QT: How is not creepy/predatory for people with male bodies aka men to demand access to women's single sex spaces where women are going to naked like locker rooms?

Genderbender · 2021-06-17T04:15:08+00:00

I am against sex-segregated spaces in general. That said, no one should be naked around a bunch of strangers to begin with just to change. But since that's the case, I don't think it matters who you're naked around, you are still naked around a bunch of strangers.

Genderbender · 2021-06-16T16:29:40+00:00

Not all are from the west. If you read through the list you will find people before the 20th century and who aren't from the west. I even provided an example of Emperor Ai of Han, Or do you think homosexuality is a modern, western invention like you do with transgenderism?

Genderbender · 2021-06-15T20:17:37+00:00

Antinous - Bithynian Greek youth and a favourite beloved of the Roman emperor Hadrian

Pietro Aretino - Italian author, playwright, poet, satirist and blackmailer, who wielded influence on contemporary art and politics

Louise Abbéma - French painter, sculptor, and designer of the Belle Époque

Emperor Ai of Han

Lord Byron - English poet and politician

Jacopo Bonfadio - Italian humanist and historian

Rosa Bonheur - French painted and sculptor

Francesco Calcagno - Franciscan friar famously executed for blasphemy and sodomy by the Venetian Inquisition

Mervyn Tuchet, 2nd Earl of Castlehaven - English nobleman convicted of rape and sodomy and subsequently executed

Petru Cercel - Voivode (Prince) of Wallachia from 1583 to 1585, son to ruler Pătrașcu cel Bun

Genderbender · 2021-06-15T17:50:34+00:00

If there was a sub on Reddit that stated women shouldn't be allowed to vote or women should only be homemakers, it would be banned too.

Genderbender · 2021-06-15T16:32:00+00:00

Leonardo da Vinci was likely gay, though he was celibate in his life. Barbara Gittings from the Stonewall riots was a cis lesbian and so was Sally Ride, America's first female astronaut.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gay,_lesbian_or_bisexual_people

https://www.advocate.com/world/2016/7/08/20-lgbt-people-who-changed-world#media-gallery-media-11

Genderbender · 2021-06-15T15:01:01+00:00

According to a PPRI study, 51% of men support requiring transgender individuals to use bathrooms corresponding to their assigned sex at birth, compared to four in ten 40% of women.

According to a poll, 59% of men support banning trans women in women's sports compared tp 46% of women. 29% of men oppose banning trans women in women's sports compared to 34% of women.

These are anonymous polls, so no one will be penalized for their opinions.

Genderbender · 2021-06-15T03:39:11+00:00

I am openly a cis woman on Reddit. I moderate a few subs and at times stated controversial opinions. One that stands out is r/protectandserve where I thought racial profiling was a bigger problem than they want to admit. There were a few times I was downvoted heavily for my opinions, like 50 downvotes, but never once was I kicked off of Reddit for my opinions or even banned from any sub for that matter. By the way, women are more likely to support the trans community than men.

Genderbender · 2021-06-14T03:05:21+00:00

Yes, but it's GC women who are being kicked off of websites, not just women.

Genderbender · 2021-06-14T01:38:12+00:00

Than say GC women. Trans-supportive women aren't being kicked off of websites, or women who hold opinions that have nothing to do with transgenderism. I'm on Reddit and share my opinions all the time, and I wasn't kicked off.

Genderbender · 2021-06-12T05:26:41+00:00

Ovarit is one of the very few places women can openly voice their criticism.

I think a more appropriate phrasing would be gender critical people. Gender critical men also get kicked off of internet sites like Reddit and many women (like myself) are supportive of the trans community.

Genderbender · 2021-06-10T18:16:25+00:00

Perhaps yes. Though there aren't many users commenting a contrary opinion.

Genderbender · 2021-06-09T16:09:46+00:00

I don't think hormones caused or contributed to him being aggressive.

Genderbender · 2021-06-09T16:08:02+00:00

Many trans men take testosterone without serious health problems.

Genderbender · 2021-06-09T01:27:28+00:00

So? Why do you constantly want us to answer for what people say on ovarit? You’ve been told we aren’t a hive mind monolith but still act as if we are.

GCs say they are not a hive mind but when there is a post for example like this where a trans man is stalking someone most of them jump in to say trans men should not have access to T. Granted, I know not all GCs are hivemind. Here is a comment from the thread:

This is obviously terrible but am I the only one confused as to why everyone is blaming testosterone for violent behaviour? Violence in TIFs if hardly common it is feels like baseless speculation to say HRT makes women violent. It also removes responsibility from violent men by suggesting that they have no choice but to be violent because its "in their nature" or because all men are somehow born violent. Violence is always a choice regardless of hormones.

That's exactly what I am thinking. Granted, the hive mind thing is probably just an Ovarit thing. s/GenderCritical called out Ovarit users when they wanted to ban all forms of plastic surgery. Some GCs say they don't like the tone on Ovarit. I do think Ovarit is mostly a hive mind, based on the threads I read there.

They take testosterone to induce desired cosmetic effects claiming the cosmetic effects ease their mental distress. It’s absolutely nothing like inhibiting the reputable of serotonin.

But we are all taking these medications for one very basic reason: to be mentally healthy.

Prescriptions handed out to every Jane, sally and Harriet are so far removed from a comprehension of what the prescription is doing to their body they might as well be on different planets.

This is why doctors should explain medications to their patients. Patients are responsible for understanding their condition, what the meds do and deciding if this is working for them.

Genderbender · 2021-06-09T00:47:21+00:00

Substance abuse is the abuse if a substance. Like using excess testosterone for cosmetic effects.

Taking prescribed doses of T for the purpose of transitioning is not "substance abuse".

Adults shouldn’t decide because adults are stupid, selfish, and don’t know shit about their own endocrine systems.

Again, T requires a prescription. Many trans men take T without experiencing significant health problems and are the majority are happy with the results. A few people detransition, which is why adults should think and decide if they really want this or not.

Look at the stats. We dont claim transwomen retain male criminality, we know it from statistics.

But if they are doing HRT they would have low testosterone. Which proves testosterone did not cause this man's violence.

You are as usual taking a comment and instead of accepting it’s talked about as a possible contributing factor, you’re acting like everyone on ovarit insists a drop of testosterone will turn any female into a raging monster.

But I think it's silly they decided T was a contributing factor. There are cis women who commit violent acts, as well as cis men. Why did this case stand out?

Genderbender · 2021-06-09T00:43:43+00:00

Yes it produces serotonin.

Genderbender · 2021-06-09T00:05:48+00:00

I know how these drugs work and yes they were prescribed in consultation with a doctor by doing actual tests and these drugs have helped me immensely. Without my ADHD meds I would have no job because I wouldn't be able to concentrate at all and without the SSRIs I would be laying in bed all day.

Genderbender · 2021-06-08T23:10:59+00:00

It’s totally different and exactly why I maintain that the average adult is not educated enough about their own biology or pharmacy to mess around with it.

This is why T requires a prescription. Those on the Ovarit thread are arguing trans men shouldn't get T at all.

Ssri discontinuation is a serious issue with measurable physical effects as well as psychological distress. It’s nothing like testosterone

But they take T to stay mentally healthy just like I take SSRIs to stay mentally healthy.

Genderbender · 2021-06-08T22:44:06+00:00

You are conflating two totally separate issues: 1) drugs that people abuse because they have mood-altering & other effects they like & which cause them to experience some kind of high, & are psychologically & physically addictive; and 2) drugs that have unwanted "side effects."

Yes, all drugs have "side effects." But not all drugs are addictive or subject to abuse.

Sure, but trans men taking T to physically transition is not abusing T.

Yes, that's true. But women normally have testosterone levels that are a teeny-tiny fraction of the male levels that trans-identified females try to reach & mimic by taking drugs. Moreover, endogenous T produced naturally by a girl or woman's ovaries & adrenals is not at all the same as the exogenous, artificial T mass-produced in factories by Big Pharma.

Sure, but this is what trans men take to pass and to be mentally healthy and not be dysphoric. It's no different than me taking my anti-depressants, ADHD and blood pressure meds.

Genderbender · 2021-06-08T20:43:12+00:00

All drugs have side effects. It's up to the person taking them to read the labels, use the drugs responsibly and inform their doctor of whatever side effects. I take a medication with a black box warning. Should I stop taking it just because some people abuse it? Taking prescribed doses of T to transition isn't abuse.

Genderbender · 2021-06-08T15:45:12+00:00

What about them? What does female violence have to do with anything?

This is male violence. Anyway, the reason they posted about him is because he's trans. If he was a cis man or a cis woman, this would not have been posted.

Do you think anyone is saying that testosterone is the causative factor in crime?

