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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (79 children)

I know because I pay attention and listen to other people. Everything doesn’t have to be studies and statistics- even on Reddit when trans people come up (not on trans related subs), most people confirm what I’m saying. They don’t hold opinions i disagree with- check comments on YouTube, Facebook (though they delete comments a lot there), or people out side of your gender bubble, they agree with GC, withouy even knowing what gc is. So I’m saying they DGAF about trans people either way, they just accept the lie of “just wanting to pee" because they are under-informed and want the well being of others. But when other issues come up, they clearly lean gender critical when they are confronted with the subject.

I don’t think any and all people who hold different opinions than I do are simps. There are thousands of various opinions and beliefs I respect even if I don’t agree, but in this specific subject, absolutely if you’ve allowed a group of obviously extremely mentally ill and that D word I can’t use people convince you that what they are claiming makes even a little bit of sense- brainwashed, or simp.

Gender critical views are all over all of the sites you listed lmao. Yes select people get “canceled”, but the views of the majority are allover. I juuuuust got through watching a gender critical channel on YouTube and this very site links several Twitter threads of people acknowledging how insane tras are. There are even low key subs on Reddit where the comments are full of people laughing at how ridiculous tras sound.

So while yes, the concept of TERFS/radfems/gc are vilified (because we are women…), by and large, the opinions of the general populace who don’t call themselves radfems/gc are allover the interwebs, babes. And they don’t agree with tras. At all.

Interesting how you have so much to say in response to my comment but won’t address that you misinterpreted your own link. The very link that would tell you what I’m typing now.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

Further- People like Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Blaire White who is trans himself, all have thriving social media pages on various platforms and huge followings. Further proof that the issue is not what gc says- it’s that the people associated with gender critical are WOMEN. when it comes from a man’s mouth, widespread agreement, and tras in a corner of the internet crying violence and spouting false statistics and half truths. (Yes I’m aware that those are all conservative men- but even people who aren’t conservatives are in agreement when it comes to trans issues, that’s my point. Even when they disagree with other stuff, they agree here. The fact that non conservatives are even willing to admit they agree with conservatives on anything is just how clear it is that most of the 99% are not here for tra bs)

Even the Wii spa lady was supported, despite the seething rage from tras.

Dave chapelle- not canceled

Queen J K Rowling herself- not canceled. Even amongst tras they’re so desperate to cling to her works that they try to act as if she’s no longer associated with Harry Potter.

Even Maya forestsarter got to come back from her "cancellation"

I think you’re so ensconced in your gender uwu circle jerk bubble that you just don’t see what is actually going on outside of it.

[–]beris😎 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

I mean, can we at least agree that people with more wealth and media/internet presence than small countries cannot be 'canceled'? Implying that jk rowling or dave chapelle could be in literally any social or financial danger is worse than a bad joke.

Edit

Sounded more hostile than I meant, sorry, just mean to say that implying tras ever had a chance of cancelling them was, well... Silly? Sorry.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

I mean, Being fired and being canceled are two different things. You can’t really cancel someone most people don’t know. I already acknowledged that people who refer to themselves as gc/radfem are vilified, threatened, etc and why. So the only one implying what you’re saying I implied is you.

You can literally go on any social media and read any relevant comment section and see thousands of people call out tra bullshit. Most of them don’t lose their jobs or even get their accounts suspended. I know this because I can still see their comments and their account. Yes it does happen sometimes, and it shouldn’t. But my point is still that there are just as many “bigots” online expressing themselves as there are “people just trying to live their truth”.

My whole point was that most people think and say the same shit that the people who do get canceled or fired say- they just don’t call themselves gc/radfems or they aren’t women. And again, even when they do, they don’t generally face repercussions other than tras ganging up on them online while likeminded individuals gang up on the tras.

The point wasn’t even about social or financial danger- it’s about the signs that the general public agrees with gc points more than qt points, regardless of what happens to the person making the points. The point is that when it comes down to it, most people see where Gc is coming from when they have to think deeper on the subject than they normally would.

And some tras literally posted jk Rowling’s personal address online encouraging people to harass her. so she actually could have been in danger. And she got the same death and rape threats most gc women get, probably a thousand times over.

And Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, and Blaire White are all people who could easily be canceled. And they certainly do not have more wealth than small countries. Idk Shapiro’s net worth but for sure the other two.

