Both: In light of recent events. In what context is Voyeurism and Indecent Exposure acceptable? Is there a rational justification for making an exception for males who claim to be women?

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T22:16:52+00:00

Statistically, you as a transwomen are more likely to murder someone than be murdered yourself.

This is wildly untrue and you should be ashamed.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T22:58:27+00:00

No.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-17T04:18:18+00:00

At least I said sorry if he found it hurtful, which he didn’t.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-12T13:00:49+00:00

You are the ones actively campaigning to prevent us from receiving the near universally agreed medical care we need, or the ability to access necessary services, or to minimize discrimination against us. You are arguing for us to be third class citizens, no matter how you try to church it up.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T23:17:01+00:00

The data isn’t convincing. You just want to pretend you have statistics to support your bigotry.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-01T10:45:32+00:00

You can discriminate same way against (natal) women.

Sex is protected in both housing and medical administration federally. As is age, disability, race, legitimacy, and many other categories. Gender identity is not. Only in employment do we have federal protection due to the Harris funeral home case.

That is a lie.

It absolutely is not. There was a study done that indicated an approximate loss of 10 percent performance in endurance events, putting hormone controlled trans women on par with cis women. As well as documented muscle loss through transition and a known correlation of presence of testosterone and maintenance of muscle mass. It’s absolutely baseless to claim we can compete with men. You could quibble about whether we can compete with natal women but it’s absolutely baseless to claim we are even comparable to men athletically.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-01T10:13:35+00:00

In America it is legal to discriminate against trans people in housing. It is also legal to refuse to give a trans person even non-trans related medical care.

Most places do not have third facilities meaning that it is essentially impossible to safely spend an extended period most places without using gender appropriate facilities for trans women as we are absolutely unsafe in men’s facilities. The only time I’ve been physically attacked since transition personally was in a men’s room.

Due to this facility issue in fact we are prevented to doing things like sports. Both because there are no safe facilities and because trans woman can’t Physically compete with men. But that is less a rights issue and more a practical concern even though it has health implications.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-19T12:58:35+00:00

It is objectifying though. Like..I’m a woman telling you that a male observing and then mimicking a woman is objectifying.

And I’m saying “mimicking” is mischaracterization. It’s no more mimicking than a child learning to talk from hearing their parents. It’s just learning.

Here’s the thing, you claim it’s a desire to be pretty because you are told women are pretty. Girls are afraid not to be pretty because we are told our worth is our beauty. Femininity has nothing to do with women’s desires. It is forced on women and created by male desire, and then other males adopt it because they desired what women were indoctrinated with. Then we are told that this desire makes them women.

We’re both shaped by socialization, sure and one I’ve already said isn’t the same one. And it’s as much about disassociating with male expected traits. I.e we are told men aren’t pretty women are so someone who wants to be seen as or feel more like a woman will naturally develop an urge to be seen as pretty. Because it is a trait associated with the desired outcome and therefore becomes desireable. Society shapes us all, we all react differently

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-13T12:28:27+00:00

Whether you put the structures in place or not you are actively arguing for them yo hurt us. It’s not complicated.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-13T12:27:12+00:00

That’s what calling me a man is.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-07T11:50:58+00:00

Choosing to believe something other than the definition of the word is the problem of the believer.

(Insert stock evolving definitions and living language conversation you will ignore)

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-06T11:04:02+00:00

I’m not having the language philosophy discussion again.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T23:30:41+00:00

It’s almost as if the media’s noted protensity to report trans women’s deaths as men’s deaths that I already talked about could play a role. Or the fact that your claim that trans women are more likely to be murders than murdered is total horse shit. Weird.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T23:01:07+00:00

I’m literally openly for single occupancy neutral spaces. Trans spaces are an issue because they force us to put ourselves and the only true escape from trans prejudice is stealth. My point has never Been we should be using all women’s spaces it’s that we can’t use men’s spaces.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T22:58:07+00:00

It’s not a psychotic state. It would be less threatening if it was. They just hate us.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T22:21:05+00:00

I’m not taking this further. I’ve literally been beaten up by random men specifically for pissing in a men’s room. Like not hypothetical. It happened to me personally. So yeah men just fuck up trans women for no reason and we should all live in fear of them.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T21:47:27+00:00

It isn’t provable. Media and police report violence against trans women as violence against gay men which deflate numbers for one. For 2 we don’t trust police so all but the most serious injuries go unreported. A lot of trans women I know have been attacked. Not one has called the cops.

