A paper on how society hinders the potential of gifted women

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-29T19:53:03+00:00

(My female colleagues didn't treat me differently.)

Interesting how men can be the super catty and jealous ones so often.

And the second thing (lol) is that I've grown to value my empathy more than my intellectual abilities. They go hand-in-hand. Valuing everyone else's abilities and perspective just as highly as your own is more intellectually honest and helps you progress faster, IMO.

:)

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-29T19:42:38+00:00

As gifted women are by nature drawn to creative, independent, intellectual pursuits, they deviate from the norms imposed by the social system.

I come from a family of gifted people and when I was 8 I decided that I would much prefer to be ordinary and happy rather than be a tortured genius. Growing up, I started to realize I would always be "eccentric," no choice about that, but that it made me happy to be ambitious and intellectual. I still don't think I'm "smart smart," just curious about everything, but that is a form of intelligence, I know.

I do wish I had more female friends, though. I work a lot so that plus not having children (yet if ever) makes it hard to connect to women my age, and the friends I had as a Christian young adult are all gone, of course. Sigh.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-26T19:57:50+00:00

They are still intensely hateful. They are damaging women on purpose.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-22T19:52:21+00:00

Wasn't he raised by a single mother who read to him and his siblings all the time and pushed them to think? That may be why...

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-22T17:16:50+00:00

It was Kim, and I wonder how much mental damage trying to deal with that caused her. It sounds like it was very traumatic for her.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-20T21:55:19+00:00

GOOD. That might finally put a stop to this nonsense.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-20T05:55:41+00:00

The hard thing about the current economic system is I would like to volunteer to be there for older women when they have to let men in their houses and pretend to be a relative, keep the guys thinking she always has someone around, but I don't have time. I have to work constantly. I also would like to volunteer to be a patient advocate, as I've learned through doing that for my relatives that I am very good at it and doctors almost always listen to me and treat the patient more thoroughly than they otherwise would (often simply because my relative doesn't know how to express what's going on), but again I simply have no time or energy at all for those I'm not related to.

I wonder if there are tricks and networks radfems could develop, like volunteering to make the appointments for older women and making it seem as if they live there full time but simply have to work during the day... or the old trick of having large dog accoutrements around or big man boots outside the door, stuff like that.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-15T04:30:24+00:00

Haha didn't realize that would be something that might encourage little girls struggling with womanhood. Of course I endorse any excuse to see horses, lol! And yeah, I'm pretty good at wrangling 90 lb haybales, though I always joke I should train the horses to do it for me.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-14T04:43:26+00:00

kick that embryo the fuck out for not paying uterotaxes and grocery money.

lolol!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-12T19:27:27+00:00

I have stopped posting - but now I'm going around silently downvoting our stalker subs, because it's not brigading anymore and I'm petty like that :)

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-12T18:19:05+00:00

Thanks!!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-12T18:18:10+00:00

I spent a week on the floor of my apartment.

Aww, I have had a period of my life like that. It was horrible, awful, terrifying but it was the making of me. I was raised fundamentalist homeschooling Christian and when I was in early 20s things suddenly stopped making sense. I began doing some intense research. I couldn't stop, even as I watched my beliefs unravel before my eyes - I needed to know. I was incredibly depressed and exhausted from the work and for months I used to go into my room and lie down on the carpet before I reached my bed. I'd just stare into space, unable to listen to music or read or anything. When you face yourself and realize you have the courage to do this sort of deconstruction and rebuilding of beliefs, it gives you an unshakeable confidence. I look back and am SO SO grateful for that period of my life. Congratulations on your strength!

And of course you're welcome here!!!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-11T17:49:45+00:00

Don't these idiots ever stop to think that if they don't accept the very reasonable boundaries we put up for them, they're going to run into a REAL backlash from actual right wingers who are actually violent?

