Trans people/QT: What is the best or most important thing gender critical people can do to help you?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (118 children)

Stop trying to keep us out of care and trying to make sure we don’t have any rights?

Like there’s a whole lot that boils down to treat us like humans deserving of respect and stop trying to make it hard or impossible for us to access care.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (36 children)

I always wonder how transwomen have the audacity to accuse women of trying to make sure you all don’t have any rights lmao. Add to that you complaining that we don’t treat you like human beings. The self awareness is just nonexistent.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (35 children)

You are actively campaigning for us to have less rights. How else can you characterize it.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (34 children)

You’re missing my point as usual lol. Like I said, the self awareness is nonexistent.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (33 children)

You are welcome to keep pretending that isn’t the case I guess. But try imagining a world where all the things gc is pushing for legally. (No Id updates, all transition is elective and therefore cannot be affordable, can’t step into a bathroom etc.)

Now try to imagine living in that world as a trans woman.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

The thing you refuse to acknowledge that almost everyone else here understands is that GC women are not doing anything but trying to uphold our own rights. The fact that women having rights and equality conflicts with the needs and wants of transwomen is not our fault or our problem. What you’re calling us actively trying to take away your rights is in actuality us fighting to maintain and protect our own. If TRAs had left women’s rights (and women. period.) alone, we’d have no issues. You shouldn’t have a right to lie on legal documents, particularly when there are actual human beings who exist as what your false documents claim you are, and you should not be able to invade the safe spaces intended to literally keep you (males) out.

As for the surgery- it doesn’t correct any physical anomaly or abnormality, it’s not saving your life because your body is somehow attacking or killing you- it’s elective as fuck. Womanhood is not boobs and a penetrable hole. I honestly don’t care what it’s considered, I just don’t want my taxes paying for it.

I don’t need to waste my time trying to imagine what it would be like for a male person who is not allowed to disrupt female rights, I’m too busy actually living in the fucked up mess transwomen and tras have created for women and girls.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

Arguing that trans women should have access to affordable care or even any care isn’t about your rights. Arguing we shouldn’t be able to protect ourselves since we have no protections isn’t about you. Arguing protections shouldn’t apply to us because you don’t like the wording isn’t about you

As for the surgery- it doesn’t correct any physical anomaly or abnormality, it’s not saving your life because your body is somehow attacking or killing you- it’s elective as fuck. Womanhood is not boobs and a penetrable hole. I honestly don’t care what it’s considered, I just don’t want my taxes paying for it.

It’s essential Care. Doctors agree. And here you admit you are arguing we shouldn’t have care. That’s my point

Once again you refuse to even acknowledge how terrible life is for us. Why do you even start these conversations if you are just doing up pretend we live in magical rainbow world where trans women have rights or power?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (30 children)

And I literally said I don’t care what you call your surgeries I just don’t want my taxes to pay for it. I didn’t admit you shouldn’t have care, I said it’s literally technically elective as it doesn’t solve any actual issues with or on your body.

I didn’t say shit about your quality of life. I said women have a right to not be vilified and guilt tripped for upholding their rights and protecting their needs. What do you not understand? I didn’t say shit about your rights or power- I said it has nothing to do with women. I swear you are never a part of the same conversations as the rest of us. Even if another qt completely disagreed, they’d at least respond to what the fuck I said. It’s like you have a slew of comments you want to make, and you just wait for someone to engage so that you can make your random, barely related comments regardless of what the other people you’re engaging with actually say.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

And I literally said I don’t care what you call your surgeries I just don’t want my taxes to pay for it. I didn’t admit you shouldn’t have care, I said it’s literally technically elective as it doesn’t solve any actual issues with or on your body.

Calling it elective and saying it shouldn’t be funded is arguing we shouldn’t have access to care.

