Holocaust denial makes no sense.

submitted by jacques1102 from self.conspiracy

Think about it.The holocaust denier narrative is that after hitler discovered jews wanted to genocide white europeans and rule the world, he kept them safe, and started a war with other european countries.Killing millions of his own fellow europeans while keeps jews safe and allowing them to give birth to more jewish babies so once they grow up they'll continue the jewish extermination plan of white people.Does this sound like someone who wanted to save europe from jews?Even if the conspiracy that jews started the war was true, by that point why not kill them and thin out their numbers so that there's less jews to kill off white people?Why allow more jews and less white people in the world?Holocaust deniers make no sense.

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[–]EternalSunset 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (45 children)

How long does it take to cremate 6 million bodies again?

[–]HibikiBlackCaudillo 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The thing that makes no sense is the mainstream narrative. The true conditions of the camps alone should make anyone question the things the Jews keep telling us but everyone buys the bullshit about them being forced to shit diamonds and stuff. Holocaust Denial isn't even the claim that no one died, It's just the conspiracy theory that the Jews faked or at least greatly exxagerated the kill count and the methods of the kills so that they would seem cruel to others for their own ends:

  1. The Haavara Agreement, the plan from the National Socialists and Zionist Jews to send the Jews to Palestine. There were several other attempts by the National Socialists to deport the Jews from Germany over time, but nobody wanted the Jews in their countries.

  2. The Germans used the terms "Extermination", "Final Solution/Endlösung" very often when it came to dealing with the Jews, but they always talked about deportation plans.

  3. According to the World Almanac The Jewish population before, during and after the war barely changed and even increased at first.

  4. Despite cracking The Enigma Code, the British forces found no record of killings by gassing, the supposed main method use for the genocide.

  5. Fred A. Leuchter, expert in execution hardware said in his report that the alleged killing rooms could not have been used as homicidal gas chambers.

  6. Elie Wiesel, probably the most famous “Holocaust Survivor” makes no mention of gas chambers in his book “Night.”

  7. The International Red Cross report of 1948 found no indication of an extermination plan, despite the claim that it supposedly said the Germans cunningly hided that some facilities were gas chambers.

  8. The testimonies from "Holocaust survivors" that tell the truth about the conditions of the camps. The Jews had access to swimming pools for exercise, theathers, whore houses and participated in soccer games.

  9. The true maximum cremation capacity at Auschwitz-Birkenau is far lower than what we are always told.

  10. Himmler's order on Dec. 28, 1942 to reduce the death rate in the camps as a priority.

  11. The SS report of 1943 about the decline of the mortality rate to the Reichsführer.

  12. The British foreign secretary statement about not being willing to take the Jews in their country in 1943.

  13. Himmler's deportation proposal of 1944 in exchange for goods.

  14. Elie Wiesel claimed in his book “Night” that he chose to purposely stay with the Germans when the Soviets came and that he was having a sore leg treated in the hospital at the camp, which wouldn’t make any sense considering it was at the very end of the war when the mass killings supposedly reached their peak.

  15. George S. Patton claimed that the Germans were the only decent people left in Europe and all the Allies really managed to do was give room for the Soviets to take over everything, saying that the US had fought the wrong enemy.

  16. The Allied autopsies confirm that disease was the main cause of death.

  17. The Holocaust and the 6 million figure showing up in different places before WWII. Six million Jews supposedly died in WWI as well, but probably because of the absurdity of the claims, the stories were eventually dropped but the figure of the 6 million Jews being in terrible danger can be seen in different places before ending up in Germany again. It can also be related to a passage from the Tohra, which can be interpreted as “six” of them having to go missing in order for them to be purged from their sins, so they can go back to Israel.

David Cole on Holocaust Revisionism (2018)

Basically, the Germans never embraced the genocide agenda as part of their policies and yeah, the ridiculous conditions of the camps with whore houses and theathers lasted all the way until at least 1944, things changed for the worst when the Allies tried bombing Germany into the stone age. This doesn't mean that the Germans didn't kill any Jewish civilians for no reason, even if they didn't embrace the genocide part the persecution that the Jews suffered was still legit, but I myself tend to lean towards the idea that the true kill count is really low when compared to the 6M figure. (My own is that It's between 0-10,000 non-justified civilian deaths)

But basically, figuring out the exact kill count isn't all that neccesary. Just presenting enough evidence to defend low enough figures and criticize the Jews for the exaggerationism of the crime is enough. With my own research, I find the idea of 100,000 kills to be way too much of an exaggeration. Even if we take that figure and double it or triple it, a lot of claims can be made about the exaggerationism of the crimes. I'm not saying such figures aren't horrible but rather, they objectively aren't the worst crime in history, or even within the war itself. So why do the Jews continue to receive so much benefits from their victim status?

With this being revealed, there are many ways that the Jews can actually be pressured into losing more social and political power. I'll even create a sophisticated nationalist movement over here when it comes to this eventually.

Make sure to visit s/ConspiracyTrace and s/ConspiracyRecord to see my research and share interesting content.

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So most Jews weren't killed in the camps.

The fact you don't realise that undermines all your other points.

[–]KyleIsThisTall 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Most jews weren't killed. The ones that died were killed because the soviets, who were kikes, destroyed supply lines for medicine and basic food stuffs.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank God your savior hitler allowed jews to live while killing millions of white people.Hitler really wanted to save europe from those evil jews by safely allowing them to live and give birth to more jewish babies while bombing millions of whites to oblivion.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The thing that makes no sense is the mainstream narrative. [...]

Jeez. So much disinformation in your post. I'm not going to go through all 17 points, but here's a few.

(1) What about the Haavara Agreement? Do you think that people and governments can't change their plans? The Nazis changed their plans from forced deportation to extermination over the course of the war.

(4) Enigma was used for military communication, not the internal deliberations among the Nazi leadership. And gassing was not even close to the main method used in the genocide. About 19% of the Jews who were killed were gassed.

(5) Fred Leuchter was a conman and fraud. I mean that literally. He was a crook and a fraud and his supposed investigation into Auschwitz is pure junk of no value whatsoever except as an example of incompetence and fraud in action.

(6) "Night" is a fictionalised account of Elie Wiesel's experiences, not intended to be read as every word the literal truth. For instance, it is unlikely that more than a tiny handful of people were literally killed by being thrown alive into the crematoria. That is a metaphor. The word "Holocaust" itself means a burnt offering. Wiesel's book is about his loss of faith. Describing people as if they were sacrificed to god like a piece of meat goes with the theme of the book.

