Trans people/QT: What is the best or most important thing gender critical people can do to help you?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

Arguing that trans women should have access to affordable care or even any care isn’t about your rights. Arguing we shouldn’t be able to protect ourselves since we have no protections isn’t about you. Arguing protections shouldn’t apply to us because you don’t like the wording isn’t about you

As for the surgery- it doesn’t correct any physical anomaly or abnormality, it’s not saving your life because your body is somehow attacking or killing you- it’s elective as fuck. Womanhood is not boobs and a penetrable hole. I honestly don’t care what it’s considered, I just don’t want my taxes paying for it.

It’s essential Care. Doctors agree. And here you admit you are arguing we shouldn’t have care. That’s my point

Once again you refuse to even acknowledge how terrible life is for us. Why do you even start these conversations if you are just doing up pretend we live in magical rainbow world where trans women have rights or power?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (30 children)

And I literally said I don’t care what you call your surgeries I just don’t want my taxes to pay for it. I didn’t admit you shouldn’t have care, I said it’s literally technically elective as it doesn’t solve any actual issues with or on your body.

I didn’t say shit about your quality of life. I said women have a right to not be vilified and guilt tripped for upholding their rights and protecting their needs. What do you not understand? I didn’t say shit about your rights or power- I said it has nothing to do with women. I swear you are never a part of the same conversations as the rest of us. Even if another qt completely disagreed, they’d at least respond to what the fuck I said. It’s like you have a slew of comments you want to make, and you just wait for someone to engage so that you can make your random, barely related comments regardless of what the other people you’re engaging with actually say.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

And I literally said I don’t care what you call your surgeries I just don’t want my taxes to pay for it. I didn’t admit you shouldn’t have care, I said it’s literally technically elective as it doesn’t solve any actual issues with or on your body.

Calling it elective and saying it shouldn’t be funded is arguing we shouldn’t have access to care.

I’m not getting into this again. Play wherever pretend games you want. I asked you to imagine what life would be like for us if you got what you wanted and you refused even that basic empathy exercise. Hell you responded to this post (which wasn’t addressed to Gc) with a dismissive joke. As you’ve do eloquently stated you don’t give a fuck about us. Which was my point. You refuse to even acknowledge that we are people with needs that need to be considered since we are still people. But we all knew that.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

I didn’t say “they shouldn’t have care”. Saying “you shouldn’t have access to care” is saying you shouldn’t have access to care- I said I shouldn’t have to pay for it.

I don’t refuse to acknowledge shit- I’m saying it’s irrelevant to and for women. That’s the whole point I’m making. I understand that being trans is hard for several reasons- it still doesn’t have anything to do with women. The hardships you go through don’t have anything to do with being female or with females, so what exactly would me considering life through your eyes accomplish? All it would do is tell me what I already know: transwomen have nothing, not identity, not life experiences, NOTHING in common with women. You want to use sympathy and emotion to get women to sacrifice their needs and language and rights for you, and you think that’s right and fair and okay to demand of half the population; it isn’t. You refuse to acknowledge that how transwomen struggle and suffer has literally nothing to do with women. And the reason you refuse to acknowledge that truth is because doing so undoes all of your arguments. You deserve rights. You do not deserve the rights of a class of people you don’t belong to. And you do not deserve the right to infringe on rights of a class of people you don’t belong to. But you can’t have that conversation so you rely on the typical tra tactic of accusing me of hatred and harm instead of actually responding to what I’m saying. Tell yourself whatever the fuck you gotta tell yourself to get through the day- everyone else (except maybe genderbender lol) can see that you’re avoiding responding to what I’m pointing out, as usual.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

I didn’t say “they shouldn’t have care”. Saying “you shouldn’t have access to care” is saying you shouldn’t have access to care- I said I shouldn’t have to pay for it.

Care that isn’t subsidized is only for the rich. That means it’s not accessible. No one can afford solo care but the lidicrously rich which most trans people aren’t. If you got your way I personally wouldn’t have been able to access care and I’m not alone in that.

I’m not asking about your reasons. I’m saying you are pushing an agenda that makes trans women’s lives basically unviable and then expressly refusing to exercise empathy. Just saying too bad and Keep pushing the agenda that trans people will have nothing and then saying it isn’t your problem.

