all 76 comments

[–]limegreen 61 insightful - 1 fun61 insightful - 0 fun62 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Radfem's want the rights for all women regardless of their race.

Can you link the antisemitic and racist content that you noticed on Spinster? I have not noticed anything of the sort and I have been online very frequently.

[–]BarleySammich 54 insightful - 1 fun54 insightful - 0 fun55 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Links, please. I’m sceptical about people sowing division when women are under attack. Our enemies want us divided. One or 2 assholes does not a movement make, and the internet is wide open to infiltrators to any cause. Just sayin’.

[–]Irascible-harpy 53 insightful - 1 fun53 insightful - 0 fun54 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I was a mod on G_c. I removed some comments of a similar vein as this. The user repeatedly failed to respond to requests for specific examples and instead picked fights and continually accused GC of racism and antisemetism.

As mods, we take racist and antisemitic content as seriously as we do misogynistic content. We will always seek to have the content removed to the extent possible in accordance with our rules. If you have a specific example you would like to discuss, please PM me the comment you want addressed.

[–]CaliforniGinger 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, at this point I'm thinking this is an attempt to exert control over us, not a genuine issue.

[–]Rationalmind 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That was a smart move. Thanks for being a moderator!

[–][deleted] 44 insightful - 1 fun44 insightful - 0 fun45 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

WTH. Can there be a more obvious agent provocateur? If you ever went on GC you'd know we were diverse. I'm not white nor am I christian, and we have no leaders. Buddying up? If you were a previous reddit user does this mean you were buddying up to misogynists, perverts, and incels? In case you haven't noticed saidit's kind of empty. Also, we aren't interacting with the general population and top posts have about ten comments, it sure is a hotbed of racism. Beggars can't be choosers, it's an okay spot until we have another place to congregate.

[–]DifferentAirGC 41 insightful - 4 fun41 insightful - 3 fun42 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

more WOC and non-Christian religious women in leadership positions.

Do we even have leaderships?

[–]peregrine_throw 19 insightful - 8 fun19 insightful - 7 fun20 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

Isn't it Bindel, the Lesbian Supreme of the International Cult of Powerful LesbiansTM and madam of mail-order brides? lolll

And other UK ladies for now, in general (I say in half-jest). Lots of eyes on Allison Bailley, JK Rowling and Maya Forstater. And LGB Alliance.

[–]Rationalmind 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not that I’m aware.

[–]vitunrotta 27 insightful - 2 fun27 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

...What? I - as a woman - have always felt that women, no matter what colour of their skin, are MY SISTERS. I have not seen any "white supremacy" anywhere. Would you like to link us to actual so-called "feminist" sites that are racist?

Please do. If you can't, you're a troll. And if any feminist site spouts some racist or antisemitic bullshit... Yeah, that's not feminist.

(Also: BOOYAH! We are here for WOMEN'S rights. Goddamn do you sound like a dude in a lady costume. Go eat a lollipop.)

[–]pennyheax 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

This has "I don't see color" vibes.

I'd personally like to hear more from the OP before assuming she's a troll.

[–]Irascible-harpy 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Sure will be interesting to see if OP has any specific examples. So far we just have their intuition that there weren't enough women of colored based on gut feel or some shit.

[–]vitunrotta 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What do you mean by those vibes? I am not trying to erase anyone's skin color and certainly wouldn't try to erase anybody's drastically different experiences in this world due to it. I'm very white skinned and can easily admit I have had it SO MUCH easier in many ways - just because I happened to born with a very light skin color. I was literally saying that to me it does not matter what colour your skin is. I am very aware of the fact that for many other people it means a lot - in the worst sense.

[–]pennyheax 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's because you painted a rosy picture of solidarity while simultaneously dismissing the OP's concerns. They may be a troll or they may be genuine, I don't know. But I do know that as a WOC myself, if my concerns were reacted to this way, I would leave the community. I've been disenfranchised in the past by how white dominated feminism is, and I would take it as a sign that things haven't really changed.

[–]vitunrotta 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I certainly don't want to make anyone feel like feminism isn't for them because of their skin colour. My apologies, my wording was clumsy. Feminism has been very white for a long time and I personally am very glad to see it's slowly spreading to be more inclusive. I've read a lot from e.g. the old Reddit GC and honestly noted zero racism. This obviously does NOT mean it doesn't exist, I might just be super blind to it.