They attempted to cancel Rowling and punish Chappelle- the general public laughed at them and rolled their eyes for it. THAT’S my point.

[–]beris😎 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

Alright

1) I'm not talking about non public-figure individuals. Non public figures can and have been "cancelled", as was the case with Maya and others. They're the vulnerable ones.

2)Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh and blaire white CAN be cancelled, but they won't be cancelled for having views that made them famous in the first place. Alt-right figureheads are literally completely unaffected by the whims of leftists on Twitter. Milo yia-i think young gay guys getting molested by older men is a good thing-nopolis was cancelled because he went against core alt right beliefs, not because he was racist and sexist and just generally a bad person.

3) my main point is that "attempting to cancel rowling and punish chappelle" is the same as attempting to drink the entire ocean by yourself. As in impossible in every way, shape, and form. So as a whole we should really stop centering conversations about actually real life lives being ruined around literal multi-millionaires and billionaires who don't give two shits about the things they say because they're doing it for profit anyways. While the general public are laughing and rolling their eyes about billionaires being unaffected by social duress they're immune to in the first place, people are having their lives ruined every day.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (23 children)

Okay then you’re not really even talking about what we were talking about so…

  1. Maya was fired. That’s not canceled. And I’m saying that this doesn’t happen to 99% of people who go online and say that sex is real. It shouldn’t have happened to maya. But unless you can show that every person or even most people who say something true on Twitter get fired for it, Im not sure why you are acting like every woman who makes a post on Twitter that tras don’t like loses their job? Also, maya wa supported both verbally and financially by people who thought her being fired was wrong- that’s not being canceled.

-2. The fact that there are enough people out there who agree with Shapiro, Walsh, and White that they could build their platform and not be canceled IS LITERALLY MY POINT. Again, GB and I were talking about the percentage of people who are being “held hostage” to trans demands. I used social media as an indication of how people really feel. I still don’t see why you are trying to say that what I’m saying is wrong and none of your responses are making it clear to me.

-3. And I’m saying, once again, that not only were they not canceled, they were supported and tras were told to calm down and that chappelle and Rowling said nothing wrong/transphobic. That’s what the general public said. To tras. So, yet again- given the context of why this was even brought up by me in the first place- you aren’t proving me wrong. At all. You’re saying what I’m saying but acting like it goes against what I said. They weren’t canceled because nobody really GAF about how upset tras were.

Are there people who get screwed over for their honesty? Absolutely, is it true that most people who are publicly honest about their views on tras/trans people are losing their jobs? No. It’s not. Or we’d see more stories of it. Some people have to put up with pronouns and bathroom shit at school and work, yes it’s bad. But, for hopefully the final time, I was talking about people expressing opinions that differ from the tra party line, on social media. We can all still do that. A lot of people are doing this. And getting more upvotes and support and than the tras arguing with them. I was asked how I know that most people agree with gc. I said the comments people choose to make and the statuses they post allover sm is how. So I’m still not sure what you’re trying to do here with your comments. And I’m tired of repeating myself so have a good one

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (22 children)

I could list a hundred famous people who were canceled for racism or even homophobia. I cannot name a single one who was truly canceled for TraNsPhoBia. Because as much as there’s virtue signaling and faux support, as much as gc gets vilified, when it comes down to it, most people just don’t gaf about trans people complaining. Most people are sick of the complaining.

[–]beris😎 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Uhhh. Maya Forstater? But you're right, time wasting. It got way off track and I didn't explain myself well enough since I was posting in between work. Maybe someday I'll explain better. Have a fun Friday.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

Omg maya forstater wasn’t famous before she got fired. She is known for being fired. I’m talking about Issaih Washington getting fired from grey’s and not really working again for homophobic remarks. I’m talking about Roseanne and Paula Dean and the dude from Seinfeld and Mel Gibson. Name an actual famous celebrity who has been canceled for transphobia? Also, can you link proof that everyone/most people who speaks out about trans issues gets fired?

[–]beris😎 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

My main point was that rich and famous people can't be canceled, so why are you asking me to prove that they have been? You've really lost me, LS.

Also no where once did I say anything remotely resembling "everyone/most people who speaks out against trans issues gets fired". I even looked and the best I could find was that the vague concept of "cancellation" was happening frequently.

