Both: What do you think of the new Super Straight movement?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

For those not in the know:

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/super-straight

I've been hanging out on r/SuperStraight, and even though I know the sub will eventually be banned, it's great to see so much solidarity between the Super Straights (who are mainly young straight guys) and the Super Lesbians, Super Gays, and Super Bis. There are a lot of people learning for the first time about how lesbians in particular are having their sexual boundaries erased. And the sub is even doing a fundraiser for Vancouver Rape Relief. Like most memes, this will probably be short lived, but at least it's raising awareness of some important issues.

What are your thoughts on this new movement?

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 18 insightful - 4 fun18 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

I love it. I love it so fucking much lmao

I think it’s sad that it even needed to become a thing, tho. But I love that lgb people jumped on it and now there’s a “super” for each sexuality. I’m hoping it leads to superman and superwoman lol

I hope it draws attention to the issues in trans ideology and tra rhetoric, as well as shines a light on the threats of violence that are thrown at gc people or people who just don’t accept trans ideology. I hope it makes people question other incidents, including things like what is happening with JKR and the woman she spoke out in support of (can’t recall her name atm). I hate to say it, but I hope it takes off and becomes a thing and causes discussions that need to be had about sex, sexuality, misogyny in the trans community and ideology, what actually constitutes transphobia, etc.

I’m also loving that so many tras don’t see the irony in them deciding that superstraight/gay/bi isn’t “valid”. I think the lack of self awareness in their reactions to it just may be my favorite part of this whole thing.

[–]Menstrual_Krampus 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

the woman she spoke out in support of (can’t recall her name atm).

Maya Forstater.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you!

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 16 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Hilarious. Tra/qt got cocky and now more people than ever are seeing just how grossly sexist and rapey movement is.

Super straight is a moment, not a movement. It can’t last but it’s for great memes.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don' t think it' s a movement per se, I think it' s just a reaction and I doubt any of them are actually serious about making a real LGBS community.

I find it funny and I hope it' s going to bring the issue (and other related issues) out in the open: I hate that it was needed in the first place, and I am frankly sad at the fact that all of this generated from one guy making a 2 minutes long video while we have been saying the same thing for years, but I am at a point in which I am not going to complain. In the end, we will be alone anyway, but for now this will do.

LGBs and straight people seem to have found a common ground at least, which, as a straight woman, is always something I am happy about after seeing years of homophobia from us. Too bad it had to happen because "no" actually doesn' t mean "no" anymore. I also like the fact that there is a decent amount of support for us "evil TERFs" and that it is showing that this movement has pissed off way more people than I initially thought. For them to be so dedicated and on point, it means that they have spent a lot of times dealing with TRAs, and they show quite a similar journey from ally/TRA to peaking hard.

The fact that they are using the same method TRAs are using, except that at least they are being ironic about it, is hilarious to me. That sub is one of the best parodies I have ever found.

[–]worried19[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

Update: GoFundMe banned the fundraiser, which raised over $7000 for Vancouver Rape Relief, and banned the creator of the fundraiser. Now the charity will not see any of that money.

These people are evil.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So they can just ban a fundraiser if they don’t like who it’s going to? It’s a rape shelter for godsake. This moment is so fucked. 😡

[–]worried19[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Apparently, yeah. I was talking with people on Ovarit about alerting the media. Something needs to be done.

The amount of silencing is just scary. Reddit is also banning people for their private messages now. YouTube is banning people for their comments. Goodreads is banning people for being gender critical. Twitter is already well known for kicking people off for unapproved speech.

I am so sorry assholes have co-opted the transsexual community. It's really fucked that normal trans people who just want to live their freaking lives have to get caught up in all this.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (22 children)

I mean they’re a transphobic organization so what did you expect? If the backers care so much they can always just find another way to donate

[–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

There is nothing transphobic about not wanting to date or have sex with trans people.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Of course there is, just like it’s fat phobic to not find fat people attractive just because they’re fat or racist to not find asian people attractive just because they’re asian.

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm heterosexual. I'm not into vaginas. I'm not transphobic for saying that.

This is exactly why Super Straight became a thing in the first place.

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    [–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

    Couldn't they ban them after the money goes thru? That way at least the shelter still gets the funds? It just seems like a terrible waste, that money could've done a lot of good for a lot of people.

    [–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    It's for women. Women don't matter in these people's eyes.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    Nah it’s just bigots we have trouble caring about

    [–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    So all the abused women at that shelter are bigots? Good to know.

    [–]adungitit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Haven't men been whining about how misandrist shelters are for a while now?

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

    The shelter could get the money by not being transphobic and discriminatory

    [–]shveya 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    Keeping men out of spaces meant for traumatized women isn't discriminatory or transphobic. That's just an entitled attitude to have towards women.

    [–]adungitit 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    In other words: The shelter could get money if it just didn't do what it is supposed to do to protect women from male violence, i.e. exclude male people.

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      [–]Menstrual_Krampus 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

      What made it great was that it was beating them at their own game. We played by their rules and they lost, so they threw the chessboard across the room.

      [–]worried19[S] 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

      R.I.P. r/SuperStraight.

      It was banned about half an hour ago. I knew it was inevitable, but I'm still sad. The amount of wholesomeness was surprising considering it was a sub filled with young straight dudes. Looks like their Discord was banned, too. TikTok erased the hashtag, and it seems the original teenage boy who invented Super Straight either deleted or was banned from TikTok. His family was getting death threats.

      There is an s/SuperStraight, although it's currently empty. Looks like they also created https://oursuperstories.com.

      [–]censorshipment 7 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

      It's a mixture of being serious and being facetious. Saying things that shouldn't need to be said. Trans/nonbinary/blahblahblah people are like bears disturbing peaceful bee hives. They want honey that they can't have, and they are "big mad" as the kids say.