(Or, radical feminism really is NOT racist, and some people want to discredit the movement by claiming it's an inherent part of it. Racist radical feminist individuals most certainly exist but that shouldn't mean that all radfems are racists.)

Sidenote: my lingo around this is awkward as libfems pretty much taught me to STFU and stop asking questions from WOC regarding their specific experiences. So I stopped asking and never learned anything. I find this kind of culture a bit backwards, because I would really like to be a better ally, but then I'm not taught how to do it. It's a bit of a paradox - I should not ask but I should be an ally, but without really understanding what is happening to WOC, I am merely guessing what to do to and might end up not helping at all. Hope this made sense. I would personally e.g. welcome an open discussion with WOC in order to educate myself and be a better supporter.

Hopefully this does not make me sound like I'm INSISTING upon it and thus being aggressive towards WOC... Just saying I would be interested in said discussion.

[–]Badmammajamma 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Feminism does have a white privilege problem. It is as old as the movement of feminism itself. Not that all feminists are racists, but that white folks benefit from the systemic racism that exists in the world and which we may perpetuate without even knowing it.

Whether OP is a troll or not, I think acknowledging a WOC’s POV that they experience racism within the movement is important.

[–]Diversity_Racket 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

What actions do you hope radfems take to support women of colour? (Not asking in a snarky way)

[–]unexpectedly_local 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Cultural competence training/practice is a great first step, it is extremely hard to build understanding with someone if you don't actually understand where their perspective is coming from. It seems to me like a lot of white feminists pull the "we are all women, we're all fighting for the same thing" concept without actually trying to see where the WoC perspective is coming from. Oftentimes the same crimes against WoC and white women are motivated by different cultural factors.

One thing I recommend all white feminists is to read chapter 4, "Racism and Feminism", of bell hooks' "Ain't I A Woman?" (you can Google it for a free pdf). If you can read the whole book, it's an interesting perspective on the historical-cultural context of the specific oppression of black women in America. It will probably upset white people/women a lot though (those of you who instinctively feel defensive around race topics, it is pretty unapologetic), so please please please try to keep an open mind.

Edit: As a disclaimer, I'm not saying that you have to agree with everything in the chapter to be a good ally. But I would say the main job as a white ally of WoC is to simply open your mind to their ideas and perspective, to consider their position and how it shapes their perspective, as well as to consider your own position within their perspective. WoC by default as minorities are forced to fit ourselves within the white perspective since day 1 in a white society, the least we can ask of you is a bit of reciprocation.

[–]Diversity_Racket 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I used to work in this field (nonprofit/social justice) for several years and we had extensive training. In my experience it has failed miserably, and continues to fail. Based on the feedback: 1) people don't like being told what to think, 2) the trainings are Western-centric - by this I mean, people are thrown these confusing, new SJW terms that no one understands and are expected to just accept blindly. And if they do have questions about the term, it takes up so much time to actually explain that nothing gets done. 3) There is so much focus on who is the most oppressed, and rarely anything is said about practical things everyday people can do to support POC, 4) self-censorship is strong because people are scared of saying something phobic or racist, so open and honest discussions are rare. You would need a really, really good facilitator to be able to lead these discussions - and most of these facilitators I've come across are wayyy too identity politicky. (Example: In one of the trainings, a participant was called out BY the facilitator for calling the facilitator the wrong pronouns that day. The facilitator identified as both "she" AND "they." I mean, really??) Also, I'm in Vancouver, so I admit it's 100x worse here.

I don't know what would work to increase understanding/awareness, but the trainings just aren't it. And just to add, this condescending/cringey social media BLM campaign isn't it either (ex: "hey guys, tell me which Black creators/businesses I should give a shout to/follow!") It's awareness for the lazy.

To the OP: I haven't been on Spinster long, but I've never seen anti-POC/WOC rhetoric. I've actually seen a couple people reference bell hooks (though I wish I had the links now!)

Thanks for the recommendation, I will look up that chapter right now. It would be nice to see people educate themselves through you know, books, but you can't really expect many people to read on a good day...

[–]unexpectedly_local 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Thank you for sharing your experience. I'll admit, I've never taken a cultural competence training course, but it was a term I thought encompassed the general idea of cultural curiosity. Most of what I know about other women and the plights of other women is merely reading, watching, listening, and most importantly, critical thinking. I don't think you need a formal course to do all of that, and I definitely agree that anything led by the identity politics side of things is not the way to go.

