Apparently TIMs never have male privilege even if they come out very late in life.....

submitted by bradjohnsonishere2 from self.GenderCritical

Got into a mind bending argument with a friend the other day...

Basically, I made the simple statement that TIMs have male-privilege at some point in their lives because they were born male. My friend denied this saying simply, "but they are women". I brought up 'Caitlin' Jenner because it's an easy example, and my friend denied that Caitlin ever had any male privilege.

I then asked my friend about one of our "cis-white-het" friends and she agreed that he has privilege. I said what if he's a woman but he hasn't realized it yet, or he's too scared to come out.

She said "he's not".

I swear the mind hurdles these people have to go through to acknowledge male privilege exists but to then deny that TIMs benefit from it... It's unbelievable.

all 19 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]chrysthefeminist 38 insightful - 3 fun38 insightful - 2 fun39 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

My friend denied this saying simply, "but they are women".

Mary Daly named this aptly - The Strategy of Biggest Lies. Men have been using it for ages.

And we're not supposed to think of them as enemies. Terrible truth - Women give birth, in large numbers, to their own enemies.

[–]MarkTwainiac 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Joseph Goebbels: “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

[–]marmalade 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Your friend thinks that she'll be one of the 'good ones,' blissfully unaware that she's on borrowed time and will sooner or later be on the recieving end of abuse from a 'poor, downtrodden' TIM. Then she'll care! Other women don't interest her.

[–][deleted] 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep. Takes experiences sometimes to get there. We all peak in different ways.

[–]meranii 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They argue that their "pain" of not feeling like the right gender means they never got to enjoy male privilege... which is such a blatant lie.

About your last point, that has never made sense to me either. TRAs go on and on about cis privilege and put down any supposedly cis person who dares speak up with a differing opinion, but how do they know that person is cis? What if that is actually trans person that hasn't had their public "coming out" yet OR is (like they always claim they can) already passing 100%? Any cis could be trans as far as they know. That's why TRAs want people to label themselves as cis vs. trans, so they can put them in the category they can instantly dismiss and talk over. And if you look on social media, it works, so many dummies loudly proclaiming how they're cis and apologizing for their "privilege" and pledging that transpeople will always come first.

[–]cybitch 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Privilege is supposed to be about advantages society gives you over others. What does whether or not you enjoy said advantages have to do with it?

[–]Anonimouse 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If they pass, you just say they have passing privilege.

[–]greenish 23 insightful - 3 fun23 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

This was one of my first peaks when I was still a TIF. I was told by a bunch of TIMs that they had never experienced male privilege because people could sense their magically gendered souls and treated them as women since birth (I knew these guys, it was very difficult to see them as women, even when I believed, and none of them had transitioned yet).

Any privilege they did receive traumatised them because that's not how women are treated, implying that they should be treated worse as 'women', and would be more comfortable with that because of their and the submissive nature of their "female soul essence".

And they saw themselves in female examples, so they said when they saw women around them/in the media being exploited/objectified it affected them just as badly because they identified as a woman, and perhaps even worse because as they would never be treated like that, it was a sign of other people not recognising their gendered soul, which was an extra cross to bare that those badly treated woman could never understand. Oh the humanity!

They also told me that as I had a male 'gendered soul' I had always been male, and therefore always had male privileged, and anything bad that had happened to be because I was female (a lot) had actually happened to a man, proving that these things happened to men too and weren't a female issue. However, these bad things (rape, CSA, etc) were rendered not so bad because of my male privilege, so I needed to STFU about them and in no way imply I had anything in common with other women, because that would be me using my male privilege to speak over them.

[–]TurtleFuzz 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Holy shit. This is insane. I'm so sorry you had to deal with this. I hope you're far removed from these psychos now, and you are getting the support you need.

[–]greenish 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It was a few years ago now and I received Zero support, and a lot of abuse as I desisted. However, I am still fine! In fact better than ever :)

[–]firebird 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Jenner has no male privilege? How many women can cause someone's death, win woman of the year the same year, and then also have people excusing the sexist and homophobic things you say?

People are now even erasing history for Jenner. But no privilege is involved here at all, right?

[–]luckystar 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I call this the magic words. Just say "I'm trans" and poof you are now the most oppressed minority in the entire world. Just say "I'm a woman" and poof you are a woman and always have been. Then go ahead and say you're a man and now you're a man again and always have been.

There was some British musician or something named Zuby who did a great little prank where he got the "world record in women's weightlifting" by claiming he was identifying as a woman during the weightlifting.

e: found it again, link: https://twitter.com/zubymusic/status/1100348562041462784

[–]msteacherlady 12 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know what to say for men who were successful as men and then retire to enjoy the "easy" life of being a woman. But here's my hot take for half of the rest: They had their male privilege and squandered it by being useless self absorbed pizza-roll munching NEETs.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

TIMs denying their male privilege and the invention of "female privilege" - whatever that means that only applies to "cis" woman - was actually one of the things that made me grow more and more angry and distrustful of TRAs.

And that was when I was still identifying as a trans man, hearing that I had male privilege my entire life just for being a TIF made my blood boil!

That wasn't my experience at all, unless male privilege meant being constantly dismissed, talked over, having your ideas stolen by men and watching them receive credit of your hard work, live in constant fear of rape, pregnancy, unwanted male attention, getting sexualized before even growing brests, getting catcalled on your way to school at 14 years old by men that are older than your father, hearing slurs on and off the internet, watching a mediocre man getting a spot you could've received in a job or a school project because he is a man and is perceived as more competent even if you're better than him; not being able to join karate class at young age because it's boys only and maybe girls should be doing something more artsy and delicate like ballet, then watching boys on tv being put on a pedestal for doing something "girly" like they're so brave.. and your efforts going unnoticed over again; having men shame you saying you're full of yourself because you know you're good at something while a man can be an arrogant prick because he is good at something; being expected to always be humble, caring and patient. The list is never ending.. was that my male privilege? Or was it "female privilege" now I'm not trans anymore?

I think the biggest proof of TIMs male privilege is the forgive and forget treatment they get as soon as they claim to be trans. Women's mistakes are never forgotten.

[–]our_team_is_winning 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So your friend has the ability to see the future? She can tell by looking at a man if he might decide to go full AGP years down the road?

Start by asking your friend her definition of "woman" because clearly it doesn't match reality.

[–]coffeedrinker 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This is what confuses me too. It's like a rich person who became poor later in life denying that they ever had class privilege. Just because they identify as women now doesn't mean people didn't perceive them as male, thereby providing them male privilege.

[–]denverkris 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Bruce never has been and never will be a woman. Hes the poster child for AGP and reeks of internalized homophobia.

[–]carvedapple 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is one of the things that makes people peak. It just doesn't make sense at all. I read about it first in this article: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/05/transracialism-article-controversy.html . To my astonishment it's a generally accepted claim among TRA's. No matter how much I try, I just can't see how someone can really think that.

[–]yishengqingwa666 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ditch your moronic friend.