A few users are saying T made him violent, which I think is ridiculous. 1st, women already have some testosterone. 2. By their logic, men with low testosterone or trans women taking estrogen and testosterone blockers are naturally less violent. But they insist trans women have the same rate of crime as cis men. I wonder why since he has low testosterone. Maybe we should have a high testosterone defense for AFABs, like we have an insanity defense?

No, grown adults shouldn’t get access to any drugs they want just because they want them. The average person is not educated or intelligent enough to responsibly fuck with their endocrine system.

T already requires a prescription. I understand many GCs are against physically transitioning minors. But why shouldn't adults get to decide if they want to transition or not?

Pffft sure it’s not substance abuse because she says she’s a dude.

Substance abuse, according to Google, is overindulgence in or dependence on an addictive substance, especially alcohol or drugs.

Genderbender · 2021-06-08T04:49:57+00:00

What about women who don't have that much testosterone and are violent? What about trans women who take testosterone blockers? They are essentially arguing access to T shouldn't be this easy. Shouldn't grown adults get to decide what to do with their bodies?

He isn't "abusing" testosterone. He's taking it for transition. Though his crimes are inexcusable.

Genderbender · 2021-06-08T04:19:18+00:00

I will in the morning.

Genderbender · 2021-06-07T17:23:12+00:00

Anyone who has a female gender identity.

Genderbender · 2021-06-02T22:24:22+00:00

It is insane how they are ignoring all the sexism and patriarchy and saying "it was a choice". And they never wondering - why all the "trans" of the past are transmen, and that "third genders" in other cultures are always gay or infertile men.

Eleanor Rykener, Lucy Hicks Anderson, Sir Lady Java, Chevalier d’Eon, Marja-Sisko Aalto, Rebecca Allison, Robina Asti and Sister Mary Elizabeth Clark are all trans women.

They ignore that woman was not allowed by law to work in science or be surgeon or live open public life, so of course some women would pretend to be a man, but not because "they feel as men", no - because they want to be a human being with full rights.

I am fully aware that women were barred from many professions in the past. Heck, women are still de facto barred from certain professions, like sanitation, mechanics, IT, especially WOC. However, some people will still be trans, even if we had equal rights and sexism doesn't exist.

I pretended to be a man to get a job in engineering/IT, because when I was sending resume with female name, I was instantly dismissed, few times I was laughed out, yet when I started presenting with male name - I was called to personal meetings by HR almost always. Am I transman now too? It is stupid.

I am sorry that happened to you and no you are not a trans man. This should not be happening.

And then those same people are saying that "it is libfems who fought for all the achievements have"

All feminists fought for equal rights for women.

2nd wave, suffragettes and so on were "libfems" too, while those women held almost opposite beliefs to libfems and were calling oppression sex based and were saying that oppression is based on sex class

There were libfems and radfems back then. You can't generalize every feminist from that time.

when libfems are focusing on individualism and choice.

Liberal feminism focuses on achieving gender equality through political and legal reform. For instance, if black and indigenous students receive more school suspensions than white students for similar offenses, we would push for a law requiring public schools to collect suspension data by race and actively address those disparities, while also requiring schools to consider other options before suspension. If women are getting sexually harassed at work, we push for laws requiring employers to take sexual harassment seriously. Radical feminism calls for a radical reordering of society in which male supremacy is eliminated in all social and economic contexts, while recognizing that women's experiences are also affected by other social divisions such as in race, class, and sexual orientation. Radical feminism aims to dismantle patriarchy rather than making adjustments to the system through legal changes.

Genderbender · 2021-06-02T21:48:00+00:00

Missexing someone is confusing and inaccurate. I don't trust sources that call men "she" and women "he".

I don't either, which is why I don't trust womenarehuman.com.

It would be a lot harder to destroy women's sports and spaces if media sources accurately sexed people in their articles.

But in this case we're using he for someone born female, and according to GCs men's spaces don't need protection.

Genderbender · 2021-06-02T21:39:38+00:00

J.K. Rowling is an example of specific person who most likely does not want her case to be used as an example by those who call her TERF but trans activists use her as an example of "bigot" anyway. People will be used as examples by the opposing side, that's just how it is.

J.K. Rowling is a public figure, just like Caitlyn Jenner and Elliot Page. Plus, she chose to make her statements public.

To misgender the speaker needs to claim a person has a gender identity the person doesn't have, which requires the speaker to use gender identity based definitions for the words involved in the supposed misgendering. This makes it very unlikely that any misgendering happened as would require the speaker to be a genderist, aka not gender critical.

You don't have to be a "genderist" to misgender someone.

There is no moral duty to lie about trans people just because they like being lied about.

It's polite and the right thing to do.

Genderbender · 2021-06-02T13:00:44+00:00

Look at what he wrote:

But when trans women start living their lives in full view of the public, they go from the top of the totem pole to the very bottom. Not only are they being mistreated for being trans, they encounter the misogynistic abuse that cis women have dealt with their entire lives. To then be attacked by other women who claim to be feminists – as they have been in the media and real life for some time – must be soul destroying.

Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (TERFs) are one of the best groups at pretending trans men don’t exist, lest it shatters their delusion that all trans people just want access to women-only spaces so we can attack them.

Genderbender · 2021-06-02T02:27:22+00:00

You can talk about trans people, but that site is using an example of a specific person who most likely does not want his case to be used as an example by transphobes, and has the same opinion on "TERFs" as r/gendercynical. At the very least they could have been respectful by using he and Mr.

Genderbender · 2021-06-02T02:10:46+00:00

IMHO, it's arrogant and preposterous for people like this "trans man" to expect that HCFs and the intake nurses who work in ERs & other HCFs should suddenly adopt new entirely standards and protocols to placate a population that only recently has emerged and which has done nothing to persuade the medical profession or wider public of why we have to adopt new ways.

Here are a list trans people from the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries. Eleanor Rykener, Alan L. Hart, Lucy Hicks Anderson, Amelio Robles Ávila, Sir Lady Java, Willmer ‘Little Ax” Broadnax, Chevalier d’Eon, Harry Allen, Michael Dillon and Charley Parkhurst. Trans people have not "recently emerged". We are persuading the wider public. You just disagree on how to go about it.

Also, if this "trans man" were asked to state her sex, who's to say that she would have responded honestly?

It's he and yes trans people do tell doctors their birth sex.

Genderbender · 2021-06-02T02:06:50+00:00

Misgendering is using terms and pronouns that person said they do not prefer. Was it so hard for them to type he, him, his, and Mr.?

Genderbender · 2021-06-02T01:32:50+00:00

Here are articles by trans men from other sites.

J.K. Rowling and the Echo Chamber of TERFs - Slate

Trabnsphobes And Trans Men - Jay Hulme

Why are trans men always left out of the conversation? - Huck Magazine

Genderbender · 2021-06-02T01:23:37+00:00

In that case I would not use a conservative woman as an example for an article on voting rights or abortion rights.

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T23:49:52+00:00

Because I don’t consider liberal “feminism” even slightly feminist. As a movement it panders to men and porn while doing nothing to advance or protect the rights of women.

Liberal feminists fought for and continue to fight for OTC birth control, ending sexual harassment and domestic violence, the prosecution of rape, equal pay, universal healthcare, Black Lives Matter, gay marriage, against ableism, classism and a host of other issues. All those things help me as a woman. We are critical of the mainstream porn induatry, but not every form of sexual entertainment. Some feminists, while also fighting issues not specifically related to women, do not consider these issues "feminist". We all have different definitions of "feminism" and there are different branches of feminism. Some branches of feminism do not see gender critical feminism as actual feminism. My feminism is social justice feminism. I support all causes for every marginalized group, vote, sign petitions and look at my own privileges and oppressions and how different identities intersect.

Can we see how you asked every American and Canadian what they think, how you know they were honest, and the exact figures you got from this questioning?

My state has various laws to protect transgender people. Its illegal to harass someone for using a bathroom that matches their gender identity. This wouldn't be possible without majority support.

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T21:50:45+00:00

I'm not saying the story is made up. I'm saying GC sites like womenarehuman.com have no business pretending to advocate for trans men. Trans men have said over and over again they do not want gender critical activism.

Take a look at r/FTM. There are 20+ threads complaining about "TERFs". There are also many articles on other sites written by trans men complaining about "TERFs" and mind you GCs consider TERF a slur. So that means they don't want your activism. In contrast I found only ONE thread on r/FTM complaining about trans men, yet GCs keep saying trans women talk over trans men. This is obviously a GC concern more than trans men's concern.

To be an ally to a group, you have to listen to actual members of that group, not impose your own ideas. Imagine a white self-proclaimed ally saying "well, that interaction wasn't really racist" when multiple POC say otherwise? Besides the blatant misgendering, trans men are a marginalized community and its rude and gross to speak over people who made it clear they don't want you to speak for them.

