What does the failure of TRAs to change the Gender Recognition Act mean for the future of self-ID? Could things be changing?

worried19 · 2020-09-28T07:07:46+00:00

Not to mention the possible and likely consensual sex

And what about pregnancy? Mixing males and females together is going to cause a lot of unintended pregnancy. That would be a huge financial burden on the prison system, and then what happens to the babies if they're conceived in prison and both parents are incarcerated long term?

worried19 · 2020-09-28T02:43:42+00:00

Out of curiosity, what about a man like John Maclean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ27ooEfEfo

Do you see yourself as similar to him at at all? He's not exactly your standard man. Do you think you could stand to be in the same room together?

worried19 · 2020-09-28T00:00:42+00:00

Agreed, and it's not like trans women don't deserve safe spaces. They absolutely do. The governor should have signed a law requiring prisons to have safe wings or protected units for them. But self ID is not the way to go.

worried19 · 2020-09-27T23:57:39+00:00

This is dangerous for female prisoners. Isn't there some sort of prisoners' rights group that female inmates can appeal to?

Also, no shit you're not going to find trans men being put into male prisons. Thank God at least for small favors. The mainstream media isn't going to touch that one with a ten foot pole because anyone with a brain knows that you don't put a female-born person who has never had any hormone treatment and still has breasts and a vagina in with dangerous male prisoners. But if they wanted to go, they could. Isn't this a huge liability for prisons once those prisoners inevitably get raped or impregnated?

I absolutely am in support of trans women prisoners being given safe, protected spaces. General male population is not safe for them. They need their own wing, at the very least, of others in the same situation. But self ID in prisons is not the way to go. It's the absolute worst place to have self ID.

worried19 · 2020-09-27T23:49:39+00:00

I sincerely hope so. But I'm not sure. California's governor apparently just signed a new law allowing self ID in prisons regardless of whether the people involved have had hormone treatment or surgeries. Natal males with intact, functioning penises are going to be allowed in general population in women's prisons. And also the converse, natal females with breasts and vaginas will be allowed into men's prisons. I guess it's only a matter of time before enough terrible things happen for the lawsuits to begin.

worried19 · 2020-09-27T23:44:41+00:00

It hasn't trickled over to the USA yet, but it will. A lot of people here will have even better cases, considering the fact that many were minors and they've been doing irreversible medical things to children as young as 8.

worried19 · 2020-09-27T16:55:22+00:00

Has anyone in the USA sued yet?

I figure a lot of them might have even better cases considering they were minors. At least one of the young women from the Pique Resilience Project went to (I'm assuming from her description) Planned Parenthood. You can walk in there on your 18th birthday and walk out with a prescription for testosterone, no medical evaluation or psychological assessment required.

worried19 · 2020-09-26T19:14:48+00:00

I'm not speaking of actual transsexuals, but the 4000% increase in natal female young people disavowing womanhood.

If this was inborn and not societally induced, you'd also see a 4000% jump in the number of natal males, but that's not happening.

worried19 · 2020-09-26T17:15:13+00:00

This article is dumb. Anyone should feel free to say astrology is bullshit.

worried19 · 2020-09-26T17:13:30+00:00

So glad to see this organization being written about.

Child transition was the issue that really peaked me, and it remains my top concern.

worried19 · 2020-09-26T16:46:20+00:00

I also feel sorry for the trans people out there who are trying to live their lives quietly and now have to deal with their community being hijacked by what are basically extremists.

I wonder if it might be beneficial for them to found some sort of organization. There's power in numbers, and they're in a position to speak out and actually be listened to.

worried19 · 2020-09-25T16:55:49+00:00

That's definitely not right. We need medical protections for all people. If you go to a doctor, you should expect to get quality care.

It's understandable if a doctor isn't capable of handling a trans-specific medical issue. But just to deny it because they disapprove is wrong.

worried19 · 2020-09-25T16:51:59+00:00

I think they're marginalized. So are GC women, but the experience of being gender critical in New York City is going to be particularly negative. That's one of the "wokest" places on earth. Most of the country is not so liberal. I wouldn't want to be trans in a conservative state. Their experiences are not pleasant.

What worries me is the aggressiveness of no-platforming and cancel culture. It's reached beyond the woke enclaves like your city and spread out to the rest of the world. Even if no one would fire me for being GC where I live, I was still affected by the Reddit banwave. I'm still affected by the media's pushing of affirmation of transgender children and the erasure of GNC women.

worried19 · 2020-09-25T16:44:20+00:00

And according to the executive order Trump issued, providers can deny care to trans people based on their own religious beliefs.