(8) There were thousands of concentration camps, running for over a decade, and conditions varied enormously between them depending on where and when the camp was, its purpose, and who was in charge. Yes, some concentration camps had better conditions than others. What of it?

(13) It was Eichmann, not Himmler, and what of it? You think that Nazis couldn't decide to let a tiny fraction of their victims go in an exchange for goods they needed?

(16) Yes, disease and starvation was the largest killer of the Holocaust victims, about 32% or so. But this was not a mere consequence of war, "bad things happening everywhere, we tried our best but they still died", it was a deliberate policy of malicious neglect to let disease and famine kill as many people as possible. Around another 25 million people died of neglect, hunger and disease around the world as a direct consequence of the war, but they aren't counted as Holocaust victims because they didn't die from intentional, deliberate policy.

My own is that It's between 0-10,000 non-justified civilian deaths

And how precisely do you come up with that figure? Pulled it out of your arse?

There are more than 10,000 victims who died after the liberation of the concentration camps, so Allied troops watched them die. (You might be shocked to learn that people on death's door, dying of hunger and disease and neglect, don't magically recover instantly just because their captors run away and they are liberated.)

There are far more than 10,000 victims whose bodies have been found in mass graves. The Nazis tried very hard to destroy as many of the bodies as they could, but even so, there are still thousands of bodies found. There were 22,000 bodies found in mass graves in Odessa from just one German and Romanian massacre of Jews in October 1941. A few months later, a second massacre killed around 50,000 Jews.

There are transportation records of far more than 10,000 victims who were transported to the extermination camps, never to be seen alive again. If they weren't killed, where did they go? Narnia?

So we have over 70,000 victims from just two massacres in one city. Your figure of less than 10,000 is idiotically low.

[–]twolanterns 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

figure trainload 5000-7000 at a time, a train or two a day to the extermination camps - how many days to do that to reach several million ? 1942-44

add in german efficiency

[–]KyleIsThisTall 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

What extermination camps? There weren't any.

[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Then explain the hundreds of acres of soil absolutely filled with ash and human bone fragments that can still be found to this very day.

[–]twolanterns 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

you do know that when you get to hell, General Patton (who witnessed the extermination camps first hand) is going to slap your face off.

[–]KyleIsThisTall 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He didn't because even he admitted it was a lie which is why they assassinated him.

[–]jet199 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Depends if you use a crematorium or a big outdoor barbecue.

[–]twolanterns 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

which is effectively what they did exhuming the bodies simply buried - using up scarce fuel when there were shortages near the end of the war - prioritized to try to get rid of the evidence

[–]KyleIsThisTall 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Why would they waste fuel? Ridiculous! Also they had stockpiles of nerve gas yet they supposedly used insecticide that can't kill humans to... Kill humans??? RIDICULOUS! WOODEN DOORS!!!

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Amateurs who play chess think one move ahead. Good amateurs think two moves ahead. Chess Masters think 10 or 20 moves ahead.

Holocaust Denialists are amateurs who think one move ahead. The Germans were professionals who were thinking a dozen moves ahead.

Why would they waste fuel? Ridiculous!

Amateurs think that it was wasting fuel. Professionals know that hiding the evidence of the crimes was far more important to the Nazi leadership, especially when they realised that they might lose the war. PR and covering your ass was as important then as it is now.

Amateurs think that you need a huge amount of fuel to burn bodies. Sure, if you do it wrong.

Professionals know that if you design the fire properly, allow plenty of air, and keep it running 24 hours a day, it doesn't need much fuel.

Domestic crematoria burn one corpse at a time. Efficiency is not needed. A lot of fuel is wasted heating up the crematorium from room temperature, the body is cremated, then it is left to cool again. Very inefficient, but people do insist on not mixing up their loved-ones' ashes with those of other people.

The Nazis didn't care about that. They built crematoria designed to run continuously, able to take dozens of corpses at a time. Much, much more efficient. But not efficient enough: they had too many corpses even for those. So they designed open-air burning pits that could take hundreds of corpses at a time, and run 24 hours a day for weeks at a time, operating on mostly human fat with a little bit of oil and alcohol to get the fires started.

German ingenuity and engineering excellence applied to the problem of burning thousands of corpses a day. They were professionals, not amateurs. They knew how to build a self-sustaining fire using the proteins, fats and oils in the corpses as fuel. The problem isn't that much different from burning green wood: get the wood hot enough to evaporate the water, and it will catch fire and provide enough heat to evaporate the water from the next piece of green wood.

They didn't need a lot of fuel, just enough to get the fire started and ignite the first few corpses. Even emaciated bodies contain enough protein, oils and fats to burn itself to ash, provided you can get the fire hot enough to start. By interleaving the bodies of healthy victims and starved victims, and collecting the molten fat that ran off and pouring it back over the bodies, the fires were self-sustaining with only a modest amount of fuel needed to start the process.

they had stockpiles of nerve gas yet they supposedly used insecticide that can't kill humans

Amateurs think that "nerve gas" is better just because it sounds scarier. Professionals know that using commercially available insecticides available off the shelf in 1940 was better.

The Tabun nerve gas had many problems:

  • It was expensive and difficult to make which is why Germany only managed to make 12,500 tons.
  • They had severe problems with it degrading during storage.
  • The army wanted to keep it as a deterrent in case the Allies attacked with poison gas.
  • It can be slow acting: even a fatal dose can take 1-2 hours to kill a person.
  • It required special training and equipment to use, and was very hard to adapt to mass murder.

Cyanide-based Zyklon-B was much cheaper, could be purchased from civilian manufacturers as a ready-to-use product, was much easier to handle, and more certain in its effects: it killed in under 20 minutes. It was anything but inefficient. It was easy to handle, could be used with a minimum of training, it was much safer to dispose of the corpses (the Sonderkommandos typically only needed to wear gas masks to handle the dead).

Despite what you say, it was absolutely deadly to humans. It produced cyanide, a deadly poison. It was not one of our modern, 21st century insecticides that are relatively safe to humans. It was old-school.

Also, I daresay that Hitler got a kick out of using insecticide to murder people that he thoughts of as parasites like lice and ticks.

[–]HiddenFox 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It was not one of our modern, 21st century insecticides that are relatively safe to humans. It was old-school.

