How much do we owe to strangers?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

How does homosexuality include gender? It is sex based attraction.

Words have meaning that does not and will never be able to account for idiosyncratic definitions whilst also being meaningful language.

Heterosexual cannot mean a million things to a million people and effectively communicate a cohesive idea. That’s the purpose of language.

Interesting that everyone is allowed to define their own sexuality but lesbians who define it as adult human females attracted to adult human females are somehow wrong. Care to explain that discrepancy?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Wikipedia defines homosexuality as "romantic attraction, sexual attraction, or sexual behavior between members of the same sex or gender."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

[–]Juniperius 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Oh jeez, don't go to wikipedia for definitions, what are you thinking? Here's Merriam Webster:

1 now sometimes offensive, see usage paragraph below : sexual or romantic attraction to others of one's same sex : the quality or state of being gay

2 now sometimes offensive, see usage paragraph below : sexual activity with another of the same sex

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

Transsexual people change their sex characteristics so cis men who date trans men can be considered gay men if the trans man presents and passes as a man. Super gay describes gay men who aren't attracted to trans men. QT believes it's wrong to tell a gay person "no, you're really bisexual" if they identify as gay or straight. Being attracted to trans people who identify and present as the sex you're attracted to doesn't necessarily make you bisexual.

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I thought QT claimed super gays were transphobic?

Also, can you define what is sex? Because it seems you are using to mean different things. Sometimes you use to mean whether someone is male or female (using biological based terms here), and sometimes you use to mean wheather someone has undergone body modifications to resemble the opposite sex or not (as if sex change was actually possible).

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

It's not transphobic to not want to date or not to be attracted to trans people. Heck, you are allowed to reject people for any reason, including the fact that they're trans, they have a birthmark, they're fat, or their race, etc. We do consider the r/superstraight sub transphobic because it turned into gender critical 2.0 or another LGBdroptheT. We also consider it transphobic to exclude trans people from homosexual spaces if they identify with that sexuality. One example of this is when r/AskGayBros says trans men are women and tells them they do not belong there, even though trans men are men and the space was equally made for them.

Sex is the sex you identify, present and pass as. If a trans man was on T for a couple of years, had top and bottom surgery, presents and passes as a man then he can go to a gay orgy or gay sauna.

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Sex is the sex you identify, present and pass as. If a trans man was on T for a couple of years, had top and bottom surgery, presents and passes as a man then he can go to a gay orgy or gay sauna.

So, would you tell this hypothetical "transman" to get her prostate checked (even though she doesn't have one)? Could this "transman" get a woman pregnant?

And what about animals? How does sex work in animals? Do they get to choose which sex they "identify as"? Could there be such a thing as a milking bull, for example?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

Most trans men prefer he/him pronouns so I suggest you use that. To answer your question, I wouldn't tell a trans man to get his prostate checked because he doesn't have a prostate. I am aware of the difference between biological sex and gender identity, I just don't think biological sex is relevant outside the medical and reproductive context. For instance, I don't believe spaces like bathrooms and changing rooms should be segregated by sex. I don't think birth sex should determine what pronouns we should use for a pronoun and what words should someone use to describe their sexual orientation. A trans woman can totally be a lesbian and a cis woman and a trans man in a relationship can characterize their relationship and their sexual orientations as straight. Animals can't form their own identities.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

What is the benefit to society in pretending that sex is irrelevant to things like crime stats when sex is heavily correlated to violent crime?

What is the end goal of telling homosexuals their sexuality is wrong and must be based on gender instead?

What problems are solved by forcing people to pretend their perceptions are inaccurate and that sexual dimorphism in humans went away?

How about the fact that most lesbians hate being told they should accept males in their dating pools? How about most gay men do not like being told to touch a vagina? How about most women with a preference for short hair and masculine clothing prefer not to be asked if they are men?

Why do these preferences not matter but it matters when a woman wants us to redefine the words woman and man to suit her?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

What is the benefit to society in pretending that sex is irrelevant to things like crime stats when sex is heavily correlated to violent crime?

If someone commits a crime, they committed a crime. Their sex doesn't matter and shouldn't determine how horrible the crime is.

What is the end goal of telling homosexuals their sexuality is wrong and must be based on gender instead?

Most people are not telling homosexuals their sexuality is wrong. If you're not attracted to trans people, that's 100% fine.

What problems are solved by forcing people to pretend their perceptions are inaccurate and that sexual dimorphism in humans went away?

Sexual dimorphism is only relevant in medical, reproductive and sometimes dating contexts because some people don't want to date trans people. Otherwise sex is not relevant.

How about the fact that most lesbians hate being told they should accept males in their dating pools?

If a cis lesbian is at a lesbian meetup and a trans lesbian approaches her to ask her out and the cis lesbian rejects her, that's totally fine. She can reject the other woman for any reason she wants, even if the reason is solely because the other woman is trans. In most situations like this the trans person accepts the rejection and doesn't ask again.

How about most gay men do not like being told to touch a vagina?

I don't think straight men like to be told to touch a vagina. I'm sure if I asked random straight dudes to touch my vagina they wouldn't be pleases.

How about most women with a preference for short hair and masculine clothing prefer not to be asked if they are men?

Then they shouldn't be asked. I use pronouns based on someone's appearance unless I know that person prefers different pronouns.