This is why I should just stop responding to you. You deny and downplay us being harmed and deny that we are left with bad choices. It’s easy to have no empathy for a group when you pretend they aren’t harmed.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T21:43:38+00:00

It’s not always about safety. It’s just not. For some yes, in some circumstances, yes. But let’s not pretend that there are no transwomen who do it because of discomfort or out of entitlement.

Sure. I’ll give you there are bad actors in every group. But safety is the justification at core.

Put your bathing suit on under your clothes. Take your clothes off at the pool. Get in the pool. Give yourself a few minutes to dry off (these things called towels help with that), put clothes back on over bathing suit. Problem solved. You’re welcome.

They requiring showing before using the pool most places. That’s the issue.

You don’t miss out on shit. You just have to think beyond your self victimization and see that there are several simple solutions.

Okay this is pointless.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T21:25:22+00:00

So don’t go into male spaces, if you don’t want to.

My point was literally to get you to acknowledge it’s about safety not your false dichotomy.

As you well know I prefer neutral spaces and don’t use women’s spaces at all other than bathrooms. Not because I think I shouldn’t be able to, I just don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable.

So okay. I have to build gym days around going home after, can’t go to a spa, can’t ever use a public pool (other than maybe at hotels) can’t try on clothes, a bunch of other stuff. But fact of the matter is we are left to choose between physical danger, making people uncomfortable, or missing out in large sections of public life. Can you at least see how awful it is we have no good choice?

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T20:45:14+00:00

Ah. More a general sarcastic dismissal referencing the show. The Jan in question is actually a teenager in fact not a middle aged woman.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T20:44:01+00:00

… the concept of being uncomfortable around male bodies is something that is understood and sympathized with- but only if you’re a male yourself?

It’s not just comfort. It’s safety. If I go into a men’s locker room I will at least have a higher than average chance of being physically assaulted. Why can’t you at least acknowledge that as a motivation for not wanting to be in men’s spaces? Men are dangerous to trans women. Being in an enclosed and isolated space with them more so. Can you at least acknowledge that? You know i prefer single occupancy spaces anyway but you know that at minimum some trans women don’t want to be in men’s spaces because they are worried about physical harm.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T20:40:02+00:00

That is an incomplete understanding of how criminal laws work both since they vary by location and that they usually have some intention element (mens rea) ranging from recklessly to intentionally

That aside, it shouldn’t matter ideally. Yes pre op trans women shouldn’t expose their genitals in those settings but also anyone leering in a locker room should be removed, trans or not.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-03T19:24:20+00:00

Tyra Hunter literally died due to being denied care for being trans. That survey didn’t specify transition related care. Just say you don’t care if trans people die and move on.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-03T18:10:05+00:00

I provided 2 named examples and a survey. That’s more than I’ve seen showing it isn’t happening. Balls to you Hoss.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-03T10:39:40+00:00

I honestly don’t know. Like I can’t envision a world where I wanted to be a cis man. I hate them and don’t trust them. I don’t want to be one. I’d love to be a natal woman, I’ll accept being a trans woman, but anything that sought to make me a cis man feels evil and wrong an a hideous level to me personally.

Not to mention I think any movement in that direction is going to be inexorably tied to enforced masculinity (or femininity for trans men) because any money with that goal isn’t going to be seeking to make gnc people, they will be seeking to manufacture gender conforming people.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-03T02:04:22+00:00

I think that it’s unlikely anyone would explore dysphoria without t gw express purpose of making sure there were no more trans people honestsly. No one is going to be exploring that without an anti trans agenda. Because transition effectively treats it. So the only reason to keep digging is because you don’t like transition.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-02T08:33:30+00:00

It’s also legal for a doctor to refuse to give a trans person a tetanus shot or to see them for a non life threatening but painful condition just because they are trans. That’s wrong.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-02T01:38:57+00:00

It is legal to deny non emergency care to trans people.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-01T19:26:41+00:00

I mean I believe you specifically hate me. Like not generally. You called me a rapist.

