Any masculine women feel a loss when tomboys come out as transgender/nonbinary

submitted by inneedofspace from self.GenderCritical

I don't even really know why it bothers me so much I'm not much of a tomboy anymore not in looks anyway mostly personality but you know you spend your whole life avoiding being called a man or a "lesbian" because of the way you dress, you find tomboys to follow only for them to come out as transgender, I really didn't realize how much pressure there is for us to transition. Does anyone think women who don't identify with femininity are going to be forceably removed from the woman category altogether in the future and placed on the nobinary scale because gender is a state of mind and not a sex? I've actually had issues in the past wanting to id as agender because there were so many people claiming that women like this that and the other to the point where I finally gave in and decided maybe they're right and maybe the reason I can't identify with so many women is I just not a woman at heart. I really do wish we'd just leave it at sex dysphoria and stop putting thoughts like this in young women's minds.

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[–]moody_ape 38 insightful - 2 fun38 insightful - 1 fun39 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

i'm not a masculine woman, but i do feel a loss when tomboys come out as trans/nb. it takes out the little hope i have. masculine women are allowed to exist, they are still women, they have always been female. i saw a live by GNC Centric where she and her guests talked about how butch lesbians are disappearing due to the pressure to transition. it is really concerning.

[–]inneedofspace[S] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can see this having an affect on all women.

[–]worried19 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Some interesting videos on butch erasure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrnJOSk-3kA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTQngMEDocw

[–]moody_ape 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh! I'v been a subscriber to Leoaica for a while now, I loooove her videos! The second video was new to me. The part where someone says 'If you're butch people say you're trying to be a man" - this makes me so angry! They are simply not performing femininity, that's all. It just shows that society thinks male is the standard. ARGH!

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the "those lesbians" things makes me upset. lesbians get a lot of flack, even from the community. i knew i was lesbian when i was like 9.

[–]Greykittymomma 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Proud former tomboy here. Yes, waiting for that word to be banned by the language police. I guess you can't be yourself without being thrown in a box.

Very sad because I loved being a girl but I wanted to do things they told me were "unlady like".

Maybe being bi made it all more confusing. Pretending to be a boy would have been the easy thing to do. I'm glad I stayed true to myself and didn't mutilate my body.

I have so much pain directly related to my female organs but if I didn't have them I wouldn't have my daughter. She is perfect and I want a world that allows her to be whoever she wants. I would still support and love my child if she really wanted to be trans but I would never let her medically transition until she left my home. I would not circumcise a son so I definitely won't allow my daughter to sterilize herself before she comes of age.

[–]Comatoast 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's like a push to keep forcing women to keep picking themselves apart. It's working to a degree, but I'm hopeful that this is just some sort of societal phase that passes soon.

Listen, sometimes we just have to look harder to find our groups and you're not less of a woman for not necessarily identifying with most of the ones you've been around. It's a tough crowd out there.

[–]worried19 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm extremely GNC, and it feels like masculine women are being completely erased. I'm hesitant to even try to find other women like me or look for masculine role models because I'm worried they'll jump ship.

Does anyone think women who don't identify with femininity are going to be forceably removed from the woman category altogether in the future and placed on the nobinary scale because gender is a state of mind and not a sex?

It's getting to that point. GNC women are "theyed" constantly and asked for pronouns when feminine women never are. We've always been othered, but now we're not automatically seen as women at all. I had someone on Reddit tell me that she, as a teacher, pulled a GNC 14 year old girl aside and privately asked her for her pronouns. And this woman, as a teacher and authority figure, could not see any problem with what she had done. This is what the younger generation is up against. No wonder they're abandoning womanhood in droves.

[–]thrownawaycan 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"You're not feminine enough to be a woman," was the line I heard frequently as a teen and young adult. Back then, they were considered assholes to say such a thing, but now they are progressive and caring. Same shit, different day. I've had people ~reach out~ to me about it, about how my frustrations with womanhood might be a sign I'm just not a woman. As if suddenly saying I'm an enby would fucking fix a goddamn thing.

[–]blahblahgcer 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. A year ago my childhood best friend and I both identified as nonbinary. I desisted, she did not. A few months after I started reading gc and desisted, I got a fb friend request from a male name I didn't recognize (she changed her last name too I guess) and it was her. I just felt so bad and sad and idk. And every time she posts stuff about trans stuff or about her "bitch egg self" I just feel worse.