Here is an article regarding the South Korean radical feminist movement. It's a great look at how the idea of "we're all women fighting for the same things" falls short of cultural context and perspective. What they are fighting for and most importantly why they are fighting is deeply rooted in their culture and history. We as Western radfems can really learn a lot from their perspective, imo, especially in an age where Western feminism has completely lost the plot and become whatever it is now. https://www.feministcurrent.com/2020/06/15/the-south-korean-womens-movement-we-are-not-flowers-we-are-a-fire/

[–]CaliforniGinger 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Heh, I think I actually found that article FROM r/GC!

[–]Spikygrasspod 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for the specific recommendation. Reading that text is something I can do.

[–]Amareldys 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for the book suggestion, it sounds ery interesting.

[–]fuckingsealions 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

I want to know more about this issue, I'm open. I feel blind--I didn't see the racism in GC. I'm not saying "prove it" but if you can link to some articles or resources to learn more I am happy to read about it. I don't want to impose on your time for my personal education, but if you have any names, books, links, I'm interested. Otherwise I will look around. I see a lot of WOC on twitter who appear to be radfems, and I follow a lot of different people. I am not sure who our leaders are, though. :/

[–]jkfinn 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

There was a lack of black women voices on GC. Call that insensitivity to race, or racism. I can't cite any numbers as regards to threads dealing with black women, but they were few and often far between, and some of these were too much ignored. Blacks make up 11-12% of the U.S. population, but I'm sure the percentage on GC was more like 3% (have no way of knowing except by reading between the lines and noting voice absences)

[–]DifferentAirGC 32 insightful - 1 fun32 insightful - 0 fun33 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Blacks make up 11-12% of the U.S. population

People from countries other than USA visit GC though, I'm one.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

[–]beereadit 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Half of it (49%) is from the USA huh? I expected more.

[–]jkfinn 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm very much aware of that. I was speaking of US black women's presence there only.

[–]DifferentAirGC 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do black women from other countries not matter?

[–]CaliforniGinger 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Blacks make up 11-12% of the U.S. population, but I'm sure the percentage on GC was more like 3% (have no way of knowing except by reading between the lines and noting voice absences)

Huh? So you're just "guessing" that they weren't there?

[–]Rationalmind 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed, it’s bizarre how anyone would even know what race someone is online unless they individually volunteer that information. How one can even fabricate a statistic with zero evidence confuses me as well.

[–]jkfinn 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

I'm a very intelligent guesser when it comes to voices or absent voices (lots of experience with this) But where were the threads, the interest, the learning, the changing.... this was done but only by a very few, who understood the place was not welcoming enough to black women.

[–]CaliforniGinger 30 insightful - 2 fun30 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This answer is quite frustrating. WHAT are we supposed to be doing? "Other" black women by asking them tons of questions and putting them on the spot? We talked about relationships, jobs, FGM, femicide, misogyny in all its forms, gender vs sex, safe spaces, scientific studies, different beauty standards ie natural hair in the workplace, the way that TRAs use old racist ideas about WOC being masculine and how ridiculous that 8s, racial and sexist bias in healthcare... what are we not doing/doing that's bad?

[–]CaliforniGinger 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are you going to answer my questions?

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That's quite a leap.

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No offense meant, but how can you be sure if in the same sentence you say we have no way of knowing? I don't doubt Reddit skews white. I'm also not saying that there was or wasn't a lack, because I only joined last year. Sometimes my google results on GC issues gets lipstickalley results which I read, most users seem to be GC. Of course, whether those same users frequent reddit or not is another question.

[–]jkfinn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Many members of GC commented on the number trans spies were around... how did they know. I don't know, but I mainly believed them because it made good sense. Race has always been an issue with radical feminists (worse with liberal) and there's absolutely no way that this present version of it has improved on the second wave... no way at all, although this latest wave of anti-racism gives it a chance at a deepening awareness of the problem.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Will hazard a guess that they're pretty easy to identify when they monitor and bash GC in other subs or say outrageous things in GC. There is a way that it could be improved, actually though there definitely is a skew towards white which is true of all feminism. Changing demographics. If our message attacts approximately the same number of total people, but the white % of US population has dropped since the second wave, unless the gains are concentrated in white women that means there have been gains among other groups as well.

