How much do we owe to strangers?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (135 children)

Im saying that most people may be fine with bathrooms because they don’t realize the further implications.

How do you know people don’t realize the further implications? How do you know people don’t do their research? Is it because they hold opinions you don't agree with?

But as I said, your link actually indicates thst the amount of people who think trans people should use the spaces that corelate to the reality of their sex is what is actually increasing.

I dont think actual trans people are brainwashed- I think they’re severely mentally ill. I think their simps, including you, are brainwashed. Why else would you believe so fervently in something so easily disproved?

Cool. You think people who hold different opinions then you are brainwashed simps. But that argument does not prove your point. In fact, it makes your argument weaker.

It’s gender critical views that are banned from many major websites, including Reddit, YouTube, Twitter, etc. Ovarit even has an entire circle of people who are "cancelled" for gender critical views. Have you heard of TRAs being cancelled?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (79 children)

I know because I pay attention and listen to other people. Everything doesn’t have to be studies and statistics- even on Reddit when trans people come up (not on trans related subs), most people confirm what I’m saying. They don’t hold opinions i disagree with- check comments on YouTube, Facebook (though they delete comments a lot there), or people out side of your gender bubble, they agree with GC, withouy even knowing what gc is. So I’m saying they DGAF about trans people either way, they just accept the lie of “just wanting to pee" because they are under-informed and want the well being of others. But when other issues come up, they clearly lean gender critical when they are confronted with the subject.

I don’t think any and all people who hold different opinions than I do are simps. There are thousands of various opinions and beliefs I respect even if I don’t agree, but in this specific subject, absolutely if you’ve allowed a group of obviously extremely mentally ill and that D word I can’t use people convince you that what they are claiming makes even a little bit of sense- brainwashed, or simp.

Gender critical views are all over all of the sites you listed lmao. Yes select people get “canceled”, but the views of the majority are allover. I juuuuust got through watching a gender critical channel on YouTube and this very site links several Twitter threads of people acknowledging how insane tras are. There are even low key subs on Reddit where the comments are full of people laughing at how ridiculous tras sound.

So while yes, the concept of TERFS/radfems/gc are vilified (because we are women…), by and large, the opinions of the general populace who don’t call themselves radfems/gc are allover the interwebs, babes. And they don’t agree with tras. At all.

Interesting how you have so much to say in response to my comment but won’t address that you misinterpreted your own link. The very link that would tell you what I’m typing now.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

Further- People like Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Blaire White who is trans himself, all have thriving social media pages on various platforms and huge followings. Further proof that the issue is not what gc says- it’s that the people associated with gender critical are WOMEN. when it comes from a man’s mouth, widespread agreement, and tras in a corner of the internet crying violence and spouting false statistics and half truths. (Yes I’m aware that those are all conservative men- but even people who aren’t conservatives are in agreement when it comes to trans issues, that’s my point. Even when they disagree with other stuff, they agree here. The fact that non conservatives are even willing to admit they agree with conservatives on anything is just how clear it is that most of the 99% are not here for tra bs)

Even the Wii spa lady was supported, despite the seething rage from tras.

Dave chapelle- not canceled

Queen J K Rowling herself- not canceled. Even amongst tras they’re so desperate to cling to her works that they try to act as if she’s no longer associated with Harry Potter.

Even Maya forestsarter got to come back from her "cancellation"

I think you’re so ensconced in your gender uwu circle jerk bubble that you just don’t see what is actually going on outside of it.

[–]beris😎 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

I mean, can we at least agree that people with more wealth and media/internet presence than small countries cannot be 'canceled'? Implying that jk rowling or dave chapelle could be in literally any social or financial danger is worse than a bad joke.

Edit

Sounded more hostile than I meant, sorry, just mean to say that implying tras ever had a chance of cancelling them was, well... Silly? Sorry.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

I mean, Being fired and being canceled are two different things. You can’t really cancel someone most people don’t know. I already acknowledged that people who refer to themselves as gc/radfem are vilified, threatened, etc and why. So the only one implying what you’re saying I implied is you.

You can literally go on any social media and read any relevant comment section and see thousands of people call out tra bullshit. Most of them don’t lose their jobs or even get their accounts suspended. I know this because I can still see their comments and their account. Yes it does happen sometimes, and it shouldn’t. But my point is still that there are just as many “bigots” online expressing themselves as there are “people just trying to live their truth”.

My whole point was that most people think and say the same shit that the people who do get canceled or fired say- they just don’t call themselves gc/radfems or they aren’t women. And again, even when they do, they don’t generally face repercussions other than tras ganging up on them online while likeminded individuals gang up on the tras.

The point wasn’t even about social or financial danger- it’s about the signs that the general public agrees with gc points more than qt points, regardless of what happens to the person making the points. The point is that when it comes down to it, most people see where Gc is coming from when they have to think deeper on the subject than they normally would.

And some tras literally posted jk Rowling’s personal address online encouraging people to harass her. so she actually could have been in danger. And she got the same death and rape threats most gc women get, probably a thousand times over.

And Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, and Blaire White are all people who could easily be canceled. And they certainly do not have more wealth than small countries. Idk Shapiro’s net worth but for sure the other two.

They attempted to cancel Rowling and punish Chappelle- the general public laughed at them and rolled their eyes for it. THAT’S my point.

[–]beris😎 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

Alright

1) I'm not talking about non public-figure individuals. Non public figures can and have been "cancelled", as was the case with Maya and others. They're the vulnerable ones.

2)Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh and blaire white CAN be cancelled, but they won't be cancelled for having views that made them famous in the first place. Alt-right figureheads are literally completely unaffected by the whims of leftists on Twitter. Milo yia-i think young gay guys getting molested by older men is a good thing-nopolis was cancelled because he went against core alt right beliefs, not because he was racist and sexist and just generally a bad person.

3) my main point is that "attempting to cancel rowling and punish chappelle" is the same as attempting to drink the entire ocean by yourself. As in impossible in every way, shape, and form. So as a whole we should really stop centering conversations about actually real life lives being ruined around literal multi-millionaires and billionaires who don't give two shits about the things they say because they're doing it for profit anyways. While the general public are laughing and rolling their eyes about billionaires being unaffected by social duress they're immune to in the first place, people are having their lives ruined every day.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (23 children)

Okay then you’re not really even talking about what we were talking about so…

  1. Maya was fired. That’s not canceled. And I’m saying that this doesn’t happen to 99% of people who go online and say that sex is real. It shouldn’t have happened to maya. But unless you can show that every person or even most people who say something true on Twitter get fired for it, Im not sure why you are acting like every woman who makes a post on Twitter that tras don’t like loses their job? Also, maya wa supported both verbally and financially by people who thought her being fired was wrong- that’s not being canceled.

-2. The fact that there are enough people out there who agree with Shapiro, Walsh, and White that they could build their platform and not be canceled IS LITERALLY MY POINT. Again, GB and I were talking about the percentage of people who are being “held hostage” to trans demands. I used social media as an indication of how people really feel. I still don’t see why you are trying to say that what I’m saying is wrong and none of your responses are making it clear to me.

-3. And I’m saying, once again, that not only were they not canceled, they were supported and tras were told to calm down and that chappelle and Rowling said nothing wrong/transphobic. That’s what the general public said. To tras. So, yet again- given the context of why this was even brought up by me in the first place- you aren’t proving me wrong. At all. You’re saying what I’m saying but acting like it goes against what I said. They weren’t canceled because nobody really GAF about how upset tras were.

Are there people who get screwed over for their honesty? Absolutely, is it true that most people who are publicly honest about their views on tras/trans people are losing their jobs? No. It’s not. Or we’d see more stories of it. Some people have to put up with pronouns and bathroom shit at school and work, yes it’s bad. But, for hopefully the final time, I was talking about people expressing opinions that differ from the tra party line, on social media. We can all still do that. A lot of people are doing this. And getting more upvotes and support and than the tras arguing with them. I was asked how I know that most people agree with gc. I said the comments people choose to make and the statuses they post allover sm is how. So I’m still not sure what you’re trying to do here with your comments. And I’m tired of repeating myself so have a good one

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (22 children)

I could list a hundred famous people who were canceled for racism or even homophobia. I cannot name a single one who was truly canceled for TraNsPhoBia. Because as much as there’s virtue signaling and faux support, as much as gc gets vilified, when it comes down to it, most people just don’t gaf about trans people complaining. Most people are sick of the complaining.

[–]beris😎 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Uhhh. Maya Forstater? But you're right, time wasting. It got way off track and I didn't explain myself well enough since I was posting in between work. Maybe someday I'll explain better. Have a fun Friday.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

Omg maya forstater wasn’t famous before she got fired. She is known for being fired. I’m talking about Issaih Washington getting fired from grey’s and not really working again for homophobic remarks. I’m talking about Roseanne and Paula Dean and the dude from Seinfeld and Mel Gibson. Name an actual famous celebrity who has been canceled for transphobia? Also, can you link proof that everyone/most people who speaks out about trans issues gets fired?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (50 children)

I know because I pay attention and listen to other people. Everything doesn’t have to be studies and statistics- even on Reddit when trans people come up (not on trans related subs), most people confirm what I’m saying. They don’t hold opinions i disagree with- check comments on YouTube, Facebook (though they delete comments a lot there), or people out side of your gender bubble, they agree with GC, withouy even knowing what gc is.

Reddit is not a representative of the entire population. For the most accurate results it's best to survey a large number of random people.