Trans men are fighting for better healthcare. Just yesterday there was a thread on r/FTM titled I hate when I feel like there’s something wrong with my reproductive stuff and I try to see what the problem is and how to fix it but everything is labeled as “WOMEN” “GIRL” and “FEMALE.”. I know this is contradictory to what GCs want, as they call for eliminating the terms women and girls for health issues traditionally considered "female" But GCs and trans men have opposite agendas, which is why GCs should never speak for trans men and trans men should never speak for GC. GCs do their activism. Trans men and their allies do their activism.

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T19:19:46+00:00

The problem is that doctors failed to ask for his birth sex, not him presenting as a man. Also, I don't trust sources that purposefully misgender trans people. Many trans people are fighting for better health care and we need to join the fight by listening to trans men.

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T17:56:16+00:00

You say this a lot. Like, you always volunteer this information, unprompted. The lady doth protest too much methinks.

This is my way of explaining gender identity and dysphoria and it's true.

I don't know anyone who would insist that if they had to live as the opposite sex they'd have crippling dysphoria & make any & every attempt to change their sex.

Well now you know someone who does. Also, many trans people themselves say they have crippling dysphoria.

You are not trans, like most of us here, so it's not like you have a unique insight.

A lot of us on this sub are also not trans.

I personally can safely say, if I woke up tomorrow & I was female I'd hate it, but I'd just deal with it. I wouldn't self-identify as a man & use a masculine name & pronouns. I wouldn't take hormones that would make me go bald & grow a beard nor would I amputate my breasts.

That's you. Also, cis men with gynecomastia have surgery to remove their large breasts. Do you call that ?amputation

The penis, the height & not having to be female, are the only things worthwhile about being male anyway, but transition can't give you any of those things.

The only thing you can't change via transition is your height. Trans men can have a penis via SRS.

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T16:23:25+00:00

Women said they don't need to vote and that being a stay-at-home wife obedient to her husband is "empowering" and that being beaten by their husbands isn't wrong. Women saying misogynistic things and trying to suck up to the patriarchy doesn't discredit feminism one bit. We've already been through this.

They're not saying they shouldn't have the right to vote. They're saying they don't want to be classed with you. I don't class GC women women with trans men (I said GC women, not women), because they don't want to be classed with trans women and in turn I don't think it's fair to class trans men with women if they don't want to be classed. They have their own issues and needs.

Uuuh, enforcing a belief in gendersouls, removing women's protections and advancements in women's rights, telling women they're privileged for being female and gaslighting them in regards to their oppression IS forcing a narrative onto us, or rather women in general. You can't both advocate the removal of rights that a disenfranchised group has fought for, advocate for a completely unfounded regressive worldview with gendersouls to which women's rights need to be sacrificed AND claim that you're not being in any way political.

We're not saying you're privileged for being female. We're saying you're privileged for being cis. Trans men at some point lived presenting as female and know some female struggles, yet they themselves are a marginalized group separate from women.

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T16:19:07+00:00

Because women do not abuse men like vice versa, and no amount of your brainless mantra parroting can change that. Men simply do not live in fear of women harming them. Now, are you going to lie through your teeth some more that they do or are you going to conveniently ignore this as usual when you get caught in your lie?

Nearly 3 in 10 women (29%) and 1 in 10 men (10%) in the US have experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by a partner and reported it having a related impact on their functioning.

https://www.thehotline.org/stakeholders/domestic-violence-statistics/

From 2010 to 2012, scholars of domestic violence from the U.S., Canada and the U.K. assembled The Partner Abuse State of Knowledge, a research database covering 1700 peer-reviewed studies, the largest of its kind. Among its findings:

More women (23%) than men (19.3%) have been assaulted at least once in their lifetime.

Rates of female-perpetrated violence are higher than male-perpetrated (28.3% vs. 21.6%).

Male and female IPV are perpetrated from similar motives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men#:~:text=More%20women%20(23%25)%20than,21.6%25).

First, LOL at "abuse of men" being targeted towards a woman.

This was a man being abused. He presented as a man and the university saw him as a man.

Third, women do not present a physical threat to the man in most cases. This is due to simple physical differences in strength between the sexes. Now, women might present a threat to men with the help of a weapon (but even that is already an extreme requirement - it's much harder to subjugate someone when you have to hold a weapon and ensure you can use it at all times, vs when you can do it through sheer strength alone), but, as it turns out, women simply do not want to do this. Women do not harbour sadistic, fetishistic, violent ideas about men that tie into widespread supremacist ideas on their own gender. They simply don't. No, you lying through your teeth about this isn't going to change reality. These concepts (male strength compared to women, male supremacy being tied to misogyny and male violence, male propensity to escalate to alarming and dangerous behaviour) have been well established and are also one of those things obvious just from using your fucking eyes.

But do you understand that even within biological sexes, strength can vary among people? My sister is stronger than some of our male family members.

and I'm talking actual abuse, not just flinging insults).

I'm talking about actual abuse.

Fourth, women are constantly portrayed as "crazy bitches" if they don't keep quiet and bend over backwards to accommodate others to their own detriment. Hence why feminists (mostly female) bend over backwards to accommodate men, while pretty much every male-dominated community does nothing but complain about women doing...anything, really.

I don't bend over backwards to anyone. On this sub, do you see me bending over backwards to others. I have never been called a crazy bitch for that.

Because they don't, for reasons that have been explained to you.

This is exactly why GCs got kicked off of reddit. Before you say "ReDdIt HaTeS wOmEn", I am openly a woman on reddit and moderate a few subs (unrelated to feminism), and I have not been kicked off.

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T16:01:21+00:00

I am certain. If I was born male, I would transition via hormones and surgery, because being male would cause me dysphoria. Yes, gender identity is somewhat of a spiritual essence, and I am in essence, a female. I'm lucky I was born female, so I don't need to transition.

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T14:26:27+00:00

Gender identity is the personal conception of oneself as male, female, both or neither. So it's basically how you perceive yourself? I see myself as female, and would see myself as female regardless of my birth sex.

Genderbender · 2021-06-01T14:23:05+00:00

"Most of us" is most Americans and Canadians.

Why is “feminist” in quotes?

Genderbender · 2021-05-31T03:08:39+00:00

Ok, then whatever terms trans men prefer for their genitals.

Genderbender · 2021-05-30T15:53:05+00:00

What happened to her is atrocious. Glad she won the lawsuit. Pidgeon Pagonis is an intersex enby also experienced non-consensual genital surgery.

HI I'M INTERSEX - PT 2

5 Ways You Can End Intersex Surgery - YouTube

Genderbender · 2021-05-29T15:09:34+00:00

Ignorance. The word for a non-homosexual transsexual male is autogynaephile. You don't get to decide how the typology works. Transbians are, by virtue of being transbians, autogynaephiles. Clear?

That's not what the DSM-V says, and you preach the DSM-V. You alone don't get to decide how typology works either, the majority of society does. Most of us agreed trans women are women. We have laws protecting trans people, like the right to use restrooms that match your gender identity. This wouldn't be possible without majority agreement.

Belief has nothing to do with it. The body that created GD no longer "believes in it", so why should anyone else?

We believe in gender dysphoria 100%. It's you that doesn't.

So I have "an issue with homosexuality" because I disagree with gay women who are both pro conversion therapy (i.e. transitioning of gay kids) & pro-autogynaephiles being legally recognised as adult human females?

Conversion therapy is literally using aversive conditioning techniques to change someone's sexual orientation. Conversion therapy is not someone voluntarily choosing to transition. What you just said is offensive to actual victims of conversion therapy, who had to endure years and years of trauma and PTSD.

A flawed take. Fox News always hires black people to repeat racist rhetoric for people like you, I suppose. What are the gay & female versions of an Uncle Tom?

The people I mentioned were not paid for their pro-trans speeches. Granted, saying anti-trans speech will get you ostracized, but in that case they had the option not to say anything at all. But all of the LGB people I know spoke in support of trans people. Calling someone an Uncle Tom, handmaiden or a traitor is gross and will earn you less respect than you already have.

We'll never know if they were stealth homosexuals or not. Please quit posting these American mainstream news outlets. Wikipedia is the lowest I'm willing to go regarding secondary sources.

You just don't want to hear the truth.

The ones that are converted via transition do. There are 3 "trans" groups, generally: the homosexuals, the autogynaephiles & the trenders (a form of conversion therapy, a paraphilia & a teen sub-culture, respectively). One group's existence does not undermine another's, comprendé?

You just made this up.

Genderbender · 2021-05-29T03:50:33+00:00

An autogynaephile is a non-homosexual transsexual. The link has a section on sexual orientation distribution. The homosexual ones are in the minority, thereby proving that the majority are autogynaephiles. I should have realised you'd need that explained to you. You probably haven't got a clue about the typology.

