all 42 comments

[–]TheAmeliaMay 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (13 children)

Or you could just use SaidIt, like you're doing now.

[–]icebong[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Indeed, and saidit is the most free place i have found so far. But reddit also started as a ground for free speech, also we need to figure out the bot/troll situation a little better.

[–]socks 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

Sorry to argue - but Reddit did not start as a ground for free speech. Reddit - when it started - would run surveys, where we learned that most of us were in our early 20s and worked in IT. There was no discussion of "free speech" - in the political sense - as the site continued much of the bulletin board style discussions that existed in the 1980s and 90s. It was a news aggregator site. I could say more about it, and the corporatization, but my point regarding 'free speech' is that ALL social media and news aggregator sites interpret this to their own purposes, and it's become a talking point specifically for the 'radical right', who are traditionally the loudest and most aggressive in a network, and can use this free speech approach to their own benefit and to attack others (see Gab, Ruqqus, Parler, &c). Reddit and other sites will delete disinformation and misinformation, partially because much of it is pushed by highly organized, well-paid propaganda companies, shills and influencers, in order to manufacture consent (eg. re. Chomsky's 'Manufacturing Consent' and many other publications, including Lasch's 'The Culture of Narcissism', &c). For some of us on these websites our "free speech" is valued, and for for others, it isn't. Discourses on all social media and news aggregator websites are constructed. They're not purely organic developments of free speech.

[–]TheAmeliaMay 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

the 'radical right', who are traditionally the loudest and most aggressive in a network

I'd argue it's the radical left, because left-wing extremism has become the norm on websites like Reddit. The only reason you notice the alt-right is because they aren't as common as the alt-left — and usually what's considered "right-wing" is anything a step to the right of Karl Marx. I'm a Centrist, and they think I'm basically Hitler.

Reddit and other sites will delete disinformation and misinformation, partially because much of it is pushed by highly organized, well-paid propaganda companies, shills and influencers, in order to manufacture consent

Yeah, they'll get rid of misinformation they don't like, but nine times out of ten they remove content with the express purpose to manipulate the narrative and push an agenda.

[–]socks 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Agreed on many of these points - though I would still argue that the 'left' is traditionally weak in the face of the right-wing aggressive tactics, disinformation and misinformation. I think Neoliberalism has failed because of this weakness. In my view, Obama failed in his second term because he would not work on executive orders that would challenge Republicans. He was weak and lazy, in my view. Trump, on the other hand, did not do anything presidential, and instead helped his handler's fuck up the US. These aggressive Republications pushed an extremely hostile agenda during the past 4 years, that continued to support the 1% at the expense of the 99%.

[–]TheAmeliaMay 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

There's a major difference between how Democratic Presidents act in office and how literal Communists controlled by the CCP act on the Internet. Even then it isn't about strength, but rather who controls the website. Moderators get to control which group dominates, and it's usually the left.

Honestly, both parties have been weak since the Roosevelts. The reason establishment Republicans hate Trump so much is precisely because he's aggressive; the GOP isn't supposed to do anything, their job is to keep the Democrats from doing anything.

The Democrats's job is to either offer legislation people like so it can be struck-down by the GOP or to propose "compromises" that people don't like, but will allow them to ignore the issue for years. That's why establishment Democrats didn't like Bernie: he wanted to actually get stuff done.

Trump and Bernie are both pretty weak, though. Trump couldn't even ban a Chinese spy-ware app (TikTok), and Bernie didn't even make demands when he dropped out and endorsed Biden.

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Puppets Obama and Trump did exactly as they were supposed to do.

It's just ONE war-hawk party with two flapping wings distracting us/U.S.

Class war has always existed, but it's getting worse as they resort to any means to control. All of this has been planned long ago and is now being executed, from The Great Reset for their /s/Agenda21_Agenda2030 to the perpetual doom and gloom about the crumbling American Empire and rise of China.

It's all smoke and mirrors and a fancy charade as valid as this lockdown caused by hysteria an impotent "pandemic". 100% manufactured crises for disaster capitalism vultures to swoop in.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

This post by OP reads like a hammy Chinese shill introduction.

Recap ambiguous censorship grievances.

I hate it so much that any time i post on Facebook or Reddit, that we should question the official narrative as it makes no sense.

Wat?

my comment gets deleted and i get banned.

Also, wat?

Then there's talk about mod stuff.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Good skeptical eye!!!

I just thought it was simple and/or lazy and or youth spouting off and/or someone gonna promote crypto stuff. Strange I hadn't considered shills/infiltrators.

But now that you mention it. It didn't sound authentic to me either. This summer and fall I red pilled my neighbour, often playing chess. Building and moving shit and then fucking up my back it's been months. But yesterday I went up for a game of chess (and I lose 99%) and I brought my fave documentaries and some other stuff he'd like so we watched the first half of "Who Is Bill Gates?" by James Corbett. Last year I tweaked his shit up good and finally got him Internet - a whole other story. He's a Facebook junkie and not tech savvy at all. Only because of my extreme outspokenness he's managed to remain completely skeptical of all this shit - and he now gets in battles on Facebook with folks he knows. Unfortunately they don't have the skills to debate and turn folks civilly through compassionate convincing.