I'm not saying there aren't any gender critical views expressed on reddit. There certainly is, especially on r/OffMyChest and r/AskGayBros. But the biggest GC subs got banned including r/GenderCritical, r/GenderCriticalGuys, r/LGBdroptheT, r/ThisNeverHappens and r/Cancelled. YouTube channels also get banned that GCs have to upload their videos to Odysee. https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/62147/gc-youtubers-moving-to-odysee

I don't think any and all people who hold different opinions than I do are simps. There are thousands of various opinions and beliefs I respect even if I don’t agree, but in this specific subject, absolutely if you’ve allowed a group of obviously extremely mentally ill and that D word I can’t use people convince you that what they are claiming makes even a little bit of sense- brainwashed, or simp.

I know GCs think of trans people as the D word, the word for the cluster B personality disorder, fetishists, AGPs and fujoshis.

So while yes, the concept of TERFS/radfems/gc are vilified (because we are women…), by and large, the opinions of the general populace who don’t call themselves radfems/gc are allover the interwebs, babes. And they don’t agree with tras. At all.

You get vilified because of your anti-trans views, not because you're women. GC subs even those that were male dominated like r/GenderCriticalGuys and r/LGBdroptheT were banned. I've sent an email to reddit admins to make the mod of r/AskGayBros clean up the anti-trans comments or clean it up themselves and perhaps to add a gay trans man to moderate the sub, and I've even corrected my own dad when he purposefully misgendered trans celebrities. My dad is a cis man. It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. If you hold anti-trans views, I will treat you the same.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (49 children)

Im very well aware that Reddit is not a representative of the whole population lmao

Im saying you can see for yourself, even in data, like the data you linked that proves my point, whatever you want to use, be they comments or polls, most people are gc when it comes down to it.

There are plenty of gender critical style videos on YouTube. They just don’t use the phrase gender critical because they know not to or they don’t even know the term. To act as if you can’t find any gc views on YouTube is ridiculous.

We get vilified because trans people know they can attack and vilify women. Plenty of men are outright disgusted my trans people or make fun of them or just don’t agree and they aren’t getting death and rape threats. The only difference is that they are men. They are saying the same shit as radfems. It’s absurd to pretend this isn’t true when it’s out there to hear, read and see. The fact that you have to ask a sub to clean up because the men there say things you don’t like is not proving you’re right- it’s proving you’re wrong.

Nobody, generally speaking, gives a fuck about you trying to be a dictator lol. You think it means anything to the general public that some rando is preaching to them? Tras bitch and moan all day every day and will continue to do so because it’s not working. The rest of us don’t care, it’s just that some of us will be polite and pretend it’s not ridiculous to call a man she/her or a woman he/him.

You just said Reddit doesn’t represent the population so idk why you think it matters that it’s run by tras and they banned some subs. They banned those subs because they were offended by what people who aren’t tras think.

Once again- you just prove my point for me. It’s like we’re a team.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (48 children)

Im very well aware that Reddit is not a representative of the whole population lmao

What I meant is the best way to find out what the general population thinks about something is to survey a large number of random people. You said "Everything doesn’t have to be studies and statistics" even though studies and statistics are the most accurate.

Im saying you can see for yourself, even in data, like the data you linked that proves my point, whatever you want to use, be they comments or polls, most people are gc when it comes down to it.

I know the link I posted says support for trans rights slightly decreased in 2 years. However you said what I want is what an "incredibly small portion of the population wants" do directly quote you. I posted the link to prove that’s not the case. 54.5% is not an "incredibly small portion of the population." Also, every poll poll I found has one thing in common. Women are more likely to be supportive of trans rights than men.

There are plenty of gender critical style videos on YouTube. They just don’t use the phrase gender critical because they know not to or they don’t even know the term. To act as if you can’t find any gc views on YouTube is ridiculous.

I know there are GC videos on YouTube. However, many major sites banned GC views.

We get vilified because trans people know they can attack and vilify women. Plenty of men are outright disgusted my trans people or make fun of them or just don’t agree and they aren’t getting death and rape threats.

Men who are anti-trans aren't popular either. Ben Shapiro is not popular among Americans including Jews like me. Men on r/AskGayBros have been called TERFs when they said something transphobic. When I use the term TERF, I include men.

Tras bitch and moan all day every day and will continue to do so because it’s not working.

Then why have most major websites banned GC views, including GC men?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (47 children)

The surveys say the same thing the comments say. I’ve already addressed this. Your own link shows this.

It keeps getting lower because more people are informing themselves and/or likely getting tired of tras. We’ve covered this. Several times, on several posts.

Major sites may ban gc views (which sites, btw? I see them everywhere all the time), but they have to close comment sections or delete many comments to avoid people viewing their sites from sharing gc views.

Ben Shapiro’s popularity depends on who you ask. And Reddit is run by tras and transmen constantly harass the men on AGB so of course the men there being honest get called transphobic/TERFS, it’s Reddit, It’s like the trans hub of the internet lol. The actual men on AGB aren’t calling each other transphobes, transmen who are salty that actual gay men don’t want them are.