They can deny emergency care? That doesn't seem right. It's one thing if a Christian doctor won't prescribe hormones, but he or she should still be obligated to treat a trans person's heart attack or stroke or other serious medical ailment.

worried19 · 2020-09-25T16:41:40+00:00

This year, the significant erosion is being driven by females ages 18-34, where comfort levels fell from 64% last year to 52% this year.

I think we all know why, but this organization would never dream of seriously exploring the cause. They lump all of LGBT together, when everyone can tell the LGB side of things is not what's triggering the decline.

worried19 · 2020-09-25T02:11:15+00:00

It's weird because I'm more drawn to talking about trans men than I am about trans women. Probably because I'm a GNC female person. I understand the concerns GC has about trans women, but to be honest, none of those things affect me personally. I'm not a lesbian, so I don't run into cotton ceiling rhetoric. I'm also very comfortable with coed nudity, so public restrooms and locker rooms aren't an issue for me.

worried19 · 2020-09-25T02:07:59+00:00

That seems like an excessively high bar to me, too.

I think physical dysphoria should be a requirement, but social dysphoria should not be a disqualifier. Of course, in my ideal world, all trans people would be entitled to extensive therapy, free of charge, to help them examine what they feel might be causing those issues. If therapy helps to eradicate their social dysphoria, then obviously that's a good outcome. But if both types of dysphoria are still persisting and are severe enough to interfere with the ability to live a normal life, then transition should come up as an option.

worried19 · 2020-09-24T16:30:41+00:00

I don't think passing transsexuals are really on anyone's list of people to be concerned about. If no one can tell, they blend in and can live under the radar. It seems to me that most GC women are more concerned about the ability to call out interlopers in female spaces. If someone is acting suspicious and was obviously born male, they want the right to complain and have that person removed from the space. Passing trans women would be safe.

As far as trans men are concerned, to be honest, they seem like kind of an afterthought for both sides. No one cares much what trans men do. They're no danger to natal males and also no danger to fellow natal females. If anything, the GC crowd would be more inclined to want to protect them from entering violent male spaces like prisons, although God knows I think the vast majority of trans men have enough sense to know it's not safe for them there regardless.

worried19 · 2020-09-24T04:41:39+00:00

That's fair enough. I don't mind the "sex" part being included because I think it's integral to the issues at hand. I get that it may seem too clinical to others, though.

worried19 · 2020-09-24T04:18:09+00:00

Seahorses are cool and a great example of nature's diversity, but they have nothing to do with human reproduction.

Just for fun, slug sex is also really interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG9qpZ89qzc

worried19 · 2020-09-24T04:08:49+00:00

Not doubting that. Still, I think it's a useful word. To me, it sounds more serious than "transgender."

worried19 · 2020-09-24T02:36:19+00:00

Hey, I'm back. It was a little too late to get a test. Also hard to keep the masks on for an extended period of time. I was just with my immediate family, so we ended up taking them off. Didn't go out to socialize, and only saw my grandparents outdoors briefly. We kept our masks on for that. All things considered, I think we were pretty safe.

worried19 · 2020-09-24T02:21:18+00:00

I don't think transsexual sounds any worse than homosexual. They're both perfectly good words.

Is "transsexual" used in porn a lot? Granted, I never saw that type of porn, but I would expect them to use the other t-word or other derogatory terms like "shemale."

worried19 · 2020-09-24T02:18:35+00:00

It should be sex dysphoria. Calling it gender dysphoria not only muddies the waters for people experiencing genuine sex dysphoria, but also inadvertently puts pressure on GNC people to consider whether or not they are trans, even in the absence of any bodily distress.

worried19 · 2020-09-24T02:04:42+00:00

I think it would go back to the way things were 30 years ago, minus the horrific discrimination. Trans people would be protected on the basis of their gender nonconformity and spaces would be set aside to make sure they weren't endangered. It seems to me that what the majority of GC is most upset about is the forcible claiming of women's single-sex spaces and many trans women's assertions that they are entitled to female-only categories. Without that, I don't think there would ever have been any animosity between natal women and trans women. GC is a more of a reaction to the current climate. More of a defense than an offense, in sports terms.

worried19 · 2020-09-23T16:43:24+00:00

I wouldn't say I'm necessarily part of any movement. I'm not an activist. All I do is write about this stuff online. I've never been presented with an opportunity to vote for or against anything related to transgender people.

Or the vocal part that actually pushes for legislation infront of the UK parliament. That part can't possibly include any transsexual wether man or woman.