      Bardfinn, the TRA leader of Reddit, needs to be called out.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/m0krg9/rsuperstraight_report_results_thread/

      [–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      Wow, so reddit shut down the subreddit and is banning and warning many of the people who posted on it. [Edit: it's not actually shut down - yet. I just couldn't find it when I looked earlier today. My bad.]

      [–]worried19[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      The subreddit is still there, but they're definitely gunning for it.

      [–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Thanks. I tried to find it earlier today, but couldn't. Just found it now, though.

      [–]worried19[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      It's gone now. It was just banned a few minutes ago.

      Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

      [–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      If guys want to say that, I feel like it’s fine. It’s silly that straight is suppose to automatically mean trans attracted. I feel like many straight identified guys might be fine dating some post-op transwomen, but that not what most transwomen are and I don’t like the push to change language. It’s not respecting people’s boundaries.

      [–]anxietyaccount8 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      I think it's pretty odd that the meme got so popular, but I do like that people are talking about orientation as a topic because it seems like there's so much confusion these days...especially with young women...

      [–]GaiusHelenMohiam 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Superman is both awesome and silly. I think that helped push the whole thing to viral status.

      [–]Britishbulldog 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      It won’t last but it’s made me smile and has given me hope that LGB have wider support

      [–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 9 fun3 insightful - 8 fun4 insightful - 9 fun -  (10 children)

      I mean it's mostly young alt-right reactionary guys finding a new fun way to make trans people hate themselves. I'm glad if some people find that funny I guess, but honestly to me it's just more of the same with a new name, I don't really care...

      [–]worried19[S] 16 insightful - 5 fun16 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 5 fun -  (8 children)

      It wasn't alt right. Plenty of young guys, but most of the people who commented were liberal or moderate and fully accepting of LGB. Most were cool with trans people, they just didn't want to date or have sex with them.

      The point of the whole movement was to say that trying to invalidate other people's sexual boundaries is wrong.

      [–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (7 children)

      trying to invalidate other people's sexual boundaries is wrong.

      I won't disagree with the point, but when every other big superstraight post on twitter was full of the usual alt right guys talking about how disgusting trannies are I think it probably becomes a problem. That's the issue with 'movements' like these, is that's the kind of thing it attracts. but idk, again it's hard to really care about the new flavour of the month.

      [–]worried19[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I can't speak for Twitter, but the mods on the Reddit sub were really focused on keeping that kind of stuff out.

      [–]MarkTwainiac 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      On the reddit sub while it lasted, the focus was on "who you love" and are attracted to, not who posters hate or find disgusting. I didn't see any revulsion expressed towards trans people; on the contrary, there were a lot of posts saying, "trans people are great, TWAW, trans is valid" and so on, with the caveat, "we just don't want to be told we're hateful bigots for not being sexually attracted to trans people."

      In the brief time the reddit sub was up, I saw a lot more posts expressing disgust and disdain for "TERFs" than for trans people. And I didn't see a single use of the slur you chose to use.

      [–]Menstrual_Krampus 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

      I did see a couple of comments where people used that word, but they were roundly downvoted.

      [–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

      Quoting people is not 'choosing' to use a slur, get out of here with that.

      [–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

      It's customary when quoting to use a typographical device to indicate clearly that something is a quote. Such as quotation marks. Or on this site

      this kind of thing

      You used neither in the case of the offensive slur you used. You just stated it outright, giving no indication that this was someone else's term you were quoting:

      I won't disagree with the point, but when every other big superstraight post on twitter was full of the usual alt right guys talking about how disgusting trannies are I think it probably becomes a problem.

      But funnily enough, in the next sentence you did use British-type quotation marks around another word, namely "movements."

      That's the issue with 'movements' like these, is that's the kind of thing it attracts. but idk, again it's hard to really care about the new flavour of the month.

      [–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

      Direct quoting and indirect quoting are two different things. I can give you some direct quotes if you'd like to read some really lovely things out there on the internet. It's obvious in the context of the sentence that this is said by 'alt right guys' ('usual alt right guys talking about how disgusting trannies are'), indirectly, as I have zero desire to search this stuff out to give you any semblance of a direct quote.

      you did use British-type quotation marks

      TIL that's a British thing, cool.

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        [–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        There’s very little making fun and a whole lot of examples of people being told their sexuality is a hatecrime.

        [–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

        I'm fine with it. If you wanna find a new label so I know who isn't willing to have adult fun time with me I can only benefit. I wanted to check it out, but seems the sub got banned 3 hours ago. Shame. But I checked out the related subs and unsurprisingly the movement seems also riddled with actual transphobia. Shame really. Now it only tells me to avoid anyone adopting the label unless I'm craving some degradation.

        Edit: it seems like the movement was more wholesome than I gave it credit for. If thats the case great. But it also kinda wants me to speed up my transition as long as I'm able to, given that some parties see this as a mass peaking event and I agree.

        Edit for my edit: I have followed the developments for 2 days now and unfortunately seems like the movement has been taken over by actual transphobia. Lot of harmful stereotypes beeing spread and a general lack of respect can be observed. Especially in my own country which kinda has me worried now. I think I'll have to expedite my transition even more just in case this gets big enough to gun after my rights.

        [–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

        I think it's more a joke than a movement. Either way, I support it because it's bringing to light the rape-y rethoric used by so many transactivists.

        [–]FlanJam 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

        Idk if its gonna get any traction, but at the very least you can say they did some good by raising money for Vancouver Rape Relief. And I do think there is a serious discussion to be had about how some qt push dangerous rhetoric, but that discussion is almost impossible to have.