It's probably time to stop, huh?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (50 children)

I know because I pay attention and listen to other people. Everything doesn’t have to be studies and statistics- even on Reddit when trans people come up (not on trans related subs), most people confirm what I’m saying. They don’t hold opinions i disagree with- check comments on YouTube, Facebook (though they delete comments a lot there), or people out side of your gender bubble, they agree with GC, withouy even knowing what gc is.

Reddit is not a representative of the entire population. For the most accurate results it's best to survey a large number of random people.

I'm not saying there aren't any gender critical views expressed on reddit. There certainly is, especially on r/OffMyChest and r/AskGayBros. But the biggest GC subs got banned including r/GenderCritical, r/GenderCriticalGuys, r/LGBdroptheT, r/ThisNeverHappens and r/Cancelled. YouTube channels also get banned that GCs have to upload their videos to Odysee. https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/62147/gc-youtubers-moving-to-odysee

I don't think any and all people who hold different opinions than I do are simps. There are thousands of various opinions and beliefs I respect even if I don’t agree, but in this specific subject, absolutely if you’ve allowed a group of obviously extremely mentally ill and that D word I can’t use people convince you that what they are claiming makes even a little bit of sense- brainwashed, or simp.

I know GCs think of trans people as the D word, the word for the cluster B personality disorder, fetishists, AGPs and fujoshis.

So while yes, the concept of TERFS/radfems/gc are vilified (because we are women…), by and large, the opinions of the general populace who don’t call themselves radfems/gc are allover the interwebs, babes. And they don’t agree with tras. At all.

You get vilified because of your anti-trans views, not because you're women. GC subs even those that were male dominated like r/GenderCriticalGuys and r/LGBdroptheT were banned. I've sent an email to reddit admins to make the mod of r/AskGayBros clean up the anti-trans comments or clean it up themselves and perhaps to add a gay trans man to moderate the sub, and I've even corrected my own dad when he purposefully misgendered trans celebrities. My dad is a cis man. It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. If you hold anti-trans views, I will treat you the same.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (49 children)

Im very well aware that Reddit is not a representative of the whole population lmao

Im saying you can see for yourself, even in data, like the data you linked that proves my point, whatever you want to use, be they comments or polls, most people are gc when it comes down to it.

There are plenty of gender critical style videos on YouTube. They just don’t use the phrase gender critical because they know not to or they don’t even know the term. To act as if you can’t find any gc views on YouTube is ridiculous.

We get vilified because trans people know they can attack and vilify women. Plenty of men are outright disgusted my trans people or make fun of them or just don’t agree and they aren’t getting death and rape threats. The only difference is that they are men. They are saying the same shit as radfems. It’s absurd to pretend this isn’t true when it’s out there to hear, read and see. The fact that you have to ask a sub to clean up because the men there say things you don’t like is not proving you’re right- it’s proving you’re wrong.

Nobody, generally speaking, gives a fuck about you trying to be a dictator lol. You think it means anything to the general public that some rando is preaching to them? Tras bitch and moan all day every day and will continue to do so because it’s not working. The rest of us don’t care, it’s just that some of us will be polite and pretend it’s not ridiculous to call a man she/her or a woman he/him.

You just said Reddit doesn’t represent the population so idk why you think it matters that it’s run by tras and they banned some subs. They banned those subs because they were offended by what people who aren’t tras think.

Once again- you just prove my point for me. It’s like we’re a team.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (48 children)

Im very well aware that Reddit is not a representative of the whole population lmao

What I meant is the best way to find out what the general population thinks about something is to survey a large number of random people. You said "Everything doesn’t have to be studies and statistics" even though studies and statistics are the most accurate.

Im saying you can see for yourself, even in data, like the data you linked that proves my point, whatever you want to use, be they comments or polls, most people are gc when it comes down to it.

I know the link I posted says support for trans rights slightly decreased in 2 years. However you said what I want is what an "incredibly small portion of the population wants" do directly quote you. I posted the link to prove that’s not the case. 54.5% is not an "incredibly small portion of the population." Also, every poll poll I found has one thing in common. Women are more likely to be supportive of trans rights than men.

There are plenty of gender critical style videos on YouTube. They just don’t use the phrase gender critical because they know not to or they don’t even know the term. To act as if you can’t find any gc views on YouTube is ridiculous.

I know there are GC videos on YouTube. However, many major sites banned GC views.