I'm not in the UK. What legislation in particular are you thinking of? As far as I know, women in the UK are fighting to retain their right to single-sex spaces. I'm not aware of them trying to make it illegal for adults to access hormones or surgery. I haven't heard that they're against protected spaces for transsexual women, just that transsexual women may not belong in the same spaces as natal women.

The issue is, that your movement is pushing the idea that trans people are delusional or forced [by the patriarchy].

They're not delusional. They know what sex they are. They're just unhappy with it. I don't think anyone knows what causes sex dysphoria. It's like depression or anxiety. No one really knows what causes those either, but they're real, and they cause people distress. People shouldn't be discriminated against for having mental health issues, no matter what they are. The patriarchy hurts plenty of people, trans and non-trans alike. It doesn't mean that people shouldn't have the ability to control their own destiny. If people want to adopt the social roles of the opposite sex, then they should feel free to, with or without hormones or surgery.

This means, that no transsexual would be allowed surgery for transition. So if a movement say "surgery is okay as long as they are able to make the decision themselves" while at same time pushing that the people who seek them out aren't able to make that decision, seems dishonest.

That seems like a huge reach to me, and I don't think it's accurate of what GC believes. Trans people aren't mentally incompetent. They're adults who have perfectly normal brain function, reasoning skills, emotional maturity, etc. They can make their own medical decisions. To my way of thinking, if someone is a grown adult of sound mind and body, they can make a reasonably free choice on whether or not to pursue transition. I say reasonably because we are all influenced by society, but as free as it can be while living under a patriarchy. The government here is not going to threaten or force people to transition, unlike in Iran.

worried19 · 2020-09-23T16:25:46+00:00

It doesn't make sense from a logical standpoint. If a man dates a woman, and she's feminine, then he's straight, but if she changes up her appearance and becomes GNC, then all of a sudden he's gay or bisexual? It doesn't work like that. Nothing has materially changed in either case. She still has a female body.

worried19 · 2020-09-23T16:22:30+00:00

No, I'm exactly the opposite. If I did have an innate sense of gender identity, it would be masculine, not feminine. I began to refuse femininity in preschool. I've always been extremely gender nonconforming. There is nothing about the female social role that appeals to me. On the contrary, the thought of myself being forced to perform it makes me suicidal.

I acknowledge my biological sex as female and don't think that the "cis" label makes sense for GNC people who actively reject the expected appearance and social roles assigned to their natal sex. I'm a woman because of how I was born, and that's it.

worried19 · 2020-09-19T15:01:37+00:00

Yeah, definitely wearing a mask. Probably won't go to visit my grandparents either this trip, just to be safe. They're healthy, but you never know.

worried19 · 2020-09-19T06:30:13+00:00

I'm doing okay. Kind of stressed out. The pandemic and the way the world seems to be falling apart is weighing on me. Sometimes I find it hard to stay in a healthy, positive frame of mind.

My partner and I decided to go out of town for the first time in ages and visit my family. It will be good to see them again, but I wonder if I'm being too paranoid or not paranoid enough about the virus. Should I wear a mask the whole time? As far as I know, neither of us is infected, but we can't be sure without being tested.

worried19 · 2020-09-19T05:09:11+00:00

"Cis" is a label imposed by those who believe in gender identity.

I am female and acknowledge myself as a woman, even though I do not identify with womanhood. I would not call myself "cis" simply because I state my biological sex. If anything, I'm exactly the opposite. I am not "on the same side" as the female gender. I hate everything associated with the female gender.

Now I'm not one of those who believes "cis" is a slur, but from my perspective it makes zero sense to call an extremely GNC woman "cis." I'm not sure about Leoaica, but I personally have rejected gender and go strictly by biological sex.

worried19 · 2020-09-19T03:19:49+00:00

This hasn't happened to me yet. I'm extremely GNC, so I'm surprised it hasn't, but I live in a very un-woke area.

If (or should I say when) it does happen, I'm just going to say I'm female. If they press me on it, I'll say that I'm uncomfortable talking about gender in public.

worried19 · 2020-09-19T02:31:51+00:00

I agree it's scary. You may be 14, but you're ahead of the game in realizing there's something messed up about all this. Gender nonconforming girls used to be tomboys. Now they're being told they aren't girls at all.

It's also alarming the number of "gay trans boys" out there. I can't tell if the character in this book is one, but this is a population that has no historical precedent. Their number would have been close to zero. Literally no evidence whatsoever. They were just straight girl teenagers, girls who dated boys. Almost all female transsexuals in the past were attracted to other females.

worried19 · 2020-09-19T02:26:07+00:00

It's disturbing that teenagers are being encouraged to make irreversible medical choices before they've even explored their own sexuality. They've never had a relationship. They've never lived on their own. They're not old enough to vote or even drive in many cases. Yet certain activists have decided they're old enough to decide to sterilize themselves and cut their breasts off.