Whether you think we are women or not we are still people and your agenda is basically saying “sure trans people should have rights” while actively arguing for all of them to be removed.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

I think that gender dysphoria is a mental illness. I don’t know of any other mental illness that is managed or treated by drastically altering someone’s body, sterilizing them, and or intentionally giving them a hormonal imbalance. When that becomes common treatment for mental illness- I will no longer see transition surgeries as elective. As it stands, conversing with you and just a lot of the other things I’ve seen and come across from various trans people both online and irl, it seems pretty evident that while those surgeries may make you feel better about your body- it doesn’t seem to be helping many of you on the mental health front overall. There’s quite a few detransitioners as well as people committing suicide after transitioning (those rates of suicide don’t drop nearly as much as tras like to claim post transition). You specifically seem entirely miserable and full of self loathing. You threaten self harm constantly- even if it’s just hypothetical, and to be frank you tick off quite a few of the boxes people check to see if someone is a narcissist (like- your response is always about you and your needs even if the discussion is about billions of people). Surgeries don’t guarantee passing, and that seems to be a whole other issue where the “solution” is to developmentally stunt, sterilize and potentially harm children or have ffs and other extreme procedures, which even you don’t think should be covered. So sounds like those surgeries don’t help as much as you insist they do. They obviously do nothing to cure anything but your discomfort, considering the need to try to force or guilt the world into adopting your preferences for language and ideology, and pressuring people to see you as women/men. So why should my taxes pay for an ineffective solution that leads to more issues for the greater majority?

The thing is, I can absolutely feel empathy for your plight, but choose not to sacrifice my equality and needs over it. I can have the opinion that doctors should find a better less invasive (invasive for everyone- not just trans people) form of treatment. As I’ve said, so so so many times- and this is something I think you really need to acknowledge and I’d appreciate a direct response to it so I’m gonna put it in bold (yes I’m calling you out and asking you to address this directly): if women advocating to protect and maintain their rights has a negative affect on TW, that is 100% a side effect of TW infringing on female rights, it is not the goal of gc women. The goal of gc women is to uphold female rights. Not to erode trans rights. Do you understand the difference? everytime you use this argument, you are saying that women are wrong for wanting to maintain their rights because of how it may affect some males. You do realize that, right? How do you justify that thinking?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

I think that gender dysphoria is a mental illness. I don’t know of any other mental illness that is managed or treated by drastically altering someone’s body, sterilizing them, and or intentionally giving them a hormonal imbalance.

Well, others might be if they were totally uneffected by other therapies and also were treated by body changes. Also it doesn’t create an imbalance.

As it stands, conversing with you and just a lot of the other things I’ve seen and come across from various trans people both online and irl, it seems pretty evident that while those surgeries may make you feel better about your body- it doesn’t seem to be helping many of you on the mental health front overall.

I literally went from actively suicidal to functional. I tried everything else available then made the decision between transition and suicide. That was the choice.

I am miserable. But importantly less than pretransition. Despite knowing I will be alone for life, losing my career, and most of my human connections. I’m still way better off.

You threaten self harm constantly- even if it’s just hypothetical,

I don’t thereaten self harm. I’m honest what the world you are trying to make would do to me. Because again that was what drove me to transition.

Surgeries don’t guarantee passing

I never said they did.

The surgeries aren’t ineffective. They are extremely affective with an amazing satisfaction rate ate tackiling a disease with no other treatment. If Prozac Or therapy should be covered So should transition.

if women advocating to protect and maintain their rights has a negative affect on TW, that is 100% a side effect of TW infringing on female rights, it is not the goal of gc women. The goal of gc women is to uphold female rights. Not to erode trans rights. Do you understand the difference?

I understand that you think there is some difference. But when you advicate for your rights regardless of the harm to others that’s not advocating for equality. It’s actually arguing against equality because you are arguing for you to have rights at the direct expense of others, essentially what you are arguing we are doing. I disagree that trans rights harm women’s rights. But where they can infringe like things like space access you can see I’ve stayed I prefer third spaces. Though I acknowledge that they won’t exist most places absent a mandate.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

I don’t think surgery is the right course of action to treat mental illness. That being said, it ain’t my body. Idgaf, I just shouldn’t have to pay for it. That’s all I have to say. It shouldn’t come from my taxes. Get it however else you can

  1. So you’re less miserable... still miserable still demonstrating symptoms of mental illness even noticeable through reddit/saidit. You’re not a convincing story, buddy. Sorry.

  2. If we played the “Masks threatens to kill themselves or self isolate because women want their own rights” drinking game we’d all have alcohol poisoning. A suicide threat is a suicide threat. And you make them often.

  3. Like I said- the surgeries help how you feel in your body, the behaviors and problems of many trans people indicate they do fuck all for your mental health aside from feeling more comfortable in your body.