I’m not blocking you or anything.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-01T19:25:30+00:00

But there is though. Even leaving aside the nature of sport itself. Those men are the worst of them. Trans women would be targeted and harassed no question. Literally the men would prevent it.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-01T18:37:53+00:00

Well, I hope you know that I care about your well being.

Thank you.

It’s about the same I think. The one that sticks out as being most hateful of me personally (as opposed to all trans people) is Sloane who is obviously still here but I think there’s a bit less vehement sentiments in general. On the flip side I think there is almost no qt people speaking up at all. Most of the trans people seem quite Gc leaning with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-01T18:35:15+00:00

Part of competition involves contest. It’s not sport for a trans woman to get destroyed by a cis dude. It’s Bullying with a ball. It isn’t sport.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-01T18:10:53+00:00

It’s quite simple. Literally just saying you can’t discriminate based on gender identity covers anything from self id to medical diagnosis. You could also phrase it at transgender status simply gender. It would all work.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-01T18:05:14+00:00

Me personally, no but I also won’t go to the doctor for anything nonemergency except to my pcp who is expressly trans friendly.

The point is it isn’t illegal (edit referring to nonemergency care). We aren’t entitled to nondiscrimination in health care and that’s an important right.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-01T12:29:32+00:00

It would take a radical chance. The gc’s are advocating for a logical extension that would essentially make our lives unlivable.

Transition being excluded from insurance and public funds would mean the vast majority of trans people would never be able to transition medically. Most of us would rather die.

We can’t use men’s facilities. They aren’t safe. Saying we should use men’s facilities is saying we should accept violence or abandon public life entirely. Third spaces are great but also don’t exist most places.

Inability to change documents leads to discrimination at minimum, not to mention the mental pain of being forced to literally carry a card that has your shameful medical history on it.

We need legal protections, we need access to transition, and we need the facilities to let us live in society. Until GC can agree with that, there’s never going to be cooperative feelings because without that they are advocating for us to not be able to live.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-20T11:55:12+00:00

No one is buying this ridiculous tactic of making obvious implications and then going “well I didn’t actually say it”. It’s very junior high bully of you.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-20T04:04:09+00:00

I’m not advocating harm to men you are advocating harm to trans women. It isn’t the same. Not to mention men are at the pinnacle of the social hierarchy, trans women are at the bottom.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-20T03:13:31+00:00

I’m not going to stop calling men monsters until they stop being , as a group, monsters

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-20T03:11:57+00:00

It’s an adult hominem attack. Plainly. Not even a subtle one. You can’t walk it back.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-20T02:51:18+00:00

I started school in the late 80’s and lived in a small rural town in a very red state.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-20T02:44:01+00:00

That doesn’t discribe bpd at all. Again eith the ableism to attempt to discredit.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-19T17:55:40+00:00

But in your previous you said that watching & liking soap opera style melodramas "is considered feminine"

Because it is

you implied this is because of something you deem is innate in female people.

I absolutely did not. I expressly said bot all women like soaps and never came close to implying it was innate. The whole conversation is about how interests are shaped by social influence. Nothing innate about it.

Interestingly, in the passage of mine you chose to quote, you only address one of the two main points I made & ignore the other. My other point was about your tendency to take your own personal beliefs about what is "feminine" and project them onto all of human society in the effort to make it seem that your own idiosyncratic views are universal views held by pretty much everyone on earth. I suggested that this tendency smacks of male socialization, & of narcissism & solipsism, though I did say that "maybe this isn't the case with you." But how about you address this other point?

There’s not a point there. Society genders stuff. Me pointing that out isn’t narcissism or “male entitlement” no Matter how much you imply it then wink at the camera.

You are attributing the bullying you got to "gendered norms," not with to the homophobia, misogyny, male supremacy & authoritarian impulse toward social convention that underlie "gendered norms" & gave rise to them in the first place.

They aren’t exclusive

I am sorry you were bullied & called homophobic slurs. My hunch is that most of the people who did this bullying were males, so this was mainly male-on-male homophobic bullying.