We get vilified because trans people know they can attack and vilify women. Plenty of men are outright disgusted my trans people or make fun of them or just don’t agree and they aren’t getting death and rape threats.

Men who are anti-trans aren't popular either. Ben Shapiro is not popular among Americans including Jews like me. Men on r/AskGayBros have been called TERFs when they said something transphobic. When I use the term TERF, I include men.

Tras bitch and moan all day every day and will continue to do so because it’s not working.

Then why have most major websites banned GC views, including GC men?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (47 children)

The surveys say the same thing the comments say. I’ve already addressed this. Your own link shows this.

It keeps getting lower because more people are informing themselves and/or likely getting tired of tras. We’ve covered this. Several times, on several posts.

Major sites may ban gc views (which sites, btw? I see them everywhere all the time), but they have to close comment sections or delete many comments to avoid people viewing their sites from sharing gc views.

Ben Shapiro’s popularity depends on who you ask. And Reddit is run by tras and transmen constantly harass the men on AGB so of course the men there being honest get called transphobic/TERFS, it’s Reddit, It’s like the trans hub of the internet lol. The actual men on AGB aren’t calling each other transphobes, transmen who are salty that actual gay men don’t want them are.

The sites are banned to coddle your trans buddies. As I’ve said, the opinions of the rest of the world are there to see despite the banning. The fact that people still find ways to make their comments and express their opposition when your masters try so hard to silence any dissent is telling. You can go on and on about how a community that mostly clings to online forums because the world doesn’t accept them controls a lot of online forums… who cares? Irl, nobody gaf about what tras are bitching about and we have lives outside of the internet so it’s not as big of a deal to not be able to speak freely everywhere online, we speak freely amongst ourselves (and still find ways to do it online- you keep ignoring the point about there being content and comments all over that lean gc, despite your points)

Why even bother banning sites and trying to control narratives (like how tras told us all not to read jkr’s letter or watch Chappelle’s specials- they told us to just listen to their opinions on both of these)? If you have to go to such lengths to silence others, it comes across as if you are afraid of what’s being said/you think it’s harmful. It can only be harmful if many others agree with it.

The banning and silencing proves nothing but that tras know they are full of shit and narcissism and don’t want others to be able to point it out.

And yet, despite your points that you think prove something meaningful- approval rates for the trans community continues to drop. Support in general for trans people continues to drop, even if slowly. I’m not sure how you think that means people are on your side.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (46 children)

Major sites may ban gc views (which sites, btw? I see them everywhere all the time), but they have to close comment sections or delete many comments to avoid people viewing their sites from sharing gc views.

Reddit banned all the gender critical subs in 2020. Ovarit has a circle called o/Cancelled where they talk about people being banned from sites for expressing GC views. Just today on the circle you will find posts about Exulansics YouTube and Twitter account terminated and Tumblr blocking content with tags including "radfem", "misogyny", "sexism", "gender critical" and "girl" on iOS.

And Reddit is run by tras and transmen constantly harass the men on AGB so of course the men there being honest get called transphobic/TERFS, it’s Reddit, It’s like the trans hub of the internet lol. The actual men on AGB aren’t calling each other transphobes, transmen who are salty that actual gay men don’t want them are.

Trans men are not harassing cis men on r/AskGayBros. The problem is when trans men post or when there is any discussion about trans men, the cis men on the sub (not all though) claim that trans men aren't men, that they are women, that cis men who are attracted to trans men have to be bisexual and not monosexual gay men. Some users say they and other cis gay men aren't attracted to trans men because they are homosexual, even though being attracted to trans men doesn't make you less gay. It's totally fine not to be attracted to trans people personally. Trans men are "actual men" and men who are attracted to other men have the right to be in gay spaces like r/AskGayBros. For the most part part I haven't seen trans men harass anyone on the sub.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (44 children)

Reddit banned gc subs… yet gc leaning comments are allover Reddit. That’s kinda my whole point… you constantly repeating that a forum run by tras banned gc subs isn’t really a point. We all know, that’s literally why we are here- yet comments tras dislike are still allover reddit despite the bans. I honestly don’t know how else to explain this? What are you not understanding?

Sure, you can point out specific bans, but what about the actual comments from thousands of users on all of these forums? Why are you ignoring this?