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-09T14:46:01+00:00

That's good to know! I know my mother's deliveries really varied in experience, with one of them being almost painless when she had had several pregnancies and knew what to expect. She used to teach breathing and act as a companion during labor to the disadvantaged women we were around, many of whom expected it to be constant screaming and awful pain. Thanks for the input!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-09T05:53:27+00:00

In the past some of our black GC members asked us not to use that argument - though you're right about how similar it is - so I don't use it myself. However I've been seeing a bunch of black women use it on twitter :)

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-09T05:30:28+00:00

True, I was meaning more actual hypnotists. I'm not sure how effective self hypnosis would be for pain control - at least, not for someone like me. They want people not to think about any of the possible bad outcomes of labor, and that would make me SUPER anxious, lol.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-09T04:24:31+00:00

I would go so far as to call it an altered state of consciousness. What stood out to me was how strong a shift I felt in my psyche.

So true! I went to a very experienced, extremely good hypnotist once. He had helped someone I knew a LOT. My husband went with me and sat in on the session. It was nothing like the swinging watch thing people talk about, just very gentle talking with my eyes closed. It did help the issue I was having, and I had good vibes throughout, but I also learned I'm quite suggestible if I allow it. At a different point I asked my husband one evening to help me with some guided meditation to sleep better. He only got a few minutes into describing beautiful nature scenes before I had to tell him to stop, I was way too awake and mentally stimulated. I had VIVID dreams that night.

I do kind of wish hypnotists for birth were a thing - hypnosis can apparently really decrease pain.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-09T04:13:57+00:00

I realize this is harder for women with dark hair... sometimes I shave my legs because I like the smooth feel, but it helps that my family is also a bit lazy about grooming/neuroatypical so don't notice. I wear long pants at work for work reasons so it's never noticed there. Do you get lots of comments or looks when you have hair or is it an anxiety thing?

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-08T20:00:12+00:00

Hoist by their own petard

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-08T18:12:03+00:00

I suppose I should frame it as , "TERFs advocate for trans men, with female bodies," instead of saying they are in our movement?

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-08T17:51:56+00:00

Agreed.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-08T17:50:41+00:00

Central white line is the Abyss. Pink is women, blue is TRA, and they are pushing women to Abyss from all sides.

Oh, thought provoking!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-08T17:38:06+00:00

It's not usually appropriate to interfere much in that area of things, even when related to them. Looking back at my own childhood, some of my most helpful role models were women who openly chased goals, used critical thinking, flouted some gender norms, and were happy. Rather simple in retrospect. If they know you are an accepting and "more liberal" person they may come to you voluntarily.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-08T15:37:22+00:00

Argh it's so complicated, I really wish there was better data.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-08T15:36:23+00:00

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-08T05:42:27+00:00

Yeah, porn has really made it hard for women to relax during sex, for so many reasons. If guys were smarter they'd not push as hard and just keep things light and playful to let us bloom into extremely enthusiastic partners... honest enthusiasm is so sexy compared to performing.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-08T05:07:14+00:00

I don't know if you should be so hard on yourself, it sounds like your instincts alerted you and then the facts backed it up

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T20:35:32+00:00

My grandmothers both were feisty women, one wished she could have been like Amelia Earhart but still lived a life of adventure in a different country and one always said she wanted to go skydiving. They both taught me various life skills and tried to help guide me.

My mother always was happy to see us, spent hours and hours reading us stories (some of my favorite memories), was very thoughtful about designing a life that would be good for me and not just luxurious/easy, put a great deal of time and energy into raising me, and somehow managed to keep me from ever being molested or raped, something which I now realize is a herculean effort.

A neighbor lady I used to do chores for as a teen once heard me talking about a book I had liked but had lost in a move and bought it for me. I will always remember the spontaneous kindness of that sweet old lady.

My first boss was living a very hard life at the time but she was extremely kind to me and helped me find my feet in my first real job.

The quiverfull daughter bloggers who helped me escape the cultic religion I grew up in.

So many others, including you lovely women here who have taught me a HUGE amount!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T17:55:06+00:00

I want to talk about the pain of living around and loving men who struggle to recognize a woman's humanity.