Also interesting that Felix is described as "queer." I wonder what that means. Is the character dating a natal boy? Or a natal girl? According to a review, this book also contains a "demiboy."

worried19 · 2020-09-19T02:23:20+00:00

Apparently it's a bestselling hardcover book and was also picked up for a TV series.

https://deadline.com/2020/08/amazon-kacen-callender-felix-ever-after-1203025246

worried19 · 2020-09-18T16:08:45+00:00

How do you figure that? GC is for gender abolition on the social level. No one that I've seen has proposed making it illegal for adults to have alterations done to their bodies. If there are people saying that hormones and surgeries should be outlawed, I definitely would not support it. If a woman can get breast implants, a trans man should be able to get a mastectomy, as long as both are of sound mind and intellectually capable of making that decision for themselves. I've never seen GC say they're against plastic surgery, except on minors.

We're talking about a group that sees the very existence of transsexualism as a human rights violation.

I mean, I don't see how it could be a human rights violation if we're talking about adults who are deciding for themselves. What's happening in Iran is a human rights violation because the poor people there are being threatened with violence and death. That's not happening in the Western world. There may be social pressure, but the state is not forcibly transitioning any adults.

worried19 · 2020-09-18T05:04:03+00:00

That's interesting. I'm younger than you are, but maybe I was more sheltered. A lot of the things you listed would never in a million years have occurred to me. They're just totally outside my frame of reference and experience.

worried19 · 2020-09-18T03:23:42+00:00

GNC women and girls are fleeing womanhood in droves for precisely this reason. They're being told they're not real women, that masculinity is a sign they weren't meant to be born female. I was reading reviews of one of my favorite books the other day, and it was disturbing how several people seem to deeply want the butch lesbian main character to be non-female.

I posted this on Ovarit too, but I was looking at reviews of Girl Mans Up by M-E Girard. A lot of reviewers are still convinced the main character Pen is on the trans spectrum despite her denying it outright. One of the reviewers complained about the author seeming like an "older lesbian" (code for TERF) and there was a reviewer who felt that it wasn't nuanced enough in terms of 21st century gender complexity. They really want Pen to be something other than a teenage girl and seem upset that she claims her femaleness and womanhood despite her masculinity.

Pen on how she knows she's not a boy:

"I don't feel wrong inside myself. I don’t feel like I'm someone I shouldn’t be. Only other people make me feel like there's something wrong with me."

worried19 · 2020-09-18T03:17:48+00:00

Well, some butch women do get mastectomies and go on low-dose T.

If the mark of being a trans man is willingness to go "all the way," what about those trans men who don't want to?

worried19 · 2020-09-18T02:20:29+00:00

Self ID seems like such a flimsy thing to me. Like there are no requirements, no qualifications. I can start calling myself a man tomorrow, and all of a sudden I'm male and my boyfriend is gay based on my say so? It just doesn't make logical sense. I'd still be the exact same person I was the day before.

worried19 · 2020-09-18T02:18:19+00:00

I'm familiar with her and think she's great, but I can't imagine she would ever refer to herself as "cis."

worried19 · 2020-09-18T02:17:15+00:00

May, but according to most of QT, they don't necessarily have to. What if they're not on testosterone yet or don't even want to go on testosterone?

There's no visual difference between the two otherwise. Both butch women and trans men wear men's clothes and have men's haircuts.

worried19 · 2020-09-18T02:15:10+00:00

Makes sense. I can understand calling them trans in that case, but I don't see how they have a credible claim to actual manhood or womanhood.

worried19 · 2020-09-17T16:59:42+00:00

After beating the child for being feminine, which she herself admits. And this is celebrated by the mainstream media as a glorious affirmation of this child's so-called natural inclination towards girlhood.

Kimberly turned to a DIY form of conversion therapy. She dressed Kai in camouflage and held her down to cut her blond hair into a flattop. Since most of the family’s seven children are boys—Kimberly has one adult daughter—there were no “girl toys” at home, but Kimberly asked the Christian daycare Kai attended to hide any baby dolls from her as well. When Kai turned her T-shirts into skirts or insisted she was a girl, Kimberly spanked her. When Kai asked for a Minnie Mouse birthday cake, Kimberly bought her one with Mickey.

