QT: What rights don’t trans people have?

submitted by wokuspokus from self.GCdebatesQT

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

The thing is that you can replace "discriminate against trans" with "discriminate against almost anyone" and it will hold true. You can discriminate same way against women. Only people of color and disabled are protected. Recently homosexual people became protected too, thought it was achieved not on case of the law, but on case of the court descision.

because trans woman can’t Physically compete with men

That is a lie. Hubbard is showing results for top 15% of male competitors of the same age and weight category. Cece Telfer two years after transitioning improved best time and would be in top 150 of male competition (previously was top 390). And they aren't even good athletes, as Cece's running technique is very bad and still can be improved by a lot, Hubbard had trauma and retired from sports because of it for 5 years. At the same time - women (female humans) of same age/weight/training level are not even remotely close to them: Cece was faster than second place by 9% (while 11-12% is often the difference between best men and women in same category in running), Hubbard pulled same weight as 2nd and 3rd place combined in same age and weight category, etc.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 5 insightful - 8 fun5 insightful - 7 fun6 insightful - 8 fun -  (10 children)

You can discriminate same way against (natal) women.

Sex is protected in both housing and medical administration federally. As is age, disability, race, legitimacy, and many other categories. Gender identity is not. Only in employment do we have federal protection due to the Harris funeral home case.

That is a lie.

It absolutely is not. There was a study done that indicated an approximate loss of 10 percent performance in endurance events, putting hormone controlled trans women on par with cis women. As well as documented muscle loss through transition and a known correlation of presence of testosterone and maintenance of muscle mass. It’s absolutely baseless to claim we can compete with men. You could quibble about whether we can compete with natal women but it’s absolutely baseless to claim we are even comparable to men athletically.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Sex is protected in both housing and medical administration federally. As is age, disability, race, legitimacy, and many other categories. Gender identity is not

Genuine question- how do you protect people over something that we can’t even define or understand?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (8 children)

It’s quite simple. Literally just saying you can’t discriminate based on gender identity covers anything from self id to medical diagnosis. You could also phrase it at transgender status simply gender. It would all work.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I don’t agree with self ID but how do you medically diagnose gender identity?

I agree there should be protections in place for being trans (literally just for being trans- don’t call it gender or identity, just literally trans) the way there is for sex and race etc

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

Gender dysphoria is diagnosable. And for nondiscrimination I would certainly rather overprotect than underprotect.

Defining being trans has the same definition issues as gender identity. The term is immaterial ultimately.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I know gender dysphoria is diagnosable. Gender identity is not and you said something about protections on the basis of gender identity and mentioned diagnosing it.

The term isn’t immaterial. A dysphoric individual isn’t necessarily trans, neither is someone who thinks they have a “gender identity”. Making the protection specifically about trans people, not gender identity, actually protects trans people. Making the protection about gender identity allows the Wii Spa incident and similar. Making the protections about dysphoria does nothing for anyone, we can’t see someone’s dysphoric (or their gender identity for that matter), we can see that they are trans most of the time, and that’s when (and why) trans people are discriminated against, if that makes sense.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

I see where you are going but ultimately I’m not bothered for the language. I just want to be legally protected.

A dysphoric individual isn’t necessarily trans,

I actually wouldn’t agree.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

  1. It’s not just about protecting Masks, tho. It’s about protecting trans people as a whole, right? While still protecting females? You’re not protected if the protection is “anyone who says ‘gender identity’ is protected”. That’s how you increase risk of harm for yourself and for women. The language matters. Laws in place for females make (well…made…) it clear they referred to female people, laws in place for black people (even the Racist ones) made it clear what community they were referring to.

it can’t be vague if it’s meant to protect- gender identity is vague by (lack of) definition. It has to be specific and clear. And since it’s your safety in question, not mine, it’s really interesting that you don’t seem to care about the difference the wording makes.

*2. You not agreeing doesn’t make it less true that there are dysphoric individuals even on this sub who aren’t trans

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

If it’s a question of discrimination protections in health care etc, I’m not against overprotecting.

Like this isn’t about spaces or whatever. I’m talking baseline nondiscrimination.