I’m not getting into this again. Play wherever pretend games you want. I asked you to imagine what life would be like for us if you got what you wanted and you refused even that basic empathy exercise. Hell you responded to this post (which wasn’t addressed to Gc) with a dismissive joke. As you’ve do eloquently stated you don’t give a fuck about us. Which was my point. You refuse to even acknowledge that we are people with needs that need to be considered since we are still people. But we all knew that.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

I didn’t say “they shouldn’t have care”. Saying “you shouldn’t have access to care” is saying you shouldn’t have access to care- I said I shouldn’t have to pay for it.

I don’t refuse to acknowledge shit- I’m saying it’s irrelevant to and for women. That’s the whole point I’m making. I understand that being trans is hard for several reasons- it still doesn’t have anything to do with women. The hardships you go through don’t have anything to do with being female or with females, so what exactly would me considering life through your eyes accomplish? All it would do is tell me what I already know: transwomen have nothing, not identity, not life experiences, NOTHING in common with women. You want to use sympathy and emotion to get women to sacrifice their needs and language and rights for you, and you think that’s right and fair and okay to demand of half the population; it isn’t. You refuse to acknowledge that how transwomen struggle and suffer has literally nothing to do with women. And the reason you refuse to acknowledge that truth is because doing so undoes all of your arguments. You deserve rights. You do not deserve the rights of a class of people you don’t belong to. And you do not deserve the right to infringe on rights of a class of people you don’t belong to. But you can’t have that conversation so you rely on the typical tra tactic of accusing me of hatred and harm instead of actually responding to what I’m saying. Tell yourself whatever the fuck you gotta tell yourself to get through the day- everyone else (except maybe genderbender lol) can see that you’re avoiding responding to what I’m pointing out, as usual.

[–]catoborosnonbinary 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And I literally said I don’t care what you call your surgeries I just don’t want my taxes to pay for it.

The "I do not have condition X so I do not want to pay for it" argument leads to no one having anything paid for by taxpayers and the complete absence of public healthcare. This is a bad idea. Exhibit A: the United States, an allegedly advanced country with much poorer health outcomes than less advanced countries.

I am so pleased to live in New Zealand, a country in which a decent level of fully taxpayer funded healthcare is provided to all residents.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve already explained why I don’t think tax payers should have to fund elective surgery. I didn’t say I didn’t want my tax money going towards other things. I’d gladly see my taxes go towards therapy and mental health support of any kind for people with gender dysphoria. I didn’t say that I think taxpayer funded healthcare shouldn’t be provided- I said elective surgeries, yes including gender surgeries, should be excluded. It doesn’t make sense to treat a mental disorder by giving people elective surgery. And it clearly doesn’t help cure or treat anything but how they feel in their bodies. They are still so obviously mentally ill. With few exceptions, they still seem like they can’t handle reality or fact.

[–]DistantGlimmer 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (40 children)

trying make sure we don’t have any rights?

No one is trying to do that. Latin American immigrants locked in the border camps have no human rights. Trans people in western countries have all the human rights anyone else of their birth sex has. Why are you seemingly incapable of being honest about this?

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 12 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Hey who cares about the people with no rights? Some males want tits and FFS and are expected to pay for it themselves. Who’s the real victim here?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Seriously. Tone deaf like a motherfucker.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Has about as much empathy as the men they call evil beasts but still calls all of us the bad guys. Rich tapestry of self absorption.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (36 children)

You literally are. All but one provision of the civil rights act doesn’t apply to trans people in America. You all are actively campaigning for us to lose access to care and are incapable of going out in public. If you get the laws you all push for trans people can’t Medically transition Because it’s impossible to afford, have no protections, Can’t hide so are guaranteed to be taken advantage of for lack of those protections, and essentially unable to go most places.

[–]DistantGlimmer 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (35 children)

You have no rights to cosmetic surgery or to hide your identity. Transwomen need to learn to deal with their dysphoria in a way that doesn't require them to hide their true identity. I am not against adults transitioning and even getting that covered if it is shown to be medically necessary. but if we are talking about the US where many actually life-threatening procedures are not covered I don't see why an exception should be made for transwomen's psychological needs.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (34 children)

There is an overwhelming avalanche of evidence that transition provides positive mental health changes and dysphoria is unelected by anything else. It’s necessary care.

