All: Disclosure and Consent

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (241 children)

No, trans people do not have an ethical duty to disclose their trans status anymore than people of non-obvious racial, ethnic, marital, or religious status have a duty to disclose said status to potential sexual partners. It is up to the person who has such preferences to disclose them, and then trans or other people have an ethical obligation to not sleep with them.

It is safer for trans people to disclose in certain areas and safer for trans people to not disclose in other areas (such as places where being trans is a crime)

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

No, trans people do not have an ethical duty to disclose their trans status anymore than people of non-obvious racial, ethnic, marital, or religious status have a duty to disclose said status to potential sexual partners.

Are you really serious that married people (with & without kids) "do not have an ethical duty to disclose" their marital status to potential sexual partners? Sounds like you support spousal cheating & are entirely on board with all the damage that duplicitous married men over time have done to all the women & gay men they've enticed into being their lovers by hiding or lying about their marital status.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (21 children)

Nope thats their business. If you care about not dating married people then its on you to ask them if they’re married

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

You don’t think it’s deceitful of them to hide their wedding ring, or to lie and say they are divorced?

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (18 children)

Lying would be deceitful

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Jesus Christ I really think you’re a long con troll. I have to believe this. Otherwise you’re actually terrifying.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Applying heims logic to anything else is really scary.

It’s ok to secretly remove a condom because she didn’t ask if I kept it on. She shouldn’t assume I won’t ejaculate in her.

It’s okay that I took this money from the wallet on the table because they left it on the table without specifying they don’t want anyone taking money from it.

It’s okay to drop six tabs of acid at the school musical recital because nobody said they’d prefer it if I didn’t.

Screaming for hours in the museum is ok. If visitors didn’t want to hear that they should have checked to make sure no screaming lunatics were in the museum.

I’m a hospital janitor giving out dilaudid. I put on scrubs and nobody asked me if I was a real doctor so it’s their fault they are dead of an overdose, not mine.

The building is on fire and it is the responsibility of the kindergarteners to ensure their preschool isn’t on fire so they can save themselves.

I purposely fed you food you are deathly allergic to. Your fault for not checking to make sure I didn’t add peanuts. Just because I cooked for you specifically you think you can just expect me to disclose my recipe?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That’s actually something I wasn’t even considering. When you’re so quick to make justifications for one, how do you stop it from spiraling into going way too far and justifying the unthinkable? Even making it easier for others to justify things you think are wrong? If trans people become the exception to every rule while they also make it possible to not even have to take a fucking step in the direction of transition to be considered trans, they’re setting us up for trouble. But at least they get validation lol

They get so upset about being associated with pedophilia and sexual assault (understandably so).

So why the fuck do they think it’s a good idea to be so staunchly supportive of putting themselves in a situation where they understand that them being trans can turn something that would’ve otherwise been consensual sex into something that borders (or is-imo) rape. Maybe it’s rude to say, but frankly it’s just fucking stupid to openly be pro “stealthing”. It makes everyone who isn’t a part of their community look at trans people sideways. Even people who otherwise don’t care think not disclosing is fucked up. It’s like they want to make things worse for themselves so they can continue to be the victim. But it can’t be just that because apparently there really are many TW just casually raping people everyday. So it’s not just an argument- it’s a mentality. And it’s a mentality that is encouraged and accepted among their community.

Fucking awful to think about.

And the fact that the lgb community have nothing to do with any of this and have to be dragged into it just adds an extra layer of bullshit

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

why the fuck do they think it’s a good idea to be so staunchly supportive of putting themselves in a situation where they understand that them being trans can turn something that would’ve otherwise been consensual sex into something that borders (or is-imo) rape

My guess? It’s mostly men doing this. Men who knowingly want to rape but fear the risks of being caught too much.

Blur the lines so much that the victim is unsure if she will be attacked for saying a male raped her, unsure of whether or not she was raped just like “what did you drink? What were you wearing?” victim blaming made women unsure if it was their fault because they got drunk or wore a skirt. It blurs the lines between virtue and mindless “be nice” kindergarten politics allowing predators to slip under the radar, or even be obvious and shielded by the trans banner (like than vaid-menon guy who says little girls are kinky

They don’t pushback against pedophiles because they, the pedophiles, are the movement. Too much power was handed over as nicety and muh basic human rights and the predators moved to the top like they often do. The mindless supporters prefer to turn a blind eye and keep playing nice than to admit they supported a dangerous movement.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

No all those other situations have it implicit not to do those things without permission. Although dropping acid is fine

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How the heck is dropping acid fine?!!!