Yeah this has been an eye opening year or so, realizing just how hard it is for men SEE our problems or to FEEL them, even when explained at great length. Then they tone police rightful anger about women's oppression and the next second are yelling fiercely about some random little irritation. I've cut off/cut way down on contact with a lot of dudes and will never see men the same. Why is it SO hard for them to just go "Wow, that sucks, I'm going to do X to try to help your cause." They can spend all this time and money and fury on frivolous game things or social group issues, but can't spare the time for actual injustices that make the world a darker place by existing.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T17:48:44+00:00

Thank you! I'm thinking I should also add in the 4 assaults on guards to the TW total. Math is not my strong point, but I'll try to update the calculations soon.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T17:47:54+00:00

Thanks!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T05:38:16+00:00

If the internet face is getting you down, I suggest you try talking with people IRL... almost everyone peaks in a few minutes when the know the actual stuff going down, that is if they ever bought the lies in the first place.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T05:27:05+00:00

It's not nearly as good as the previous one, which I have not been able to find - OP author can you please repost it??? - but hopefully it's helpful. Math checking and input are appreciated.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T04:26:37+00:00

Several threads with tons of links!

https://saidit.net/s/GenderCritical/comments/53cb/brain_studies_compilation_2018_study_of_2176/

https://saidit.net/s/GenderCritical/comments/52us/an_offering_of_some_of_my_favorite_links_used_to/

https://saidit.net/s/GenderCritical/comments/5643/stats_on_violence_against_women_by_tims/

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T04:23:39+00:00

Yeah, at this point I'm thinking this is an attempt to exert control over us, not a genuine issue.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T04:22:47+00:00

Heh, I think I actually found that article FROM r/GC!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T03:46:35+00:00

I'd be interested, though I'm so short on time in general... but I think I could find some time.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T02:20:55+00:00

Are you going to answer my questions?

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T01:38:54+00:00

This answer is quite frustrating. WHAT are we supposed to be doing? "Other" black women by asking them tons of questions and putting them on the spot? We talked about relationships, jobs, FGM, femicide, misogyny in all its forms, gender vs sex, safe spaces, scientific studies, different beauty standards ie natural hair in the workplace, the way that TRAs use old racist ideas about WOC being masculine and how ridiculous that 8s, racial and sexist bias in healthcare... what are we not doing/doing that's bad?

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T01:16:22+00:00

Can you get specific? There were a lot of women saying "as a Black woman" or "As a Muslim woman," or "As a POC" in threads there, plus a lot of Twitter is WOC. I realize POC have different challenges and needs and I try hard to listen to them, so I'd like to know what exactly/who exactly is acting wrong?

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T01:13:03+00:00

Blacks make up 11-12% of the U.S. population, but I'm sure the percentage on GC was more like 3% (have no way of knowing except by reading between the lines and noting voice absences)

Huh? So you're just "guessing" that they weren't there?

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-07T00:07:09+00:00

I've read these links before and while there's some interesting stuff there, I really really hate people trying to make straight women either "turn gay" or live without sexual satisfaction. There are all kinds of things we can do to try to make women's lives better, including living separately from men and only seeing them for sex if desired, but the straight shaming and conversion therapy needs to stop.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-06T19:39:35+00:00

I think it'll go down for sure, but trans people have two choices: Ally with radical feminists and stop colonizing everything woman + make reasonable compromises so women and girls are not in any danger from them OR be overwhelmed by a coming right wing backlash that will be bloody and set all human rights back decades.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-06T18:45:48+00:00

HAHAHA! Thanks for the laugh

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-06T17:58:29+00:00

Like everyone else is saying, because cluster B disorders and because they have no actual coherent argument. The worst thing to do with cluster Bs, by the way, is let them have their way on everything. Those disorders are so destructive that they need strong containment and frequent slapping down, in a sense, to prevent the kinds of damage they do when unleashed - including if you sympathize too much with BPDs they can spiral into ever greater depression for the pats they get.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-06T17:32:06+00:00

Yeah, at this point I've been accused of transphobia so many times for saying it's impossible to literally change birth sex that the word is starting to mean - to me - that the person I'm arguing with is a bully who hates women.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-05T22:58:11+00:00

I decided I don't care about it. I can see merit to both arguments, but in the long run I don't care and prefer to focus on the big topics rather than be divided.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-05T19:37:28+00:00

You're a good mom.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-05T05:59:57+00:00

That last sentence - so true!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-05T04:19:32+00:00

Not yet, he seems to be just talking about games. I'm sure he's getting pressure.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-04T23:45:20+00:00

I was so happy to see him be brave! And Matthew Lewis seems thus far to have avoided the Cancelling Call. I hope he continues to live up to his character in the movies.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-04T23:39:00+00:00

Yeah, they are mostly killed by long time lovers (not men who are surprised they aren't women) and it's still not as high as the 200 per 100k rate for prostitutes in general. It's terrible there's a murder rate for anyone, but these cry bullies need to quit with the multiple days of remembrance and 'EPIDEMIC OF VIOLENCE' nonsense.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-04T23:37:08+00:00

Oh good grief. Do these evil idiots not realize just how determined such dishonest attacks make their victims?