[–]fuckingsealions 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm glad we're talking about this. I have to admit that sometimes I hesitate to engage with women of color I don't know because I don't want to steamroll them or hamper their discussion. I also don't want to be all woke with my tiny pool of knowledge and act like I'm some kind of ambassador. Kind of how I feel when dudes post here. I spend a lot of time listening and reading, which makes me think about other people besides myself.

[–]jkfinn 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think one of the reasons this is a topic now is because there is no down voting here, so you can go with what you say without self-censoring (as almost everyone at GC did when it the downs occurred) No more -35 embarrassment next one's name.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Grassroot movement with no leaders :)

[–]YourSister 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Black radfem here, who had thousands of comments on GC over 3 years. I saw plenty of ignorance, but the 2 racist comments I saw were from men *histories were easy to check if you were suspicious, and were deleted within moments of my reporting. I think you're shitstirring.

[–]CaliforniGinger 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Can you get specific? There were a lot of women saying "as a Black woman" or "As a Muslim woman," or "As a POC" in threads there, plus a lot of Twitter is WOC. I realize POC have different challenges and needs and I try hard to listen to them, so I'd like to know what exactly/who exactly is acting wrong?

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I remember seeing those too!

[–]marmalade 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Be wary of various incompaitble sorts trying to establish thenselves here as we rebuild. We don't need to waste our energy on those who only seek to derail us.

[–]Tiredoftedium 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm a WOC, I haven't seen what you saw. There were some posts on GC that mildly irked me in regards to race. But, I'm fed up of not being allowed to exist outside the colour of my skin in either direction. I'm tired of, I don't know how to phrase it, 'traditional' racism. And, I'm also tired of feeling like we're (woc) constantly brought to attention just because of our colour. I'm here to talk about women, all women. If you want to draw more attention to WOC issues then post those, we'll talk about them. But it would be nice, for just once in my life to feel like I fit in a group, just as I am. I'm a woman, we're a group of women. In so many spaces in real life I'm odd. If it isn't "can I touch your hair" it's "how do you feel about POC being asked if people can touch their hair". I understand that other WOC may feel differently, I don't want to speak for or over them. Just me, personally, I feel exasperated at a lack of forward momentum because of having to pick through intersectionality so often. Sorry for ranting.

[–]WrongToy 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Meerkat,

There were WOC in original r/gc and there are WOC in this subsaidit.

[–]Cat13 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The only thing I can think of is the trend of saying how we can spot trans women by certain features that are common in white men but also seen more frequently about other races. And from what I saw the mods put a stop to that months ago. We learned from our mistakes and moved past them. Was there something else about the subreddit that I was missing?

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

It's my experience that radical feminism has a problem with being anti-white. For example spinster's terms specifically suppress white identity and only white identity content. It also has a problem with suppressing critical statements about certain groups, while permitting them about other groups, in a way that is unfair. There is also regular use of a term intended to exclude white women and only white women, a tiny minority in a global movement who are in increasingly urgent need of protection and support worldwide, and who have unacknowledged historical trauma to deal with (where do you think the word "slave" comes from? it's still going on in the same places it's always been going on, and it's still targeting white women specifically). I hope these things can be rectified going forward.

I'm also curious why you were banned.

[–]peregrine_throw 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Wrt r/GC, most likely as a troll precaution, not saying OP is one necessarily. RF has been constantly framed as white feminism to discredit it, despite so many women of all colors within it. If accusing it as white feminism outright doesn't stick, calling it racist is another way to skin it.

but the constant buddying up with the alt-right makes it extremely difficult for me to do so.

OP u/meerkat, on one hand, if you demand purity and cut off anyone who agrees with you on two stances but disagree on two other, you will be sadly disappointed that the resulting movement population would be tiny tiny and will not be able to enact changes that require the participation of these "impure" ones. Even within one's own family unit, most would find it hard to find total compatibility.

On the other hand, to agree with "impure" ones on two issues doesn't mean you agree with them on all of theirs. Pretty sure you agree on climate change and pedophilia with these same people you demand RF not show agreement with, including religious and skinheads. Personally, I would have no issues standing next to them in demonstrations against, say, removing safeguarding laws for minors, or total excavation of an area that would definitely pollute a province's entire water supply. Of course care to make optics clear that you're not under them must be taken.