An autogynephile is a man who sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a female. The majority of trans women, even trans lesbians, are not autogynephiles.

Without the DSM the term & concept of "gender dysphoria" wouldn't exist. Are you saying you would have invented it?

You clearly don't believe in gender dysphoria, so.

You literally just made that up. You have unresolved issues regarding homosexuality. You need to look into that.

I think you do. I have friends and acquaintances who are homosexual and bisexual. All of them support the trans community. One girl I went to high school with is a lesbian, and she wrote on FB she won't vote for Trump because he's a racist, homophobe and transphobe and said "transgenders can’t be in a lot of fucking places" which was part of the comment. I think you're the one that has issues regarding homosexuality, because the homosexual people I know are supportive of trans people.

Really? When? I didn't see any evidence of that. How do you know they weren't stealth homosexuals? It's not far-fetched seeing as homosexuality was illegal at that time.

Yes, homosexuality was illegal at the time, but 1. That does not mean transgender people did not exist 2. Many gays and lesbians did not transition at the time. In a retirement home in Brooklyn, there was an inaugural exhibition featuring 12 LGBT seniors, where they described what's it like living in a time when being themselves were illegal. None of them are trans.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/03/08/tallying-the-lost-years-for-lgbt-seniors

Nope. They're lesbians, homophobe.

Transtrenders are specifically the het girls. Homosexuals who go through conversion therapy via transition aren't "proof to the contrary".

Cis lesbians don't change their names to male ones, take T to appear male, request people use he/him pronouns for them or pursue sex reassignment surgery. Only trans people do those things.

Genderbender · 2021-05-28T12:50:48+00:00

Yep: https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS%20Full%20Report%20-%20FINAL%201.6.17.pdf

Your own link doesn't mention autogynephilia or autoandrophilia.

It's where your belief in gender dysphoria stems from.

I would believe in gender dysphoria even without the DSM.

A homosexual is someone who is attracted to the same sex. So now it was their gender that was "assigned at birth", no longer their sex? Or are sex & gender the same thing now? "A transgender"? "Transgender" is an adjective. I've never seen such hypocritical pedantry.

A homosexual is soneone who is attracted to people of mainly the same sex characteristics as their own.

Then we agree that they never used to exist until very recently.

I keep pointing out trans men in history yet you still claim trans men only existed recently.

Transing dead people is not the least bit convincing. It's called SELF-identification for a reason. You're breaking your own rules by making presumptions about them.

All the trans people I listed self-identified as trans.

I know you're obsessed with erasing sexual orientation, but Elliot Page, Buck Angel & Luke Anderson are all homosexuals.

Nope. They're straight.

How many times have I told you that the transtrenders are the het girl demographic? You know, the demographic covered by Lisa Littman's studies & Abigail Shrier's book. Why didn't you name Demi Lovato? Oh right, I was forgetting the gender police always ironically discriminate against non-binary people.

When you keep being presented with proof to the contrary, you still claim transgenders are mostly the het teenage girl demographic of the 21st century. Yes, Demi Lovato also identifies as non-binary and she's 28.

Genderbender · 2021-05-27T17:57:56+00:00

The majority of male transsexuals are autogynaephiles (in the West).

Nope.

It's not just "Blanchardian", since the term can be found in the trans bible: the DSM-V. So there is a consensus on the typology.

The DSM-V is not a trans bible.

Homosexuals have a different name in every culture. You view them as women for some reason, which is more than merely insulting to both women & gay men, since any threat to their definitions threaten their rights. "Transsexual" is just the term that groups autogynaephiles & homosexuals with a feminine gender-role preference together.

A homosexual is someone who is attracted to the same gender. A transsexual, or transgender is someone who identifies with a gender that is different from the one they were assigned at birth. Those are different terms.

Those women just wanted the freedom to do the kinds of things men could. They are basically in disguise.

Trans men are not "women in disguise".

So first narcissist was a "transphobic slur", now it's just misused term. So they are using a term you don't find 100% accurate. And?

Most of the time it is inaccurate.

Transtrenderism is a trend within the demographic that has a weakness for such things: teen girls. This is a trend as it is limited to a particular time & place.

Here are a list trans people from the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries. Eleanor Rykener, Alan L. Hart, Lucy Hicks Anderson, Amelio Robles Ávila, Sir Lady Java, Willmer ‘Little Ax” Broadnax, Chevalier d’Eon, Harry Allen, Michael Dillon and Charley Parkhurst.

Even today, people continue to transition as adults. Elliot Page is in his 30s and recently came out. Buck Angel is in his 50s and still identifies as a man. Luke Anderson, the Big Brother winner was born in South Africa, is 40 and a trans man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transgender_people

Genderbender · 2021-05-27T16:25:02+00:00

I think sometimes the social model is better though instead of the medical model, especially in education and other non-medical settings. For me though I would never cure my learning disability, though I would cure other things I have. What was more disabling was discrimination in the school.

We should not replace the term disability. I and many of us in our community loathe the term special needs and handi-capable. I know the non-disabled community likes the term special needs, but to us, it's stigmatizing and othering. Due to this stigma I felt embarrassed for being disabled during my teenage years. These terms just another euphemism for disability. People are afraid of using words like disability, disabled, autistic, etc. so they invent euphemisms like special needs and handi-capable or even people first language. People first language (for those who don't know) is putting the person before the disability, i.e. saying "person with a disability" instead of "disabled person" saying "person with autism" instead of "autistic person." Some people in our community prefer it and that's OK, but many do not. Yet abled people who are often parents of disabled kids or work with disabled people insist it's the polite term and saying "autistic" is rude, even though actual autistic people don't think so and many feel autism is part of their identity. Some people are even told how to identify themselves, that they should not call themselves disabled or blind or whatever. Many people also want to emphasize someone is a person before their disability. It's almost as if being disabled and being a person is mutually exclusive. I corrected someone online for using the term handi-capable for a character. I simply said most disabled people don't the term and to use disabled instead, and that person thanked me. I wish we would stop being afraid to use the term disability and stop euphemizing it. Parents, teachers and professionals should not be afraid to tell a child they're disabled, or talk about disability with children. It's OK to use the words disability and disabled.

On another note, denying someone medical treatment is ableist. Without my SSRI, I would be lying in bed all day. Yet there are people who will insist you shouldn't take anti-depressants or any medication because it's big pharma. I think the term big pharma should apply to pharmaceutical companies because I have criticisms for them, but not the people who need these medications to function. Some people think the profession of psychiatry should be eliminated, which is ableist, because many people would suffer without psychiatry or access to medical treatment in general.

Genderbender · 2021-05-27T15:04:34+00:00

Your only defence is to be deliberately obtuse. A heterosexual man who identifies as a woman is by definition an autogynaephile. People who call the female ones transsexuals are trying to be inclusive.

Most trans people are not autogynephilic and autoandrophilic, unless you're a die-hard Blanchardian.

A transsexual, outside the paraphilia-ridden West, is a gay man.

It's insulting to call gay men transsexual. Gay men are gay men.

Women are capable of doing all the same things men are capable of.

I never said they weren't.

A woman "living as a man" just means her role has changed to a masculine one.

I like things that are considered stereotypically male (i.e. handy-work). Am I "living as a man" now?

No, GCs don't misuse the word 'narcissist'. Have you ever listed to one of those male pretend-women? It's like, are you talking to me, or your reflection?

I have listened to actual trans women. Do you know what criteria for NPD is? Actual narcissists are very charming, and they use that charm to victimize others. They have a grandiose sense of self-importance and are preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. Someone who just has an awful and selfish personality is not a narcissist. Paolo Macchiarini is an example of a narcissist. He's very charming, can't take criticism, needs attention and admiration, exaggerates his achievements and talents and is arrogant.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

Transtrenderism describes a teenage sub-culture fuelled by trans identities, instead of star signs, or whatever. Statistical outliers are insignificant when talking about trends.

Trans isn't a trend because by definition trends don't last long. If transgenderism was a trend, we wouldn't need gender critical.

Genderbender · 2021-05-27T13:51:29+00:00

I think you might be confusing the base payment amount for those in the US who get federal disability payments known as Supplemental Security Income (SSI) and the payments that go to adults with a history of working who are eligible for Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI).

I was specifically referring to SSI. SSI is for people with no work history and less than 2K. SSDI is for people who worked. Still, it doesn't cover rent and my state at one point cut Section 8 programs, but they're brought back, but there's a huge waitlist.

Genderbender · 2021-05-27T13:02:09+00:00

I will have sex with a post-op trans man, but I may be attracted to a pre-op passing trans man.

Genderbender · 2021-05-27T00:37:27+00:00

They are only men to genderists. To the rest of us they are homophobic women.