The sites are banned to coddle your trans buddies. As I’ve said, the opinions of the rest of the world are there to see despite the banning. The fact that people still find ways to make their comments and express their opposition when your masters try so hard to silence any dissent is telling. You can go on and on about how a community that mostly clings to online forums because the world doesn’t accept them controls a lot of online forums… who cares? Irl, nobody gaf about what tras are bitching about and we have lives outside of the internet so it’s not as big of a deal to not be able to speak freely everywhere online, we speak freely amongst ourselves (and still find ways to do it online- you keep ignoring the point about there being content and comments all over that lean gc, despite your points)

Why even bother banning sites and trying to control narratives (like how tras told us all not to read jkr’s letter or watch Chappelle’s specials- they told us to just listen to their opinions on both of these)? If you have to go to such lengths to silence others, it comes across as if you are afraid of what’s being said/you think it’s harmful. It can only be harmful if many others agree with it.

The banning and silencing proves nothing but that tras know they are full of shit and narcissism and don’t want others to be able to point it out.

And yet, despite your points that you think prove something meaningful- approval rates for the trans community continues to drop. Support in general for trans people continues to drop, even if slowly. I’m not sure how you think that means people are on your side.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (46 children)

Major sites may ban gc views (which sites, btw? I see them everywhere all the time), but they have to close comment sections or delete many comments to avoid people viewing their sites from sharing gc views.

Reddit banned all the gender critical subs in 2020. Ovarit has a circle called o/Cancelled where they talk about people being banned from sites for expressing GC views. Just today on the circle you will find posts about Exulansics YouTube and Twitter account terminated and Tumblr blocking content with tags including "radfem", "misogyny", "sexism", "gender critical" and "girl" on iOS.

And Reddit is run by tras and transmen constantly harass the men on AGB so of course the men there being honest get called transphobic/TERFS, it’s Reddit, It’s like the trans hub of the internet lol. The actual men on AGB aren’t calling each other transphobes, transmen who are salty that actual gay men don’t want them are.

Trans men are not harassing cis men on r/AskGayBros. The problem is when trans men post or when there is any discussion about trans men, the cis men on the sub (not all though) claim that trans men aren't men, that they are women, that cis men who are attracted to trans men have to be bisexual and not monosexual gay men. Some users say they and other cis gay men aren't attracted to trans men because they are homosexual, even though being attracted to trans men doesn't make you less gay. It's totally fine not to be attracted to trans people personally. Trans men are "actual men" and men who are attracted to other men have the right to be in gay spaces like r/AskGayBros. For the most part part I haven't seen trans men harass anyone on the sub.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (44 children)

Reddit banned gc subs… yet gc leaning comments are allover Reddit. That’s kinda my whole point… you constantly repeating that a forum run by tras banned gc subs isn’t really a point. We all know, that’s literally why we are here- yet comments tras dislike are still allover reddit despite the bans. I honestly don’t know how else to explain this? What are you not understanding?

Sure, you can point out specific bans, but what about the actual comments from thousands of users on all of these forums? Why are you ignoring this?

The gay men on AGB are pretty clear about hating the posts from transmen ans are clear on how they feel about transmen in general. I don’t think it’s your place to say they aren’t being harassed if that’s the sentiment they’ve expressed. They don’t always use the word harass, but it’s clear they hate when transmen make their desperate posts.

If that’s “the problem”, you have yet again proven my point for me. Despite the bans and restrictions and constant bitching, gay men are still saying the same shit.

And again, for what must be the hundredth time: can you site proof that transmen are men? If not, it’s pretty reckless and disingenuous to claim that they are. It’s pretty clear that the men on AGB don’t see them as such… which… has been my point this whole time lmao

Eta: “would you date me?” “Why won’t you date me?” “You’re awful if you don’t date me!” “Here’s why you should consider dating me” Over and over and over again despite them making it clear that they hate those posts (and making the answer pretty fucking clear several times) is kind of harassment. If a man did that to a woman you’d know it was harassment, odd that you don’t see it because the harassers are trans

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (43 children)

I haven't seen much harassment on that sub. There are sometimes posts about trans men. There was a post asking users if they would date an AFAB enby who was male presenting. I see nothing wrong with that post. There are also posts once in a while that gay men should date X group or they are awful, etc. Those are not OK either. Unfortinately the mod is extremely lenient and doesn't remove those kind of posts.

However frequently on that sub gay cis men are telling gay trans men they are female even though they aren't or saying men do not have vaginas. Most men don't have vaginas but some do. r/ActualLesbians doesn't tolerate this kind of transphobia, why should AGB? If I were a mod there, I would ban any post that would be more appropriate for gender critical or LGBdroptheT. I asked the Reddit admins to add a trans man as a mod.

[–]Juniperius 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (39 children)

Who the heck are you to tell r/AskGayBros how they should be modding their sub?!? You are not gay, nor a man, not by the real definitions and not by the TRA definitions. You think you have the right to invade the space of a marginalized community and insist that they should only be gay the way you, a heterosexual, think is an appropriate way to be gay? WTF is wrong with you?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Again- it’s not your place to say that it’s nothing harassment if the men on that sub feel harassed.