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-04T18:49:48+00:00

She's SO brave and such a determined feminist!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-04T17:48:19+00:00

Wow, I looked it up and that definitely is a high demand religion to grow up in! There's a kind of weird pride in surviving that and coming out the other side, isn't there?

Sadly, heart attacks and heart procedures almost always result in personality changes and I've noticed from the ones I observe it usually makes them super conservative and even hateful. I've seen it happen multiple times and it's even been studied. At least in that sense he doesn't deserve 100% blame, as it is a physiological thing happening to his body and brain, but still...

Libfems definitely feel like a religious cult nowadays. I was not aware there were other people like me, who questioned things and refused to just blindly accept everything.

Yeah, those people are few and far between in this world, especially now. Christopher Hitchens was still a live when I was questioning my religion and I LOVED watching him debate, it was so refreshing to see someone cheerfully interact with all different kinds of people and give the strongest possible argument for his side without strawmanning (much) the other side.

I think a lot of people become more vulnerable to cults after being in one, but some of us become way less so. Sounds like neither of us wants to ever be stuck like that again!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-04T04:45:07+00:00

Great, thanks!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-04T00:02:12+00:00

Saving these, thanks.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-03T22:59:03+00:00

Sure, I'm quite open about it!

Parents were in ministry so "Extra Christian." Started homeschooling us for reasons like better education, not wanting us to be bullied, etc. Sucked into quiverfull ideology over time, though not quite to the extent others were - we never went dresses only, for example. Both parents are on the autism spectrum, and my dad also has BPD, so that both harmed and helped our development. One younger brother was allowed to dress up in my sister's play bridal outfit, paint his nails, etc., and there was no thought of punishing him for it. (He did turn out to be gay, but they didn't realize they should be "suspicious" of feminine behavior, and encouraged my other brothers to feel free in the same way, they just didn't want to as much).

Both sets of grandparents were old fashioned fundies of the "card games are evil" and "painted nails are slutty" type, so my parents were being very progressive in their own way.

There was a LOT of damaging purity teaching in our household and all our books/media was strongly censored. However, as the rebel in the family I snuck quite a lot of smutty books and believe that was a huge factor in me turning out better balanced than the rest of my siblings.

My father was emotionally abusive to everyone, but I was the scapegoat so got the worst of it. My teen years were a nightmare of nitpicking and scolding and heart racing whenever he was around. Interestingly, when studying dysfunctional families it turns that scapegoat is the best family "role" for getting out of the dysfunction. I have always been extremely ambitious and motivated and the culture tried to stifle me. I was the first to seriously question stuff in my family but a sister followed pretty soon after. For a while we thought about just hiding our true beliefs the rest of our lives - that's how powerful the enmeshment was - but then decided to come out as atheists. I did lose close friends from it, but my family responded better than I expected.

10+ years on, most of my siblings are atheist/agnostic, only one still is a conservative Christian, my parents have changed a lot and my mom while still a Christian is not what I'd call cultic anymore. My father is not really in his right mind and sadly I don't think he ever will be. He should never have been forced to be a "family patriarch," that was all wrong for a fragile abused person with BPD. Everyone in the family is in various degrees of recovery from religious trauma and when I compare where we used to be to where we are now, I'm so happy at how much we are thriving.