        [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (43 children)

        It’s just an excuse to be transphobic. The whole thing is saying that being attracted to a trans person makes you less straight which is massively shitty to the straight people who are not averse to dating trans people and claiming to be part of the lgbt community is obviously not just transphobic but homophobic and biphobic.

        Edit for clarity. It’s not transphobic not to date trans people but implying that we are so disgusting that dating us makes someone less straight is extremely transphobic.

        [–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

        They aren’t saying it’s because trans people are disgusting, it’s because they aren’t the sex someone is capable of being attracted to. Being less than straight is not disgusting and it’s very homophobic to say it is.

        [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (20 children)

        They are literally saying that being inclusive of trans people makes someone less straight. They put themselves as “super” and therefore above the people who are inclusive of trans people. It’s not wrong to not be attracted to trans people but it is wrong and extremely transphobic to say that you are above people who are.

        [–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

        Super meaning very, not better than.

        adverb. INFORMAL especially; particularly. "he's been super understanding"

        It’s not disgusting to be bi or homosexual so how is it an insult to say someone is less straight than someone who is exclusively heterosexual?

        [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (18 children)

        Super is hierarchical necessarily and they are attempting to control other peoples sexualities by saying that straight people aren’t really straight because they include trans people. Of course not to mention the implication that follows that trans women aren’t women and trans men aren’t men which is literally the root belief of all transphobia.

        [–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

        Lol no. Asking for our own sexualities to be respected has nothing to do with anyone else’s. It never said people weren’t straight, they just weren’t super straight. Otherwise there’s have been a lot of informing people that an interest in say, transwomen and women means they are bisexual.

        Of course it doesn’t believe TWAW/TMAM..it’s a recognition of SEXual orientation and the SEX of the individual. Genderism doesn’t come into sexuality. The entire point was the need for transgender people to stop ignoring the existence of their sex and the fact that sexuality, homosexuality in particular, is not a preference or choice.

        [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (14 children)

        You are actively arguing for other people’s sexualities not to be respected. It could have been cis sexual or orthodox sexual or a million other things that didn’t imply a hierarchy, but instead you create a hierarchy and use it to denigrate trans people and those who aren’t as anti trans as you. It’s just another way to be shitty to trans people.

        You don’t have to be attracted to trans people but you also don’t need to insult us and those who actually respect us.

        [–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

        The heirarchy is only in your mind. Cis would validate genderism so it couldn’t be used. Orthodox sexual insinuates there is something unorthodox about homosexuality or bisexuality. There is no denigration in our wording but plenty in yours.

        How is there any insult in people saying they have a sexuality that excludes some people? Like quote me all this hatred and vitriol or stop claiming it.

        [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (11 children)

        For I believe the fourth time there’s nothing wrong with not dating trans people, but a marketing campaign about how trans people are so gross that being attracted to them makes someone less straight and how the people who don’t like us are SUPERior is pretty obviously transphobic.

        [–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

        And for the fourth time to you, it’s not a marketing campaign to say transgender people are gross. Clearly you cannot back up this statement you keep making.

        Super has already been defined for you as meaning particularly or especially. You are the one who keeps saying that not being extremely straight is somehow gross or inferior. You are the one choosing to interpret super as meaning superior and not the definition provided for you.
        Not surprising given the absolute insistence of you and other TRA to ignore the existence of sex and other people’s sexual orientations.

        You are inventing problems over a meme you choose to misinterpret in order to frame yourself as the victim of hate, when all that happened was a bunch of people got tired of being called bigoted for having a sexuality that does not include everyone.

        Nobody has said that being less straight or more homosexual/bisexual is disgusting or inferior except you. Confront your own homophobic ideas before putting words in the mouths of others.

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          [–]adungitit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          You are actively arguing for other people’s sexualities not to be respected.

          I mean, so are you. Heterosexual people are not attracted to the same sex, homosexuals are not attracted to the opposite sex. Insisting that their sexuality should now include the sex that the whole term exists to exclude (and moreover, a term that also has a history of violence aimed against the people identifying with it) is invalidating. The only sexuality and gender that are to be respected are the ones that literally don't mean anything and can include whatever anyone wants. I don't think it's respectful in the least to take words used to define certain people targeted by violence and discrimination for being a certain way, and proclaim these words invalid and in fact, tools of violence by virtue of not including everyone and everything else under the sun. Actually, I'd call that the opposite of respectful.

          [–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          I think you're taking the super straight label to seriously. Moreover, you're ignoring the only reason super straight become a thing in the first place is because transactivists insist in changing the meaning of words and replacing sex with gender identity. Transactivists are the ones who are trying to make impossible to talk about attraction based in SEX rather than gender identity. Trans people are often the ones who are making their dating lifes harder by going after people with incompatible SEXual orientations.

          [–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          Yep, being lesbian or febfem is not transphobic. While transgender movement are calling lesbians transphobic for being homosexual and for something homosexual people can't control. And then they came for heterosexual people too.

          That is why this "super" movement appeared in the first place.

          And fact that gender movement is so outrageous about supersexualities - just shows all the hypocrisy. Gender movement is creating new sexualities every week, and saying all of them are valid, and appropriating old sexualities to change the meaning of the word - so it is very hard to find partner you want, if now anyone can be any sexuality as it is just "identity and choice" and not something innate like how it was before.

          [–]Moonbuggy 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

          Noone was saying trans people are "disgusting" just that their sexual orientation was towards a particular sex or both. Our whole bodies are sexed its not just a "genital preference" its not that someone is "less straight". As a SuperStraight woman I am friends with Transmen, Lesbians and other women but I don't want to have sex with any of them as I am sexually attracted to XY men who like to be XY men and have the biology I am attracted to: deep voice, big shoulders, tall, big hands etc etc. I am supportive of trans people. If a gay man doesn't find me sexually attractive I don't call him a SuperStraightPhobe or XXPhobe.