Most of us are genderists.

If no, why do you question us as if we’re intellectually malfunctioning and cannot think anything that isn’t part of gender critical feminism?

Why is this the only men's issue to focus on? Why not focus on other men's issues?

Genderbender · 2021-05-27T00:14:10+00:00

Because that’s one issue that’s not caused by other men, it’s one that’s caused by genderist bullshit like saying homosexual men are bigoted oppressors for not being attracted to the vulva.

It is caused by other men since trans men are men. Even this response shows GCs are ainly about fighting transgenderism.

Answer me. Do you think we’re a bunch of simpletons who can only think about one thing?

No.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T23:52:02+00:00

So we shouldn’t have empathy but we should fight to protect men from other men. Or are we banned from caring about things that aren’t feminism? You realise we are all multi faceted people capable of thinking about more than one thing, right? Do you think we’re a bunch of simpletons who can’t have more than one thought train?

But why is the only men's "issue" GCs seem to care about is trans men "infiltrating" men's spaces, but they don't other men's issues?

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T23:04:26+00:00

Then trans men "infiltrating" men's spaces is also not a women's issue or a conceen for feminism.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T22:31:10+00:00

So, do you think Jane and Helen are still heterosexual and homosexual respectively after their partners' coming out?

Yes.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T22:25:10+00:00

I am attracted to pre op trans men if they have transitioned, and I am willing to do sexual things that don't involve their vagina. They would have to be post of for me to do something with their genitals.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T21:56:32+00:00

There is a difference between a disability and a condition. I was classed as having a "specific learning disability" in school, yet most of my struggles were not due to my LD, but due to the school system discriminating against me. I was in a self-contained class FULL TIME until high school, even though my behavior wasn't disruptive. Then in high school, when I was in general ed, I had no say in my IEP. The IEP meeting at the end of sophomore was full of a bunch of adults talking about me without involving me in the conversation. They decided next year they will work on "a better understanding of social cues" without asking me if that's what I wanted to work on. Would people like it if a bunch of professionals talked about them without involving them in the conversation. I didn't write my IEP goals, they did.

I fully agree with the social model, as do many other disabled people. Disability is a result of interaction with society. For instance, if you're in a wheelchair, there will be many places not accessible to you. If you're autistic, you don't interact the way the neuro-majority interact. That's what disability is. Disability doesn't mean not healthy and it doesn't necessarily mean people will become healthy if treated better. Though the way society treats disabled people is abysmal.

For instance, a lot of disabled people have medical conditions and use healthcare but don't have access to it. I used to have a painful and rather embarrassing condition that barred me from working and not many doctors treat. The only doctors that treated it were not in our network, and I was incredibly lucky my parents paid for the treatment so I could work. If we had universal health care, I could have just made an appointment without worrying about payments. And don't even get me started on insulin prices. Many states have work requirements for Medicaid, so that means people have to work to get treatment for a condition that makes them unable to work. A paradox!

I am fortunate enough to be able to work. Yet some people just can't work. SSI pays $771 per month for an zaindividual, and that doesn't even cover rent. Most non-working people who I know living on their own had their parents pay for their home. One of my disabed friends was stuck with abusive parents because she couldn't afford to move out.

The healthcare thing is specific to the US as every other developed country has universal health care. Though other countries also segregate disabled children in schools. In France kids often don't get help for ADHD. China stigmatizes autism. Granted these things happen in the US as well.

I would not cure my LD as the real problem for me was the way society treated me and not my LD itself. I fully support the social model.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T17:55:30+00:00

Wait, you only think some hijra & kathoey are transsexuals? Transsexual is a type of gay man, not a type of woman. There is no evidence to the contrary.

Transsexual can describe both women and men. Trans women who are attracted to men would by definition be straight women, and if they are attracted to other women they are lesbians. Trans men who are attracted to women are straight, and those who are attracted to other men they are gay men.

White-passing black people who "live as white people" aren't "living as white people" then? If you're gay, but you're "living as straight" are you straight? A woman living as a man is a woman living as a man, not an adult human male. Masculinity & femininity ae constructs, not "man" & "woman".

Trans men aren't women, so they would be men living as men not women living as men.

A regular-ass insult is not a "transphobic slur", since anyone can be a narcissist. Playing dumb makes you look stupid.

But GCs misuse the term narcissist for at least 75% of the trans population. Learn the criteria for NPD before throwing around that term.

Sex doesn't change. It started before birth & continues after birth & continues even beyond death. So the term "birth sex" is meaningless. What's the difference between a person's sex & their "birth sex"? What's Caitlyn Jenner's sex? Male. What's his "birth sex"? Male. What's the point of the "birth" part?

Birth sex is a more clearer term. Some sex characteristics (not all though) can be altered.

Het teenagers have made it into one, hence 2% of high-schoolers identifying as trans nowadays. While there don't seem to be any older women doing it.

Elliot Page and Buck Angel don't exist then?

Neither does the icd-11.

I don't care about the icd-11.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T16:03:19+00:00

People should be free to say whatever they want in their private lives. Workplaces should not be allowed to compel their employees speech outside of working hours.

I agree for the most part. I just think we shouldn't treat different forms of hate speech differently. If employers are allowed to fire people for racist and sexist speech, why should transphobic speech be treated different? Though yes people should be allowed to use hate speech without getting fired unless their job directly deals with people's welfare. If a judge goes on a racist rant on Facebook, you might wonder if he's giving higher sentences to black and brown defendants for the same crime. Granted, there should be oversight of these things anyway, like an independent commission making sure everyone gets a fair sentence and removing judges from the bench who don't practice this

That is insane. I wouldn't dream of trying to get a forced birther fired. I vehemently disagree with them, but I think they have just as much a right to earn an honest living as I do unmolested by braying mobs of zealots.

On an unrelated note, thank you for using the term forced birther. For anti-abortionists I use the term pro-birth instead of pro-life for anti-abortionists. If they really were about life, these same people would also be advocating for the best health care, for livable wages, for OTC birth control so you wouldn't need an abortion, for police reform, increasing the quality of education, and reducing poverty. But they're not. They just want the kid born. But when the kid is born, these same people complain about single mothers, mothers on welfare because you're always supposed to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and no matter what situation you find yourself in it's entirely your fault. The pro-birth movement was never about life. It's about misogyny and shaming women for their choices.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T15:48:29+00:00

You mean the post that is accurate, but is "manhating" because it doesn't lie and gaslight that women are the problem and that the matriarchy is a thing?

Men are less likely to be taken seriously when they are abused. Trystan Cotton is a black trans man and a professor of gender studies at California State University Stanislaus. Pre-transition he worked at another university and was harassed by males. The university reacted immediately, even sending a police escort with him to and from campus. After transition he worked at this university and was harassed at this university by a female student he was mentoring, and his adviser and the dean — both women — laughed it off. Why the difference in responses? Is it because he's a big scary black man who can't be abused by women?

Yet GCs say women don't abuse men. Here is a comment from the old GC sub documented on r/gendercynical.

Get it through your heads. Women. Don't. Abuse. Men. PERIOD. Women don't have physical power over men. Women are not threatening to men. Women are not a danger to men. Women do not have power over men or advantages over men.

That comment was upvoted by many GCs. The person who wrote the next comment was downvoted and their comment was removed by the mods.

This is bullshit. How fucking dare you. Women have abused men. No where near the numbers that MRAs claim, that is true. But my mother tried to kill my father and her children because she didn't want us anymore. I have friends who had abusive mothers, who were also abusive to their husbands. And no, our fathers were not abusive. Just because they couldn't match men in physical strength didn't mean that they couldn't cause hurt.

Here is a thread on Ovarit titled "Abuse is not "just female related" - it happens vice verse all the time, even if it's not that visual but it hurts even more." Sure, buddy, whatever you say.. They linked to a reddit post where a man says there should be more films and shows about women abusing men. Ovarit mocked the OP, even saying "men actually have the expectation of being treated well" when that's not always the case, like in Trystan Cotton's case.

Here is an article on Feminist Current titled This thing about male victims on Feminist Current making up false statistics on women abusing men.

To be clear, not all GCs think this way, but from what they write online I get the impression that the majority of them think this way.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T15:33:32+00:00

But I never see GCs speak out about other men's issues, like men not being taken seriously when they're abused or BPD in men. This is the only men's "issue" they are in solidarity with men.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T15:27:24+00:00

Presentism. Transgender as a concept describing a type of woman rather than a type of man is a modern, Western trend.

Transgender can both describe men and women. There are trans men and there are trans women.

It wasn't that long ago we were describing all the people in various cultures, who we now call "women", as gay men. The hijra in India & the kathoey in Thailand are literally homosexuals.

And some are transsexuals and that's OK.