Honestly at this point so many of my friends have become trans that it's starting to feel like it's a new friend every month and I don't know how much more I can take. I'm trying to get away from trans things because I now see how harmful it is and it brings back bad memories of why I thought I was trans in the first place and that pain. But I can never get away from it now unless I want to lose everyone. So I have to pretend.

[–]Fraeulein 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was a big tomboy growing up. If TRAs were as rampant then as they are now, I know for a fact I would have thought I was trans or nonbinary, especially since internalized misogyny and sexual trauma contributed a lot to avoidance of stereotypical feminine things. I cannot express how grateful I am that wasn't something so prominent back then and that I never had to go through permanently wrecking my body as a kid, because now that I'm older, I realize just how much I love being a woman. It really makes me sad that tomboys aren't allowed to be just tomboys anymore. Impressionable young girls now are having it drilled into their heads that if they don't adhere to each and every gender based stereotype expected of them, then they can't possibly be a girl.

[–]sisterinsomnia 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, of course. The only real way to greater equality between men and women is to minimize stereotypical views about femininity and masculinity and rigid and unfair gender roles, and I have always felt that encouraging gender nonconformity is an excellent way to move in that direction.

Not sure when progress reversed in that field, but it is almost certainly caused by trans activism. Transgender people need retrogressive gender rules about behavior and dress because it makes passing as the opposite sex so much easier. But this development is terrible news for the roughly fifty percent of people who are female. Ironically, it also places trans activists on the far left really close to the anti-feminists on the far right! Neither group believes that boys can play with dolls or girls football without requiring gender re-education.

[–]peakitypeaked 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am attracted to masculine women BUT the moment she identifies as "genderqueer" or "non binary" I am turned off. Such a shame too because there were those with whom I got along quite well and was interested in until they started ID-ing as nb. There used to be someone famous on Instagram (jessesulli) whom I thought was somewhat attractive (although I am not a fan of her rhetoric), but once she started transitioning I lost all interest.

[–]Literallyawoman 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My boyfriend and I joke a lot about being “gender nonconforming”. I’m bi, he’s straight, when we order out I usually get a beer and him a cocktail so the servers usually place them in front of the wrong person, I’m big spoon and put my arm around him a lot, and he is pretty metrosexual, whereas I’m feminine but my fashion isn’t. Anyway, couples like us, normal couples that regularly defy “convention” EXIST, everywhere, and I hate that women are continuously putting themselves into boxes based on outdated gender stereotypes. My boyfriend loves clear nail polish manicures, he has a well kept beard, his fashion gets him hit on a lot by gay men, but he’s straight as an arrow. I particularly hate that men who have good hygiene and dress well can be considered less “manly”-especially because it’s a western concept, many eastern culture men are much more in touch with hygiene and present metrosexual to the us. It isn’t feminine it’s just how he, a male, is, and I love him!

[–]msteacherlady 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. At the ripe age of six I went on diatribe on how pink and purple were weak colors and I took offense that they were ubiquitous in girls clothing and toys. Classmates got mad at me, ha ha. My mother, though having many feminist views, loved all of that girly garbage, so I wasn't getting it from her. (Mind you, she was delighted to let me be me, thanks Mom!)

I so would have been pressured to be trans, and it makes me mad.

[–]Sebell 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I absolutely think that yes - part of the madness is to claim that transwomen are "real women" and adult human females are "nonbinary" and therefore not women, when it comes to legal matters.

I will say - only on the part of a few extremists activists, and not on the mainstream feel-good-woke-tag-alongs.

It's like the difference between a Vegan who feels everyone should be forced to be Vegan, and one who is Vegan but doesn't expect anyone else to be Vegan.

[–]Jalaces 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I dont understand the difference between agender, gender neutral, and genderfree? Ive seen gender critical women identify as genderfree so it confuses me. Maybe it's because English isn't my first language?

[–]Anna_Nym 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know the intended difference either. But I do know why genderfree is now associated with gender critical women. A gender critical woman came out on Twitter as "genderfree" some time ago based on her workplace's provided LGBT+ identity definitions. This made her eligible for an LGBT+ award (which I believe she won, but I don't remember her name so can't fact check. Also, this was on Twitter so it's always possible she made everything up. I don't think she did.)

Because she was previously known as a TERF, trans activists were convinced she was trolling and appropriating the "genderfree" identity. They were almost certainly correct in the sense that I, too, am positive she continues to identify as a woman. But they were wrong in the sense that she was absolutely not appropriating the genderfree identity. She 100% fit the provided definition. By their own rules, it was her identity to claim and use. Other gender critical women adopted genderfree as a similar troll/not troll.