look for those.

Off Topic Friday: Election Madness by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm also relieved. I'm still concerned Trump might do something crazy, but he really can't do anything about the election results without attempting to take down our entire democracy. Even if he is that crazy, the rest of the country isn't.

Parents sue school board for teaching their daughter ‘girls are not real’ by Femaleisnthateful in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are you a gender critical feminist? We're abolitionists here. Gender is what causes harm to children. I was once a little girl who "passed" as a boy, and I still have a "butch lesbian" appearance as an adult. That's just who I am. There's nothing wrong with a girl being what society considers masculine or a boy being what society considers feminine.

Gender nonconforming little boys should be protected from a society that thinks there is something wrong with them for being who they are. Little Jazz would never have been harmed if the adults in his life had been loving and supportive of his desire to express himself. In all likelihood, he would have been a GNC boy who grew into an adult gay man, as 90% of very GNC little boys do.

Both: How do you feel about the push for people to state preferred pronouns? by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey, thanks. And yeah, I just view it as politics intruding in a space that should be neutral and non-political. They wouldn't force people to state their religion or political party at work.

Both: How do you feel about the push for people to state preferred pronouns? by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not to mention, there's data that says when women are reminded that they're female, they perform less well on tasks. And when others are reminded other people are female, they expect less from them and see them as less competent. There are studies on that. So forcing women to give "she/her" pronouns could also be a catalyst for treating us worse. Which obviously isn't something that should be encouraged in a work environment.

If I were you, I'd just abstain for now. You could also maybe approach your boss at some point and explain how it feels from a trans perspective, although I don't know if you'd be comfortable outing yourself like that at work.

Is the "RudeFem" Stereotype Desirable to GC or Is It An Unfortunate Association? by LemurLemur in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

No problem, and welcome to the sub. Please feel free to stick around. We could definitely use more QT people.

I've always had some issues with the main GC sub. It's why I avoided it while I was on Reddit, but after the banwave, I said screw it, moderate gender critical women need to have our voices heard, too. So I started participating, but I don't always agree with everything that's said. There was one commenter on Ovarit the other day who basically painted all trans people as perverts who shouldn't be allowed near children. I was like, dude, way to make us all look like a bunch of bigots. Our valid criticisms are overshadowed when people get hyperbolic and start making extreme statements like that.

My main concern has always been for fellow gender nonconforming people, especially natal females, and children of both sexes. It bothers me when people only see the the lack of "niceness" of some of our community without listening to what the rest of us are actually saying. It's a problem for both sides, to be honest. I'm sure there are tons of trans men and women who don't support whatever some random trans person says on Twitter. It's the same everywhere. It's like if someone has a different political opinion these days, they're automatically evil. American politics is plagued with an "us vs. them" mentality.

Is the "RudeFem" Stereotype Desirable to GC or Is It An Unfortunate Association? by LemurLemur in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean, of course. I personally judge people based on their character and their actions, not on their gender identity. I will always defend a well-meaning trans person. I believe most transgender people just want to live their lives in peace. The extreme trans activists online are a loud minority.

The main GC sub (both here and on Ovarit) has some people who paint the entire trans community with too broad of a brush. I don't support that. I even got in trouble a few times on the old debate sub for "tone policing" because I felt like some posters were too aggressive. It's also true that women are socialized not to be aggressive and not to stand up for themselves. I get that, but I'm against men acting like total dicks, too. However, even the most insensitive GC woman has never made a rape or death threat or wished bodily harm or violence on anyone, at least not that I've seen.

Both: How do you feel about the push for people to state preferred pronouns? by peakingatthemoment in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are they forcing you to do it, or just asking?

I think it's wrong. Gender identity is like sexual orientation. It's a personal matter and your company has no right to demand private information like that. Mandatory pronouns not only force gender critical feminists to go against their political beliefs, but also religious people to go against their religious beliefs, and puts GNC people and stealth or closeted trans people in an awkward position.

I would never give my pronouns. If my company didn't accept my answer that I'm not comfortable talking about gender in public, then I'd look for a new job. I know it sounds easy to say that, but I'm not about to let myself be bullied on the matter.

Streisand Effect: "Irreversible Damage" is Now Number 10 Best Seller on Amazon's Most Popular Books in the USA by MarkTwainiac in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Seems like it. The book was selling well before that, but Abigail Shrier was just interviewed on Fox News, so that takes it to a new level of visibility.

The moment Abigail Shrier mentioned the teen hysterectomies by our_team_is_winning in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is anybody on this sub a straight ally or questioning? by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]worried19 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm female and attracted to men. I've always felt weird about the word "straight," but I am heterosexual.

I never visited this sub when it was on Reddit, but after the banwave, I joined all the ones that were GC adjacent. As a gender nonconforming woman, I'm very concerned about the current situation for fellow GNC women, many of whom are homosexual or bisexual. I'm also distressed by what's happening to GNC children and teenagers.

8 out of 9 girls at school decided to de-transition because of lockdown by Narrator in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Some girls are given testosterone as young as 12 and double mastectomies as young as 13.

We're talking about literal children in those cases.

Parents sue school board for teaching their daughter ‘girls are not real’ by Femaleisnthateful in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's precisely because feminine little boys who want to wear dresses are seen as "weird" that so many of them are being transitioned.

Once upon a time, Jazz Jennings was just a gender nonconforming 3 year old who wanted to wear dresses and whose parents didn't want to let him wear them out of the house. An innocent child's fertility and sexual function was destroyed because society thinks a boy in a dress is wrong.