And why is there not an implicit expectation that your romantic or sexual partner be truthful about their biological sex? I mean besides that some trans identified people don't want to hear a no for an answer.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But the implicit lack of attraction to men in a desired partner doesn’t matter if a male person wants to be seen as a woman and have sex with a straight man?

Also, dropping acid around children is fucked. For someone who preaches as though they have moral superiority you sure say stuff indicating a massive lack of moral or care for others.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (7 children)

I mean you’re the group that allies itself with the right in order to take peoples rights away and make them less safe. So I have the same opinion of GC

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Also- why are you even bringing this up when we are literally talking about consent?

Like you support rape (if and only if it’s rape by deception, and then only if the rapist is trans), but sure I guess I’m just as awful for thinking females deserve equality lol

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Let me guess, radfems occasionally allying with conservatives says something about radfems in general, but this doesn't say anything about transwomen in general, right?

A recently published study on LGBTQ political leanings finds that transgender individuals are “significantly less liberal” than even cisgender men.

That's how it works in Heimdekledi Land, right?

Radfems sometimes ally with the right but you are the right in many cases, lol.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There’s a drastic difference between attempting to preserve rights you’ve already fought for and trying to take rights away from someone.

Transwomen took rights from women. Women want to take those rights back. We are, once again, not the same.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's TRA who are changing laws and policies behind everyone's back whithout any care about how they could affect anyone else. It's also TRA who constantly send rape and death threaths to dissenting women. It's also TRA who are burning books and suppressing dissenting voices. It's also TRA who are weaponising suicide to get what they want. It's also TRA who have got people fired for stating that sex is real and it does matter. It's also TRA who are keen on ignoring everyone else's boundaries. It's TRA who are advocating for the chemical castration of children.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So taking off the wedding ring and going to a singles event is okay, it’s up to everyone who interacts with them at the event to ask if they are married? Seems stupid.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

I think how it seems to you says more about you then it does the situation

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, I'm sure cheaters are going to be completely honest about their married status./s

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (180 children)

“Why or why not?”

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (179 children)

Because people don’t have the right to have their preferences followed without first disclosing those preferences. Do people of jewish heritage have an ethical duty to disclose that heritage to all potential sexual partners on the chance that she might sleep with someone who wouldn’t want to sleep with jewish women?

[–]worried19 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (98 children)

I mean, if I'm dating a man, isn't it reasonable to expect him to have a penis?

It just seems bizarre to say that I should have to announce up front that I want a partner with a penis.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 9 fun2 insightful - 8 fun3 insightful - 9 fun -  (97 children)

Trans men do have penises though. You mean to say that you expect a man that you’re interested in to have a penis of a certain type. Also you don’t have to announce it but remember that if you assume and you’re wrong you shouldn’t get mad at the other person, you should just tell them that it isn’t going to work out and leave.

Reasonable is subjective

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

you obviously are not defining "penis" in a way that most people accept.

If, as you say, "reasonable is subjective" then it is perfectly reasonable for someone who subjectively concludes they were misled to be upset. Disclose, be honest and up-front. It will save a lot of grief for everyone.

[–]worried19 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (94 children)

"Bottom surgery" for trans men is incredibly rare, though. The vast, vast majority of trans men have their normal, unaltered vaginas.

I'm not saying I'd get mad. That's not my style. But it seems like it would be a waste of time for both of us.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Doesn’t even matter that bottom surgery is rare. A neophallus is still not a penis lol

[–]worried19 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

True, but I'm trying to work with Heim where he or she is at.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fair enough lol

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 3 insightful - 8 fun3 insightful - 7 fun4 insightful - 8 fun -  (2 children)

She

[–]worried19 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks. I wasn't sure, and I always feel weird about using "they" if that's not someone's preference.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 8 fun1 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 8 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah it is. You’re not in charge of denoting what is or is not a penis.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know a penis isn’t made out of vagina and arm skin lol

It’s not a penis. It doesn’t look or function like one at all. It’s obviously not a penis lol. We can tell just by looking. We can tell just by hearing a description.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (85 children)

Okay then save time and say you’re only interested in guys with dicks that match whatever your preferences are.

[–]worried19 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (84 children)

So you are saying I have to announce it. I've got a partner anyway, so I hope I'll never have to deal with the dating scene, but I can't imagine needing to specify. Plus if I did write "I only want to date men with dicks" on a dating profile, I'd be accused of bigotry. You really can't win with some of the QT crowd.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (83 children)

I mean your preferences being honored doesn’t mean people won’t judge you.

[–]worried19 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (82 children)

So I'm basically a bigot who deserves to be judged for not wanting to sexually interact with vaginas?