“No matter how much punishment this kid got, you couldn’t beat it out of her,” Kimberly said. “You couldn’t pray it out, I couldn’t cast it out.”

https://splinternews.com/she-was-an-ultraconservative-texas-christian-then-kai-1793859323

worried19 · 2020-09-17T16:56:11+00:00

She's the child's legal parent. She's not being denied rights to the child. The child can still call her Mom. I don't get why endless amounts of money and time are being spent on something so trivial. It's just to prove a political point. What real-world effect does it have? I'm open to being convinced this is somehow necessary, but as far as I can tell, this parent is in a privileged position with enshrined legal rights already.

worried19 · 2020-09-17T06:08:32+00:00

Well, I sure as hell wouldn't let my child be a child actor. If they really wanted to perform, they could perform in a local theater, but I wouldn't want my kid exposed to the masses through television or movies. I suppose it's somewhat hypocritical since I watch what the media puts out, but I think fame is unhealthy for anyone, especially for kids who have no frame of reference.

worried19 · 2020-09-17T04:49:09+00:00

Yes, but you've taken steps to medically transition. If someone doesn't do that, how are they different from any other nonconforming member of their natal sex? They don't have either the biological or the social experience of the opposite sex.

worried19 · 2020-09-17T03:46:43+00:00

Why can't trans people and GNC people be protected under the same umbrella? I don't get why they need a special category. What's the difference between a female non-binary person and a regular GNC woman? I don't know what this company is accused of doing, but if they mistreated the employee because of gender nonconformity, that's not okay. It's this tying of nonconformity to transgender identification that I find problematic.

worried19 · 2020-09-17T03:42:57+00:00

I guess to me it's like filming a rape scene or a molestation scene. There are lots of those in movies. I don't know exactly how they film them, but presumably they take precautions not to traumatize the child actors. I imagine there needs to be a lot of discussion beforehand, both with the director and the kid's family.

worried19 · 2020-09-17T02:47:56+00:00

Would you still consider them men, though, or just trans men?

If they can't have a male social experience or be taken for men by society, then society is going to treat them the same way they'd treat a gender nonconforming woman.

worried19 · 2020-09-17T02:46:50+00:00

So in your view, only physical dysphoria would count, not social?

Also, trans men try to look more like men where butches try to look like masculine women.

What is the difference? Visually speaking, a pre-everything trans man and a butch lesbian are indistinguishable.

Some trans men don't medically transition for a number of reasons.

Would you still consider them men if they do not have male bodies and due to lack of hormone use cannot be seen or treated as men by society?

worried19 · 2020-09-17T02:43:17+00:00

Me, too. Do these women not understand that they're throwing their fellow women under the bus? Do they really believe that what they're doing is progressive? I just don't get it.

worried19 · 2020-09-17T02:32:27+00:00

That's also backed up by figures from the USA.

Experiences also varied across gender, with transgender men (51%) and non-binary people with female on their original birth certificate (58%) being more likely to have been sexually assaulted, in contrast to transgender women (37%) and non-binary people with male on their original birth certificate (41%)

https://www.transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/USTS-Full-Report-FINAL.PDF

People born female are more likely to experience sexual assault than those born male.

worried19 · 2020-09-17T02:20:28+00:00

Agreed, but that's the dominant view nowadays. The idea that feminism is for females has become more of a niche viewpoint.

worried19 · 2020-09-16T16:40:21+00:00

That's a good point. I didn't think about women with PCOS.

I think masculinity is more accepted in various cultures and also at various ages. In a society with low pressure to conform to femininity, especially pornified femininity, you'd see far fewer girls and women transitioning to male. Although other factors go into that as well.

By the way, your example pictures were interesting, but neither of those women strike me as particularly GNC, even with the short hair. If a young woman in Russia chooses to wear men's clothing exclusively and have a men's haircut, how is that generally received socially? I know there's a lot of homophobia still.

worried19 · 2020-09-16T16:36:52+00:00

True, and I feel like many GNC women start off accepting themselves as "cis," but a slow and consistent societal pressure leads to a breaking point where they either no longer consider themselves women or decide to throw gender out the window entirely.

worried19 · 2020-09-16T16:34:52+00:00

Do you think that must include physical dysphoria, or would social be enough?

What if the person with dysphoria would like to medically transition, but is unable to because of circumstances? Do they still have a basis for claiming manhood?

worried19 · 2020-09-16T06:54:16+00:00

The comment section is sane and extremely supportive of Rowling.

worried19 · 2020-09-16T06:50:30+00:00

I think most liberals just view it as a given that feminism can include men. Before I started learning about radical feminism, I had no idea anyone thought it should be restricted to women.