But you weren't bullied "as a girl" like you say. You were bullied as a boy by other boys who were as misogynistic as they were homophobic. If they called you a girl, it was because in their eyes, that was the ultimate put-down, the worst insult they could come up with. They did not actually see you "as a girl."

I mean they literally called me a girl. They feminized my name and called me that for years. But yes that was mysogynistic use of the feminine as an insult.

As for your query, "Have you ever been around a male child of any sort?" & then your description of the bullying you got in school: In this remark & many others on these threads over many months, you give the impression that you think you & other males like you are the only ones who ever got bullied in school.

I don’t imply that at all. We were bullied for specific traits which reinforce gender roles. That’s my point. Poor kids and poc kids, and smart kids all got bullied too but that’s not relevant because it wasn’t reinforcing the relevant behaviors to this discussion.

IMO you appear to have a self-centered POV that is clear evidence of male socialization, solipsism & narcissism.

Use male socialization as a card all you want but please stop accusing me of fictional mental illnesses to attempt to tear me down. It’s deeply ableist. I have several mental illnesses narcissism and solipsism aren’t among them. Stop.

For the record, girls get constantly bullied by boys in school. And girls get routinely sexually molested by boys in school too. This happens whether we are "gender conforming" or non-conforming. Boys & men do this to us because we are female, not because we are - or are not - "feminine."

I agree that happens though bullying girls to be more feminine is certainly a thing that happens. Why deny that?

I was a girl child who was frequently sexually harassed & groped by boys in throughout my schooling. This started in first grade when boys nicknamed me "skinhead" after a hairdresser went overboard in giving me the pixie cut lots of little girls my age customarily wore, & when two boys shoved me into a coat closet, pushed me onto the floor & punched me as they pulled up the skirt of my school uniform & pulled down my underpants. In lower & middle school, I & other girls I went to school with were verbally abused & physically abused by boys pretty much every day. Boys would routinely insult us for running & throwing "like a girl," for being "stupid/dumb like a girl," for being "gross like girls" & "spastic/slow/klutzy like girls." Boys would push us, pull our hair, trip us, aim spitballs at us, grab our books & lunches & toss them to one another, & as we got older they would routinely gang up to corner & grope us to see if we were developing breasts yet or wearing bras. Starting in 6th grade (US school), girls who had long hair & had the bad luck to sit in front of certain especially malevolent boys in the school I attended often had the ends of their hair singed or burnt off by the boys' Bic lighters too. Once we got to age 10-11 and started sprouting breasts & menstruating, boys' sexual harassment & body shaming of us girls ramped up even worse. Later in my schooling, I was one of a small number of women in the first class of female students admitted as undergraduates to a prestigious US university that had been all-male for hundreds of years until then. Whilst the majority of male students, professors & administrators were decent to us, a significant number were not. As a result, I & the other women in my class were bullied on a regular basis by male students & some professors & administrators just for being there. We were called all sorts of awful names too disgusting to repeat. A number of male students threatened us with rape & other forms of physical assault as well. I got death threats, & once during first year some male students doused my dorm room door with lighter fluid & set it on fire.

I’m sorry all that happened but I never said or implied it didn’t. Bully to reinforce gendered norms is just one facet. People get bullied for many reasons and it’s shameful it wasn’t more properly dealt with.

I've taught classes for young children in school & in summer programs. I am the mother of grown sons. As a mum, I have hosted many birthday parties, groups sleepovers, camping trips & house parties for large groups of young males. I know full well how sexist, misogynistic & homophobic males can be, particularly school-age ones. Based on this, I disagree with you that the root cause of male bullying of girls & women, & of boys perceived to be homosexual, or to have homosexual leanings, is "gendered norms." I think the root cause is sex.

It’s a cause of one kind of bullying not the root cause of all bullying. That being said it’s pretty wild to assert that bullying by boys of girls and other boys is somehow the result of sex.

I’m out of time to respond to the rest, I will try to pick up later.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-19T11:23:59+00:00

See, the thing with that version is that it’s not anything like what females experience, and it feels very condescending to be told that a filtered and selected version of what we endure is in any way the same thing.