And idk how old you are but you need to grow out of thinking that what you personally think is always accurate and right instead of simply being what you personally think.

It is not at all a fact that a transman is not a female. Until you can provide proof of that statement, you saying it means nothing. If transmen weren’t female, they’d not be transmen. No man has a vagina. Transmen do. They are two very different things. And like I said, the onus is on the people claiming that TMAM to prove it. No one has EVER successfully done that.

And actuallesbians doesn’t have any actual lesbians, just a bunch of men with mental issues and some bisexual women or even straight women virtue signaling.

Having a transman ruin the AGB sub by being a mod wouldn’t change the opinions rampant there (and amongst gay men in general), all that would accomplish is gay men finding another outlet and their comments being deleted.

You can censor the rest of us- you clearly can’t brainwash all of us. That’s what you don’t seem to get. It doesn’t matter how effective tras are at silencing reality online, reality still exists and is acknowledged irl. That has been a huge part of the point I’ve been making.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know what you want to prove with this talk about cancelling. Big Tech (and MSM, too) making their best efforts trying to ban any trans critical content doesn't prove most people think TWAW and TMAM. It proves that transactivists are quite powerfull and influential, which is why they have managed to push their policies across several countries behind everyone's back.

So, are you or any other QT user explain to me how trans identified people be so marginalized if they have the support from big companies, the media and several goverments? Which is the truth, GB? Do most people accept "trans identities" or there is so much transphobia in the world that there is an epidemic of trans murders and suicides?

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s gender critical views that are banned from many major websites, including Reddit, YouTube, Twitter, etc. Ovarit even has an entire circle of people who are "cancelled" for gender critical views. Have you heard of TRAs being cancelled?

Shouldn't this be proof that the average person is only hearing one side, i.e. the transactivist's side? What have you to say about my question over transactivist's secretism? Why the ACLU and lawmakers don't want American citizens learn how many "TW" are being housed in women's prisons in Washington? They mention privacy concerns, but the numbers can be given without being tied to the indivuduals. So, what is there to hide?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (53 children)

No I haven’t heard of tra being cancelled despite alok venon saying little girls are kinky and like sex, despite thousands of tweets about raping, maiming, murdering, and enslaving women and girls, despite knowing about pedophiles in their ranks, despite trying to destroy women-run businesses, despite having crisis shelters for women closed down, despite public discussions about helping little girls insert tampons, despite the protection of dangerous individuals like amy challenor moderating subreddits for children, despite admittances of violence, hatred, homicidal ideation, sexual objectification, and desire to harm women.

Are these actions morally acceptable to you because the men who did them weren’t cancelled?

Do you truly want to say that a woman saying “woman is adult human female” is the worst act listed here?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (52 children)

No I haven’t heard of tra being cancelled despite alok venon saying little girls are kinky and like sex, despite thousands of tweets about raping, maiming, murdering, and enslaving women and girls, despite knowing about pedophiles in their ranks, despite trying to destroy women-run businesses, despite having crisis shelters for women closed down, despite public discussions about helping little girls insert tampons, despite the protection of dangerous individuals like amy challenor moderating subreddits for children, despite admittances of violence, hatred, homicidal ideation, sexual objectification, and desire to harm women.

Are these actions morally acceptable to you because the men who did them weren’t cancelled?

Not everyone who does this is a man.

Do you truly want to say that a woman saying “woman is adult human female” is the worst act listed here?

GCs have done worse than that. Here are examples:

  1. GCs have harassed a trans woman on a sewing sub. There is a thread on Ovarit titled Just got permanently banned from r/sewing. Apparently a trans woman posted an outfit on r/sewing and according to OP she admitted that she didn’t sew it and didn’t know how to sew. So I searched for the reddit thread on https://camas.github.io/reddit-search/ and found the thread which was deleted. You can view the deleted comments here. https://www.reveddit.com/v/sewing/comments/q47mqk/deleted_by_user/

I will even share part of the comment chain.

termagant_

Badly executed and bad concept.

Terrible-Ad6206

Yikes! You didn’t need to comment! Go be a jerk somewhere else.

termagant_

Hey don’t post crap.

Terrible-Ad6206

This is the sewing subreddit. Why come in so hostile? Go away troll.

Marty-8

Why post on a sewing sub when you obviously don’t sew? You’re just a male colonialist on a women’s sub. It must make you euphoric.

Terrible-Ad6206

I’m a woman. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. All because I haven’t posted doesn’t mean I don’t sew? Why all this hostility? Is this what r/sewing is like? Maybe I don’t want to be here…

I didn't know r/sewing is a women's sub now. Anyway, the OP never said she didn't sue that corset. And why did they have to bring up her gender? Would they bring up race if she was black?

  1. There was a thread on the old GC sub criticizing J. Lo for doing a strip tease at the super bowl.

Unlike the vast majority of women who are paid to be objectified, these two women are not poor victims in any sense. They are victimizers. These women are idolized by millions, yet choose to use their platforms to teach young girls that it's cool to be objectified by men.