  4. Are you fucking kidding me? Women did not fight for their rights with you in mind. You stole them. You undermined them. Period. That’s just what happened. Equality doesn’t mean inclusivity. Let me put that in bold in case you missed it: equality doesn’t mean inclusivity. Regardless of what it means for any male, females have sex based rights and needs. You arguing that those rights and needs should be set aside for select males, because you don’t personally think they harm women’s rights (which- you’re not a female, not your call to make. It’s at best an even split with how women feel, and I’d venture to say women lean gc offline)- that’s upholding male privilege. You’re literally advocating to allow some males to access female specific rights. Female rights are sex based, sharing those rights with males makes them no longer female rights. That’s the opposite of equality. That’s patriarchy at its finest. To say that male needs matter more than female rights and call it equality is gross.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

So you’re less miserable... still miserable still demonstrating symptoms of mental illness even noticeable through reddit/saidit. You’re not a convincing story, buddy. Sorry.

Notable and substantially improved. My issues now are about loneliness and transphobia. I look like an ape monster. I’m not gonna be happy but I can hold a job and am not actively suicidal. The only reason for that is transition.

You can’t magic up money. Insurance covers it or it doesn’t happen. If you want to ignore literally all medical evidence and doctors opinions you can do that for your body but denying other people care access because you don’t like it is exactly what hobby lobby did with birth control. It was horrific when they did it and also when you do.

I’ve never threatened suicide. But I have tried to illustrate to you what what you are espousing does to trans people. You just don’t care. That’s not a suicide threat.

Like I said- the surgeries help how you feel in your body, the behaviors and problems of many trans people indicate they do fuck all for your mental health aside from feeling more comfortable in your body.

You seem to be under the impression that anything less than total removal of symptoms is a failure. Improvement counts in medicine and transition almost always improves the life of the trans person. When it doesn’t it’s generally because of societal stigma not transition itself.

  1. Equality means equality. You are arguing against equality because you are pushing for a bunch of things to hurt trans people without anything to replace them. That’s what you are doing. If you can justify it your yourself be my guest, but I call it like I see it. You are arguing for a Wave if negative changes to trans people’s lives and not arguing ways to even soften the blow. That’s not equality.

You want to claim equality but still argue for the removal of our rights, you need to be arguing for rights to replace them. If you want to pretend you are pushing equality then you can’t argue trans women should have no access to necessary spaces without also arguing those spaces need to be mandated. Not “ would be nice” or “don’t object” need. Otherwise you aren’t arguing for equality. You are arguing for your rights and fuck trans people, not equality.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

When anyone suggests rights reforms and things like third spaces you immediately shoot them down as impossible and say the only option is no women-only spaces.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I’m gonna bypass all of the mental health stuff because there’s no point in going back and forth. Mentally ill people don’t always realize how apparent their illness is. I acknowledged that it helps- I’m saying it doesn’t look like it helps enough.

I am not arguing against equality. You literally are. You’re literally arguing for male privilege to extend so far that it overpowers female sex based rights. That is not equality, no matter how many times you say it is, it never will make any sense. It’s the literal opposite of equality. I don’t have to find a solution for your issues to say that the solution being stealing from women is not in favor of equality. Women are not your caretakers. You are not our responsibility. WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. I don’t “need to be arguing” for a fucking thing for you. Do it for yourself or find a solution that doesn’t undermine female rights. If you cannot do that, at the very least please don’t add insult to injury by claiming that you’re doing this in the name of equal rights.

Frankly- Arguing for my rights and fuck trans people is equality. If my rights are sex based and the point of my rights in the first fucking place was to establish equality it is incredibly backwards and self serving to act as if attempting to uphold those rights meant to give me equality means I’m somehow the one who’s not advocating for equality. Equality doesn’t mean you get your way masks. What you want is total male privilege.

[–]catoborosnonbinary 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And I literally said I don’t care what you call your surgeries I just don’t want my taxes to pay for it.

The "I do not have condition X so I do not want to pay for it" argument leads to no one having anything paid for by taxpayers and the complete absence of public healthcare. This is a bad idea. Exhibit A: the United States, an allegedly advanced country with much poorer health outcomes than less advanced countries.

I am so pleased to live in New Zealand, a country in which a decent level of fully taxpayer funded healthcare is provided to all residents.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve already explained why I don’t think tax payers should have to fund elective surgery. I didn’t say I didn’t want my tax money going towards other things. I’d gladly see my taxes go towards therapy and mental health support of any kind for people with gender dysphoria. I didn’t say that I think taxpayer funded healthcare shouldn’t be provided- I said elective surgeries, yes including gender surgeries, should be excluded. It doesn’t make sense to treat a mental disorder by giving people elective surgery. And it clearly doesn’t help cure or treat anything but how they feel in their bodies. They are still so obviously mentally ill. With few exceptions, they still seem like they can’t handle reality or fact.