I don’t think I’ve ever said they were. What we experience is different from male socialization but I don’t think I’ve ever said it’s exactly the same as natal women.

I think you are not characterizing it correctly. It’s not objectifying. Like I happen to enjoy soap opera style melodramas because it has as positive association with watching One life to live with my mom. That’s considered feminine but hardly objectifying. The same can be said for women more generally. It’s not aping women. It’s someone hearing from society that women wear makeup to look pretty, and then learning that social desire to look pretty and developing an interest in makeup. It’s not mimicking or aping women, but rather absorbing the messaging society has to and about them formatively. You are mischaracterizing our evolved personalities and interests as an act of mimicry when in fact it’s just us expressing our own desires, shaped as they are by social experience.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-15T23:42:45+00:00

When it is directed at you, the word man is what were talking about here, it is not directed at trans women but you and only you.

No when directed at any trans woman, it’s an insult. Not just me. Any of us. It’s a choice to say something knowingly hurtful. At best it’s callous realistically it is an attack.

Am I being a monster to you? Am I a monster? What have I done here that you feel is monstrous? I'm a man, half the world is men. If we were monsters, we'd be extinct.

If you are a man then yes, I think you are a monster. Sorry if you find that hurtful, and you can believe differently but that’s what I believe. As to the last part, no one said you were self destructive or stupid.

I don't understand what you mean by "become pariah", and don't kill yourself.

I won’t, that was the point of transition. To stop that. And what I mean is I knew I would never pass and that nonpassable trans women are treated as non people by most of society. I knew what I was in for.

I’m depressed because I am treated like a freak and because I have an accurate picture of my life. Transition was a big improvement in my mental health. And if trans people weren’t treated like freaks, I think I would be quite happy.

With all due respect you don’t know anything about my meditation practice. It’s not going to cure depression but it isn’t “shit”.

What ever you are doing 6 days a week, it ain't working.

Quite the opposite. I’m never happier than event I am in a workout honestly. It’s peaceful and beautiful to simply be. And to actually feel like I am doing something I am good at. And no one bothers me. I just get to exist.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-15T09:35:28+00:00

Trans spaces don’t exist. And realistically won’t absent some kind of legal mandate.

So arguing we shouldn’t be able to access what actually exists because of a an unlikely theoretical possibility is basically just arguing for lack of access without affirmative action on the other end.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-15T01:16:22+00:00

All days are rough days. I may have less patience today because I’ve been working for 15 hours though. But no those resources would not be helpful to me.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-15T01:14:36+00:00

Yeah sure you don’t want us treated badly. Just unable to conceal our status so we are vulnerable, have medical transition be illegal or prohibitively expensive, make sure we don’t have access to safe facilities, and make sure that we suffer for years unnecessarily before accessing transition if we Happen to be able to afford it. But totally don’t wish us ill. Sure. Okay.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-15T01:01:41+00:00

Sure chief. Whatever you say.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-15T00:58:11+00:00

Keep ignoring my points I guess.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-15T00:32:18+00:00

Basically everyone does. I don’t pass so people treat me like shit. I get called a man constantly even thought it is impossible not to know I am a trans woman on sight.

Men are monsters. I don’t want to be associated with them. They are bad.

Calling me that is a heinous insult. There are only a few things I would be more insulted to be called.

No I’m not okay. I’ve said as much. The world treats me like a freak. Why would I be okay?

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-15T00:27:20+00:00

Yeah, you have. Making our access to necessary care harder or impossible. Arguing we shouldn’t have access to safe facilities. Arguing we should be restricted from things. Arguing we shouldn’t be able to protect ourselves by concealing that we are trans. That’s what you are doing.

If we can’t conceal who we are, can’t get care, have no way to live in the world since we can’t access necessary facilities, how is that living in society?

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-15T00:23:16+00:00

That’s how we are treated and what you are encouraging so …

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-14T12:06:22+00:00

We live in a global culture and arguing for us to be dehumanized and unable to be able to actually live in society isn’t being done in a void.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-12T08:52:29+00:00

I’m bisexual, so I’ve been told many times that bisexuality doesn’t exist (or doesn’t exist in men) and that I am actually either gay or straight—it’s never caused an identity crisis in me, but it is somewhat common for bisexual people to have identity crises over these sorts of messages. But the difference is that regardless of anyone’s personal opinions on bisexuality, or self-identification, there is objective criteria for bisexuality and ways to objectively measure bisexuality.