From the QT perspective, feminism is about equality between the sexes and also benefits men and boys.

worried19 · 2020-09-16T06:27:22+00:00

That's called heterosexuality. Aren't most people attracted to gender presentation?

I don't get this viewpoint. Is my male partner gay or bisexual because I have a masculine gender presentation? Or do you think there need to be hormones involved?

worried19 · 2020-09-16T06:24:56+00:00

If GCs include trans men, then the word includes has no meaning beyond a technicality.

But if we include all female-born people, that means even the ones who don't want to be associated with us. What's the difference between GC including trans men and GC including conservative Republican Trump-loving women?

worried19 · 2020-09-16T05:42:54+00:00

a person's gender (socially speaking) should simply be based on what they decide for themselves rather than some arbitrary characteristic of socialization.

Do you mean gender presentation or gender identity? If the latter, the "pick and choose" option seems quite harmful given that we're talking about a hierarchy. Men are the dominant, revered sex. Men are the default human. Girls are socialized into a woman-hating culture. Telling a girl who hates female gender stereotypes and gender presentation that her preferences mean she's really a boy or man is regressive, given that the female social and sexual role is considered inferior to the male one.

Instead of strong, aggressive, tough, masculine girls being told that their sex has nothing to do with their personality, they are instead being told that their personality may mean that they aren't really girls, that it's perfectly valid for them to choose to be a boy or man instead. Those of us who are left acknowledging our biological sex are then assumed to have a "cis" identity and are told that we feel aligned with those negative stereotypes.

worried19 · 2020-09-15T19:00:20+00:00

The comment section is reasonable. Just goes to show the mainstream doesn't support these attempts at censorship.

worried19 · 2020-09-15T18:11:47+00:00

They're doing the same thing to The Ickabog. Multiple one-star reviews near the top.

Here's one by someone named Ava, with 29 likes.

I DID NOT ACTUALLY READ THIS!!!! Boycott JKR, no transphobia!!! We stand by our trans, non-binary, and gender non-conforming siblings!!!!!

Why do they insist on dragging GNC people into this? I am a masculine woman, not transgender.

worried19 · 2020-09-15T17:05:32+00:00

I'm not saying I personally have a problem with it. But the idea that certain speech must be compelled otherwise you're not being respectful bothers me.

I suppose if I was in a scenario where a person who was acting in bad faith was demanding certain pronouns, I would extract myself from the situation if possible. If I could not extract myself, like at work, I would bend over backwards to avoid using any pronoun at all.

worried19 · 2020-09-15T02:14:16+00:00

But there's no difference for the pedophile. He's getting off either way.

worried19 · 2020-09-14T16:47:35+00:00

I guess, but since I'm more moderate than liberal, that party wouldn't be a good fit for me regardless.

worried19 · 2020-09-14T16:46:25+00:00

I'm disappointed that so far there's no activity. But maybe it'll pick up.

worried19 · 2020-09-14T16:45:45+00:00

Since when is "they" disrespectful? It's supposed to be a neutral pronoun. Are you arguing people should be forced to call that J-person up in Canada "she?"

You can't always avoid talking to or about people in real life.

worried19 · 2020-09-14T04:26:48+00:00

So you think those movies should be banned? I get the problem with pedophiles, but don't pedophiles seek out any movie with a child in it? They don't need to go out and find a special movie. They can watch a commercial or any innocent kids' film and see the kinds of things they want.

worried19 · 2020-09-14T04:20:15+00:00

No, she was 17. And she was 11 when she was put on estrogen. She was given estrogen without ever having virilized, so that's automatic sterilization right there. That's incredibly young. It's also why her surgery fell apart immediately after leaving the hospital. She had genitals the size of a child that age. She didn't have enough material for a regular vaginoplasty.

She was also 3 years old when first brought to a gender therapist. Poor kid has spent her entire life in the limelight. I feel terrible for Jazz and I will defend her against anything negative said about her because she had absolutely zero choice in what happened to her.

Anyway, I would like more follow up research. Do these kids regret it in later life? Would trans men like to have transitioned as kids?