Oh, & women living as men are not transgender. If a woman lives as a man, does that make her a man?

Then they're not living as men then.

You failed to list a single slur. Again an insult is not the same as a slur. 'Narcissist' is not the same as the n-word. Didn't know that needed explaining.

A slur, according to Merriam-Websiter is an insulting or disparaging remark or innuendo : aspersion..

Sexist double-standard. Sex is male & female. Gender is masculine & feminine. Quit being complicit in the trans movement's appropriation of sex terms to refer to social constructs.

I personally don't mind the term male and female to be used for identities. I also don't mind them being used in a biological sense when we talk about medicine and biology.

No one said that people with DSDs invented the term, dumbass. Are you claiming trans people invented it? lol try finding evidence of that. Sex is only assigned in the case of intersex people.

Yes but we use the term "assigned sex at birth" for birth sex.

Not every girl wanted to be an emo either. It's a teenage subculture.

Being trans is not a subculture.

Anyone with a healthy male body would just live with it. They wouldn't try to transition, unless they were suffering from some sort of trauma, self-hatred, or some other mental issue, hence why the vast majority desist. They grow out of it. You would too.

This is proof that GCs don't believe in dysphoria.

lol you don't even know the difference between desistance & detransition.

To my understanding, detransitioning is to reverse medical transition while desisting is to stop identifying as trans. All desisters are detransitioners but not all detransitioners are desisters. I cited a source that detransition is rare.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T14:42:40+00:00

I thought it was great and a well balanced report.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T14:42:13+00:00

That's not bisexuality. I'm straight. I personally know a trans woman who I was attracted to pre transition, even when she came out as trans. When she starting transitioning, even though she didn't pass as a cis woman, she appeared to feminized for me to be attracted to her. I'm not attracted to women because I'm straight. I am attracted to passing trans men like Buck Angel.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T14:41:23+00:00

Yes I understand what allyship is. Also, members of the marginalized group get to decide if you're an ally to them, not you. This includes trans men.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T14:36:13+00:00

Trans men are not women and do not wish to be classed with women. Plus, GCs shouldn't be forcing narratives on trans men, just like trans men don't force narratives on them.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T13:23:33+00:00

I believe sexuality is based on gender presentation, not gender identity. Some trans men are gay, but there was a post on r/FTM to pre-transition gay men asking who they date, because they know gay men will not be attracted to them pre-transition. Likewise, I will not date a female-presenting trans women, but I would date a passing trans man, just like I would date a cis man but not a cis woman, because I'm straight.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T01:02:38+00:00

People are often not prosecuted at all, let alone to the full extent of the law. Saying it will happen is untrue. Saying something untrue is true can be considered gaslighting by all means.

Gaslighting is manipulating someone by psychological means into questioning their own sanity. By your logic, every white lie can be considered gaslighting.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T01:00:46+00:00

Gender is a social construct. Sexes & sexual orientations have biological underpinnings & can be measured.

I agree.

Transgender people never used to exist even as a concept (in the modern trans movement sense of a "woman trapped in a man's body") & don't exist in other cultures.

Here are some trans men from the 20th century: Alan L. Hart, Amelio Robles Ávila, Willmer ‘Little Ax” Broadnax, and Charley Parkhurst, to name a few.

So what's there to erase? A modern, Western trend?

Thailand has a large trans community.

https://www.connectsavannah.com/savannah/why-are-there-so-many-transgender-women-in-thailand/Content?oid=2855178

https://theculturetrip.com/asia/thailand/articles/a-brief-history-of-thailands-transgender-community/

https://thailand505.com/why-are-there-so-many-transgender-ladyboys-in-thailand/

India passed trans rights laws.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/01/what-does-indias-transgender-community-want/

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/12/04/784398783/india-just-passed-a-trans-rights-bill-why-are-trans-activists-protesting-it

It'd be like erasing emos. They'll erase themselves eventually, just like the emos did, once teens find something else to obsess over.

The difference with trends is they last a few years (at most a decade). Emos were popular in 2010-2012. Bangs were popular in 08-09 and the fidget spinner trend lasted a year. There have been trans people always in history, as I pointed out above.

False equivalence. Again, count the misogynistic slurs. You'll be at it all day. The only "slurs" you could possibly find for men, were made & used almost exclusively by men.

The slurs I listed are used mostly by women on Ovarit.

There are videos on youtube where trans adult human males are losing their minds over being called "sir" lol the fact that they can get so triggered by regular, innocuous words illustrates that they don't experience being called worse things, like genuine slurs.

Trans males don't get triggered by being called "sir". Trans females do. Though I agree it's wrong.

Assigned at birth is a term related to people with DSDs.

Link me a source where people with DSDs invented that term.

ROGD is caused by social contagion & it's the reason all these middle-class, young het girls think they are trans nowadays, when this trend never existed within this demographic previously. It's obviously not biologically determined, otherwise what has changed about all these girls' biology?

Yuo! Every single middle class girl wants to be a boy. But children from other socio-economic classes are never trans.

If you had been male, you would not have had an issue with that.

I would.

The only people who seem to have that issue are some feminine homosexuals & autogynacephiles. And the former group is mostly temporary since up to 95% desist.

Detransition is rare. In a 2015 survey of nearly 28,000 people conducted by the U.S.-based National Center for Transgender Equality, only 8 percent of respondents reported detransitioning, and 62 percent of those people said they only detransitioned temporarily. The most common reason for detransitioning, according to the survey, was pressure from a parent, while only 0.4 percent of respondents said they detransitioned after realizing transitioning wasn’t right for them.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/media-s-detransition-narrative-fueling-misconceptions-trans-advocates-say-n1102686

Gender dysphoria is a Western thing, hence why the icd-11 doesn't refer to it as a "dysphoria" (a type of depression) & does not define it as "distressing":

ICD is for diseases. Transgender is not a disease.

Genderbender · 2021-05-26T00:30:17+00:00

This is not just naive, it's total gaslighting.

This is not gaslighting.

Most sex assaults and other kinds of physical assaults do not result in investigation, much less prosecution "to the full extent of the law."

That is certainly an issue that needs to be addressed on it's own merits.

Genderbender · 2021-05-25T17:13:24+00:00

But GC feminists often say men's issues are not feminist issues, talk about how awful AMAB men are and don't defend men. Yet when trans men are "infiltrating" cis men's spaces, suddenly GCs stick up for them. I thought men's issues are not feminist issues? It just shows one of their main goals is to be anti-trans.

Genderbender · 2021-05-25T15:13:46+00:00

Free speech as a principle should matter for society at large. If someone can lose their job, receive death & rape threats for not agreeing with the status quo of the day their free speech isn't very free is it? The status quo will change. It always does and one day you may very well be on the wrong end of it.

I do not believe people should receive death & rape threats, but employers are already allowed to fire employees for hate speech on their personal social media, like racist and sexist speech. Why should transphobic speech be different? If you think people shouldn't be fired for transphobic speech, that's fine. But that also means people shouldn't be fired for racist and sexist speech outside of work.

Would you like it if a bunch of bigots banned every trans sub on reddit? Would you like it if 100s perhaps even 1000s of people tried to get you fired, because you said something in support of trans activism they didn't like?

Then I'd use another site and boycott reddit. Reddit is a private company and can do what they please.

Genderbender · 2021-05-25T15:04:05+00:00

The trans movement is all about appropriation & erasure of sex & by extension of women & homosexuals. GC is just a reaction to that. It counters hate groups like the MRM & the trans MRM.

The GC movement is about blaming erasing trans people.

"Misandry" doesn't exist. It's just a silencing tactic against anyone exposing misogyny. Calling feminists man-haters is the oldest anti-feminist trick in the book.

If it weren't for posts like this, we wouldn't be saying feminists are man hating.

Misogynistic males come up with sexist slurs daily. Where are all the slurs GC is coining against men?

GCs on Ovarit and Saidit constantly use slurs against trans people, such as narcissist, delusional, fetishistic, lying little shit, mental case, fujoshi, YAOI, "everyone wants to be oppressed" just to name a few. I didn't make up these slurs. They are from actual GC threads.

If there were any, then trans adult human males wouldn't have a mental breakdown every time someone called them men, while hypocritically calling everyone "cis".

Trans men don't have a breakdown from being called men.

Assigned by Mother Nature then? Well it didn't happen at birth. You can't change sex btw. Just because your preferred sex does not match your sex that doesn't make your sex "assigned", it's just your sex, which is different from being your preferred sex. The terminology "assigned sex at birth" is appropriated from intersex people's experience.

Intersex people did not invent the term "assigned sex at birth".

Social contagion is the reason for all the het girls. It's also a really androcentric view to need to mutilate yourself. It's just not necessary if you're female. People convinced them that changing sex is possible. Parents & society didn't tell their gay kids who developed a cross-gender identification that being gay was possible & okay.