I think the hardest part was facing the truth, after that it was almost a piece of cake to learn that I deserve to be happy and to chase what I want, and to work to learn basic social things. I was terrible at attracting men beforehand which I thought meant I was ugly, but turned out it was social anxiety and lack of skills, not being ugly; I learned a lot as I started dating a bunch, fell in love and had a dreadful breakup, then abruptly met my now husband. We have been REALLY good for each other and ignoring the state of the world (haha as if) we're annoyingly happy. So that's my story! Feel free to share yours!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-03T21:11:33+00:00

I made a post with my top fave links here https://saidit.net/s/GenderCritical/comments/52us/an_offering_of_some_of_my_favorite_links_used_to/ Hope that helps!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-03T19:47:48+00:00

Here's one https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-03T19:38:23+00:00

Oh wow, this is amazing! I did not expect such realness - I LOVE it.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-03T18:54:32+00:00

This. Plus, I watched an interview with him, dude is CLEARLY a dude. Body language, voice, body appearance... he's a rampant cheater and he knows it.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-03T18:52:25+00:00

Welcome! Previous feminists were also deeply unpopular but they achieved MASSIVE changes for the better and we can too. It just means we need to talk to everyone we can in real life and do as much as we can in terms of political organizing and pressure. At least the trans dogma is so ridiculous that few people who say they believe it actually do, so I think we may be at a tipping point already.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-03T18:38:30+00:00

I always have these conversations in person. So far have 100% success rate, but that may vary depending on where you live. My friends all know I'm super intense anyway, so they aren't surprised when I have strong opinions that I want to talk about, lol. You could start a number of places, but I usually start with it being a war on women and describe the shelters, prisons, male violence vs female violence rates and the differences in strength, then the terroristic and manipulative tactics they use, which have resulted in Karen White and Yaniv etc, and how they're even taking away even our words to describe our own reality. Usually we'll both agree that we don't care how people dress, but that women need some places to be safe and free of male bodies. The conversation will wander from there.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-03T18:33:51+00:00

This argument that neovaginas are just as good as vaginas because they can take a dick, made by so-called leftist wehuntedthemammoth, is what peaked me after stifling questions for years. It is SO misogynistic to ignore the intricate and amazing system that gives birth to every single one of us and compare it to a hole that I found r/GC that same day. Men like David Futrelle who say things like that reveal just how much they see women as objects.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-02T22:34:09+00:00

Following...

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-02T22:26:05+00:00

Was going to respond to you, but looking at your history I don't want to waste the time. All I will say is read all of https://peaklivingnetwork.org/readings/ if you genuinely are curious.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-02T20:59:49+00:00

Sadly, I believe she has fallen to the cult.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-02T17:35:28+00:00

Thanks, I'll look into it.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-02T17:35:08+00:00

You can search Pharyngula transgender to see all the articles he's written about the topic. If you're familiar with the ill-fated Atheism + days, that gives a background to his efforts. Still, it's super annoying to see him posting extreme strawman arguments about all opponents of self ID are basically evil right wingers.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-02T13:43:29+00:00

Yup. They're at the point of openly wanting to steal our wombs now. We have to fight like hell to beat our enemies, because they are TRUE enemies who hate us in a way most modern people are not used to expecting.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-02T13:41:24+00:00

There's a lot of really cool (and helpful) information about this topic at https://www.hormonesmatter.com/

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-02T13:30:48+00:00

Yeah, they totally should. I was extremely annoyed by Pharyngula deciding, petulantly in my view, that the way to fight the rampant sexism and bigotry in dudebro atheism was by glossing over actual science facts.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-02T13:27:30+00:00

I remember being worried when in the space of a couple years a third of millennials decided they were atheists. Previously only 5% of the US population were atheist and I knew that huge a jump meant people weren't really doing the work and considering it properly - it was just the latest zeitgeist and I wondered what kind of fallout that would lead to. I thought most of them would go back into the original religion, not invent a new one. Sigh.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-02T06:01:26+00:00

Heh, there are several of us former cultic Christians turned atheistic radical feminists (zomg!!!!!) here! I grew up in the homeschool Quiverfull flavor and painfully went through every single thing I believed for a year before deconverting. TRA really does fit the no-charismatic-leader cult criteria to a T.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-02T05:40:44+00:00

Everyone has a horrible first period.

ugh so true. My first period was the day my youngest sibling was born! We were driving to go see the new baby and me, at age 11.5, was really confused as to why I had such a bad stomachache. I thought maybe I was sick or was anxious or something, despite never being prone to stomach trouble before. Then we get to the hospital and I have to go to the bathroom and oops. I felt so pale all day. My baby sibling was glorious and adorable and still is, but it's still a weird thing to me that my body chose that day, like couldn't it have waited a week? Oh well.