I'm not attracted to vaginas. I don't want to have sex with someone who has a vagina. I want a man who has a working penis with testicles and that is able to get erect and is able to ejaculate semen. That's a core part of my sexuality right there. Why should I be shamed for that? I'd not saying trans men are bad people. I just don't want to fuck them.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Reasonable is subjective

Say that again.

[–]FlanJam 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Because people don’t have the right to have their preferences followed without first disclosing those preferences.

I dont want to dogpile, but it needs to be said: Lack of a 'NO' is not a 'YES"

edit for clarity

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (5 children)

I mean obviously

[–]FlanJam 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm glad you agree but your original post said otherwise, which is why I pushed back.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

I did not say otherwise

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

We can agree to disagree on that. I think your top post speaks for itself.

[–]grixitperson 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (38 children)

If someone says that they like a particular sex, that is the preference. If the other person is not actually that sex, but merely trans, they must disclose.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (37 children)

They have to state that preference though, including the fact that the don't consider trans people to be their identified sexes

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (30 children)

So why was superstraight such a problem? It was exactly that.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (29 children)

Because the implication was transphobic

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

Doing exactly what you suggested is transphobic?

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (21 children)

No doing it in a transphobic way is transphobic

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

So what’s the non transphobic way to do exactly what you said, lol?

[–]BiologyIsReal 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Stating boundaries is transphobic? Why so many trans people want to have sex with "transphobes", anyway?

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

If you state those boundaries in transphobic terms, then yes its transphobic

[–]worried19 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

But you implied elsewhere that stating the preference at all means that someone should be judged. If I only want to date men who have penises, I'm supposed to say so, but then I'm also transphobic for saying so? Is there any acceptable way to state that I don't want to have sex with people who have vaginas?

By the way, I'm still curious. You didn't answer me earlier. What is your sexual orientation?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are you serious? Lmao

[–]grixitperson 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

No, that's a given.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

What’s a given?

[–]grixitperson 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That a person who expresses preference in a partiular sex, means thsat sex and not an imitation.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 8 fun2 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 8 fun -  (2 children)

Not everyone agrees with the view that trans people are an imitation of their identified sex. If you feel that they are, then the onus is on you to make that opinion and preference known

[–]BiologyIsReal 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Most people don't think you can change sex, though.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (33 children)

Is sexuality a preference, rather than innate, to you?

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (32 children)

Both, but in my view sexuality isn’t based on binary sex status, but rather on observable physical traits. No one is attracted to people based on chromosomes for instance, because chromosomes aren’t directly perceivable in everyday life.

Edit: Maybe a biologist with a very niche kink?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

What percentage of people do you think have genitals that correspond to their chromosomes?

My point being- most people’s outer appearance is indicative of their chromosomes. So I think people assume sex correctly something like 99% of the time.

So us not technically being attracted to chromosomes doesn’t mean we aren’t attracted to what chromosomes correlate to the overwhelming majority of the time.

So while I agree that someone can look at a trans person that they don’t know is trans and be attracted to them- it is because they assume they are the sex they appear to be.

However, knowledge that they are the opposite sex than they were assumed to be is easily more than enough to nullify that attraction.

Not just because of stigma or bias or fear or whatever, but because someone can genuinely not feel attracted to or comfortable with sleeping with a trans person. It’s that simple.

I genuinely do not feel comfortable with the idea of sleeping with a trans person, even post op, and my reasoning has nothing to do with my ideology and everything to do with the technicalities and realities of neo genitals.

You can dismiss what I’m saying as bigotry- but even if I am a bigot, i still have a sexual boundary

What justification is there for that boundary not being respected?

I understand you think we should have to ask- but the fact is that trans people make up such a minute portion of the population that I don’t think that’s a reasonable demand. As I said in the other post- if you know something about you (or even something about your preferences sexually) can be a dealbreaker for the overwhelming majority of people (and we can prove this to be the case with trans people), I think it is your responsibility to disclose.

A married man lies about being single and a woman sleeps with him. He was wrong. I think we can all agree on that. We don’t tell the woman she should have asked. She had no reason to. It’s reasonable to assume she thought he was single.

It’s reasonable to assume someone who looks female is female. So if that’s not the case, it’s the responsibility of the male who looks female to be honest. Just as it would be the responsibility of the married man to be honest about being married. He kept being married a secret because he wanted to get laid. The TW would have kept being male a secret for the same reason. Why is it okay for the TW?

