Both: In light of recent events. In what context is Voyeurism and Indecent Exposure acceptable? Is there a rational justification for making an exception for males who claim to be women?

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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (25 children)

What’s the threshold that is okay for you rate wise for it to be acceptable for us to have to risk getting beaten or killed for it to be okay.

So I used a public bathroom let’s say twice a week. That attack happened maybe 18 months into transition so that’s 1:144. That fair odds to you to ignore.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

Again- I get why TW don’t want to take the risk. My points are

  1. Has nothing to do with women so leave us and our spaces out of it

And

  • 2. You used public male spaces for 18 months and got attacked once, which shouldn’t have happened, but shows that every other time, nobody harmed you. Which means that more men didn’t want to do you harm than did. That’s all I’ve been saying this whole time. Not saying there’s no risk- saying you’re implying that most men are a risk and that’s just false. Even according to your own story,the overwhelming majority of the men who saw you in the men’s room didn’t harm you. Again, I understand not taking the risk at all.

But also- if you only use public bathrooms an average of twice a week I don’t really see how not having access to female spaces inhibits your ability to participate in society.

Eta- for clarity, I’m not saying there an acceptable ratio, my sole point has just been that the majority of men won’t harm TW, Im not denying that some will and have

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (23 children)

At that point we had single occupancy toilets at work. That’s not a universal

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

Whatever toilets you had access to, it’s still true that most men won’t and didn’t harm you. That’s literally what we’ve been going back and forth about

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (21 children)

Enough do.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

If “enough” did, there’d be no TW walking around regardless of what public spaces you occupy. If that many men get that aggressive, upset and violent just over your presence, they’d kill each and every one of you, or at least infinitely more attacks and murders would occur. The fact is, the vast majority of men dgaf, they may make ignorant even hurtful comments about TW or not be open to dating you, but they don’t want to actively cause you harm.

And no amount of you basically saying “yeah huh they do! It’s impossible to prove and data shows otherwise but yeah huh they totally do” is going to make what I just said false. You can’t just claim it, you have to prove it. You haven’t done that.

If enough men wanted to hurt TW, they would. They don’t need you to be in the same bathroom as them to do so. Women have their own spaces, women get killed, beaten, raped and otherwise attacked by men much more often than TW.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (19 children)

Predators thrive on opportunity to hurt people. Bathrooms and lockers rooms are ideally suited to let them hurt us easily and with the least possible consequence.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

And yet here you are telling a vulnerable group (women) that we should let men (transwomen) into our bathrooms.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (11 children)

Transwomen aren’t men. When I say men are monsters I’m not including trans women.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Transwomen are men. Your personal definition of men and women does not change what males and females are. Man refers to adult human male, woman refers to adult human female.

All transwomen are adult human males, ergo, men. What subjective values you choose to place on these definitions is up to you, but don’t expect the rest of us to follow your personal language.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

And yet women still get murdered by men much more frequently than TW do. Which means somehow, someway, men who want to hurt women have always been able to find a way. So again- if they wanted to harm TW, bathrooms aren’t the be all and end all. They’d find a way.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (4 children)

And yet women still get murdered by men much more frequently than TW do

I’m not convinced that’s true. The data problems I’ve already talked about.

They do and they do. Bathroooms and locker rooms are just perfect storms of making it easy.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh! My bad. I guess if you’re not convinced that’s all it takes to make that statement incorrect lol

Population count alone would make that a true statement but even if we account for the known population of TW- this is a true statement and it’s so incredibly shitty to pretend it’s not. Even if it’s not true, it would still not okay that TW do get murdered sometimes. You don’t have to deny the truth to make your point. God I wish I was qt sometimes just to argue your side for you because my god you guys need help lol

I don’t know why you think saying “nah I disagree” means anything. That’s not an argument or disproving/proving anything.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The point is still that despite having protective measures in place, men consistently find ways to harm and kill women. Whether it’s done at the same rate or higher/lower than TW is a secondary point and you know it