You telling me I’m wrong about my identity doesn’t put me in a crisis. I know who I am whether you like it or not. Yes it’s insulting and it hurts to be called something you consider so vile but there’s no crisis. What it does represent though is the attitude that would deny us the ability to live a tolerable life. That’s the attitude that would deny us access to transition, to ensure that society treats us like monsters, and to ensure that we can never really be at peace in the world. I know who I am but being told I’m not is both an insult and a threat.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-10T02:03:00+00:00

It’s hard to tell who people who are in that low of a place do things. But also chasers don’t want post op trans women. They just want dick.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-10T02:01:43+00:00

You get a baseline on their politics, and how violent they might be through general conversation maybe mention some famous trans people and see how they react. Like if you are discussing music mention Laura Jane Grace as a musician you like. Things like that.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-09T17:12:55+00:00

Gender dysphoria is what makes someone trans. The idea that it didn’t exist until 1970 is absolutely ludicrous.

The Hijra don’t feel comfortable living as men, so they shed the male label and live separately in a way that better works for them, more mirroring women . It’s not like they had exogenous hormones available in 2000 BC so they couldn’t change physically like we do now originally though now many do. That seems at minimum a cleat analogue.

I can only assume you are trolling at this point.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-09T13:53:33+00:00

I think it’s quite common for us really. Like trans women who sleep with chasers even though we are literally just fetish objects to them.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-09T13:30:35+00:00

How many times have you been physically attacked in the bathroom when making a beeline to the stall, then sink, then back out?

Once. When I was attacked I was walking in and headed to a stall. That’s why I stopped using men’s bathrooms. I was attacked for literally no possible other reason than because I am visibly trans.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-09T11:59:02+00:00

why would anyone want to have sex with someone they might consider capable of killing them for what they are? Why would anyone want to have sex with someone who could be completely disgusted by them?

Keep in mind I am pro disclosure but it’s pretty easy to see that it’s because they are lonely. Some people will be with anyone who will have them even if they are awful or cruel. When you know no one will have you, you can look past a little thing like someone thinking you are disgusting just to be with someone.

But again. Trans people should disclose.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-09T11:39:38+00:00

I think before any sexual contact, we should disclose to possible partners.

However I don’t think it should be required before you at least have enough of a conversation to get the sense whether they would hurt you or potentially do something like expose you.

It’s not rape or sexual assault, but I do think it’s wrong to have sex with someone without disclosing.

It would of course be safer not to disclose but I still don’t think it’s fair. I would put it on par with not telling them you are married. Like it could effect whether they wanted to be with you so you should tell them but it isn’t rape not to.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-09T11:28:15+00:00

There have been a few brain scans indicating commonalities among trans women’s brains and differences from male typical brains. There’s been nothing conclusive but I posited that it could be a structural basis for gender dysphoria.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-09T11:24:29+00:00

I assure you it does.

Aside from being observed only extremely recently in human history, with zero cases ever found prior to the transgender movement, beginning in the 1970s

The first SRS like procedure was preformed in the 1930’s and likely would have been popularized earlier than it was if the Nazis hadn’t destroyed Hirschfeld’s work. Gender variant individuals such as the Hijra have recorded history of literally thousands of years.

In other words, dysphoria is not medical, but made up.

Even discounting potential hormonal explainations or external causes, you are essentially arguing all mental issues don’t exist here you realize?

depression … exists purely as a genetic phenomenon.

No. It isn’t purely genetic. Just, wow. Depression doesn’t required a brain scan and can be caused or ameliorated by a variety of factors.

Gender dysphoria has never, by anyone, let alone medical professionals, been claimed to be materially examined.

You mean other than things like the brain scan studies or are you just ignoring those?

Gender ideology itself, alone, is responsible for the intense misery and misfortunate of all these children and adults.