As long as we can’t hide we are targets for discrimination which we have no legal protection from.

[–]DistantGlimmer 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

I have not seen an "overwhelming avalanche of evidence". The transition seems to help some but others detransition.

Hiding is not the solution. Making being opennly trans more acceptable is a better solution. You have the same rights against discrimination anyone else has. Why do people need all kinds of special privileges based on some bullshit "gender identity" which bluntly cannot be proven to exist? Being gender critical most of us are also gender non-conforming, we support the destigmatization of gender non-conforming people but not the misogynistic notion of gender identity which current trans activism is regrettably based upon.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

It’s literally legal to discriminate against people for being trans here in every area but employment. That’s why we need protections.

Making us into circus freaks Who have to be pariah isn’t going to help us. Those of us luck enough to blend and have real lives should be able to. Actual protections might actually help us.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 10 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 5 fun -  (7 children)

So stop calling kids circus freaks for being trans.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

You are the ones that want to make us freaks. I want to give those who can a chance to hide and make sure those of us who can’t (like me) can still scrape together some semblance of a life.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You’re the only one here who thinks they are freaks. You’re the one dehumanising and othering and degrading trans kids.

Society needs to make the room these kids deserve, not force them into hiding or be called abominations by older people like them.

[–]DistantGlimmer 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Making us into circus freaks Who have to be pariah isn’t going to help us. T>

Holy shit, why do you think your self-loathing is other people's (specifically women's) responsibility to deal with? If anyone GC said this about trans people you'd (actually quite rightly) excoriate them.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Literally none of that was self loathing.

It’s legal to discriminate against trans people and you want to make it impossible to hide you are trans. Guaranteeing discrimination.

My self loathing isn’t a necessary component,

[–]DistantGlimmer 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

You are saying that trans people who don't hide they are trans are "circus freaks". Pretty obvious you can't accept what you actually are and feel the need to hide it. I don't feel this way about trans people neither do the vast majority of GC people. It's your own issues that make you assume other people also think this way.

I obviously don't think it should be legal to discriminate against people for being gender non-conforming or identifying themselves as trans. It is not legal where I live.

[–]penelopekitty 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Actually there isn't. The APA recently refuted the one study that said there was. Their statement said that transition did NOT improve mental health outcomes.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

You are incorrect.

[–]penelopekitty 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I'm not.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

You absolutely are.

[–]penelopekitty 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Nope.

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2020.1778correction

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (37 children)

In what ways do GC people make it impossible for you to access care?

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (31 children)

Gc feminists have all the political power and pass acts allowing people to be fired for being trans. It’s not homophobic old men who think they are all just the most gay and who are in power doing this though. It’s only gc women.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (29 children)

The ones arguing for it are GC feminists. Like foresarters right to insult trans people suit.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

Right, that’s all the gc feminists that are in parliaments. Totally. It’s all women’s fault.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

All the cruelty is our fault too. Every day we are physically attacking and killing transwomen of color with our bigger physical strenght and political force! I am still can't understand why all blame is on women, all attacks are on women - when for transwomen real problem and threat are men?

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Absolutely yes we are solely responsible for the murders committed by men. Because they’re animals with no self control it is up to women to do something to protect the males who are hurt by this. Hens must always let the smallest fox into the coop.

Having self interests is against human decency if you’re a woman. Because underneath all the layers of justification these people gather is the ugly little root of women not being human.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

You really should stop conflating your from be political stance with all women. Not everyone wants trans women to be second class citizens with no rights and no care.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Gc women dont want that either. We just want to keep our rights as women. All the fault in your claim does lie with women. If you don’t want people getting the message that women are to blame for some males sadness don’t say it.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

You not all women, you specifically, are the ones actively pushing policies forbid to have no rights and no care. It’s not “women” it’s gc.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

I wasn’t speaking for all women, I said the blame goes all on women. As in no blame is put on the men in politics who make the bills harming you.

What policies am I pushing that harm you over in America? None. You gonna guess my voting habits and get them wrong by saying I must vote against transgender interests? Cause that’s wrong too.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

You actively argue for our rights to be stripped and is to not have access to care.