OK, if you find doing a strip tease objectifying than don't do it. That doesn't make J. Lo a victimizer in any sense.

  1. When Elliot Page came out, Ovarit had an entire thread calling him slurs. One comment said "shattered by her deeply misogynistic and lesbophobic move" even though I can't recall Page saying anything misogynistic and lesbophobic, and he was once a lesbian himself. Another comment said "This is literal conversion therapy." Which IMO is insulting to actual victims of conversion therapy.

  2. They dislike Buck Angel has a career in porn. Buck is against medically transitioning minors, and even in a tweet said he doesn't like the term "cis". Despite this, Ovarit continues to refer to Buck as "she". "You're so right that her "dysphoria" makes no sense. It's insane that Buck is cool with being sexually degraded just like any other woman in porn." https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/59881/buck-angel-is-a-joke

  3. Cis men do porn. 2. If Buck personally doesn't find doing porn degrading, then it's not degrading. How can you feel degraded for someone else?

  4. GCs harass a trans woman in the bathroom. Here is a thread from the old GC sub. https://archive.ph/IPJI4#selection-2051.0-2058.0

Was shamed last night for asking why there was a man in the women’s restroom.

I heard the voice of a man through the stall door at a bar last night and was taken aback. Why was there a man in the women’s restroom??? I asked why he was in there and was yelled at by him and his friend for misgendering him. We’re being shamed in our own restrooms now for legitimate questions of why a male voice would be heard in the women’s restroom. I’m so angry.

This person wasn't bothering OP, yet OP had to harass her.

  1. I've seen comments on Ovarit about how every trans woman is a fetishist or AGP.

  2. Ovarit believes plastic surgery should be illegal. https://ovarit.com/o/WomensLiberation/28559/cosmetic-plastic-surgery-should-be-illegal

  3. Just today there was a thread titled If Laverne Cox is an inspiring black woman then so is Rachel Dolezal. Like how? Laverne Cox is a black woman. Rachel Dolezal is woman but she isn't black.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You once again gave no answer and instead made a giant whataboutism and reverted back to chanting TWAW.

Are you able to actually debate with intellectual honesty gb? What is preventing you from giving yes or no answers? What is compelling you to bring out repeated copy+paste points like the j-Lo one, when I and other users have already broken down why they are not refutations of the arguments you use them to respond to.

I can’t tell if it’s unwillingness or inability to follow what’s being said but I just can’t with you gb. It’s like you are always responding to someone or something else, never the point at hand and never real answer.

Yes or no gb, is it morally acceptable for adult human males to say that little girls are kinky and don’t need protection from sexually interested adults because the statement did not get the speaker cancelled on Twitter. It’s got nothing to do with jlo or Elliot page or the laws in your state or the slogans you think need repeating. Yes or no.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Yes or no gb, is it morally acceptable for adult human males to say that little girls are kinky and don’t need protection from sexually interested adults because the statement did not get the speaker cancelled on Twitter.

It's not acceptable for ANYONE to say that, male or female. But that is not the reason we dislike gender critical.

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Where are all the transactivists dennouncing Alok Venon and campaigning for him and his supporters to be cancelled? Is not believing that "gender identity" should matter more than sex worse than Venon's views on girls? Why can Venom get away of negative consequences while women have been harrassed both online and irl, doxxed, fired and even be physically assaulted for statating that sex matters?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I am a TRA. I had no idea Alok V Menon said this. When I googled it I found a Quora thread titled Why did non-binary transfeminine activist Alok Vaid-Menon say that little girls can be kinky too?.

One user said Alok was using the original definition of the word kinky meaning weird. But transphobes spun it to make it look like all trans femmes are pedophiles. r/NonBinaryTalk users gave similar answers. https://www.reddit.com/r/NonBinaryTalk/comments/qzr5bq/alok_vaidmenon_controversy/

Here are some interesting comments:

Alok was not saying that little girls actually want to have sex with adult trans people or whatever twisted view bigots have spun it as. They were saying that extreme archetypes of any person are inherently harmful to those people. The perfect little white angel girl doesn't exist because little girls are human, too: let them be human. Let them explore who they are and become the people they want to be.

I don't know, it's complicated. I don't think that Alok's remarks indicate that they are a pedophile. However, I DO think that what Alok said was insensitive, at best. I think that Alok had a serious point that they were making about questioning dominant narratives concerning pure victims and evil perpetrators. I think that they way that they expressed this point was extremely problematic.

Aimee Challenor was cancelled. She enraged millions. Popular subredditts like r/music went private. Reddit hiring her was a bad fuck up for reddit. r/MTF condemned her.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/comments/mcua76/announcement_regarding_the_recent_situation/

It's unclear if she's a pedophile herself but she supported her pedophile father and that is enough to make her an awful person.