          [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (12 children)

          It literally is saying you are more straight than someone who would date a trans person. That’s the implication of super. You cheapen their identity through mere association with us. You hate us so much you degrade people just for being accepting.

          [–]Moonbuggy 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

          It is just clarifying exactly who I am sexually attracted to. Noone can force sexual attraction on anyone else that's not how it works. I am not sexually attracted to XX women however they identify and I like men who are happy being men because I love their biology and they are embracing it. What's wrong what that? TW reject their masculinity as they don't believe they are men so they are not sexually attractive to me. They obviously wouldn't want to be with a person who isn't sexually attracted to them, nobody wants that. We all want enthusiastic sexual partners who love us for who we are. We all have the same right to boundaries, consent and choice of who we have sex with.

          [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

          Literally none of that is contravened by what I said. In fact I said explicitly it isn’t transphobic to just not be attracted to trans people.

          By framing it as a different and superior sexuality, you are essentially saying someone is lesser for being attracted to trans people. It’s such deep animus that you lower others by mere association with us. And that’s on top of the audacity that some are now claiming membership in the lgbt community by virtue of being “super straight”. You could have just said you are straight and not attracted to trans people but instead you create a hierarchy that puts trans people so low that you devalue people merely for being accepting.

          [–]JollyPurple 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

          Look at it this way. There are now TWO types of sexualities. Neither is more better or superior to the other, just different.

          1. Genderality - sexual attraction based on which socially constructed gender created by patriarchy your partner and you identify with.

          2. Sexuality- sexual attraction based on the other person's sex.

          And then within each group are subgroups.

          Genderality - socially constructed gender based attraction.

          • straight - attraction based on one member of the couple having masculine cis gender identity and the other a feminine cis gender identity

          • gay - both members of the couple have a masculine socially constructed gender identity

          • lesbian - both members of the couple have a feminine socially constructed gender identity

          • bi - sexual attraction to both masculine and feminine socially constructed gender identities

          • pan - attraction to ALL socially constructed gender identities.

          Sexuality - sex-based attraction

          • superstraight- attraction to a person of the opposite SEX

          • supergay - same-sex attraction for males (SEX)

          • superlesbian - same-sex attraction for females (SEX)

          • superbi - sexual attraction to both SEXes

          There is no hierarchy here at all.

          Sexual attraction by nature is exclusive. These categories helps create clarity and simplicity when informing others. As the transgender community ALWAYS says, language evolves, things change meaning, and new words are created to change with society's changing perspectives. And society felt the need to create a distinction between genderality and sexuality. Which probably occurred, because like religion, not everyone believes in the same thing. Most people don't believe in biological essentialism and innate gender ideology like the transgender community does. You shouldn't force someone to convert to a religion just because you believe in it, and gender identity ideology is the same way.

          [–]emptiedriver 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

          It’s just an excuse to be transphobic. The whole thing is saying that being attracted to a trans person makes you less straight which is massively shitty to the straight people who are not averse to dating trans people

          But you're still straight, there is just a distinction for some people who will not be attracted to trans people. If you can agree there can be a sexual orientation that makes a distinction then how is that transphobic? No one is saying you can't be straight, or LGB, and still date trans people, so why is it shitty to them or the trans people they date? And if you agree there can also be those who aren't attracted to trans people, how do we refer to that category?

          Either that can be an orientation - by nature, you are not attracted - or it is just coincidental, even discriminatory, and they have not yet met the right trans person. If it's an orientation, they should be able to refer to their sexual nature and make it clear when seeking partners. If they are being transphobic, you are implying they may someday meet a trans person who they would date, even if they have never been attracted so far.

          Also - why is it disgusting to be less straight (or less LGB)? I don't know if that is what it has to mean, but if it did - aren't we past that? Some people may be more strict, some more flexible - like, it's all good, right? Honestly, it's just How You're Born. I probably wouldn't even qualify as a super myself, but I like the movement bc I think it help clarifies some of the confusion. I've always been bi and when I was young I used to think "well, everyone is really bi" but talking with older gay people helped me realize how hard it is when your sexuality is not accepted. It would have been easier for me to live as straight if I had grown up in a less accepting time, but that wasn't true for everyone. Why force expectations on people? Perhaps they know who they are.

          [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

          But you're still straight, there is just a distinction for some people who will not be attracted to trans people.

          The use of super creates a hiaerachy where being trans inclusive makes someone less straight.

          And if you agree there can also be those who aren't attracted to trans people, how do we refer to that category?

          Straight but not attracted to trans people or if you need a specialized term one that doesn’t create a hierarchy.

          Also - why is it disgusting to be less straight (or less LGB)?

          Never said it was. I said the idea is trans people are so disgusting ( wrong, gross, pick your insulting adjective of choice) that being trans inclusive lowers someone in the eyes of the “superstraight” they make a hierarchy and put themselves on top.

          [–]emptiedriver 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

          or if you need a specialized term one that doesn’t create a hierarchy...

          It's not a hierarchy, it's just an intensifier - I really don't think there's any reason to think it's meant to make someone better, just "more" straight or gay. You are the one adding the judgment to that. You could be "super into Chinese food" or "super tired" - it doesn't put you above or below anyone. It just describes state of things. A super straight man would be attracted to a woman who was AFAB and lived her whole life female. If she had been AMAB and was now female, he'd have to have a more flexible type of sexuality. But neither is a higher or lower type of sexuality, just more or less intensely straight.

          the idea is trans people are so disgusting... being trans inclusive lowers someone

          This is coming from you. I don't want to condescendingly tell you to talk to your therapist, but seriously, I do not see this at all.