Parents sue school board for teaching their daughter ‘girls are not real’ by Femaleisnthateful in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don't forget books. Authors are putting tons of transgender child characters in books for kids in elementary and middle school.

Even if your kid's school isn't that woke, every library in the country will have these books and young children will innocently pick them up.

Is the "RudeFem" Stereotype Desirable to GC or Is It An Unfortunate Association? by LemurLemur in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Some gender critical women embrace the stereotype. Some of us don't.

I think the bottom line is that it doesn't matter how nice we are. J.K. Rowling bent over backwards to be nice and compassionate and caring, and look what it got her. Endless rape and death threats. Certain people hate us for what we say, not how we say it.

Opinions on the "twin studies" of gender identity? by DistantGlimmer in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If we view transsexuality as an "extreme" form of homosexuality, it makes sense. Don't studies also reveal that half of identical twins share the same sexual orientation?

Off Topic Friday: Happy Halloween by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sounds fun. What board game did you play?

Off Topic Friday: Happy Halloween by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, it was really bad. I'm not that into horror movies, but Winchester was just stupid.

"Anti TERF Flag": TumblrInAction by EmptyCode in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Definitely red for menstrual blood. Actually, I think it could be all the different shades of blood.

GC: If a neopenis feels and looks like a penis, what makes it not a penis? What is the difference between a neopenis and a penis when they both look and feel similar? I don't get it by CuteAsDuck in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Have you ever seen a neopenis?

It's my understanding that they are not remotely like an actual penis. That's why bottom surgery for trans men is so rare.

"Anti TERF Flag": TumblrInAction by EmptyCode in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 15 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Somebody should repurpose it and proclaim it as a GC pride flag.

I'm sure someone more creative than I am can think up meanings for the different colors.

BREAKING: Vancouver Judge orders surgeon to NOT remove breasts of transgender teen by purrvana in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good to know. It would probably be too much to hope that Snopes is impartial. I don't trust most mainstream media these days.

Even the author of this article seems to realize that it would be insane for doctors to perform that surgery on a minor without parental consent, but doctors are insane these days. Surgeons don't abide by medical ethics. All they care about is getting paid. Even if some doctors do care, you can always find one who doesn't. My question was more if any kid under 18 had managed to get surgery in Oregon without parental consent because that would be a big boost of visibility to the insanity that's happening to children. We all know it's happening to kids with parental consent, but without it, that would be a bigger news story.

If it was my kid, I'd hightail it to another state. The government can't take kids away from parents for not medicalizing them, at least not yet, much to the displeasure of some trans activists.

BREAKING: Vancouver Judge orders surgeon to NOT remove breasts of transgender teen by purrvana in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I had not heard that about Oregon. Snopes gives some conflicting information:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/oregon-teen-sex-change-law

Are there verified cases of surgeries being carried out on kids that young in Oregon without parental consent?

BREAKING: Vancouver Judge orders surgeon to NOT remove breasts of transgender teen by purrvana in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

California for sure, but I assume all over the country. Parents can easily travel to a different state to find a doctor willing to do it.

Olson had 68 surgically diminished girls fill out her “novel” scale between one and five years after their surgery. Thirty-three of these girls were under 18 at the time of surgery. Two were only 13 years old, and five were only 14.

https://thefederalist.com/2018/09/12/u-s-doctors-performing-double-mastectomies-healthy-13-year-old-girls

Odeneal: How many patients have you referred for the chest surgery?

Olson-Kennedy: Probably about 200.

https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2019/12/09/the-tragedy-of-the-trans-child

I don't believe these surgeries can proceed without the consent of the parents, but if Olson-Kennedy had her way, they would. She advocates for children being removed from parents who are not on board with medical transition.

GC: I have Ovarit invite codes, if anyone wants one by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would, but I don't recognize your user name and you don't seem to have any post history, so I'm not comfortable. I think we're only supposed to send them to trusted people that we know are GC or GC-leaning.

GC: I have Ovarit invite codes, if anyone wants one by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Absolutely. I'll send you a message. It will be good to see you there.

GC: I have Ovarit invite codes, if anyone wants one by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sure thing. I'll PM you. As far as I can tell, they don't have an expiration date. Once you've got one and you've registered, you're good to go.

BREAKING: Vancouver Judge orders surgeon to NOT remove breasts of transgender teen by purrvana in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The worst thing is that doctors are performing double mastectomies on children as young as 13 in the USA. I feel like that fact needs to be spread far and wide because so many people aren't aware it's happening. Even many trans activists will deny it, despite the fact that the doctors involved freely admit it is being done.

Off Topic Friday: Election Madness by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's my impression. But Democrats could take the Senate if they win the Georgia runoffs in January.

Off Topic Friday: Election Madness by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

True, I feel like Ovarit is better on that score.

Off Topic Friday: Election Madness by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Totally agree. I can't believe the race was so close, with Trump being such a deplorable human being. Any other Republican, I could understand.

Off Topic Friday: Election Madness by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Biden's not great, but Trump is quite simply irredeemable. I'm happy about his win even though I'm worried about the Equality Act.

Off Topic Friday: Election Madness by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If I was in a swing state, it would have been a harder decision.

Off Topic Friday: Election Madness by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I voted the rest of the ballot, but didn't choose Trump or Biden. My state was going red anyway, so it's not like my lack of a vote affected anything. I just couldn't justify making an affirmative choice for Biden, even though I'm hoping he'll win because Trump is a nightmare.

GC: I have Ovarit invite codes, if anyone wants one by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Absolutely, I'll PM you.