We know there are plenty of desisters and destransitioners, some of whom started in middle school. What matters to me is whether these children are able to give informed consent. I do not think 11 and 12 and 13 year olds can give meaningful consent to permanent sterilization or irreversible surgeries. I'm not crazy about transitioning older teenagers either, but I'd prefer informed consent (even without an actual diagnosis) for everyone on their 18th birthday rather than what's happening now.

worried19 · 2020-09-14T04:11:12+00:00

Not sure I follow, but everyone should respect everyone else's right to refuse sex or romance. Biological sex and sexual orientation don't matter when it comes to that. If you don't want to date or fuck someone, you don't even need to give a reason. "No" is a complete sentence and should be respected.

worried19 · 2020-09-14T04:07:29+00:00

It's definitely the safest option. Male prisons are dangerous enough for people who were born male. A female-born person is just not safe, especially if they haven't had any type of bottom surgery. I hope safety would win out over identity politics. There's no reason a trans man can't be in a women's prison and have the guards and fellow prisoners acknowledge him as trans.

worried19 · 2020-09-14T04:02:54+00:00

I can buy the others. I'm not even trans and I'm happy to go into men's restrooms, but hell if I'd ever choose to be locked up with violent male criminals. There's just no fucking way. And most trans men don't have their vaginas sewn shut. They don't have phalloplasties. It's very clear they're female when they're naked.

worried19 · 2020-09-14T00:36:14+00:00

Has there ever been a verified case of a trans man choosing a male prison? I can't honestly believe any would. It's also a huge liability for the prison.

worried19 · 2020-09-14T00:32:08+00:00

Also, in the US, you can't start hormones until 16, and you can't have SRS until 18.

This is untrue. There is no lower age limit for hormones. Johanna Olson-Kennedy regularly prescribes testosterone to 12 year olds. The youngest I've found is 8 years old. A 8 year old female child was included in the following study about testosterone:

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/3f4f51_a929d049f7fb46c7a72c4c86ba43869a.pdf

Olson-Kennedy gives testosterone to 13 and 14 year-old girls “frequently” and to 12 year-olds “sometimes.” She has absolutely no concern if a girl later regrets the permanent change of voice and male-pattern body and facial hair, along with potentially compromised fertility and sexual function.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/johanna-olson-kennedy-gender-affirmative-approach

Jazz Jennings was given sexual reassignment surgery at 17. Olson-Kennedy also regularly recommends children for mastectomies as young as 13:

Olson had 68 surgically diminished girls fill out her “novel” scale between one and five years after their surgery. Thirty-three of these girls were under 18 at the time of surgery. Two were only 13 years old, and five were only 14.

https://thefederalist.com/2018/09/12/u-s-doctors-performing-double-mastectomies-healthy-13-year-old-girls

Odeneal: How many patients have you referred for the chest surgery?

Olson-Kennedy: Probably about 200.

https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2019/12/09/the-tragedy-of-the-trans-child

The reason I'm linking these is because I've seen far too many activists claim this never happens, that no child is touched until their 16th or 18th birthday.

worried19 · 2020-09-14T00:06:27+00:00

She made a really interesting video about that, too.

How a lesbian can believe she is a gay trans man

worried19 · 2020-09-14T00:00:35+00:00

Thanks for explaining. Yeah, the Pretty Baby movie sounds incredibly disturbing and not something I would ever watch.

The Blue Lagoon doesn't sound terrible. But I'd have to actually watch it to get an accurate opinion. Both films are pretty old, and neither appears to be on Netflix.

worried19 · 2020-09-13T23:56:35+00:00

Most of QT believes that. I would only apply the "creepy" label to those who push cotton ceiling rhetoric. As for gay men, as long as the trans man is okay with rejection and doesn't blame a homosexual male for not wanting to date or have sex, there should be no issue.

I doubt a straight man would be attracted to someone so masculine.

If they've been on testosterone, sure. I assume bisexual men are their best bet.

worried19 · 2020-09-13T17:03:05+00:00

Gender critical feminism would apply to all female people, including those who don't want to be female or identify out of being female, along with those who support the patriarchy, like conservative women. That's how GC would see it, anyway. All female people are part of the same sex class, no matter how they feel about it, and all are victims of patriarchal misogyny.

I don't personally believe in misgendering. If someone is an adult and has freely undertaken transition, I'm happy to use their preferred pronoun as long as they're not a criminal, which trans men almost never are. I get that some GC people have a philosophical or political objection to using an incorrect pronoun, but I don't see what good that does. Where I lose patience is when trans men outright deny biology. Saying they're not of the female sex, which is nonsensical and harmful. Every trans man was once a baby girl, then a little girl, then (hopefully) a teenage girl. Even if they identify as men now, they can't erase the fact that they were born female.
Well, I'm curious about this one. I will always listen to what someone has to say. People's motivations are varied and may not be evident even to themselves. You also have very different populations of trans men. There are the trans men who transitioned 30 years ago, before it was popular, and then you have a much larger and different population now. Many trans men do struggle with severe sex and genital dysphoria. I don't deny that, but some of the trans community now believes you can be trans and a female person can be "a man" without any dysphoria about their body at all.
I think it's stupid to pretend trans men don't pass. Many pass very well. Not all of them, but most do. Especially to the untrained eye. Yes, there are "tells" if you're familiar with how testosterone affects the female body, but the general public is not familiar. A deep voice in the male range is enough for most people to gender someone male.
I don't support name calling. Even if some of these people have fetishes, and I guess a small number do, we shouldn't call people creepy unless they're harming others. There seems be a minority of trans guys who believe they are entitled to sex with gay men, and that should be criticized, but it really pales in comparison to what happens from the opposite direction. Females are not socialized to be sexually entitled. I'm not convinced this is a huge social problem.