[–]kwallio 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

your from be political stance

WTF does this mean?

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[M] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Removed for misgendering. It’s against the rules to misgender other users.

    [–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I think they just meant “your political stance”. Just a typo

    [–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

    Just look at this thread.

    Doctor who chops off TiFs’ breasts calls herself “Tit Wizard” - where is the outrage?

    Why should there be outrage? Adults can do what they want with their bodies.

    [–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Because the surgeon is being crass and casual about something serious like surgery. Duh.

    Also, wtf does this have to do with anything? Why do you always throw on random shit about transmen when they aren’t relevant?

    [–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    But that thread is full of comment's like:

    Mutilating females like that should be illegal.

    Again. Adults can do what they like with their bodies. There are sub comments, which talk about gender affirming surgeries being given to young children, which GC makes a good point. But adults can do what they want with their bodies.

    The sweeping statements you are making here are based on a subset of young people with "gender dysphoria," namely those who developed GD in childhood and persist after puberty. These people are are and were almost exclusively male!

    Ahh yes. Natal females never have gender dysphoria. And GC says they don't deny dysphoria.

    Most people who have mental illnesses that emerge during or after puberty (ADHD, depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc) don't grow out of it either. But we don't treat them by telling them to lean into their manic episodes, hallucinations, and suicidal thoughts.

    Right now the only current treatment for severe dysphoria is transition. I have bipolar and ADHD and I will tell you it’s not the same.

    You sound as if you're considering transition; I don't know how to put this any other way but please don't.

    While I do think people who would like to go through extreme body modifications should be certain this right for them, I am sure most people are doing that, and the PP of that thread would do that if they are considering this.

    I'm guessing that even the "older" women you mention who want to transition, are still young enough to have grown up in the post-Queer Theory, liberal feminism culture of violent porn, sexting, plastic surgery on demand, anal sex, hook up culture, BDSM - and they want none of it.

    ...

    Extreme body modification as a result of not being able to cope with modern womanhood (and I don't blame you for that) is not the answer.

    Dysphoria has NOTHING to do with modern womanhood or wanting to escape misogyny. Most trans men repeatedly stated they did not transition due to misogyny, yet GC continues to speak over trans men, replacing trans men's words with their own.

    Accepting yourself, and the body that houses you, reaching out to other women, working with them to fight for respect and rights for women, will help you find happiness a thousand times more than undergoing dangerous, traumatic surgery to make yourself a facsimile of a man.

    Many people with dysphoria won't be happy until they transition.

    [–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Ma’am this is a Wendy’s.

    Wtf does this have to do with the discussion at hand and why do I in particular need to answer for what other people say?

    The fuck is wrong with you?

    [–]catoborosnonbinary 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I was all for her right to free speech until she did it in her workplace.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Many are pushing for a full ban on transition. Many others are pushing for it to be considered elective procedures and therefore removed as a benefit from insurance plans. This renders it inaccessible to most trans people.

    [–]yousaythosethings 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Well tbf trans organizations are speaking on both sides of their mouths by pushing for self-ID and saying no transition is needed and then also saying that facial feminization surgery and breast implants should be covered by insurance. Do you think those things should be covered by insurance as non-elective?

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Ffs no, breast aug probably not other than in reconstructive cases (mastectomies due to cancer, trauma repair etc.)

    I’m more talking about hormones, top surgery for trans guys, and bottom surgery.

    [–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Many are pushing for a full ban on transition.

    Many? I would say this is an extreme view. Is there some GC organization that has made a public statement saying they believe there should be a full ban on medical transition? I certainly wouldn't support anything like that, and I doubt the majority of posters here would, either.

    [–]catoborosnonbinary 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Some GC activists have lobbied against taxpayer funding for gender services.

    [–]penelopekitty 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    How are we doing that? What rights do you not have?

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Housing discrimination and Medical discrimination To start

    Not to mention access to necessary facilities, assurances that we won’t be subjected to sexual abuse based cruel and unusual punishment, discrimination in access to business and services.