I work with chemicals. We have a fungicide from the 1970s. 1 gram per 1000L of water and your done for a whole growing season! The new stuff, 80-120 grams per 1000L of water and then a respray 2 weeks later. (Another 80 - 120 grams) May have to reapply in 6-8 weeks.

Old schools stuff is no joke!

[–]KyleIsThisTall 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

leftist meme wall

Found the female chess player

[–]twolanterns 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Zyklon B produced hydrogen cyanide which is very fatal when inhaled

and actually some of the extermination camps gas chambers used diesel engines to produce carbon monoxide as the killing gas

[–]KyleIsThisTall 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Lol you actually believe that

Fo you think wooden doors could keep in any of those funes? Zyklon b is at worst an irritant to humans because it is far too diluted. And how could the doors be locked if they opened inwards?

[–]twolanterns 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

you havent a clue what cyanide does then - it originally was a fumigant for entire building s to get rid of vermin in all the nooks and crannies

and yes if they had wooden doors that sealed it would work - though the gas chambers had metal doors and then evacuation fans to clear the air before the bodies could be removed

And how could the doors be locked if they opened inwards?

you dont have a home door that opens inward that can be locked from either side ???

seriously get better material than this

[–]KyleIsThisTall 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

LOL no they did not. They had wooden doors. And they swung inward to open. And it would take several times the amount of Zyklon B used to kill even a single large mammal such as a human. And that's without the loss of efficacy caused by low temperatures such as are standard in Poland during the winter. You're just a brainwashed kike slave.

[–]twolanterns 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

the right to not to talk to the village idiot

you have opened your mouth and made us sure

Auf Wiedersehen

[–]KyleIsThisTall 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Notice how you just resort to childish name calling rather than refute my claims, but we all know that is because I presented undeniable facts that are well documented.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

using up scarce fuel when there were shortages near the end of the war - prioritized to try to get rid of the evidence

Not actually that much fuel was needed, if you get corpses hot enough to catch fire they contain their own source of fuel (mostly fat). See my response here.

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

88 minutes

[–]makesyoudownvote 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Let's ask the Hawaiians.

[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Too soon!

[–]transbob 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Burying 6 million bodies?

Default (GPT-3.5)

User If I wanted to bury 6 million human bodies how big would the hole need to be

ChatGPT I can't assist with that.

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

The standard means of transport was a 10-metre long (32 ft 9+3⁄4 in) freight car, although third class passenger carriages were also used when the SS wanted to keep up the "resettlement to work in the East" myth, particularly in the Netherlands and in Belgium. The SS manual covered such trains, suggesting a carrying capacity per each trainset of 2,500 people in 50 cars, each boxcar loaded with 50 prisoners. In reality, however, boxcars were routinely loaded to 200% of capacity, or 100 people per car.[40] This resulted in an average of 5,000 people per trainset. During the mass deportation of Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto to Treblinka in 1942, trains carried up to 7,000 victims each.[41]

In total, over 1,600 trains were organised by the Reich Ministry of Transport, and logged mainly by the Polish state railway company taken over by Germany, due to the majority of death camps being located in occupied Poland.[42] Between 1941 and December 1944, the official date of the closing of the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex, the transport/arrival timetable was 1.5 trains per day: 50 freight cars × 50 prisoners per freight car × 1,066 days = ~4,000,000 prisoners in total.[19]

On 20 January 1943, Heinrich Himmler sent a letter to Albert Ganzenmüller, the Under-secretary of State at the Reich Transport Ministry, requesting: "need your help and support. If I am to wind things up quickly, I must have more trains."[43] Of the estimated six million Jews exterminated during World War II, two million were murdered on the spot by the military, Waffen-SS, Order Police battalions and mobile death squads of the Einsatzgruppen aided by and the local auxiliary police. The remainder were shipped to their deaths elsewhere

[–]twolanterns 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

there were 5 million others killed - non jews - murdered or worked to death (or of disease/starvation) and possibly 2 million Russian POWs treated the same way

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I'd find it unlikely for the Germans to find a million non-Jew enemies of the state to murder, whereas identifying Jews was easy. What is the advantage of denying the Holocaust numbers? If the point is to show Jews have historically been assholes, that's not exactly news. Jews have been historically quite intelligent (lots of Nobel laureates) and the more intelligent one is, the more evil one can be.

If you search for a website with title "Holocaust Facts: Where Does the Figure of 6 Million", you will find that the "six million" ia not very precise, but there is a project collecting individual names that's already above 4 million, even though it's suspected to have some double countings. If that database were a fake, you could easily just demonstrate 1000 names or even ten thousand with the huge army of neo-nazis that supposedly exists to show it is fake, right? Except, that's not what happened. In short, denying the numbers is kind of pointless.

I suppose you are going to deny Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine as well, right? I think historical records are in a way irrelevant. If you can even show that a large group was murdered by some state apparatus, I'd recommend to genocide the entire population associated with that apparatus as a precaution. If that had happened in the past, Russia would not exist, Turkey would not exist, China would not exist, North-Korea would not exist, Germany would not exist, etc. There could actually be peace on Earth. Who could be against that?

[–]yellowsnow2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I suppose you are going to deny Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine as well, right?

History always gets manipulated. This statement shows you just believe what you are told.

In 2014 the Ukrainian democratically elected president was removed by force by "the people who elected him" LOL. Typical CIA/ globalist regime change coup. In reality the coup happened because the elected president would not join the EU and thus submit Ukraine's sovereignty to the globalists that were already talking about putting NATO bases on Russia's border at that time.

Then they installed an un-elected interim government, later found to be helped picked by US politicians. The first orders of this installed government were to use the Ukrainian military on it's own citizens murdering those that resisted the coup. Targeting mainly Ukrainian ethnic Russians which were almost the exact eastern half/50% of the country. They got away with this genocide with the help of American corporate media and the talking point of only murdering "Russian backed separatists" to where Russia had to militarily create an escape route for them to flee genocide to Russia.. The Ukrainian citizens they were murdering after the first wave had to flee their homes was 2 different militias made up of Ukrainians that refused to submit to the coup. They later declared their parts of Ukraine soveign from the globalist's coup and annexation going by the names People's Militia of the Donetsk People's Republic and the People's Militia of the Luhansk People's Republic.

Why were ethnic Russians there?