worried19 · 2020-09-13T05:16:36+00:00

I'd have to watch those movies to have a comment on them. I looked them up on Wikipedia, and the Pretty Baby one sounds disturbing. Can't tell about Blue Lagoon.

worried19 · 2020-09-13T04:30:19+00:00

I would fight against that label. I don't hate trans people and never have. I believe wholeheartedly in equal rights and protection from discrimination. Adults should be able to do what they want with their own bodies. My fight is with people who seek to deny biological sex, erase single-sex spaces, and transition minors.

worried19 · 2020-09-13T04:20:06+00:00

I'm not saying you need to watch it, just giving my take on the movie.

I'm not familiar with the other films you mentioned, so I don't know how they compare to this one.

worried19 · 2020-09-13T04:06:53+00:00

I saw the movie. The point of the film was to be horrified by the environment these kids are in. At least that was my take on it. Watching it was was an uncomfortable experience, which was what the director intended. To shove the premature sexualization of these young girls in the audience's face and get them to question a society that puts these girls in that position.

I viewed the movie as a condemnation of our society. These little girls mimic what they're told is adult female sexuality, but they have no idea what they're mimicking. Society's view of female sexuality is twisted and perverse, and to watch 11 year olds act it out points out how truly perverse and false it is. It's not just that it's premature, but completely pornified. This is no woman's natural sexuality.

The kid in the movie is going after what she's told is cool, no matter that it's false and dangerous. Her religion is patriarchal, but the wider world is just as patriarchal and oppressive, even though she's too young to realize it. There's no freedom in pornified sexualization. She can't escape patriarchy either way.

worried19 · 2020-09-13T02:19:21+00:00

Never mind. This is obviously a lost cause.

worried19 · 2020-09-13T02:17:17+00:00

Are you some kind of conspiracy theorist?

https://mymajicdc.com/3541071/r-kellys-daughter-comes-out-as-transgender-boy

worried19 · 2020-09-13T02:00:00+00:00

I have no clue what you're talking about. She was born female. Jaya Kelly, came out as trans in 2014 and started calling herself Jay, currently goes by Jaah. At least as of 2019.

Are you saying this child was born male?

worried19 · 2020-09-13T01:18:44+00:00

I'm completely confused. What cover up?

worried19 · 2020-09-12T20:36:54+00:00

Gotcha. Yeah, if you search for a person, it will show you what lists those people have been added to.

As I said, I don't know much about the site. I don't doubt if you wrote them about something they'd be pro-gender, but I truly doubt anything nefarious was orchestrated by the site in regards to this particular list.

worried19 · 2020-09-12T20:05:18+00:00

I don't know much about IMDB. I know they have user lists, but they also have editor lists, like the official ones where they tell you what's coming up on Netflix. I'm guessing it was probably some search algorithm that brought up the TERF one, since you had been searching for the word previously.

worried19 · 2020-09-12T19:18:56+00:00

Maybe it's different for different people. I don't have a YouTube account, and it came up for me right away. However, it is tagged as needing to be signed in to watch it.

worried19 · 2020-09-12T18:48:56+00:00

It did come up for me when I searched for "gender ideology" on YouTube. First result.

worried19 · 2020-09-12T03:50:14+00:00

Yeah, and this is how the newest generation is learning about gender. Even if their school isn't teaching them this stuff, they read these books that are telling them all about these preteen kids who are identifying as trans and non-binary and how they are really not their birth sex. That they are really the opposite sex or no sex at all.

There used to be an article listing these books. I wish I had saved it because it had a list of dozens and dozens of them. There was one really bad one called Jack Not Jackie. I did find a critical review of that one here:

https://lilymaynard.com/kool-aid-for-kiddies

But there are tons more just like it, for all ages, starting in preschool.

worried19 · 2020-09-12T03:42:38+00:00

The full version seems to be back up now.

worried19