          So is it just the word "super", then? If they had called themselves "bio straights" or "chromosexuals" you would have been fine with it? I pretty much think the whole thing started as an off-the-cuff joke, that gathered steam because there was a void that needed filling, so I doubt the name was given a lot of thought. It's just, "extreme straight."

          [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

          So is it just the word "super", then? If they had called themselves "bio straights" or "chromosexuals" you would have been fine with it?

          It would certainly at least be less of an issue since it doesn’t imply superiority or condescend to trans inclusive people like “super straight” does. Though extreme straight still has the same problems of saying someone is less straight for being trans inclusive.

          [–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          The kid who invented the term was being harassed on TikTok for not wanting to date trans women. The reason "super straight" was invented is because straight is somehow no longer good enough.

          [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

          Enjoy it while it lasts I suppose. We (trans people) are by and large winning this ideological war.

          [–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

          The only way you're "winning" is by banning speech. And no matter how hard you try, you can't shut up people who disagree.

          [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

          Are you though?

          Polling from 13 States Reveals Widespread Disapproval of “Gender Identity” Policies

          You've created the illusion of widespread agreement by removing posts and comments from the opposition on most major tech platforms or deplatforming the opposition altogether-- this is not 'winning the ideological war'.

          [–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          And anyone should trust this poll paid for by arguably the most scummy radfem group in the United States, through a polling group that almost exclusively serves republican interests, and somehow managed to include in their poll a 40-45%~ trump supporter margin in California, despite the state having half that in an actual trump-supporting population, because why exactly? As far as I can tell (and every link on that page is now purple for me), they don't list the actual methodology anywhere. The best we get is 'which presidential candidate do you support', which is already damning as is. And that's just California. At least there they managed to poll a majority of democrat voters. The 'nationwide' poll is even worse, with a 49/49 split (1.x% independent). And considering we can immediately throw about 95% of republican voters into the 'down with trans people' category, immediately the swing of overwhelming majority becomes 'republicans hate it but democrats are mixed'. Oh and 82% of people they polled were over 35. Eighty two. With 80% also being white, and 75% being middle class or higher. I don't have any clap emoji's so I need you to imagine them when I say: The. Poll. Is. Rigged.

          But while we're here on their site, let me find out who ELSE recommends Spry Research!

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Principles_Project

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_America_PAC

          https://www.nc.gop/

          Cumulus Media (Family Radio, Salem Media, Ben "Facts Man" Shapiro, many others. They're a LOT, if you want to dig into them be my guest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulus_Media_Networks)

          Herman Cain, the anti-masker who went to a trump rally, caught covid, and died.

          tl;dr, why in god's name do I care about this poll?

          [–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          Color me impressed. ;)

          [–]adungitit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          Most people who disagree with trans ideology are conservatives who are angry at people not performing their proper gender God/nature-given gender roles. People not believing in magical sex transformations is hardly the win that GC thinks it is when most of that is due to these people being conservatives and against everything really, including women's rights.

          load more comments (2 replies)

            [–]adungitit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Men's fetishes and misogyny winning over women's rights? Unheard of!

            [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

            Very late to the party, r/LGBS was banned a bit ago too--I'm disappointed to see both go. The subs were statement pieces, very much almost performance art. They were mostly conscientious and self-aware, more symbolic than anything. The fact that the fundraiser for Vancouver Rape Relief was shut down is beyond disappointing. A lot of people connected to one another who never would have otherwise, and a lot of dispelling of misinformation took place and continues to. A movement is set in motion, even if the venue is gone.

            [–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

            It's pure evil. I'm not surprised they also denied the rape shelter almost $7000. GoFundMe makes a ton of money off transition.

            [–]SilverSlippers 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

            Yeah. That pissed me off more than banning the sub, which was predictable. People can still donate directly but GoFundMe's have momentum. Hopefully everyone who gets their donation returned donates directly. Vancouver Rape Relief is one of the only remaining shelters in Canada that doesn't house males.

            [–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            I'm still pissed off about it. That was so much money, and it's doubtful even half will be made up by direct donations.

            [–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (30 children)

            hi worried

            I think it will be super gender conforming. I expect it will be super manipulated by the Right. It doesn't make for a working alliance that people might think it would be. They guys there will be ultimately super socially conservative and not down with the female gender non conformity espoused here.

            [–]strictly 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

            I think it will be super gender conforming. I expect it will be super manipulated by the Right. It doesn't make for a working alliance that people might think it would be. They guys there will be ultimately super socially conservative and not down with the female gender non conformity espoused here.

            The same way “woke” people think GC is an alt-right group of socially conservative homophobic straight gender conforming women. I don’t really put much value on what woke people think are “working alliances” as they tend to label people they disagree with as alt-right homophobes by default, which in this context means if a group is pro sexual consent for lesbians then woke people automatically labels that group alt-right lesbophobes.

            I didn’t see any homopbobia in the super straight reddit sub and officially they endorsed sexual consent for all sexual orientations. In contrast some woke subs have policies where they officially endorse calling lesbians bigots if they sexually exclude males. To me the official homophobia of woke groups is more concerning than the hypothetical homophobia woke people think super straight people might be hiding.

            You also assume super straight people must be socially conservative and anti gender non-conformity when the only thing you really know about them is their sexual orientation and how they are pro sexual consent. As a lesbian I am not attracted to males either and think that should be okay, and I am not socially conservative nor I am gender conforming for it.

            [–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (27 children)

            That's a possibility. There were tons of young guys there who I'm sure were thinking primarily about their own dicks. But I also saw a lot of young straight guys say they had no idea how bad lesbians had it. I also saw even some self-identified conservative men vow to stand up for lesbians. That doesn't make them all of a sudden change their worldview, but this is an area where they may feel some solidarity. I think most conservatives realize that they've lost the battle on homosexuality, anyway. They recognize gay and lesbian people exist and shouldn't be persecuted or put through conversion therapy for their orientation.