There is a thing called dysphoria and it's not caused by social contagion. I was born female. The thought of me having a penis grosses me out. If I was born male, I would feel great distress and want to transition via hormones and surgery so I wouldn't fee; distress in my body. Most of us TRAs are supportive of LGB communities. From high school I always said "it's OK to be gay" to homophobic classmates, was happy when gay marriage was legalized in my state when I was finishing 9th grade and I still supported the trans community at that time.

Western society is probably responsible for gender dysphoria, which is why cultures outside the West don't experience it, hence why the icd-11 doesn't include it, because it's not universal, just Western.

Please provide me a link to data on trans populations by country. Otherwise, this statement is meaningless.

Genderbender · 2021-05-25T03:19:35+00:00

On this thread you've bragged about the role you've played in getting women who disagree with you

I did participate in r/gendercynical, but I merely pointed out AFAB people (including myself) were also instrumental in getting GC subs banned. By the way, Reddit is a private-owned site and can make their own rules. Free speech merely refers to the government.

Genderbender · 2021-05-25T02:11:07+00:00

But it’s been explained to you that for others, privacy is absolutely a sex segregated thing.

Everyone views privacy differently. I personally feel privacy when only fat brunette people can see me change. Are we going to start segregating people by weight now?

Stalls will not help preventing cameras planted by men.

You're right. Prosecution is the only thing that will stop men from implanting cameras.

Stalls can be blocked by stronger male bodies and now the assault is happening in a locked space.

I support cameras in common areas of the bathrooms (except for the stalls). Anyone who assaults anyone, physically, sexually or whatever will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Genderbender · 2021-05-25T00:28:51+00:00

Once again, your response shows that your solipsism is off the charts. The fact that you a heterosexual woman would have sex with a "trans man" doesn't mean that most/all/any gay men will be so inclined. Can you really not see how effing heteronormative, homophobic & sexist it is to base your ideas of gay male sexual tastes & behaviors on what you as a heterosexual woman are into?

Some cis gay men are in fact into trans men. Some trans men are gay men.

Genderbender · 2021-05-24T23:27:18+00:00

GB, everyone who reads your posts gets that you are an authoritarian oligarch

For one, I am not an oligarch as I have no power to control the majority of the government.

who thinks people with different views to your own should not have basic rights to things like free speech,

I believe in free speech in the conventional sense. When most people say free speech, they mean consequences for their speech should not come from the government.

bodily privacy and physical safety.

I support bodily privacy and physical safety. I said I wanted separate stalls for everyone. I just don't believe privacy has anything to do with sex segregation.

People who use wishful thinking, costume changes, cosmetics, hormones, surgeries and bullying of others in an attempt to "transition" from one sex to the other, or out of sex entirely, might have a temporary illusion of control - but it's only an illusion, and usually a short-lived one at that.

There are people who are trans for years and it's not an illusion.

Genderbender · 2021-05-24T18:15:57+00:00

Based on what? If women actually behaved like that we'd be rid of all those men's rights groups ages ago.

Trans people did not "rid" the gender critical groups. We just got them banned from reddit. They created Ovarit, and found new homes on spinster.xyz and Saidit. Same for any other hate groups, they will create their own platforms.

Unfortunately only men plan & make targeted attacks on subreddits in large enough groups to get a sub banned.

So you know the sex of all those anonymous internet users?

FYI, sex is only "assigned" when it's ambiguous i.e. never in the cases of transgender people. The terms for the sexes are 'male' & 'female'. You don't ever say "reassigned female after transition", or something equally ridiculous, do you? You don't hesitate to describe an adult human male simply as 'female', if he self-identifies that way.

When you're assigned or reassigned a sex, you have no control over that. When you transition, you have control. No one told you you had dysphoria and to transition. You came to that conclusion yourself.

Genderbender · 2021-05-24T17:04:05+00:00

Some articles do talk about how certain oppressions intersect, like what not to say to a mixed race woman, or how racism and rape culture work in similar ways. But you're right, most articles only focus on one topic. I'll admit I don't like many of their articles, like when they say food and yoga is cultural appropriation or we need to stop hating on sociopaths. I do wish sometimes they could be more specific in what allies can do. But I have to give them credit for some things.

They always use racially-diverse stock images for their articles. For instance, in an article about disability, they had a photo of a Mongolian woman using sign language. You won't find this kind of representation on most American media.
They're open to criticism. They posted an article about what employers can do to help food insecure employees, such as by changing the language around food insecurity. People criticized the article and pointed out the only thing employers can do to help food insecure employees is to pay their employees better. Everyday Feminism removed the article, admitted they were wrong and apologized. There are other instances when they were open to accountability.
They talk about all kinds of oppressions, which affect women too. I am a disabled woman. Ableism affects me.
The staff for their site are diverse, and they also believe in paying livable wages to their staff.

So those are the positive things about them. Also, anyone who is competing to see who is the most oppressed is doing intersectionality wrong. Intersectionality does not mean people get to silence certain issues just because they're more oppressed. But that's not something I see often enough that it's worth discussing.

Genderbender · 2021-05-24T16:37:42+00:00

I agree with you 100%. Trans men themselves say they don't transition due to misogyny or trauma due to being a woman, but GCs like to force that narrative on them.

Genderbender · 2021-05-24T13:29:52+00:00

female specific rights

What right's do females have that others don't?

Genderbender · 2021-05-24T13:12:50+00:00

I'm saying trans men and AFAB people were also instrumental in getting all the gender critical subs removed. It wasn't just trans women and AMAB people.

Genderbender · 2021-05-24T13:04:09+00:00

I'm glad you think that way! But the former r/gendercritical had an entire thread complaining about the female symbol being removed.

Genderbender · 2021-05-24T13:02:56+00:00

Yes, I know that Grimm and Adams - young females with a huge amount of internalized misogyny, homophobia especially against lesbians, and self-hatred

What makes you think they have self-hatred – besides the fact that they transitioned? I have not heard Grimm and Adams say anything negative about gays and lesbians. Also "internalized misogyny" applies to women, not trans men.

But trust me, boys & men - the XY kind - do not want these female people in their spaces, they do not see them as members of their own sex, and they do not respect them. On the contrary, they ridicule them, consider them pathetic losers and much worse. If you want to hear true "transphobia," you should hear what adolescent boys, young men & even older men say about people like Grimm in private.

I will call out that kind of transphobia when I hear it.

Yeah, they can go there, but no gay men will want to have sex with them, LOL. And their presence will be resented. A female who removes her breasts doesn't become part male by doing so. Female "bottom surgery" alters female anatomy; but even altered, it's not a convincing facsimile of what they're aiming to replicate.

Even in cases of the most "successful" phalloplasty, what female people end up is equipment that in no way is anything like a real dick and balls. Very few female people who have phalloplasties use them to have sex with others, particularly not with gay men; all females get out of phalloplasty is the ability to pee standing up. The vast majority of females who have other kinds of "bottom surgery" are same-sex attracted, so if they have IRL sex with other people, it's with other female people.

These "transmen" really are not doing themselves or the trans cause any favors by trying to horn in on gay male spaces. The fact that you don't get this suggests that you know very little about sex, and are utterly clueless about the nature of male sexuality and gay male sexuality specifically. Gay males are dick connoiseurs; they know the difference between Spam and foie gras full well and can tell right off the proverbial bat.

I'm a straight woman, and I would have sex with a passing trans man. Many people are attracted to gender presentation, not birth sex.

Genderbender · 2021-05-19T03:37:28+00:00

Also, practically everyone here was on reddit, on feminist subs. We all got expunged &/or our subs banned because some men decided that a movement dedicated to examining & fighting against sexism wasn't affirming their self-identification as "valid women", due to feminist analysis far too often acknowledging the existence of sex – which is the height of transphobia, didn't you know?

Trans men were doing the same thing. At least half of the users on r/gendercynical are AFAB. r/FTM has 20+ threads complaining about "TERFs".

Wrong. The pressure is coming from the male ones. They just blame the female ones.

It is a trans man who got Always to remove the female symbol from their products. It is an enby AFAB who wrote the article that we need to stop associating periods with women.

https://www.health.com/mind-body/lgbtq-health/menstruating-as-non-binary-person

https://aninjusticemag.com/stop-calling-pads-and-tampons-feminine-products-42aa9d27775f

Genderbender · 2021-05-19T03:29:46+00:00

Finally, now that gay men are being told they're bigots if they don't want to eat or fuck "boi pussy" and the like, a lot of gay guys are starting be pissed off and to push back. Gay guys don't want to have to open up their all-male spaces and sex parties to females who ID as males. They find the whole idea homophobic. See Sheridan Sinclair's articles about this on Substack & in Gay & Lesbian News.