Kiev Ukraine is the historic homeland of ALL the "Kievian Rus" peoples since around the 600s AD and was the capitol of the Russian empire for almost a thousand years. The "Rus" in Russia and Belarus comes from Kievian Rus. You are watching the history of an entire ethnic people being conquered , erased, and they seem to be going after all that are left for a full ethnic cleansing.

Russia is the last strong hold preventing the globalist from world domination with their New World Order where you will own nothing like a slave and eat bugs. This was planned for no less than 70 years. Full info here.

https://saidit.net/s/conspiracy/comments/at5y/the_one_postone_post_that_contains_all_of/

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The little green men that invaded were paid by the Russian state, which has been admitted by the Russian state, which invalidates everything you have said.

[–]yellowsnow2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What I said is fact and history going back 1400 years. Nothing you said rewrites history.. The mainsteam view of history on wikipedia is only sourced by media corporation propaganda.

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The problem with your world view is that it assumes a competent government, whereas nothing the government has ever done can be considered as such.

The US can't even maintain their physical infrastructure.

The US is trying to make it not require a commercial third party piece of software anymore to do taxes; something that has been common in many European countries for close to a decade. The US banking system is at least a decade behind various European systems. So, you expect me to believe that the US selectively acts like a moron, but secretly is super smart?

The design of US suburbs is a dystopia. Please, explain how the US is doing anything right at this moment. The US can't even kill insider trading in Congress, which is illegal in every sane part of the world. Every European country has a younger leader than Biden.

The US education system is biased towards rich people, which means the previously "prestigious" institutes are now nothing more than piggy banks without anything of value.

The only working part of the US economy is its military,

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

CC u/twolanterns your figures are too low.

I'd find it unlikely for the Germans to find a million non-Jew enemies of the state to murder, whereas identifying Jews was easy.

You think that they couldn't identify Poles in Poland? You think that people in Europe didn't have identity papers?

Maybe it was beyond their ability to go to a village in rural Russia and identify that the villagers there were Russian, "Sure, they look Russian, and sound Russia, and are living in Russia, but maybe they're Italian, if only there was a way to be sure...".

In Western Europe, most of them were arrested by local authorities, then handed over to the Germans to be shipped east. Especially in France, where the Vichy puppet state was an enthusiastic collaborator with the Nazis.

There were at least 15 million victims of the Holocaust, probably around 17 million, were murdered by the Nazis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims), perhaps as many as 20 million. Much of the argument about numbers comes down to definitions: for example, do we count civilians executed in Nazi reprisals as part of the Holocaust, or separately?

Proportionally, the Gypsies were the most heavily persecuted, although there weren't that many of them so they don't make up a large number of victims, perhaps only half a million. The Jews weren't even the single largest group: peoples of the Soviet Union were, with about 9 or 10 million murdered. That does not include combat deaths, but it does include around 3 million Soviet POWs murdered.

The concentration camps didn't just take Jews. They also took:

  • Poles (2-3 million or so, excluding Polish Jews)
  • Soviet POWs
  • Russians, Slovenes and other Slavs
  • Sinti and Roma (gypsies)
  • trade unionists
  • members of the local communist parties
  • other political prisoners and "enemies of the state"
  • Freemasons
  • Jehovah's Witnesses
  • homosexuals
  • even some ordinary criminals.

Prior to the war, the Nazis started their murder spree with a program of involuntary euthanasia against the mentally ill and other disabled people in Germany. About a quarter of a million of them were murdered.

Most of the victims were indirectly murdered, by malign neglect, starvation and disease, or by being worked to death on starvation rations. Many were executed for breaking concentration camp rules, or beaten to death by camp guards out of sadism or on a whim. The actual extermination camps, designed to do nothing but murder people on an industrial scale, weren't built until 1942, and only lasted about a year and a half two years before the German leaders got cold feet about them being discovered and ordered them shut down and the evidence destroyed. In the USSR, most of the victims were killed by mobile killing squads.

I'd recommend to genocide the entire population associated with that apparatus as a precaution. ... There could actually be peace on Earth.

Nice try Adolf.

Seriously, that was the same argument Hitler made.

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Jehovah's Witnesses

These people literally brainwash handicapped people. Why would anyone want to keep them around? Perhaps not every member would have to go, but certainly the leadership.

Seriously, that was the same argument Hitler made.

Is that in Mein Kampf? Was he wrong? Why? Perhaps eliminating those Poles was a good step that makes Poland a better country today. (I don't know, but it's probably possible to measure the Hitler effect and see whether Poland is more efficient. That is, it should be possible to provide an objective answer. )

If a member of any of those groups ever hurt some voter for Hitler, I don't blame those people. If there were a political party that would kill every violent asshole the first day after they got elected, I'd give them my vote, but such parties aren't going to exist, because most politicians (and most people) are themselves such assholes.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

These people literally brainwash handicapped people.

No more or worse than any other religion.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I suppose you are going to deny Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine as well

https://www.euronews.com/2023/03/16/murder-torture-and-rape-but-no-genocide-the-uns-latest-report-on-ukraine

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do you know people that work for the UN? I do.

These people are fucking retards. If you see them as an authority, then you are even more stupid.

What do you think happened to the Ukrainians living on Crimea? https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/crimea-tatar-persecution-russia-ukraine-war-genocide/

The playbook for Russia is to move some Russians into a country, then say they need to protect those Russians, then bring in the military to murder the rest of the population (along with destroying the native culture and erasing history), and finally redraw the border. Of course that is genocide.

Stalin was already in the deportation game and this just continues until today.

Israel is doing the same thing on a smaller scale, but one could argue that the Arabs in Israel were the invaders to begin with and don't really have any rights to be there. It just depends on how many years (I think in one interpretation it's literally thousands of years) you go back in time.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What do you think happened to the Ukrainians living on Crimea? https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/crimea-tatar-persecution-russia-ukraine-war-genocide/

OpenDemocracy are US shills funded by George Soros. They're not credible or trustworthy. They're basically just a propaganda arm of the US Democrats.

[–]twolanterns 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

you never heard of the forced labor the nazis did - grabbing citizens of the countries they conquered and occupied to use for war production ?

those were treated little better than the jews subjected to forced labor --- subjected to starvation rations, disease conditions, brutality, dangerous/harsh work, prison conditions

a million or two russian POWs were treated very much like the jews

for the rest stick to the subject

[–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'd not equate a POW with a citizen. Why do you?