Spinster mods ignoring blatant racist comments (=/= view that goes counter to the black POV) is a whole separate thing, though. Never been on there.

[–]Rationalmind 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Totally. I think that whenever someone tries to come and break up women and form division. As women, we must come together otherwise those that want to split us into factions enact the patriarchy intent on keeping women apart.

[–]Irascible-harpy 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is there evidence of Spinster mods blatant ignoring racism?

[–]Shinjin_Nana 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is closer to my experience than Spinster being anti-semetic or openly racist. I saw posts that separated out 'white feminists' and 'feminists'. My issue was not with someone holding the opinion, but that no one was really challenging it or challenging inserting identity politics into feminism. It felt like an elephant in the room.

My Spinster account lasted about a week, and was self terminated. It was too draining and I was starting to feel a little more jaded about being a radfem so I left.

[–]Lilith_Fair 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm watching the conversation in this thread develop and I'm worried it'll take a wrong turn because no one is clear what OP is talking about, and she hasn't come back to clarify. I can't speak for all WOC, but I'm Asian-American. I used to lurk on the r/GC sub too, and I honestly have not seen or felt any racism here or there. In fact, I was quite impressed when I first discovered r/GC to regularly see discussion threads about international women's rights, as I always find feminism in the US to be myopic and limited to first world issues and blind or tone deaf to oppressions in less developed places and countries.

That said, I don't believe OP is a troll. Her post history here shows she is a good faith participant in the GC discussion. Her post is very cryptic about what she's displeased with, so I'm quite confused myself at this point. It seems that she might be talking about the platforms where our sub is hosted, and her dissatisfaction with what happens outside of the sub is meshed with what's happening in the sub? For example, Spinster is connected to Fediverse. And I have no doubt Fediverse might have some very alt_rightish spaces. This place, Saidit, can be very repulsive too. On the Home page I've seen some very revolting racist and antisemitic posts which I haven't seen on most places for years. It makes me really angry to know that the leftist purity police has now left us to rely on these horrible people to be the defenders of free speech. If this is OP's issue, then I'm not sure what we can do about it until the old r/GC mods have their own platform up and running.

From OP's post history, I did see one engagement she had with someone that touched on the subject of racism. It seems to me that the person she was engaging with is not so much GC but a wanderer in here from the main sub?? Again, these kind of engagements are sometimes unavoidable because there will always be people who came across this sub by random or curiosity. It's the nature of a public forum. I don't see most of these randoms as a problem as they usually are here by accident. They lose interest very quickly and leave shortly, unless they are here in bad faith to cause problems, in which case the mods will handle that.

Also, I don't think right now being on an open-speech sub is equivalent to buddying up with alt_rights. We can't condemn speech policing, and then insist on speech policing ourselves. One of the reasons I feel I can finally post a lot more freely now is because I don't feel like I have to walk on eggshells here anymore, the way I felt I had to on Reddit as I never knew who might be watching, even though I took a lot of precautions to make sure I was anonymous. I don't want the egg-shell culture to take over here. If someone has an issue, I hope it can be stated clearly what the specific problems are, and we can talk it out in the open so we can arrive at a place with better understanding, or clear up any misunderstanding.

OP: I hear you. I empathize with you. But a general complaint against racism is not helpful. This is a discussion forum. There are no leaders or leadership positions. You're welcomed here. Sometimes there are individuals who might be ignorant of something or another, but we also have to take into account that there are commenters or subscribers are from all parts of the world. Some are not going to be up-to-date or sensitive on racial issues that only affect the US or certain countries. Also, not all commenters are GC women. It's best to note who is speaking to get a better context. If something has upset or offended you, let us know what it is and let us try to come to a place where we can all express our grievances freely.

To everyone else, until we can get some clarifications, please stop all the guess works. DO NOT go Robin DeAngelo here please!! As a WOC I implore you that is the last thing we need.

Edit: for clarification

[–]Coconaut 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think everybody would agree that all women are welcome here, including WoC. Could you say more why you feel the movement is racist, with examples? I have not seen any of that.

[–]Realwoman 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What are some examples of racism within radfems?