            [–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

            Feeling protective of women is a traditional masculine role. That fits well within conservative politics. Real men protecting women from perverted sissy men in dresses is a perspective on the right. I think think there is some commonality between them. When I see a masculine radical feminist denigrating femininity in men I think there is a parallel with a masculine conservative male denigrating femininity in men, it's about disgust and moral disapproval. But I don't think the alliance is very strong.

            The self identified super straight males will likely feel transactional. "The women owe us one." They may find lesbianism erotic. They also likely expect gender conformity in women too. They expect traditional roles from everyone.

            The movement would have little to offer gay men and likely functionally hostile.

            How are you anyway?

            Where's your head on things recently?

            [–]adungitit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

            it's about disgust and moral disapproval.

            Except one is disgust at men performing the inferior subjugating role that God/nature has created women to perform (a belief held by traditional and gender nonconforming men in equal amounts), the other is disgust over a mode of presentation almost equated with womanhood that exists solely to normalise women being objectified and treated as sex objects for the consumption of misogynistic men. Men who get their rocks off to crossdressing and being sissies are not giving the middle finger to gender roles or rejecting male supremacy one bit, they have the same views as your average male supremacist, except they jack off to something different. Fetish =/= political views.

            [–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

            I'll take the benign sexism of conservative men over outright attacks by the left. Ideally, they'd see women as equals, but you can't have everything. Most liberals don't really believe in equality, either.

            I wouldn't say it's a strong alliance, but I also don't believe every conservative is out to remake the USA in the image of The Handmaid's Tale. Only the most extreme are like that.

            How are you anyway? Where's your head on things recently?

            Eh, I'm okay. The political atmosphere is depressing, to be honest. I'm not on Reddit much anymore, but a constant stream of bad news causes me some anxiety. Good to see you again. You should come by this sub more often. We need more discussion. I'm glad this thread is so active, it almost feels like the old debate sub.

            [–]adungitit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

            benign sexism of conservative men

            Excuse me wat? "Benign"? Are you for real?

            [–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

            I'll take the benign sexism of conservative men over outright attacks by the left. Ideally, they'd see women as equals, but you can't have everything. Most liberals don't really believe in equality, either.

            I can understand you having that feeling yet I think you're still going to end up at odds with the conservative men.

            I wouldn't say it's a strong alliance, but I also don't believe every conservative is out to remake the USA in the image of The Handmaid's Tale. Only the most extreme are like that.

            Sure most people are not extreme. But anyone gender variant, non conforming is going to come into conflict with conservative political thought.

            Eh, I'm okay. The political atmosphere is depressing, to be honest.

            But you didn't want Trump to win?

            Though I can see you likely have issues with the Dems and trans issues.

            You mean in general? These are seemingly angry times.

            I'm not on Reddit much anymore, but a constant stream of bad news causes me some anxiety. Good to see you again. You should come by this sub more often. We need more discussion. I'm glad this thread is so active, it almost feels like the old debate sub.

            Yeah I stopped using reddit for gender talk. There's some subs still going but, the old one scratched an itch.

            reddit, social media can be addictive, some things aren't well discussed, like gender. I would spend even more time debating, I enjoy it, it's stimulating but it can use a lot of time.

            How has the sub been? What are the participants like?

            I've had a few questions in my mind I'd ask of the old sub again. "Who do you identify with in public life, on gender?" "What are the identifiable political positions on gender?"

            I think the last time we chatted you stating I had a fetish. I was thinking you might have thought I was away in a "huff." More I was drawn away to work and things. Regarding the "fetish" theory, I always think it's more complicated than that. As if fetish is a way of not thinking about it.

            Anyway, here in the UK one of the only two crossdressers in the UK media said they want to go by "she" now, Eddie Izzard, but she won't complain about misgendering.. I always liked their comedy but I never felt completely with their understanding of their crossdressing.

            But it's kind of telling that male crossdressing, especially straight male crossdressing, non conformity, in the media is so...rare. I guess there are reasons for that.

            I don't see that much, what I would call, female masculinity in popular media. But it's more common in the street I'd say. There is how people are as populations, how they appear in the media and how they appear in public places. All three can be different. If that makes sense.

            I'm rambling now. lol

            [–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

            I can understand you having that feeling yet I think you're still going to end up at odds with the conservative men.

            Oh, I agree. I'm not a fan of conservative men or liberal men at this point. And moderates seem to have disappeared off the face of the earth.

            Sure most people are not extreme. But anyone gender variant, non conforming is going to come into conflict with conservative political thought.

            I'm not sure, to be honest. You may remember I grew up in a conservative small town. Mostly evangelical. I'd wager over 90% Republican. I did have some bad experiences there, but it wasn't overwhelming. People liked me. I had friends. I felt accepted by most people. Now if I'd been a GNC male, it would likely have been different. I think conservatives give more leeway to masculine women than feminine men.

            But you didn't want Trump to win?

            God, no. Trump is a sociopath. The trans issue wasn't enough to get me to hope that he won. I voted, but I left the presidential slot blank. I'm not in a swing state, so it didn't matter. I'm still a registered Democrat, but I plan to unaffiliate when I get around to it. I'd rather be independent. I don't trust the Democrats.

            Yeah I stopped using reddit for gender talk. There's some subs still going but, the old one scratched an itch.

            Reddit's kind of dead. All the subs I liked were banned or inactive. There's still r/gendertroubles, if you want to drop by. It's not that active, though. I'm mostly still there to participate in the anti-kink and anti-porn subs.

            How has the sub been? What are the participants like?