Gender ideology didn’t make me incapable of showering with the lights on before surgery. You are entirely of base.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-09T11:05:18+00:00

don’t want to interact with me, just don’t

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-08T21:01:11+00:00

Men are monsters and noone’s safe around them. If you believe differently put your skin at risk, not ours.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-08T20:59:39+00:00

That is a woefully inaccurate description of my interactions here, but if don’t want to interact with me, just don’t. You don’t have to make up insults and Try to use my mental health as an excuse to ignore what I’ve said.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-06T19:34:21+00:00

And you are working against it. That’s my point.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-06T12:13:24+00:00

Meanings of established words also change. Look at awesome for instance. It originally meant so great as to be terrifying. Now it basically just means cool.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-06T11:17:18+00:00

Language is constantly evolving. As use changes so do definitions and words. It’s not even controversial. That’s just language.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-06T11:05:37+00:00

Literally the lack of access to bathrooms and changing facilities does. The whole point of what we’ve been talking about. If you can’t go somewhere without violence, you can’t go there. It’s not a difficult concept.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-06T09:59:17+00:00

Language is a collective act so a bunch of people using a new definition does change the language. That’s how language works.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-06T09:57:38+00:00

Do you really want to get into the limits of bodyweight exercises as opposed to proper resistance equipment exercises? Being de facto prevented from access has the same effect of a legal ban.

If you’ll be shot if you cross a bridge, it doesn’t matter if crossing the bridge is legal.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-06T09:34:34+00:00

It’s not my personal language. Lots of people include trans women in their definition or women. It’s definitionally jot personal because many people use it.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-06T09:32:22+00:00

Facilities are more effective than home workouts.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-06T09:08:04+00:00

Transwomen aren’t men. When I say men are monsters I’m not including trans women.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-06T09:07:04+00:00

Circling, do you honestly believe that?

I wouldn’t say it if I didn’t.

If transition is prohibitively expensive it prevents transition. Reducing the already slim odds trans women have to pass. And that’s ignoring the ones arguing to ban transition entirely.

So you make us as physically obvious as possible then ensure we can’t update records so we are subject to prejudice even without personal exposure in every review of a file.

You want us to not have access to safe facilities that exist ensuring we are in danger or must cloister somehow.

The logical extension of what you argue for is making us as subject to derision and abuse as possible, even if that isn’t your motive.

Moving isn’t an option but yes I am in a donervative area.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-06T09:01:09+00:00

Access to fitness is at minimum a substantial health concern. But it wasn’t an exhaustive list of things we can’t access anyway.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-06T08:56:37+00:00

You and the large gc names are the primary movers blanketing the Internet with awful arguments against us. You constantly pump new hatred into the system that works against us.

You are the reason people thing we are perverted predators that are on the hunt for their children. You foment hatred and men react to that feeling with violence.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T21:36:18+00:00

That’s literally the only way to achieve acceptance. Everyone thinks we are freaks and deviants. You want everyone to keep thinking that. We just want to be thought of as normal. And that will take pushing.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T20:48:48+00:00

But, women in their own locker rooms are not being voyuers.

Unless they are. Like by leering at someone. Which was my point.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T20:32:41+00:00

Being trans isn’t a religion. Dysphoria is like any other medical condition. Transition treats it. Being called a man is a deeply insulting term to me. In fact there are maybe 2 or 3 things in all the possible insults that would bother me more. But it isn’t a religious question. At most it’s a semantic one.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T19:41:34+00:00

Those aren’t common many maybe even most places. And many don’t actually let trans people use them. They have buzzers that security runs and let families into. That’s the way it was at a few malls last time I lived in a larger city.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T19:10:29+00:00

I’ve already expressly said I don’t even use locker rooms. Men are monsters. Trans women as a particular thing that they hate can never be safe around them. And no you can’t be sexist against men any more than you can be racist against white people.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T19:08:19+00:00

You are conflating my statements on voyerism with the separate comments on exhibitionism, I suspect in bad faith.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T19:07:18+00:00

I do hate myself but that’s not the point.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T06:35:39+00:00

I’m not talking about trans woman. I’m talking about anyone leering at someone in a women’s locker room. Cis or trans. Anyone leering should be removed. That’s my response to the voyerism part of the question.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T06:04:49+00:00

Oh I hate myself but I in no way think of myself as a man.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T05:12:25+00:00

That’s a fake website I made up to illustrate the use of biased sources .