[–]threefingersam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I too would actually like to see evidence. Because I never saw racism being allowed on r/GC

[–]harmonyseas 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I see what you’re saying. White women in just about every form/wave of feminism have allowed our own voices to dominate. I am looking to do better for women of color so that you feel just as welcome and valued in this movement. White radfems have to hold each other accountable when something is done that alienates WOC. If there is anything you would like us to do differently to ensure that this happens, please let us know.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I just wanted to say that your post is on point. It is beautifully put and it is disappointing that more people found the "fuck islam" post more insightful than this one.

[–]feministunderyrbed 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Don’t know if this is what OP means but it always bothered me that we had posters on r/GC who also posted on r/conservative, and posters who lumped all “wokeness” together whether anti-racism (legit) or TRA (not). Also some of us tended toward Islam-bashing.

But I’m not exempting myself from the problem. I’m sure I’m not free of racism myself.

[–]miaowkitty 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Islam is an extremely misogynistic religion, so it deserves to be bashed.

[–]Nona_Biba 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Islam is the worst religion in the world. To steal a quote from sam harris...in no other religion are mothers happy and throw parties when their sons kill themselves and murder several innocent people at the same time. Fuck islam. Plenty of muslims are good people but their religion is shit.

[–]feministunderyrbed 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

See, I would make a point of not stealing a quote from Sam Harris on anything having to do with women.

It’s fine to argue against Islam if you want as some monolith of oppression (although Christianity and secular liberalism haven’t exactly been great for women either) but too often it turns into bashing Muslims, meaning people who were born under Islam and follow that religion as a default, who have been killed in massive numbers by Western powers over the past twenty years. There is a strain of feminism among Muslim women that focuses on the veil as resistance against liberal porn culture. I’m not going to spend energy bashing that.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I had to leave Spinster too because there was literally someone there spewing the most vile antisemitic and anti-black rhetoric I’d ever seen.

Was that recently? I joined not too long ago and I'm still trying to figure out how to use it. Is there a way we can report people like that if anyone knows?

[–]DifferentAirGC 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is there a way we can report people like that if anyone knows?

Yes. Click the "..." button under the post and click report

[–]jkfinn 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That's the reason I'm not there at Spinster... i think it will take me forever to learn how to use it, and I can't imagine how following someone doesn't create divisions--as in how many followers do you have? "2 or 3, but I can't recall on account of numbers don't faze me."

[–]limegreen 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Its super simple, similar to Twitter. No one is comparing the number of followers you have, every woman's voice is equal on Spinster.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes. The navigation is bizarre... and sometimes my notifications don't show up and all I can see are my own posts.

[–]jkfinn 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. The navigation is bizarre... and sometimes my notifications don't show up and all I can see are my own posts.

Thanks for the info.

[–]strawberryfields4evr 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Spinster is based on open source code from Mastodon and is part of the Fediverse network. You can see posts from Gab which is a huge hub for white supremacists. If you stick to posts within Spinster, I haven't come across anything like this personally. It would be really helpful if you could identify posts and/or posters so we could get to the bottom of this.

[–]ThisReality 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I have and I've blocked a couple people on Spinster for it. I don't bother with the rest of the Fediverse after seeing some of the trash on there.

[–]strawberryfields4evr 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I deleted my account months ago because it felt like there was no way to contain ourselves in one space. And I kind of thought the spaces on Reddit would be a fallback... so much for that! Personally, I haven't seen it but I believe racism exists within the community. This has been a long-standing issue in gender critical spaces (my involvement only goes back to 2012 though so I can't speak to prior to this) because lots of people who are gender critical aren't radfem-aligned and even then... if anyone else remembers the white supremacist/Nazi person from Tumblr, can't think of the name, she decided she wasn't a radfem after all. I think it's important to keep our eyes peeled for it.

[–]DifferentAirGC 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You can see posts from Gab which is a huge hub for white supremacists.

Yeah, that seems more likely. But if people are posting racism in spinster itself, I'd like to see the posts so I can report them.

[–]yishengqingwa666 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Bullshit.

[–]coffeedrinker 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I noticed racism is sometimes swept under the rug even in feminist movements. Like how the GC sub would have white women crying over the term "Karen", even though it referred specifically to a brand of white woman who weaponized their whiteness to step over others. You can subscribe to some radfem ideas without identifying yourself as part of the movement. That's what I do, and I'm a WoC.