            A little more active, but we need more quality QT posters. Constant threads asking GC to prove that biology is real get tiresome.

            I've had a few questions in my mind I'd ask of the old sub again. "Who do you identify with in public life, on gender?" "What are the identifiable political positions on gender?"

            Please post them! We need more discussion. Or you don't want to post them, I will. Just let me know. We can always use more threads.

            I think the last time we chatted you stating I had a fetish. I was thinking you might have thought I was away in a "huff." More I was drawn away to work and things. Regarding the "fetish" theory, I always think it's more complicated than that. As if fetish is a way of not thinking about it.

            No worries. I didn't even remember saying that. Fetish is maybe not the right word. Sexual kink? Autogynephilia? I don't pretend to know exactly how it works for you, but I know it colors your take on things. It affects your worldview. I also saw that about Eddie Izzard. I'm not even sure what's up with him. I think honestly he's just trying to keep up with the times. "Transvestites" are out and "trans women" are in.

            I don't see that much, what I would call, female masculinity in popular media. But it's more common in the street I'd say. There is how people are as populations, how they appear in the media and how they appear in public places. All three can be different. If that makes sense.

            Hey, don't apologize for rambling. I can talk about this stuff all day. Where I live, I don't even seen female masculinity on the street. I've seen it like a handful of times since I moved to my current city. I never saw it in my hometown or at college. It's almost invisible in the media. Most GNC women are now being depicted as trans. GNC men are never just casually on the street and only depicted in limited ways in the media, and then mostly only as performers, like drag queens.

            [–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

            Oh, I agree. I'm not a fan of conservative men or liberal men at this point. And moderates seem to have disappeared off the face of the earth.

            There has been a change in recent politics in that moderate debate on topics was hard to find. One of the reasons I liked the old debates subreddit. It was actually people who disagreed and came to debate.

            I'm not sure, to be honest. You may remember I grew up in a conservative small town. Mostly evangelical. I'd wager over 90% Republican. I did have some bad experiences there, but it wasn't overwhelming. People liked me. I had friends. I felt accepted by most people. Now if I'd been a GNC male, it would likely have been different. I think conservatives give more leeway to masculine women than feminine men.

            Yeah there's a background dynamic going on there. Gender isn't equal is in a perfect mirror and gender non conformity does not appear in the same way.

            Women, including gnc women, aren't judged to be sexual threat that men are. And men are more of a sexual threat. In that they are more likely to be sexual criminals.

            Are gnc males more of a sexual threat than conforming males. Kind of a big question.

            A little more active, but we need more quality QT posters. Constant threads asking GC to prove that biology is real get tiresome.

            Please post them! We need more discussion. Or you don't want to post them, I will. Just let me know. We can always use more threads.

            I feel like I'd stumble in needlessly antagonise at the moment. And I was never full QT enough.

            I'm working on a list of the popular political gender models I'd like to make into a political map.

            No worries. I didn't even remember saying that. Fetish is maybe not the right word. Sexual kink? Autogynephilia? I don't pretend to know exactly how it works for you, but I know it colors your take on things. It affects your worldview.

            I don't think I am woman, I don't think I identical to the average woman in desire.

            But I do think my desires are naturally connected to gender in some way. It's both sexual and identity expression for me.

            Ha, I kind of want to say "But look at this dress/make up/fashion worried19, isn't it lovely?" It's not that I think you ought to personally enjoy it but see what others like about it.

            I've always made the case that "gender performance/role/expression" reversal is viewed as perversion. Which to me is illuminating.

            A point with "Autogynephilia" theory is that it would likely imply autoandrophilia. I'm not sure how you feel about that. But I'm not a Blanchardian.

            Hey, don't apologize for rambling. I can talk about this stuff all day. Where I live, I don't even seen female masculinity on the street. I've seen it like a handful of times since I moved to my current city. I never saw it in my hometown or at college. It's almost invisible in the media. Most GNC women are now being depicted as trans. GNC men are never just casually on the street and only depicted in limited ways in the media, and then mostly only as performers, like drag queens.

            How big is the city?

            Essentialist me would say small communities are not going to have much gnc behaviour at all. Because it's naturally rare and the community does not have enough momentum to form. Where as in cities they can at least congregate and find each other. Though that's usually as adjunct to gay communities. Though of course I know we both identify as straight.

            Have you tried to reach out to any gnc women?

            Have you changed your mind on anything? Has your model of gender changed?

            [–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

            Are gnc males more of a sexual threat than conforming males. Kind of a big question.

            I don't think inherently. I believe GNC males are more of a threat to the hierarchical order. Men are seen as superior, and femininity is seen as inferior. So for a man to perform femininity means that he is giving up his superior status. Society is disturbed by that. But as far as sexual threats, I don't know. Highly GNC males are viewed as effeminate gay men, and effeminate gay men are seen as weak. Although gay men have also been tagged as child molesters and corrupting influences in the past, so maybe it's not that clear cut. I don't think heterosexual GNC men are part of the public's consciousness, though, or maybe only on the periphery.

            I feel like I'd stumble in needlessly antagonise at the moment. And I was never full QT enough.

            I'll post them if it's all right with you. I've been trying to think of more ideas for threads.

            I'm working on a list of the popular political gender models I'd like to make into a political map.

            That sounds like an interesting project. It would make for a good discussion topic once you get finished with it.

            But I do think my desires are naturally connected to gender in some way. It's both sexual and identity expression for me.

            But are you turned on by seeing yourself as a woman and/or as feminine? I think that's what autogynephilia is. I'm not really a believer in Blanchard, though.

            Ha, I kind of want to say "But look at this dress/make up/fashion worried19, isn't it lovely?" It's not that I think you ought to personally enjoy it but see what others like about it.