[–]twolanterns 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

most of the jews murdered werent german citizens either

murder is murder

working someone to death while starving them is, regardless

dont leave the country, cuz out there you aint a citizen ....

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's assuming they all die by burning but ok.Why didn't hitler kill them if he was trying to save the white race while declaring war on almost all of europe.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why do you think that question is relevant? Its not.

[–]TheMaharishi 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

One time I saw a list of estimated numbers of how many Jews died in the "holocaust". There were like 25 different. Number one 6 million, number two 2 million, number three 1 million. Then it fell off even harder. Lowest estimate was about 20k.

Isn't it weird that the highest estimate ever made by a historian. Has become the undeniable truth. When the average estimate is maybe 100-50K.

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The 6 million figure includes Jewish soldiers killed in the various armies and those killed in other counties by their own fascist movements while under German occupation, that's why there's a variation in figures.

There weren't many Jews in Germany so if you only count them you get the lower figures. Most Jews killed were from Eastern Europe.

The Germans starved to death 3 million Russian POWs in camps before they sent Jews to the same place (something which never gets denied for some reason even though it's also a huge number of dead bodies to process). The estimated number of Jewish people in the Russian POWs murdered is added to the holocaust figures.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The 6 million figure includes Jewish soldiers killed in the various armies and those killed in other counties by their own fascist movements while under German occupation

No it doesn't. The figure of six million is for deaths in the concentration camps and summary executions and murders of civilians, excluding partisans and soldiers, and not including civilian collateral damage.

There is also something like an additional million Jews killed by the Croatian and Romanian fascist governments, independently of the Nazi Holocaust. They're not usually included in the figure of 6 million.

There weren't many Jews in Germany so if you only count them you get the lower figures. Most Jews killed were from Eastern Europe.

That is correct. By 1939 or so, there were only about 300,000 Jews left in Germany. Most of the rest had already fled.

Most of the Holocaust victims were from eastern Europe, especially Poland and the USSR.

To the 6 million Jewish victims, you can add another 9-11 million Poles, Russians, Slavs, gypsies and others.

  • There were almost 6 million Russian and other Soviet Union civilians killed (plus about 1.3 million Soviet Jews counted in the 6 million Jewish victims).
  • Plus about 3 million or so Soviet POWs.
  • Plus about 2-3 million non-Jewish Poles.
  • About half a million Serbs.
  • Perhaps the same again for Gypsies (Roma and Sinti).
  • A quarter of a million disabled and mentally ill people.
  • And maybe another hundred thousand or so of various other groups.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

One time I saw a list of estimated numbers of how many Jews died in the "holocaust". There were like 25 different.

Oh, you saw a list did you? A list, who knows where, compiled by fuck knows who, from what sources?

Lowest estimate was about 20k.

Any dickhead can "estimate" a number of deaths. The important question is, how did they get that number? Why should we take it seriously?

In that 20K case, the number was pulled out of his arse-hole. We know the names of far more than twenty thousand Jewish victims, people who have been identified. The Allies found more than twenty thousand unburied corpses when they liberated the camps. More than twenty thousand victims died of disease after the Allies liberated the camps. (People dying of starvation and disease don't magically get better instantly just because the camp is liberated.)

Isn't it weird that the highest estimate ever made by a historian

It would be weird, if it were true but it isn't.

Six million is the consensus estimate, not the highest. That means that dozens of historians have independently come up with similar figures around the six million mark, and the consensus between them is that six million or so is around about the right number.

Earlier estimates went up to nine million jews, but that was too high as it accepted Polish government figures of 4 million Jews dead at Auschwitz alone. Even at the time that number seemed too high, most historians disagreed, and today there is almost universal agreement that the correct figure is about 1 million, not 4, at Auschwitz.

the average estimate is maybe 100-50K.

Not even close.

[–]Alphix 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Hitler clearly stated that he would NEVER let his beautiful Aryan Germans stoop to the level of the Jews and thus, there was only one final solution ever: DEPORTATION. Hence, camps until deportation could be done.

He also didn't want WORLD WAR TWO, he wanted to protect his Germans and also destroy communism. Then he got attacked from the West by the traitor from the UK whose forces he allowed to retreat as a gesture of recognition that the UK and Germany were natural allies.

And look where we are today, with communism on the cusp of taking over the entire world, and nobody bats an eye.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Where exactly did hitler state this?The way you say hitler wouldn't allow people to kill jews sounds really pathetic.How is he protecting europe by declaring war on almost all of europe?Even if hitler didn't want war why not kill as many jews to thin out their numbers possible to prevent many anti white jews in the world?If communism is taking over the entire world today then blame hitler for not exterminating them because it would be impossible for them to rule the world now if he thinned out their numbers.

[–]Alphix 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So we're going to blame Hitler because the entire world united against him. Deep thoughts.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If jews are so powerful that they can convince the entire world to be against him then does that makes them the master race?Why didn't hitler use his aryan charm to convince the allies?Hitler would of never of bombed london if he wanted to let the U.K know he was on their side.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So we're going to blame Hitler because the entire world united against him.

Aside from

  • their allies (the Axis powers) Italy, Romania, Japan, Thailand, Hungary, Bulgaria, Finland, the Slovak Republic and Croatia;
  • collaborators in occupied countries including Vichy France, Ukraine and many more;
  • sympathetic neutral countries that continued to deal with Nazi Germany, including Switzerland, Spain, Portugal, Iran and many more;
  • and many more neutrals who stayed out of the war altogether.

It was Hitler's choice to invade Poland, Belgium and France. It was Hitler's choice to invade the USSR before he defeated or made peace with Britain, and it was Hitler's choice to declare war on the USA. He made his own troubles.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hitler clearly stated that he would NEVER let his beautiful Aryan Germans stoop to the level of the Jews

No he didn't.

there was only one final solution ever: DEPORTATION.

Early in the 1930s Hitler and the Nazi leadership did consider deportation, but as they entered the war their plans changed to extermination.

And not just against the Jews. They also attempted genocide against Poles, and especially Russians and other Slavs.

he got attacked from the West by the traitor from the UK

Way to go to just skip over German's dismembership of Czechoslovakia, and the unprovoked invasions of Poland, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg.

communism on the cusp of taking over the entire world

Delusion level 11 out of 10.

You have no idea what communism is, do you?