Today I warned him, again, to not get too extreme on Facebook or they'll shadowban (a new term for him today) or simply ban him and he'll lose ALL his contacts.

Today we watched the second half of the Bill Gates docu. He's hated Gates since this summer via me. The first game started great with me but then I lost. The second he beat me in 4 moves - again. The third game I won!!! That's like #4 or maybe #6 for me. To be fair, the documentary distracted us both.

In summary, I didn't care enough about the OP to even look up what a DAO is, nor did I care to bother debating the buy in idea because that can obviously always be bought out. Trust is earned by actions over time. If those fuckers want to infiltrate they have to earn "authenticity" the hard way.

Tao Of Pooh... Banned in China?

[–]icebong[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Don't feed the trolls. This were were we all report him for "Dragging down discussion on Pyramid Of Debate". Most of the times trolls will continue with the left/right illusion, I think that's a dead give away. Also calling out the government these days automatically make me a communist chill.

It's becoming too obvious.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Turns out I LOVE THE DAO IDEA!!!
/s/PhoenixForum/comments/7i2q/how_to_build_a_dao_decentralized_autonomous/

However, I stand by my comment that Tom was clever being skeptical where I wasn't.

However, Tom also calls many shills that I won't without proof, though they may often display shill behaviour.

/u/Tom_Bombadil is our first line of defense.

[–]icebong[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yes it did. Aaron Swartz(1986-2013), co-founder of Reddit who stood for free speech. Do not let Reddit erase him. They killed him in the end.

[–]socks 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I agree he was killed. I'm still upset about it. He also made significant contributions to public access to information, which is possibly what got him killed. As for free speech, while he was briefly part of Reddit, I agree that he had that interest (as noted in his complaints about Condé Nast), but his interests were not necessarily shared with Steve and Alexis, or especially Condé Nast after their first year (hence Aaron was fired in Jan 2007).

[–]bobbobbybob 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

and the mad mods...

[–][deleted]  (10 children)

[deleted]

    [–]icebong[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

    , but you need to act on it so that it doesn't affect you.

    I'm trying to reach the normies. Im just preaching to the choir here, we all know whats going on here.

    [–]Popper 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    probably a bad idea if doing it on fb with your real name. If on reddit keep a bunch of fake names and then just post a fact then don't worry about the replies or if you are banned. If you are banned who cares, go to another name. The point is to wake up normies and reddit is full of lurkers that hardly ever post and just read. You see a lot of people posting facts when you sort by controversial and yeah they're often banned.

    [–]bobbobbybob 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    I'm trying to reach the normies

    IRL, face to face is the way to go.

    [–][deleted]  (5 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

      Facebook is a walled garden,

      upon which, from my Overton window, I see leaves of wisdom and freedom lifelessly blown away.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

        I was being semi-silly while also serious, poetically juxtaposing your superlative description of Facebook as a "walled garden" against the concept of the Overton window.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
        https://saidit.net/search?q=Overton+window
        https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Overton+window

        "Garden" sounds luxurious and peaceful. IMO, Facebook is like a modern mind-prison boob-tube, but stupider - akin to gladiators in the circus where it's supposed to be fun but really it's traumatic.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Everything is political, and those with power (technocracy) most of all.

          Yes. The prissy bitches used to be fringe and far outside the Overton window, that now includes them - prominently. You'd understand that if you'd read any of the links

          /s/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/6zn2/actual_political_compass_2020/

          I looked this up for you if you don't like reading:
          https://YouTube.com/results?search_query=Overton+window

          [–]Akali 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Reddit still have a use in specific subreddit. Like, I'm thinking of r/books for instance.

          But yeah, if the reddit is either about politics, news coverage or education, then it's censorship land.

          [–]RightousBob 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

          Not sure about the global governance suggestion, but I agree with everything else you posted. The censorship is proof positive that the narrative of the mainstream is weak, otherwise it would stand on it's own. Welcome to saidit, and remember the flak is heaviest right over the target.

          [–]bobbobbybob 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          and remember the flak is heaviest right over the target.

          also, when you are being a total douche. Thoughtful self-analysis is a vital component of effective activism. Otherwise you are just another looney ranting about child slaves on mars

          [–]ah2020 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          So unhealthy that your views are silenced. I keep repeating this but the people being silenced at the moment are generally very politically different to me, however that does not mean it is acceptable to muzzle them. Free speech is incredibly important. We can only receive salient information via the flow of free speech. We can only be alerted to problems with the politics we're affiliated with via the flow of free speech. I am left-voting myself but as tech is dominated by the left it is strangling the voices of the right. Extremely unsettling.

          [–]Akali 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Poland made the draft law recently to stop the removal of conservative comment. https://www.jurist.org/news/2021/01/poland-prepares-draft-law-to-make-social-media-censorship-illegal/

          We'll see if it works, but it could be use as a precedent in other country.

          [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Reddit banned me a lot. It was always for something they called "violence", though it was always a response to a post I made in which there was no violence or hate. They read hate into everything. It's a shame for them though, because if they ban you for hate when you arent feeling hate, it makes them seem paranoid. They lose credibility.