            Ha, I'm afraid the appeal is lost on me. I can't understand what people find attractive about it. I just see it as socially harmful.

            I've always made the case that "gender performance/role/expression" reversal is viewed as perversion. Which to me is illuminating.

            More with men than women, it seems. Because males are associated more with fetishes and paraphilias. I don't think extremely GNC women are viewed as fetishists ever. We might be seen as ugly, freakish, try-hards, pretenders, confused, or what have you, but I don't think we're seen as perverse or threatening. Or at least not nearly as often as men are.

            A point with "Autogynephilia" theory is that it would likely imply autoandrophilia. I'm not sure how you feel about that.

            I think it exists. I believe the new population of "gay trans men" include autoandrophiles among them. But not exclusively. There are people in that category trying to escape womanhood for other reasons.

            How big is the city?

            Don't want to doxx myself, but between 50,000 and 75,000. It's a small city. But there are bigger ones within a day's drive. I haven't reached out to the gay community at all, so it's possible there are more GNC women here than I'm encountering just randomly on the street.

            Have you tried to reach out to any gnc women?

            Nah, truth be told, I don't want to in this political climate. It wouldn't be good for my mental health considering most GNC women are now disavowing womanhood. I don't want to run the risk. At one point I thought I might like to meet them, but not really anymore. I'll just stick to my male friends.

            Have you changed your mind on anything? Has your model of gender changed?

            I guess I've become more GC over time? I was really GC-leaning for quite a while, trying to straddle both sides. I'm still quite moderate, but the banning of our old sub really "peaked" me, as the GCs say. I'm still a gender abolitionist. I wish gender would be eradicated. But at the moment I'm most concerned with things like child transition and the fact that media and corporations are trying to cancel anyone who doesn't agree with the party line.

            [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

            Seems transphobic. Glad they’re banned now

            [–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

            I had no issue with it at first. I have no issue with the idea that people are not attracted to trans people. But the sub became transphobic, like statements like trans women aren't women and a bunch of other anti-trans statements. I think the very reason they emphasized TWAW and TWAM is to avoid getting banned, but transphobia and other forms of bigotry is not welcome on Reddit. Refusing to date trans people is not bigotry. Saying trans women aren't women and trans men aren't men is bigotry.

            [–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

            Were you on the sub? I didn't see transphobia. By that I mean hatred of trans people. The mods were very careful trying to keep that stuff out. But it wouldn't have mattered. Reddit was never going to let it stand because it's not the narrative they agree with. The old debate sub was strictly moderated, and we still got the boot, despite two trans women moderators and tons of trans members.

            [–]adungitit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

            Any woman should run in the opposite direction of any man who takes pride in being straight, just as they should from any men talking about how sex positive he is. Men don't care about you, they care about passing off their fetishes as politics and strength of character. Some will try to pass it off as protecting women, then start whining when women don't reward them with sex for it. It's always going to be a horrible misogynistic cesspool and you'd think that women would learn this by now. Being confidently "straight" generally means going through the endless mountain of misogynistic straight porn so that any alternatives have simply not had time to get on your radar, or having patriarchal beliefs about women strong enough that you refuse to even consider anyone else being placed in that role. Ironically this sexuality is more in line with genderism: these men have a fetish for misogynistic feminine caricatures of women that they've been sold by other men, not for actual women the way you might see in lesbians, hence the extreme hatred they harbour for women despite said sexual attraction. Male "heterosexuality" is very much divorced from an attraction to women, it's either a fetish for lifeless caricatures that they've been trained to rub themselves to all their lives, or it's violence and entitlement aimed at social inferiors.

            [–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

            Well, the movement was started by a kid on TikTok who was getting called transphobic for not wanting to date trans women. I'm not saying male heterosexuality is unproblematic. Clearly pornification is a huge social problem for males as well as females. But this movement was straight men standing up against sexual entitlement, just as lesbians and gay men have done in the past.

            You're right that these men are not feminists. It's not like we can count on them to have our backs. I hope I didn't give that impression. But it was still nice to see solidarity. There was a ton of diversity on the sub, and a general feeling of support for women and minority sexual orientations on this issue.

            [–]adungitit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

            Oh boo-hoo, some straight man thinks he's a victim of persecution, I guess this deserves a whole movement now.

            this movement was straight men standing up against sexual entitlement

            By waving their dicks around talking about how turbo ultra straight they are. What does that remind me of?

            it was still nice to see solidarity.

            Misogynistic men coincidentally getting mad at something superficially similar to what feminists get mad over is not solidarity. When will women stop running back to lick men's boots the moment men just get distracted from oppressing them for one second? If you're a misogynist, then your opposition to trans rights is meaningless. Views based in religious worship of patriarchal hierarchies are just as oppressive as trans ideologies.

            [–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

            I mean, it was started by a 16 year old kid. Where's the proof that he's some awful misogynist? There was nothing in the original video that pointed to that.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=191d2iCBfik

            Were you on the Super Straight sub? It wasn't just straight guys. There were also huge numbers of women and non-straight people. Gay men and lesbians and bisexuals. I didn't say I was licking anyone's boots, just that it was nice to see people come together in solidarity.

            [–]adungitit 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

            Um, you do realise that teenage boys are extremely misogynistic, right?

            [–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

            Where is the evidence that this particular teenage boy is some horrible misogynistic asshole?

            It doesn't sound to me like you were even on the Super Straight sub, but regardless, it doesn't seem like we're getting much out of this discussion.

            [–]adungitit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

            Because teenage boys are generally misogynistic, especially teenage boys waving their straightness in your face? "Where is the evidence that every single man is misogynistic?" I dunno, maybe because almost all of them are and that's why we live in a patriarchy?

            [–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Are you upset because the kid is straight? Or because the kid is male? I don't get it.