[–]KyleIsThisTall 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Hitler was Christian. He thought unnecessary deaths were immoral. They lied about him. How did the jew population increase from 15 million to 15.5 million? No way mih 6 gorrillion were genocided.

[–]HibikiBlackCaudillo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He was a Christian at first. But I think both him and Himmler eventually started to see Christianity as being opposed to National Socialist ideology? Basically, they started to lean towards "dialectical materialism", if I remember right.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So good old saint Hitler didn't want to kill jews because it was immoral but declared war on almost all of europe and bombed the hell out of millions of europeans to save europe from jews?Got it.So why do you worship a person who increased jews numbers while decreasing whites through war?

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hitler was Christian. He thought unnecessary deaths were immoral.

What a load of bollocks. Hitler thought that war made nations strong. He had a real hard-on for war.

Hitler pretended to be Christian for PR, but actually held Christianity in contempt as a religion good only for slaves. No "turn the other cheek" for der Führer.

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

Hitler never said jews were trying to genocide whites.

"White people" was not in the lexicon until the American civil rights movement. They were Germans. More brawdly they were aryans. Hitler did not consider non germans to be his people. There was never such a thing as a cohesive white race.

What hitler wanted to do is simply expel jews from germany just as they have been expelled feom 190 or so other countries throughout history.

His reasons were essentially the same as everyone elses. Jews were not strong enough back then to do the things they do now.

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

The vast majority of the Jews killed weren't German.

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

What is the argument here exactly? Do you realize that it is your western indoctrination that has made you believe that the war was all about jews? That the reality is jews were the smallest casualty group?

The vast majority of people killed were Russians. Russia was run by the bloshevic party. The bolshevic party was run by jews.

With their control of Russia jews killed 100x more innocent white people than germans killed jews.

The attempt to remove jews from power in germany and the attempt to expand germany are two separate agendas.

Once you realize that the Amarican concentration camps for the Japanese and the german concentration camps for everyone they thought would become "terrorists" during the war are the exact same thing then you can start to get a realistic picture of what really happened.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

So 6 million is impossible but jews somehow killed 100 million people in a few years?This is why no one believes holocause deniers, you contradict yourselves by saying "It's impossible for 6 million jews to die in a few years, but jewish bolsheviks killed 100 million white while hiding all the bodies."

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

So 6 million is impossible but jews somehow killed 100 million people in a few years?

It sounds like you don't understand why 6 million is impossible. It is not because 6 million is a large number. It is because there is zero evidence, no bodies, and the facilities that existed could not perform that feat. There is a mountain of evidence that disproves that claim.

The bolshevics controlled russia for far longer than the war and genocided the russian people with famine, communist class warfare, and sending russians into the battlefield without ammo or guns to be slaughtered.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Do you dispute that gas chambers were discovered at Dachau, Sachsenhausen, and Majdanek? Do you dispute the existence of Nazi Germany's forced euthanasia operation, or it's expressed intention to exterminate various groups of people, including the Jews? Do you have any reason to dispute the validity of Adolf Hitler's letters to Karl Brandt, authorizing Aktion T4, which bear his handwriting?

There is no shortage of hard evidence for what the Nazis did, and where they could, they would proudly admit to it, sometimes as early as the 1930s.Also you say there's no evidence of bodies but where are the bodies of all those people that died in Russia?Where is the documented evidence of what the bolsheviks did?Eye witnesses?Documents?

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Do you dispute that gas chambers were discovered

Short answer is yes. The showers that are claimed to be gas chambers could not have been.

Did you know that the supposed gas chambers were not "discovered" during the liberation of the camps?

Did you know that the only evidence for those gas chambers came from testimony by jews? That dispite meticulous documentation of everything by the germans there is not one shred of evidence for them in any document?

Did you know that half of the concentration camps were controlled by allies after the war and the other half by Russia? Yes, the bolshevic controlled russia, then know as the USSR. And that after those claims by the jews, and they did claim all the concentratiom camps had gas chambers, the allied controlled camps were searched and no gas chambers were found? Did you know that the allied inspectors were not allowed into the jewish controlled camps to look for gas chambers? Did you know that when the jews finally allowed inspection of those camps there were many alterations made, including building chimneys on the supposed gas chambers?

I bet you didn't know any of that.

I bet that the fact that there is so much you don't know doesn't even bother you. That's what is really sad. You will deny so hard that jewish brainwashing can be real but you are the living proof that it works.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I bet you didn't know any of that.

80% bullshit and 20% irrelevancies.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your entire comment is complete bullshit and you know it.Gas chambers were discovered by the allies.Examples of such camps would be Auschwitz-Birkenau (which was part-concentration, part-exterminaton camp), Treblinka, Belzec, Kulmhof, Sobibor (which were pure extermination camps). https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.html#sovietsandcamps As for your claim that them being jews=they lied(which is complete ignorance because by that logic since you support hitler and the nazis then you can't be trusted with your holocaust denial because its clear you want nazism to be revived.) It is proven by the cumulative evidence of a) the documents (mostly German wartime documents), b) testimonies by people belonging to numerous ethnic groups (incl. Germans, Poles, Ukrainians, Russians), who were perpetrators, bystanders, and victims; https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2015/10/contemporary-german-documents-on.html Also your last part is the pot calling the kettle black since you continue to believe this is somehow all lies.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There is no shortage of hard evidence

There is though. Evidence that should exist does not.

The problem is you are now throwing everything hitler ever did or said into a blender and mixing it up, then claiming evidence for one thing is evidence for everything.

Hitler killing the mentally retarded is not proof of the holocaust. Next you will claim you didn't say that, but you did. You put that up in a discussion about the exgermination of jews in camps as an argument that "so much hard evidence exists for it".

This argument is plainely illogical.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Also you say there's no evidence of bodies but where are the bodies of all those people that died in Russia?Where is the documented evidence of what the bolsheviks did?Eye witnesses?Documents?

There is evidence for what the bolshevics did, but this is not a discussion about that. Your claim that it does not exist is nothing more than a retarded attempt to dismiss the fact that there is no real evidence for the holocaust. We both know you did zero research on the bolshevics, didn't even know that they were a political party until I told you, and pulled out the claim that there is no evidence of thier crimes completely out of your ass.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Where's the evidence of the holodomor hoax?Since you think the same historians that believe the holocaust aren't lying about that are somehow in a conspiracy to lie about the holocaust, why should i trust that genocide over the other?I never said they weren't a political party.Where did you get that?I have done research and know why they rose to power.Tsar nicholas ii was an incompetent ruler that caused Increasing governmental corruption, and catastrophic Russian losses in World War I contributed to widespread dissatisfaction and economic hardship in Russia.Unlike you who believes"And one day, for no reason at all, the russian people wanted to get rid of tsar nicholas."