Of course the next several years were "wonderful" with two days a month of pain to the point of vomiting and almost passing out, sometimes along with migraines. Eventually they got less vicious, but yikes.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-02T04:01:27+00:00

I was raised super ultra fundie Christian and about a decade ago went through a horrendous year long mental breakdown and deconversion process. I cannot over-stress how terrifying it was to look into things more deeply than I was "supposed to," but ironically a preacher who wrote a bunch of fiction books in the 1800s (George MacDonald) was all about how faith is not faith if you don't grapple with doubt, so I grappled. And lost my faith. And won a priceless willingness to challenge my beliefs and societal beliefs that has made my life so much better. I do think we all need awe and wonder in our lives, whether looking through the Hubble or talking to trees or looking at metaconsciousness of ants or experiencing weird phenomena when it seems like an animal can read your thoughts.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-01T20:05:35+00:00

Most of my libfem friends who claim they believe in "equality" and "support women" don't do anything for women in their personal or professional lives.

So true. A lot of my libfem friends will even talk with great fondness for women mentors they've had who made a big difference in their lives, but I'm not aware of any of them making an effort to be mentors, even though they are of an age and stature to do so now. Much less discuss the real harms of sex work, etc.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-01T19:50:47+00:00

I didn't see them live and don't support those things. If someone is that determined not to love a child based on sex a. they should not have kids and b. if they're determined, use IVF to select the sperm to produce female babies. There were a couple of lesbians who kinda pushed for women to abandon men entirely and "can't you just try liking women," which was about the worst thing I saw. The discussions of female separatism usually just involved logistics of pricing and how the rules would work/how the already existing female only villages were run/what an impossible but nice dream it was.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-01T19:43:37+00:00

I do worry about his mental health on a purely human to human basis, as he does drink a LOT and probably is doing other drugs. I know from my own teen years that forcing oneself to believe lies is incredibly bad for mental health, so hopefully he can find truth and peace.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-01T19:41:55+00:00

Maybe, but the discussions about politics there usually ended with "We can't vote for Trump OR a Dem right now, what third party can we go to/start?" Like, I want to support the Greens myself, but they are very firm about trans "rights", so I really am politically homeless right now. We live in Hellworld right now and it sucks.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-01T18:51:12+00:00

Yup, I will be doing that soon, it'll take a while though - some of them are very long threads.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-01T17:37:32+00:00

Hahaha totally agree!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-01T05:05:57+00:00

Personality disorders, yes those are extremely resistant. Bipolar people tend to go off meds frequently and without telling, BUT the meds do work wonders if taken and there are no meds for personality disorders, not really. So I'd say it's a little unfair to put bipolar at equal risk... of course I'm biased, as have a lovely family member with it who is a joy to be around.

Oh! Another angle on this, about 10% to 19% of untreated bipolar people will commit suicide at some point, which is dreadful, and far higher than the actual numbers for trans people. Yet the bipolar population doesn't go around trying to take rights away from people because otherwise they might commit suicide.

Anyway, outofthefog is a great website, has been very helpful to me in the past!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-07-01T03:21:47+00:00

Where world GC consensus generally be located on the narrowly political spectrum?

As to blank slates? Nature vs nurture? Not sure what the question was.

The Old Forest will ever be a safe space. ;-)

:D With ponies!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-06-30T22:20:58+00:00

I get the impression that pointing out the difference in physiology is somewhat taboo.

Actually GC people discuss it all the time. Liberal feminists would rather pretend everyone is a blank slate, but it's quite clear throughout nature that testosterone has powerful effects, particularly the surges in puberty. Just boysvswomen.com and https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885 are a couple of many many examples of that truth. Thus, why women need some spaces to retreat to and be safe.

P.S. Hi fellow Tolkien fan!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-06-30T20:44:47+00:00

Obviously genital checks cannot be a thing. However, well intentioned trans women should use the men's bathroom. And many trans people advocate against self ID. Why? Because if you say that men are dangerous to trans women (which... severe lack of evidence on that in re: bathroom use, there is no murder epidemic either, and when trans women are killed it's usually by a long time sexual partner so not gay panic) and then you allow self ID, all you're doing is giving bad men ANOTHER place to prey on trans women - and now allowing them to do so to women and girls, also.