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So, you first instict was to think Alok's words were unnaceptable but after reading what the official narrative was about him, you now say he was just misunderstood? Please read the full phrase and tell me whether you think there was a sexual meaning intended or not? Do you think this is a reasonable thing to say to challenge fears of girls being sexually abused in public restrooms?

https://uploads.ovarit.com/d251c4c6-12af-565e-9bc3-1700bba684a8.png

And are we sure Aimee Challenor is really gone from reddit? I mean that guy seems to be the kind that falls upwards. Before reddit he was a member of two political parties.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So TRA are supporting and protecting the man who said little girls are kinky. Providing wishy washy excuses that don’t quite cover what was originally said.

And this is good according to you?

He was maybe not talking about sexual assault even though the entire quote mentions a fear that someone like him will abuse a little girl? Doubtful.

Gb, can you visually detect that Amy challenor and his dad are pedophiles? Is there any way to tell, at a glance, whether or not they will harm you or a child if they feel the opportunity arises?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Alok V Menon isn't a man. The reason they weren't cancelled is because Alok likely meant the word "kinky" in the sense of " relating to, having, or appealing to unconventional tastes". I do agree the comment is in poor taste. Biden called baseball player Satchel Paige a "great negro" and yes it was racist and I do wish there was outrage but it's not worth cancelling.

Aimee Challenor is a she and she was cancelled for supporting her pedophile dad. It's unclear if she molested children herself but she supports people who do.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You cannot police my speech and force me to participate in the erasure of sex gb. Give it a fuckin rest, for once in your life lol.

Do you really think that “adult human females are women” is a worse thing to say than “little girls are kinky and you shouldn’t think they are pure, as in non-sexual” ?

Really? Where else is the word kinky used to describe being non comformative? Eclectic taste is not kink.

If Aimee was cancelled why were hundreds of Reddit accounts banned for calling him out? Why was he able to moderate the teenagers subreddit under a different account? Why did admins and mods move to protect Amy until they were forced to admit his role in his fathers crimes?

Why was someone who interacts with and defends a known pedophile ever allowed to moderate an online space for teenagers in the first place?

Gb, is being cancelled by the internet how we as a society decide what is and isn’t morally acceptable? Is it really how you decide whether someone is good or not?

It seems as though you are trying to claim that if someone is not cancelled, they have not done anything wrong, and that people who are cancelled are irredeemable and wrong. It’s extremely unwise to base your opinions and core values on popular media trends.

I see you have yet again decided to not answer a question asked and instead brought up Biden for some reason. Can you please answer me instead of introducing distractions that bear no relevance.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So being cancelled isn’t as meaningful as you previously tried to imply, is it?

Dislike by a group that is misinformed or ignorant of the issue doesn’t really matter when we are talking about rapists and pedophiles, I think even you can see that.

Even you can see the difference between them not liking us and them saying “little girls are kinky af and you should let adult human males interact sexually with them”

Now if being cancelled is not actually the guide to what’s morally correct, why bring it up?
Do you think what’s popular or trendy is the morally right choice?

[–]Juniperius 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (41 children)

The fact that you believe that any of these examples come anywhere near to being in the same galaxy of bad or harmful as advocating for sexual assault against children is... telling.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (40 children)

So you think it's OK to question a random strangers presence in a PUBLIC SPACE when they are not harassing or bothering you? I'm not OK with advocating for sexual assault against children but two wrongs don't make a right.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

But you're talking about bathrooms so you're clearly defining "public space" as "not personal property" (as opposed to "not private property"). So that means you think it's harassment to question the presence of a random strange who has wandered into:

  • a kitchen of a restaurant

  • any employee only zone

  • the operating theater of a hospital

  • a service of a closed religion that they do not practice

etc, etc...

Or do you actually, after all, understand that some spaces are reserved for specific populations but just don't believe that female bodied people deserve their own spaces?

[–]Juniperius 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

If you really believe this, try wandering up into the cockpit to chat with the pilot next time you fly.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (27 children)

Or do you actually, after all, understand that some spaces are reserved for specific populations but just don't believe that female bodied people deserve their own spaces?

That's pretty much correct. I believe all public restrooms and changing rooms should be unisex. I also believe changing rooms should have stalls and stalls shouldn't have gaps to give people more privacy. Unless someone is peeking in your stall somehow, you have total privacy.

I feel the same about male spaces. Gavin Grimm and Nick H shouldn't have to sue their schools to be able to use the boys bathroom. As boys, they should already have that right.

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

Ok, let's try another aproach. Given that you do not think women (you know the kind who can get pregnant) any space that is exclusive for us, do you feel the same about males who identify as trans (aka "transwomen")? Are such males allowed to have spaces exclusives for them, i.e are they allowed to assamble without the presence of women? If you answer is yes, then what is the difference?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (25 children)

Much of it depends on the space. If trans women wanted bathrooms and locker rooms exclusive to trans women, I would be opposed to it. If trans women wanted a support group for trans women, I wouldn't be opposed to it if the group was about discussing issues specific to trans women. If they are discussing general trans issues, the group should be open to trans men and enbies. Granted, people can gather with and associate with who they want but I don't think public bathrooms and changing rooms should exclude anyone based on sex.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Do you just have some problem with people liking privacy from strangers more than you do? What is so offensive about women not wanting to be topless of taking a shit within two feet of a man? Are they supposed to magically instantly unlearn a lifetime of modesty norms? All to suit a fraction of the population?