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There is a mountain of evidence that disproves that claim.

No there isn't.

This is typical "black is white, water is dry, fire is cold, Epstein killed himself, women can have dicks" insanity.

The Nazi Holocaust, despite the best efforts to destroy the evidence, is perhaps the best documented crime in history. There were trials, with thousands of documents, Nazi records, photos, eye-witnesses and confessions. Tens of thousands of bodies. Hundreds of acres of land filled with ash containing human bones, were it has permanently changed the soil structure. To this very day there are places where you can walk in a field and find fragments of charred human bones everywhere you look.

There is more evidence for the Holocaust than for the existence of Julius Caesar.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

sending russians into the battlefield without ammo or guns

Yes, I too have watched "Enemy At The Gate". A great movie, but not exactly historically accurate.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Lol, you think that came from a movie?! It is well documented that russians were sent out there with a clip of ammo and no gun and told to pick up a gun from a dead body.

It is well documented that anyone who refused to go was shot as a deserter.

They were feeding them into the german machine guns on purpose.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It is well documented that russians were sent out there with a clip of ammo and no gun

Yeah, well documented in fiction. Not in real life.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You're jewish, aren't you?

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"OMG! OMG! THE JOOS ARE A COMIN' FOR US!? 😲 RUN FER THE HILLS BOYS!!"

These JOOS you're so scared of, are they in the room with you now?

I'm less Jewish than der Führer.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The attempt to remove jews from power in germany

What Jews in power in Germany? I only know of two Jews in the Weimar government, and one of them was assassinated.

jews were the smallest casualty group

Not even close.

If we only include the deliberate extermination of people, whether by shooting or gassing, by working them to death, or merely malign neglect, disease and starvation (so excluding other war time deaths of civilians as just "collateral damage"), Jews make up the largest group: about six million. Plus another million Jews murdered by the Croatian and Romanian fascists, independently of the Nazis.

That's followed closely by about 5.7 or so million Soviet (mostly Russian) non-Jewish civilians, another 3 million Soviet POWs, then 2-3 million non-Jewish Poles, and then the numbers start to fall rapidly.

If you include all civilian deaths, its probably the Soviet Union that suffered the worst, with around 20 million civilian deaths.

Proportionally, it was probably the Roma and Sinti (Gypsies) who suffered the worst, but there weren't that many of them to begin with so in absolute numbers they are quite low down the list.

the Amarican concentration camps for the Japanese and the german concentration camps for everyone they thought would become "terrorists" during the war are the exact same thing

Jesus Christ.

I'm not going to defend the American internment camps, but calling them "the exact same thing" as the German concentration camps, let alone the extermination camps, is just obscene.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What Jews in power in Germany?

I'm not the expert on those specifics but as I understand it he made regular claims about jewish banks and influence in commerce being used to destroy germany. He blamed them for the hyperinflation and many other things. Interestingly there was the same kind of social degeneracy happening there with regards to transexuals and homosexuality as we see today in the US, except it was 100 years ago when the world was far more conservative and Germany was leading the "revolution". A lot of the book burnings were LGBT propaganda written by jewish authors.

While it is important to understand that these reasons existed, it is not important for the topic of holocaust denial whether or not they were valid. It is only important to understand that hitler, and many of his followers, believed they were valid and wanted to save germany from that evil.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Jews make up the largest group: about six million

A bullshit number. The world almanac tracks population sizes and disproves that claim. Jewish casualties were most likely around 300k according to studies done by "holocaust denying" academics.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

but calling them "the exact same thing" as the German concentration camps, let alone the extermination camps, is just obscene.

Only if you are fool enough to believe the narrative you have been brainwashed with.

If your emotional response is so great that you can't function there is really no hope in you ever seeing reality for what it is.

If there is still an ounce of independent thought left then start asking questions. Poke at the official narrative. Don't just do everything you can think of to disprove, dismiss, and ignore what you already believe to be wrong. You made this post so you can feel like you are more than a sheep, so be more than a sheep. Question the official narrative with the same passion you question the conspiracy theory.

Why would the germans build camps just to kill people?

Why did the russians modify the camps?

Why did the camps have pools?

Why did the germans allow children to be born in the camps?

Ask the real questions.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Why would the germans build camps just to kill people?

Because they wanted to kill people duh.

In western Europe, they still wanted plausible deniability and secrecy, and it wouldn't be very deniable or secret if they just went from house to house shooting people on the spot in front of witnesses.

They could get away with mobile killing squads in the Soviet Union, where they didn't care if people found out what was going on. But that was hard on the squads, most people are not psychologically able to murder dozens of unarmed women and children in cold blood day after day, week after week. Even the battle-hardened SS officers complained about having to kill women and children, and sometimes refused orders to do so. Himmler was very concerned about the psychological effect it was having on his men.

And it is very inefficient. The camps were far more efficient. The extermination camps were capable of killing thousands of people a day, as fast as they arrived, using only a relatively small number of guards, and disposing of the corpses. Mobile killing squads could not come even close to that efficiency.

Why did the russians modify the camps?

Which camps? Modify in what way?

Why did the camps have pools?

Do you think that perhaps the swimming pools were for the use of the guards and officers running the camps?

The Germans built literally thousands of concentration camps. At least one camp was a show camp, deliberately set up to fool the Red Cross and dispel rumours of ill-treatment. Some were detention camps for favoured prisoners and detainees who would be deported to countries Germany didn't want to offend, or swapped for Germany prisoners. Many were work camps, and some camp commanders decided on a "carrot and stick" approach to get more work from the prisoners before they died. Some were run by the Gestapo, for interrogating prisoners.

Camps in eastern Europe were generally harsher than those in western Europe and Germany. Camps with only Jews and Slavs were usually harsher than those with prisoners of mixed origin. Some camp commanders allowed their prisoners little luxuries to encourage them to comply with the rules.

Only a handful were outright extermination camps where majority of prisoners were killed immediately on arrival.

Which camps do you think had swimming pools? Can you name them?

Why did the germans allow children to be born in the camps?

