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[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I just read the article you quoted. 1st the comparisons are between males with normal hormone levels and females with normal hormone levels. 2nd I've read through the whole article and doesn't say anywhere that no fair rules could possibly exist - even if your phrasing may make that seem different.

Tucker simply argues for exclusion until such rules are found. For both safety and the sake of competition. And who would have guessed that I don't disagree.

What do I bring to the conversation. Not a lot since I don't know if the rules are fair and won't judge on that front. My objective is simply to scout out what GC thinks - one which I have achieved. But the conversation brings a lot to me. By GCs reaction to my initial answer I can get a rough picture of how many are actually interested in fairness and safety while the other does not want males in women's sport full stop.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Huh? I didn't quote an article. I made reference to the extensive, in-depth report that Ross Tucker did for World Rugby and to Tucker's many published works on this topic. These include numerous posts and blog entries on the Science of Sport website made over many years, articles in newspapers such as the Times (of London), the many media interviews he's given, his Twitter feed and, above all, his many podcasts (some of which are only accessible by subscribers).

I can get a rough picture of how many are actually interested in fairness and safety while the other does not want males in women's sport full stop.

Please set forth the scenario and criteria which you think would allow "males in women's sports" whilst preserving fairness and safety for female people.

I don't mean to insult you, but you seem to have little grasp of the differences in physical development of male and female humans not just during and after the puberty of adolescence, but in utero, infancy and early childhood - and all the consequences these differences have for sports performance from the get-go. I get the impression you did not participate in competitive (or other) sports as a kid (as I did), that you haven't ever taught or coached kids/young people in sports (as I have), that you've never raised or been involved in raising children (as I have), and that you don't really follow sports (as I do).

To start to get acquainted with the difference in male and female human sports performance from early childhood, I suggest you look at the different growth size and rate charts used for male and female infants; the junior sports records set by pre-adolescent children in various sports in different countries around the world; and the stats for US kids who had to undergo the annual President's Physical Fitness tests during and after the era of JFK. Also look at what's happened with Little League Baseball since it became open to both sexes in 1974.