The gay men on AGB are pretty clear about hating the posts from transmen ans are clear on how they feel about transmen in general. I don’t think it’s your place to say they aren’t being harassed if that’s the sentiment they’ve expressed. They don’t always use the word harass, but it’s clear they hate when transmen make their desperate posts.

If that’s “the problem”, you have yet again proven my point for me. Despite the bans and restrictions and constant bitching, gay men are still saying the same shit.

And again, for what must be the hundredth time: can you site proof that transmen are men? If not, it’s pretty reckless and disingenuous to claim that they are. It’s pretty clear that the men on AGB don’t see them as such… which… has been my point this whole time lmao

Eta: “would you date me?” “Why won’t you date me?” “You’re awful if you don’t date me!” “Here’s why you should consider dating me” Over and over and over again despite them making it clear that they hate those posts (and making the answer pretty fucking clear several times) is kind of harassment. If a man did that to a woman you’d know it was harassment, odd that you don’t see it because the harassers are trans

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (43 children)

I haven't seen much harassment on that sub. There are sometimes posts about trans men. There was a post asking users if they would date an AFAB enby who was male presenting. I see nothing wrong with that post. There are also posts once in a while that gay men should date X group or they are awful, etc. Those are not OK either. Unfortinately the mod is extremely lenient and doesn't remove those kind of posts.

However frequently on that sub gay cis men are telling gay trans men they are female even though they aren't or saying men do not have vaginas. Most men don't have vaginas but some do. r/ActualLesbians doesn't tolerate this kind of transphobia, why should AGB? If I were a mod there, I would ban any post that would be more appropriate for gender critical or LGBdroptheT. I asked the Reddit admins to add a trans man as a mod.

[–]Juniperius 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (39 children)

Who the heck are you to tell r/AskGayBros how they should be modding their sub?!? You are not gay, nor a man, not by the real definitions and not by the TRA definitions. You think you have the right to invade the space of a marginalized community and insist that they should only be gay the way you, a heterosexual, think is an appropriate way to be gay? WTF is wrong with you?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (38 children)

In 2020, Reddit banned all the GC subs. Yet despite this, r/AskGayBros continues to be a platform for transphobic content. I do think if they explicitly banned trans men they would have also been banned.

I am well aware (cis) gay men are a marginalized group. Trans men are also a marginalized group. If the sub was saying things that are racist to black gay men, I'd call it out. If the sub said anti-Semitic thinks to gay Jews, I'd call it out. In this case, cis gay men are saying transphobic things to trans gay men, I'd call it out also. Being a part of a marginalized group doesn't give you the right to be hostile to other marginalized groups.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Again- it’s not your place to say that it’s nothing harassment if the men on that sub feel harassed.

And idk how old you are but you need to grow out of thinking that what you personally think is always accurate and right instead of simply being what you personally think.

It is not at all a fact that a transman is not a female. Until you can provide proof of that statement, you saying it means nothing. If transmen weren’t female, they’d not be transmen. No man has a vagina. Transmen do. They are two very different things. And like I said, the onus is on the people claiming that TMAM to prove it. No one has EVER successfully done that.

And actuallesbians doesn’t have any actual lesbians, just a bunch of men with mental issues and some bisexual women or even straight women virtue signaling.

Having a transman ruin the AGB sub by being a mod wouldn’t change the opinions rampant there (and amongst gay men in general), all that would accomplish is gay men finding another outlet and their comments being deleted.

You can censor the rest of us- you clearly can’t brainwash all of us. That’s what you don’t seem to get. It doesn’t matter how effective tras are at silencing reality online, reality still exists and is acknowledged irl. That has been a huge part of the point I’ve been making.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

r/ActualLesbians is full of actual lesbians. There are also plenty of monosexual lesbians on that sub. If reddit banned all the GC subs and transphobic content is rampant on AGB, they should go to. I do think if the sub explicitly banned trans men they would have been banned also.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know what you want to prove with this talk about cancelling. Big Tech (and MSM, too) making their best efforts trying to ban any trans critical content doesn't prove most people think TWAW and TMAM. It proves that transactivists are quite powerfull and influential, which is why they have managed to push their policies across several countries behind everyone's back.

So, are you or any other QT user explain to me how trans identified people be so marginalized if they have the support from big companies, the media and several goverments? Which is the truth, GB? Do most people accept "trans identities" or there is so much transphobia in the world that there is an epidemic of trans murders and suicides?