The Nazis were in power for 12 years, from 1933 to 1945. In that time millions of women went through the camps. Especially early on, the Nazis were still aiming to deport Jews and they had no reason to prevent pregnant prisoners from giving birth. The last thing the Nazis wanted was the Red Cross reporting that they were not giving medical attention to pregnant women, or for deported Jews to report that the Nazis were allowing pregnant women and babies to die.

Things were very different in the extermination camps in the east, where such things could be hidden.

There are records of about 2000 births in the camps, that's fewer than 200 a year on average, a drop in the ocean.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

whomp whomp the extermination narrative continues to crumble...

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is it Opposite Tuesday already? Okay then.

You are Very Smart and You Have Convinced Me With Your Logic.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

So jews weren't as strong as they are now, but somehow they started and funded both world wars?Make up your mind.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This is not a contradiction. Starting a war between countries is a lot easier than the constant propaganda they wield today with their control of media and schools.

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

But then how did they convince the entire world to declare war on hitler?Why didn't any of the white european leaders reject the jews and sided with hitler?Let me guess?They were all secretly killed and the evidence was covered up?

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Why do you feel the need to create a strawman guess?

The entire world did not declare war on hitler.

The majority of axis powers were forced into the war by mutual defense pacts they made before the war. Other countires were directly invaded by germany.

And influence over governments is not in the same ballpark of power as brainwashing entire populations. This "but then how" of yours indicates you still don't get that.

[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The majority of axis powers were forced into the war by mutual defense pacts they made before the war.

Nonsense.

Aside from Germany, there were nine countries in the Axis. Most of them only signed into the Axis after the war started. Only three countries were aligned with Germany in 1939 before the invasion of Poland: Italy, Hungary and Spain, and Spain remained neutral all through the war.

The rest of the Axis countries, including Japan, only signed up after the war began.

Germany's agreement with Japan was only for defence in the event that they were attacked first, but since Japan attacked the USA, Germany had no obligation to assist. It was Hitler's choice to declare war on the USA, it wasn't required by the treaty.

[–]twolanterns 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

jews were just the start - the nazis planned to wipe out all the Slavs as well, 100+ million of them

[–]Mcheetah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You know, I honestly don't care about Jewish people, one way or the other, but the fact so many of them have been doing the "if you criticize me in any way, you're anti-Semitic and a Nazi, and I'm going to cancel you" shit for literally more than half a century now, really makes me not want to defend them or take their side. Ironically some of the ones who do this shit the most are "anti woke," like Ben Shapiro. "I hate wokeness and victimhood, but I'm going to point out I'm Jewish for victimhood status."

There was a dude I used to know on this old forum who admitted he never washed his hands after using the restroom, never wore a shirt outdoors in the Summer, and would always blast shitty rap music from his phone when on the subway and all. Nobody liked him, and when he started to notice this, his first assumption was that we're "all anti-Semitic and hate [him] cause he's Jewish" and not because he was a huge fucking douchebag who should've been punched in the face years ago. This was the internet; no one gave a fuck what ethnicity/religion he was. So many Jewish people, at least in America, have this complex.

They were the first SJW's. And the get so much Virtue Shielding from wanna-be White Knights who think they're "defending people from those mean nasty anti-Semites," despite Jews bring among the richest and most powerful demographic in America. The numbers of the deaths from the Holocaust are very likely exaggerated, and this helps their victim status to leverage into positions of power, and that's where the "Holocaust denial" comes from. Not that it never happened, but that so many of them play the victim for leverage.

So when 4chan and other sites do the whole "the Holocaust wasn't real" and "1488" and (((goblins))) stuff, I don't think it's because people actually hate Jews, or even the Israel state. I think it's because so many of them just act like assholes from positions of power or use the Holocaust as their Get Out of Jail Free card.

Jewish Americans are like the Hollywood celebrities of demographics and just like them, they whine more about "being oppressed" than anyone else "cause Holocaust," despite having near-universal protected status in the West and massive wealth in society. Every single thing is, "You can't criticize me or call out my bad behavior, cause Holocaust." That creates a lot of resentment. More people died under Chairman Mao than Hitler, yet those who died in the rice famine don't get as much ass-kissing as Jews far removed from the Holocaust do today. Even the fucking Native Americans don't do any of this shit and they arguably had it just as bad, if not worse. Nobody hates Native Americans; plenty of people hate Social Jewish Warriors. Look what they did to Kanye in the media and no one even takes Kanye seriously. "Learn who you're not allowed to criticize and you'll learn who controls you."

So yeah; TL;DR Version: People don't really hate Jews or deny the Holocaust; a lot of them are just fucking self-victimizing assholes you're supposedly not allowed to criticize, "cause Holocaust."

[–]KyleIsThisTall 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hate those nobel savage fantasy story tellers.

[–]jacques1102[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ah now were getting somewhere.So holocaust denial here isn't because of lack of evidence but because jews use it to be victims.Which tbf every race uses some tragedy to paint their group as victims.Just look at the people here bringing up"but the russian revolution!100 trillion white christians killed!"

[–]Mcheetah 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

every race uses some tragedy to paint their group as victims.

True to some extent, but undeniably, no other demographic has been more successful at it than Jewish Americans, who have leveraged it into positions of enormous power, or have used it to silence any criticism or bad behavior against them. As I said, I don't hate or care about Jews one way or the other, but damn are some of them fucking annoying with the victimhood shit, including Shapiro.

The shit ended 78 years ago. No one under the age of 85 is old enough to have lived through the Holocaust or remember it. Even the ones who did don't bitch about it like Jewish Millennials and Zoomers do today. You're right though, as some black Millennial and Zoomers still act like they personally lived through slavery and shit, or that being gay will get you lynched in the streets in 2023 America or something.

[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You know, I honestly don't care about Jewish people, one way or the other, but the fact so many of them have been doing the "if you criticize me in any way, you're anti-Semitic and a Nazi, and I'm going to cancel you" shit for literally more than half a century now, really makes me not want to defend them or take their side.

The state of Israel, especially the Israeli right-wing, has absolutely weaponized the Holocaust to defend themselves from criticism.

It is, maybe, possible that the actions of the Zionists and (later) Israelis in the later 1940s, 50s and even into the 60s might have been justified by "Never Again". But Israel now is secure, no longer surrounded by enemies except for those of its own making and using the Holocaust to excuse their own slow-motion genocide of the Palestinians is just obscene.