          [–]scrubking 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Stop posting in those places?

          [–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

          Complaining is pointless. Find a programmer willing to work on a good social forum and I will help support him.

          [–]AmericanMuskrat 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          I remember you making that offer. I honestly wrote it off as not serious, but I have an interest in this too. I'm not your guy, I haven't done any programming in over a decade but if I run across anyone that might be useful I'll steer them your way.

          [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

          I suggest you paraphrase yoru comments so that intelligent people will comprehend what you'er gettign at. The others will just be amazed at all the syllables that you use.

          [–]bobbobbybob 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          are there intelligent people left on reddit or facebook?

          [–]hfxB0oyA 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          I hate it so much that any time i post on Facebook or Reddit

          That was your first mistake.

          [–]blowininthewind 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          support reveddit, a mirror for removed reddit posts.

          github: https://github.com/reveddit/reveddit

          site itself: https://www.reveddit.com/about/

          this goes without saying, but support wayback machine.

          [–]madcow-5 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          You're a lot more likely to get banned off social media for discussing COVID19 than you are to die if you get COVID19.

          [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          stop using facecrack and twatter.

          [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

          /u/d3rr and /u/fschmidt, I should get responses to you tomorrow morning when I tackle my messages, meanwhile, I have an idea here that I'd love to hear your thoughts on, semi-related to the OP.

          Whether you're for a forum of permanent immutable records (ie. blockchain, IPFS, Twitter, mediawiki, etc) or one you can edit and scrub, I think this could work for both.

          If I'm not mistaken SaidIt is like a mediawiki in that every time you edit it keeps the old record and points to a new record. Nothing is destroyed (except by admins). From what little I know IPFS was having issues with mutable records like this years ago and I can only guess they've resolved them.

          Some people object to having an open blockchain, because they don't want it all out there forever. Personally I have no problem with that, but it's not about me, and I can understand some concerns as they have families and more at stake.

          To my point:

          Just as there's a private key and public key for crypto, what if there was also a 3rd forum key? The blockchain could be open and public decentralized across the world - yet always encrypted and unreadable.

          Each user contributes via their private key.

          Each decentralized forum chooses what they decrypt and share and can turn it off for problematic content like advocating violence or child porn.

          Each forum can either get forum keys from other forums OR maybe the forums never give up their forum keys but all other forums must come to them to decrypt it for them - thus they'll always get the latest updated edits and such, while also controlling what they share or shutting problems down. These both have pros and cons - so maybe both might be employed. Perhaps even a 4th crypto key might be in order so that forums would have always public AND always controlled content. And maybe the forums could put the choice in the hands of the users to flip a switch on each post to make it permanently available and never reversible.

          Admittedly there are still problems with abuse. Besides loading up a blockchain/database with copious amounts of crap and/or child porn - if the keys became public and/or shared somehow then... Then I don't know what. The forum could claim they did what they could but at that point they still might be "publishing" that content on their blockchain. I don't know if they'd be responsible. So I might guess the user would need their private key to only work in combination with the forum key, OR, if the blockchain were distributed in sections via shards or torrents I suppose they could just stop sharing them and/or recompile update substitutes without the problematic content.

          Thinking out loud.

          Feel free to let me know if this sounds reasonable or like nonsense and/or if there are any questions, insights, or feedback.

          [–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

          I suggest starting a new thread about the ideal social forum design. I had said that I don't want to discuss this until a programmer comes forward to work on this, but maybe such a thread would inspire a programmer to come forward.

          I am a reactionary programmer and I just try to make things as simple as possible. This is the basis of my views.

          I see no need for a blockchain for forums. I would like to see an open source social forum that makes all data of all (non-private) forums publicly available. There is no need to encrypt anything. And nothing that needs to be hidden should be stored in the database at all. Things like email addresses and passwords can be stored as a crypto hash and then just matched when the user enters them.

          For a longer discussion, start a new thread.

          [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          [–]icebong[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

          This is the kind of thinking that we need. Keep thinking out loud, it's productive.

          I'm a front end developer, with huge interest in blockchain. At the start of the "pandemic", i created a blockchain based forum prototype that used IOTA as the DB because, transactions are free. So each post was just an address, and each comment on that post, was a transaction to that address.

          [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          This is a draft from Wikipedia (copied 2018-11-05) where this topic had been previously deleted (censored) between 2017-08-07 and 2018-04-23: https://infogalactic.com/info/IOTA_(technology) I know nothing more beyond that about IOTA. Looks like it's still denied an article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOTA(technology)

          Feel free to join InfoGalactic and improve that article, or share it in /s/InfoGalactic (ping me) and I can update it. Also, I've been meaning to expand WikiSpooks to include alternatives and solutions, including tech.

          You've planted a seed in my mind, though I'm still unclear if it's what you intended.

          I've only just imagined this, so I haven't considered many ramifications, pros, cons, etc.

          Imagine a forum where you pay your 2 cents to post something. Those who like or dislike it pay 2 cents. Comments are 2 cents. Obviously this excludes some and billionaires won't be limited, but there might be something to this, obviously different than what you've shared.