Both: What do you think about the NHS ending the gender-affirmation care model for youth in England?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Huh? Since when can a story in the Daily Mail be taken as an accurate reflection of what the NHS guidance the SEGM report say?

I concede.

In response, I gave a long thoughtful comment illustrating that, as the Cass report says, "socially transitioning" of children is "not a neutral act." Rather it's an act that locks kids into a claimed gender identity at a very early age and makes it very difficult for those kids to desist, dial back and reverse course.

I didn't read the entire Cass report because it's 100 pages but I found the part where they said socially transitioning of children is not a neutral act. That next page says "‘doing nothing’ cannot be considered a neutral act." So if your 4 year old kid who was AMAB repeatedly says "I'm a girl" doing nothing and ignoring it is not a neutral act either.

The other thing is I disagree with the idea that socially transitioning kids into a claimed gender identity at a very early age and makes it very difficult for those kids to desist. Just like a child who was assigned male at birth can repeatedly say "I'm a girl" and ask others to use she/her pronouns, that same child can claim "I'm a boy" and ask others to use he/him pronouns. I don't think kids socially transitioned are any more "locked-in" than kids who are told their gender is their birth sex and others use corresponding pronouns.

How on earth can Kai Shappley at age 11 stop identifying as trans when Kai's entire social identity and Kai's mother's whole life, social identity, social standing and job are based on her being the mother of a "trans child"? Kim Shappley, Kai's mom, has been very open about how starting when Kai was 18 months old, she spent several years repeatedly hitting, yelling at, punishing, praying over, shaming and depriving Kai for liking "girl toys" and "girl clothes" and for "acting girly." Because Kim S is a right-wing Christian fundamentalist and raging homophobe who feared that her toddler son's tastes and behavior indicated he might grow up to be gay - a prospect that filled homophobe mom with horror and panic over what others might think about her.

Now Kim works as a paid "gender activist" who trots Kai around the country and before the cameras so he can be a "trans child" show pony and mouthpiece for canned propaganda written by adult trans activists. How can Kai simply stop identifying as trans now? You really think Kai isn't fully aware that desisting from a trans identity would most likely result in Kai's mom going ballistic and in Kai being beaten, shamed, punished, bullied and deprived by mum and others in Kai's life all over again?

How do you know that Kim repeatedly hits, yells at, punishes and shames Kai? Is there any evidence of this?

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think kids socially transitioned are any more "locked-in" than kids who are told their gender is their birth sex and others use corresponding pronouns.

I don’t think it is more “locked-in” either, but I think it matters what you think is better too. Many of us feel like it is better for someone to be able to live as their sex and not have to alter their bodies in ways that sterilize them, decrease their life expectancy, and require permanent medication. If someone can successfully be “locked-in” to accepting their sex, that seems like a good outcome. If someone needs to transition to be okay, trust me, no amount of not affirming will make that go away. That person will still be able to transition, but we won’t be creating life-long medical patients from people who would have otherwise desisted. That’s how I feel about it at least. Transition should be treated as the last resort so it’s dangerous to do social transition at early ages because it leads to medicalization almost all the time. That isn’t what we should want for kids and it’s super sus to me that many seem to want that.

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How do you know that Kim repeatedly hits, yells at, punishes and shames Kai? Is there any evidence of this?

There is plenty of evidence for what happened to Kai. The child's own mother has admitted in multiple media interviews that she beat Kai for gender nonconformity as a toddler.

Kimberly turned to a DIY form of conversion therapy. She dressed Kai in camouflage and held her down to cut her blond hair into a flattop. Since most of the family’s seven children are boys—Kimberly has one adult daughter—there were no “girl toys” at home, but Kimberly asked the Christian daycare Kai attended to hide any baby dolls from her as well. When Kai turned her T-shirts into skirts or insisted she was a girl, Kimberly spanked her. When Kai asked for a Minnie Mouse birthday cake, Kimberly bought her one with Mickey.

“No matter how much punishment this kid got, you couldn’t beat it out of her,” Kimberly said. “You couldn’t pray it out, I couldn’t cast it out.”

https://splinternews.com/she-was-an-ultraconservative-texas-christian-then-kai-1793859323

"I remember thinking even before Kai was 3, this kid might be gay....& I thought that cannot happen...would not happen. We started praying fervently. Prayers turned into googling conversion therapy, and how can we implement these techniques at home to make Kai not be like this."

"Putting her in timeout for acting like a girl...for stealing girl toys. Spanking her...REALLY spanking her, every time she said mommy you know I'm a girl."

https://archive.is/zWlen

Not all parents of transitioned children are physically abusive. While horrible in other ways, I don't believe Jazz Jennings' parents ever beat their child. But it makes me absolutely sick to see people like the Shappleys fawned over in the media. What they did constitutes blatant child abuse.