Can you explain why privacy and modesty other people may want or need is so problematic to you?

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If support groups for "transwomen" that adress their specifics issues are okay, why plain old women cannot have the same? What is wrong with women (using biological based terms here, remember) having support groups exclusive for them? You keep saying males who identify as "women" (aka, "transwomen") are not different from us, but clearly you don't treat the two groups the same way.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Yes because spaces exclusively for females are not public spaces. Yes because the other option is to silently be frightened until an offence is committed against you or in front of you. You are comparing the molestation of a child to a woman politely saying “this is the womens room, sir” and somehow not seeing any flaw with it

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

The person who they confronted was a woman though. What if that person was a detransitioning trans man and still has a male sounding voice?

In my state it's illegal to deny "the use of rest rooms, locker rooms, or other facilities consistent with a person's gender identity." When I was in college signs were posted in each bathrooms about the law and anyone who harasses a person in the restroom will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. These signs were posted in vocational school, and are posted in public parks and libraries. Not only do I consider it harassment, the state does too and will prosecute you for this.

https://dhr.ny.gov/genda

If you want a space exclusively for females, you are welcome to create one in your own home.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Your state laws are not universal. Your state is your state. My nation is not yet so foolish. Asking a question is not harassment just because you say so.

So women can stay home if they want sex segregation? That’s your answer? Women can just stay home if they don’t want to risk being harmed. Yet again you are busting out rhetoric that is dangerously close to victim blaming.

Should women also not wear short skirts to avoid sexual assault? Don’t carry a big purse if we don’t want them snatched? Should we stay home all day so nobody breaks our door locks? Should immunocompromised people stay home if they don’t want someone to sneeze directly on them?

Or is there a actually a social norm amongst most of society where people put in place safeguards to ensure maximum safety?

Do you object to guard rails? Signs pointing out hazards? Helmets? Or are you only upset when women have safeguards?

You are literally advocating for the urinary leash intended to keep women out of public life that was addressed by early feminists. And claiming to be feminist whilst doing it. What a nauseating act of mens rights activism.

Interesting how you continue refusing to answer anything that cannot be turned into your usual misogynistic tra drivel. Why do you insist on using the poorest and least convincing methods to try and convince us tra is anything but misogyny? If you’re ao invested in it, it would be more useful to you to actually address points we make instead of responding to everything with a tangent that’s focused on the endless repetition of your feelings, your states pandering laws, and the same five tired old ovarit links.

Shape up gb.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Women can just stay home if they don’t want to risk being harmed.

When you go outside in public, there is a risk of being harmed. This is true for everyone, men, women and enbies.

Yet again you are busting out rhetoric that is dangerously close to victim blaming.

That is not close to victim blaming.

Do you object to guard rails? Signs pointing out hazards? Helmets? Or are you only upset when women have safeguards?

I don't object to safeguards as long as they are applied to adults EQUALLY. Imagine if only women were told to wear helmets when riding a bike but not men. I would object to that. If a sign claimed something is hazardous to people of a certain race, I would object to that.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Gb this is the stupidest thing I’ve read in weeks.

By this logic prostate prostate or cervix exams are bad because they are not for both sexes. We shouldn’t be extra vigilant for sickle cell anemia in people with African heritage despite the higher likelihood of having it..

Get a clue omg.

You don’t answer questions, you don’t make arguments that amount to anything more than saying “no they don’t!” When told a group does something (even with proof of it) or you glom on just to try and make people use the pronouns you think are right.

Is it deliberate or are you genuinely incapable of engaging beyond a surface level toddler-like repetition of “nope! No it’s not! I don’t like it! No!”

[–]Juniperius 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, 100% I think that it's appropriate. In fact, I once had a job as a bartender in a gay bar. Bartenders took turns at the door, checking coats and so forth. A big part of my job was to say, "excuse me, you realize this is a gay bar, right?" when people came in who looked like they might not be aware of that fact. In order to maintain a gay-friendly space, you have to question random strangers in a public space. Doubly so if you want to maintain a safe space for females.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I'm personally fine with this as long as anyone who physically presents as male (regardless of birth sex) is allowed to enter.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ok but it’s not about you. What about what the people who are actually effected by it want? Are they allowed to have their wants and needs heard or are the only correct or real wants/needs of others the ones you approve of?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just today there was a thread titled If Laverne Cox is an inspiring black woman then so is Rachel Dolezal.

Nothing to add here so please ignore me. but this is actually hilarious and perfect.

Like how? Laverne Cox is a black woman

Like how indeed lol