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (22 children)

You don’t have the right to have unexpressed preferences honored. It takes six seconds to ask if someone is trans, you all can expend the minute amount of effort and talk to a potential romantic partner about your preferences. Because I’m not going to act like transphobia is the default worldview and should be assumed of all people that I meet.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

yo u don’t have the right to have unexpressed preferences honored

That’s some really rapey rhetoric if you think about it.

Like, before sex is someone really supposed to list off every single thing they don’t want, and if they don’t, they lose the right to say no to unwanted anal, or being urinated on, or the right to change their minds about something they had previously agreed to?

Thats absolutely horrifying.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (8 children)

Its also not what I said. Why would anyone lose the right to say no?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They lose their right to say no when they aren’t told ahead of time there may be circumstances they’d say no to…

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

When they lose the right to have undisclosed preferences respected.

That’s what you said.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

It’s not a preference nor is it bigotry. It’s a sexuality. Sexuality is not transphobic and you calling it so is incredibly homophobic (and whatever the equivalent is for heterosexuals) and rapey.

I’ve never blocked someone but I may have to block you because I really have never seen someone fight so hard to support sexual assault. It’s disturbing.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (10 children)

It’s not sexual assault anymore than its sexual assault for a jewish person to not disclose their jewishness to a potential sexual partner on the chance that they might be an antisemite. The fact that you think it’s different doesn’t mean it is. We don’t have to assume transphobia being acceptable as the default state of affairs. If someone had an issue with certain groups then its up to them to male that preference known

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Actually, let me ask you:

A guy is into tying women up during sex.

He hooks up with some woman, and as they’re having sex, he ties her up. Without asking first. And she gets upset.

Who is wrong?

He’s not raping her. She consented to sex, and was enjoying herself before. She may not have consented to kinky sex, but she didn’t specify that she wasn’t open to kinky sex.

What if she’s okay with being tied up, but she needs to know ahead of time. So she’s not upset that he tied her up, just that she wasn’t expecting it. Is what he did okay now?

Why or why not?

I know tying someone up is not the same as being trans, but your assertion is that being trans isn’t a big deal. And neither is tying someone up during sex, so please indulge me.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve already addressed this and you’re just going to ignore it because you can’t counter what I said.

We’re done. Maybe someone else has the energy to watch you justify sexual assault and try to shame us for recongnizing it- I don’t.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

What is a non-obvious racial or ethnic status?

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (8 children)

I mean being jewish or being considered “black” for those whose appearances don’t match what is commonly conceived of as “black” appearances

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (7 children)

You're advocating a return to the one-drop rule? What do you think race is, Heimdekledi? And being Jewish doesn't mean the same thing to all people. Unlike sex, which we all observe easily and unconsciously, every day of our lives, about people whose racial or ethnic identity may vary based on location.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (6 children)

No, the discussion was that if because a racist might exists who wouldn’t want to unknowingly sleep with people whom they would consider a part of a group that they hate, should people whom consider themselves black for reasons of ancestry be forced to disclose the identity before every sexual encounter?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I’ve asked before, and you never address it so I’ll ask again and see if you do: where are you getting this from?

The discussion about TW and stealth/disclosure is pretty common knowledge. As I kept saying, TW know that there is an incredibly high possibility that any potential partner will not be open to dating them- solely and specifically because they are trans.

Can you disprove this? Can you show us that that’s not the case and the majority of people are actually open to sleeping with trans people?

My point being: you’re making this argument as if Jewish people and black people being commonly considered undesirable sex partners is a thing. As if there’s some debate going on about whether or not it’s gay/straight/acceptable etc to sleep with a Jewish/black woman. There’s not. There’s just fucking not and your refusal to deal with that so you can defend trans people committing rape is astonishing.

If a racist is openly so and a Jewish or lack person knowingly deceived them they’d be wrong. However there is no reason to assume that any/most men they meet will have an aversion to them. There’s not even a reason to assume most people they meet will be racist. The situation is not the same for TW. It’s just not.

A Jewish or black woman has the same genitals as a white woman. A TW does not and can not. For that (and safety) alone, they should disclose. Even if you think the other issues aren’t things that should be considered. You can’t give consent to have sex with genitals you don’t know you’re about to have sex with.

Bottom line- if you know that there is something about you that could reasonably potentially be a deal breaker, it is your responsibility to disclose. If you don’t, you are literally putting your desire for sexual gratification over someone else’s right to informed consent. Even if that’s not outright rape, it’s sexual violation and it’s not okay.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

No, why would they? These hypothetical white skinned people who all identify as black only sleep with white people and need to assume they are all white supremacists until proven otherwise, in the interests of preserving white supremacists' purity?

You think this is a good analogy?