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T04:23:18+00:00

Transpoepleruinsports.org and trans peoplearesuperevil.com the uk’s most reliable news sources.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T04:05:35+00:00

Still waiting on your sources confirming trans women are as dangerous as man or that that are in fact more likely to be killers than killed.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T03:40:44+00:00

So here's the deal if all or even most men were actually monsters human civilization would not be possible.

Hardly. Monsters don’t have to be stupid. Exploitation and using others can let them run a society without empathy just fine.

There are some incredibly thoughtful sweet little boys out there

Sure

who grow up to be fantastic men

And here we disagree

I seriously doubt that the average Joe would attack any transwoman they saw on site. Most likely they would give them a double take then carry on about their business. Many average Joe's might crack a tasteless joke, but that's more annoying than anything. I find it kind of funny that even I have more faith in men than you do. It's a very small percentage of men who are predators that I have to watch out for, most men are fine and thank god for that.

Only if they thought they would get caught. Most people hate trans people. The ones who don’t are trans or just think of us as a fun flavor of gay (like Ru Paul does). Men are just more violent in part because they are taught to be in part because testosterone is basically concentrated evil.

Yeah you do have more faith in men than me. Mine is zero. I don’t trust men. I’m attracted to them but would never date one because that would entail the idiotic move of being alone with one as a trans woman.

Women are just better than men. You won’t change my mind about the fact that men are monsters .

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T03:32:49+00:00

Well as I already said the Swedish study claims a steady criminal rate, however we also know sex work goes up through transition. As such other crimes go down.

Not that there’s much if a point since you are going to take whatever made up statistics from timsarethedevil.com over reality anyway

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T02:42:22+00:00

So you’re saying we can’t look up how many trans people were reported murdered vs how many are murderers? Even just within a given year? Even just within a specific country?

No because many trans women victims get reported as being men instead of trans women.

And you can’t gaslight me. They specifically said we were more likely to kill than be killed. I didn’t shift the discussion.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T02:34:12+00:00

They said both and those stats aren’t available. The Swedish study included all crimes together including sex work, which we know increases with transition. This implies other crimes dropped but we don’t have specific data.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-05T02:18:12+00:00

It’s not sexist. Men are monsters. Woman are dynamic humans. You can’t be sexist against men so it isn’t sexist.

A men’s locker room is an isolate room with only men in it therefore no one to possible help you, restricted exits, and full of the worst kind of men fresh off a post workout testosterone boost. There isn’t a less safe place for a trans woman.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T23:51:57+00:00

How many trans murders have been reported. My bet is less than 1 percent of murderers

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T23:41:12+00:00

What’s the threshold that is okay for you rate wise for it to be acceptable for us to have to risk getting beaten or killed for it to be okay.

So I used a public bathroom let’s say twice a week. That attack happened maybe 18 months into transition so that’s 1:144. That fair odds to you to ignore.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T23:26:38+00:00

Sorry got clipped off there. Being “trans not men or women” is not going to lead to us living normal lives. It’s necessaarilly othering. Plus many might take offense and feel like shit to be told legally they aren’t real people.

Plus trans people will never be accepted. Like being visibly trans will never not suck. It’s not salvageable. Stealth will always be better for the stealth person.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T23:23:57+00:00

Question- aside from fear of discrimination (like real discrimination- work, housing, medical- not women not wanting you to join their women’s book club), what real reason is there to be worried about being outed?

None materially, but that’s an ever present threat. Plus literally everyone will treat you better if they think you are cis. My life sucks because everyone knows I’m trans. I’d kill (metaphorically) to just be seen as normal.

circlingmyownvoid2 · 2021-07-04T23:21:50+00:00

It was a typo. “Out themselves”

Also, that is one hell of a sexist assumption that men are incapable of empathy and women are somehow more capable of it.

If you say so. Men are monsters and I’m done softballing that stance. Women are capable of empathy. Men are monsters. That’s not a slam on women. They’re humans with emotions other than “hate” “lust” or “nothing”.

circlingmyownvoid2