Women are not meat shields. Trans activists can campaign for third bathrooms if they want.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-06-30T18:03:39+00:00

I had a lot of arguments with my husband when I found GC. He kept telling me it was a hate sub and after I backed up all my views with solid facts he said well it was a sub for man hatred. I forced him to look at some of the cisprivilege is a lie and thatneverhappens stories and he tapped out super quick, said they were making him sick. I asked him whether we were a hate sub or a righteous anger sub. Eventually, after reassuring him that I wasn't planning on going full man hater and dumping him, he was better able to listen to me and is a TERF now, though still uncomfortable reading our stuff.

I think men are often a lot more easily upset than we realize (John Gottman's research proved they tend to physiologically "flooded" and unable to think way quicker than women do), so arguing in a way that is aware of that can help.

That said, if you give it a period of time and he refuses to discuss it at all and says you're a bigot, then dump his ass and ENJOY LIFE!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-06-30T06:33:51+00:00

I'm glad you're a supporter! Of course we do realize we need men on our side in our struggle for liberation - I don't know how the rules will end up shaking out down here, but if we end up with separate places again, it might be good to have a GenderCriticalEveryone sub for us to talk and strategize on and chat even. It's very cool that you respected the boundary last time.

When it comes to having female only places to talk, Lundy Bancroft at https://peaklivingnetwork.org/readings/ said:

"BUILDING ALLIANCES

Unity between men and women in liberation struggles is a challenge. Sexism, like all forms of oppression, is divisive. The quality of our alliances with women is going to be up to us; women will trust us to the extent that we earn their trust. Every time they work with us, women will be wondering, “Are our concerns going to be gradually pushed aside? ls our leadership going to be undermined? Are our working relationships going to be sexualized? Are we going to feel silent and invisible?” Women have good reason to worry, because these dynamics unfold in almost every mixed-gender organizations, no matter how conscious the men appear to be.

Women pay other prices to have men along as allies; we insist that they temper their outrage, we expect that they should be grateful to us, we demand that they listen to us whine. If we step outside of these habits, and above all stop sexualizing working relationships, we’ll find ourselves gradually less and less on trial.

The quality of our listening will be the other key determinant; our defensiveness is one of the biggest obstacles to effective alliances.

“DIVISIVENESS”

Women who speak bluntly about sexism, or who demand opportunities to gather without men present, get accused of “divisiveness.” These women are not causing divisions. They are, rather, refusing to ignore the divisions that sexism has created, refusing to continue the charade of unity. When women get opportunities for separateness, the possibility for true unity actually increases. Why? Because women gain the centeredness and solidarity to operate from their own reality instead of from pretense. They then come back to their relationships with men able to insist on redefining them, instead of having to accept them on men’s terms.

This same principle holds across all lines of oppression: genuine unity is only possible as we learn to better understand and respect the different experiences of the oppressed, their different cultures, and their different relationships to social power."

The most important part I think is "When women get opportunities for separateness, the possibility for true unity actually increases." I've found it be very true and it's not really a slap at men as much as a centering practice for us, a way to sort of ground ourselves before going back into the battle.

Anyway, welcome to the movement!

CaliforniGinger · 2020-06-30T05:27:10+00:00

That's a tough one, they tend to be like Jameela and have cotton ears. I'd suggest you ask them to define woman, which they will only occasionally try to do. Otherwise they'll give some vague fluffy definition and you can ask them how come all the babies and children and women who have been mutilated, abused, and killed because of their sex weren't allowed to transition out of being female? Were they just not smart enough? Why are they blaming those vulnerable innocents for their own oppression, tortures, and murder? At that point I usually get blocked, but hopefully other people have seen the discussion and it plants seeds.

CaliforniGinger · 2020-06-29T19:35:19+00:00

Oh, so true! I don't know of any country where it's illegal...

CaliforniGinger · 2020-06-29T18:54:37+00:00

Ugh I am HOPPING mad over reddit's choices and am leaving them permanently. #Reddexit day!

CaliforniGinger

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