You're free to refuse sex with anyone for any reason. Most trans people agree with this. However, gay trans men who are attracted to other men have the right to be in gay spaces depending on the space and to the extent they transitioned. A trans man who had top and bottom surgery and passes well can enter a gay sauna.

Males have been using opposite sex identity claims to try to encroach upon, perv on, dominate, prey on girls and women, and to roll back our rights, going back to the early 1970s and before. Whereas females claiming to be male or trans is a relatively new phenomenon, one that's only arisen since the 1990s - and in a big way over the past decade or so. Moreover, most of the females who've jumped on the trans train are teens, pre-teens or young adults. There is no huge cohort of female adults declaring themselves to be male in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s the way there is with male adults.

Trans men existed in the 20s. Alan L. Hart, Amelio Robles Ávila, Willmer ‘Little Ax” Broadnax, and Charley Parkhurst, to name a few.

When females who identify as males start demanding admission to college fraternities, men's private clubs, the priesthood and the like, there will be much more push back on this. However, because "transmen" don't pose a physical threat to males, and because they've all gone through female socialization growing up, there will still be differences of kind as well as degree in the efforts they'll make in the future trying to encroach upon male spaces and male rights.

Gavin Grimm and Drew Adams sued their high schools because they weren't allowed to use the boy's bathroom. Nick H. won 300K after suing his Anoka-Hennepin school district because he was barred from the boy's locker room. Over 150 FTM students were escorted out of the Iowa Capitol because they refused orders to leave the men’s restroom and use gender-neutral bathrooms instead.

Genderbender · 2021-05-19T02:13:59+00:00

Women do not present a threat to men, or other women for that matter.

So women never physically harm other women? Gotcha!

Female trans people occupy the same role as female people in general trying to play nice with the patriarchy to gain male respect or establish how "not like other girls" they are.

Trans men can't be "not like the other girls" because they are not girls to begin with. They're boys/men.

Genderbender · 2021-05-19T02:06:28+00:00

For the same exact job working for the same employer withe same qualifications & experience? In what country?

Yes, for the same exact job, employer and hours. I'm talking about the US

Sounds like you're confusing earnings inequality with wage inequality.

I'm not. There was a study where they sent out fake resumes for STEM-related positions. All the resumes were identical, except half had a male name and half have a female name. Men were more likely to get a call back. Scientists were also asked to rate applicants competence, and men were rated more compete tent than women and were more likely to be offered a higher starting salary, even if they had the qualifications and identical resumes (except for the name).

Science faculty’s subtle gender biases favor male students - Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America

Women are 30 percent less likely to be considered for a hiring process than men - phys.org

Employers' Replies to Racial Names - National Bureau of Economic Research

Genderbender · 2021-05-18T17:14:30+00:00

But trans men are a part of trans rights activism as much as trans women.

Genderbender · 2021-05-18T17:07:54+00:00

I can see why you wouldn't think that's a big deal because you're not a woman, but try to have a little empathy.

I am a cis woman.

I haven't in particular read Kimberlé Crenshaw but I know she coined the term intersectionality and I know what it means. Intersectionality means oppressions are interconnected. For instance, women get paid less than men. But WOC will get paid less than white woman. Women are more likely to get their pain dismissed by doctors. I remember a Facebook comment on an Everyday Feminism article about racism. A black woman wrote she goes to a hospital in her state of Florida for heart issues, but they don't treat her and instead test her for drugs because she's "young and urban" (code word for "black"). LGBT people experience discrimination and heteronormativity, but disabled LGBT people experience more of it and may experience discrimination within the LGBT community.

Everyday feminism has plenty of articles on sexism, street harassment, pay inequalities, etc. if you look.

Some people think intersectionality is the "oppression Olympics" or a competition to see who is most oppressed. But that's just an internet myth, not the understanding of intersectional scholars.

Genderbender · 2021-05-18T16:25:41+00:00

Yes, and I don't agree with it.

Genderbender · 2021-05-18T16:12:00+00:00

No, I think they are ignorant and have latched onto “be nice” pseudo feminism that serves to give men what they want. Trans women are male and being adult and male is the only thing that makes someone a man.

These women also believe trans men should have the right to use the men's restroom. The transgender movement is also about trans men.

Genderbender · 2021-05-18T16:10:28+00:00

Gender identity is the personal conception of oneself as male, female, both or neither. I was born female, and love being female (except for periods). If I was born male, I would feel great distress and want to transition via hormones and surgery. The thought of me having a penis freaks me out. I'm sure trans women feel the same way, and trans men feel the same way for the opposite reasons.

Genderbender · 2021-05-18T16:03:36+00:00

I like Everyday Feminism. One of the reason is they deal with every oppression, not just women's oppression. They promote the idea of intersectionality, the idea that oppressions are interconnected. I'll admit myself only half of their articles are great, the other half are BS. I am disabled, Jewish and female. But in spite of the sexism and anti-Semitism in this world, I was discriminated more for being disabled than I was for being Jewish and female combined. I was in a self-contained classroom FULL TIME from kindergarten until high school, all due to a learning disability. Disabled children are often placed in separate classrooms in school and segregated for the rest of the school. Disability issues are seldom talked about, even in social justice communities, especially special education. Everyday feminism wrote an article titled 4 Ways Ableism in My Elementary School Left Me Completely Traumatized. That article was written by an autistic person. I have to give them credit for discussing as subject seldom talked about.

There is a saying in the disability community "nothing about us, without us". For too long, conversations about disability tend to be dominated by able-bodied parent's and professionals, when in reality, they should be dominated by disabled people. For instance, at an IEP meeting in high school, a bunch of professionals sat around me and talked about me without including me in the conversation, even though this is my IEP. They talked about what they wanted to work on with me, without asking me first if this is something I wanted to work on. They never asked for my input in the IEP, except for the transition part because they are required to do that by law. That was just a survey on what I wanted to become in the future. Another example is when a professor gives an assignment to prospective special education teachers

There was recently a conference and live Q&A titled "Autism Explained" on teachable.com. Unlike most autism conferences, 75% of the speakers were autistic themselves. This is a perfect example of "nothing about us, without us".

Here are some other excellent articles by Everyday Feminism:

8 Ways the Media Upholds White Privilege and Demonizes People of Color

7 Strategies for White Educators to Help Foster Racial Justice

5 Ways to Avoid Common Ally Pitfalls by Learning From Your Mistakes

Here’s What Sexism in Higher Ed Looks Like – And Why It’s a Problem

Dress Codes, Double Standards, and 4 Other Subtle Ways Women Face Sexism at Work

7 Things We Need to Stop Saying to People Taking Anti-Depressants

10 Examples of Straight Privilege

15 Common Phrases That Are Way More Ableist Than You May Realize

3 Things That Must Happen with the End of Private Prisons

Don’t Call My Sister ‘Cute’ – 6 Good Reasons to Stop Infantilizing Disabled People

Genderbender · 2021-05-18T14:55:14+00:00

No, I don't think all non-English speakers should think the same, but apparently you do think so given what you have said. You're the one who want to change every language, including all the ones you don't speak to. Don't you think many non-English speakers would have a problem with this idea of getting rid of sex based words? Especially if the person proposing it neither speak their language nor live in their country?

You said "I'd prefer you leave us non-English speakers alone." Who is us? I am also a non-English speaker. I'm sure there are speakers of every language who want to get rid of gendered language, especially non-binary people, who are everywhere.

We're a sexually dismorphic species and sex matters a lot in things like health care, safeguarding, dating, making a family, sports, etcetera. That is why we have words that indicate sex and why is important to recolect data segregated by sex.

There are some areas where sex matters, bu

My former psychology professor told us when we meet someone the 1st thing we as is their gender, to apply stereotypes. For instance, on a parenting forum, an anonymous parent made a post about how they're an attorney and due to their busy work schedule they had no time to spend with their kid which made the kid upset. People kept asking the parent if they were the mother or the father, even though that was irrelevant to the discussion. They clearly wanted to apply stereotypes, that the mother should spend time with the child while it's OK for the father to have a busy work schedule. Same forum, parent posted how their teen didn't want to see their father and didn't like the father's new girlfriend. People kept asking for the gender of the teen, although that was irrelevant to the discussion. I support bringing up gender when it's relevant. You can say "this person at my church..." not "this woman at my church, who is 46, white with brunette hair and green eyes...". You can bring up characteristics when it's necessary.

Genderbender · 2021-05-18T00:15:05+00:00

Trans women aren't men. We define gender identity as a personal conception of oneself as male, female, both or neither.

According to a PPRI study, 51% of men support requiring transgender individuals to use bathrooms corresponding to their assigned sex at birth, compared to four in ten 40% of women. Are you going to tell these women that they hate themselves?

Genderbender