God of the Old Testament... by Vulptex in Christianity

[–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Modern morons shouldn't bother reading the Old Testament because they will never understand it.

Is being aggressive a requirement for getting women in the West? by trident765 in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Why would anyone want Western women?

My religion has been ruined by trident765 in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You could try a Coptic church. I haven't been to one, but they are basically Orthodox and they are supposed to be conservative.

Python page for Reactionary Software? by fschmidt in programming

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why do you need a package manager? Can't you just bundle everything you need together with your software?

Economic Doom by fschmidt in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No because there will be high inflation and real estate will protect from inflation. Modern economic policies are designed to take from the poor and give to the rich. The Fed prints money which it basically gives to the rich and this causes inflation which takes from the poor. So assets like real estate will just be sold by the poor and bought by the rich who will then rent it back to the poor.

There's literally NOTHING on television or the internet by yabbit in whatever

[–]fschmidt 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Then write some good code.

Do you think we should bring back segregation? by yabbit in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are a lot of ways to separate morons from non morons.

Like what?

Why not simply join one of the other separatist movements?

Like which ones?

I tried to order a couple things from China, looks like nothing is even being processed for 2 weeks by AmericanMuskrat in whatever

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

China is totally fucked up. I import things from China so I know all about the situation there. Half the factories aren't working and shipping is a nightmare. I will probably just shut this business down. I sincerely think China is finished as a major power because of its insane government.

What has happened to the internet? by ChillGuy in Introductions

[–]fschmidt 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

What has happened to the internet? What has happened to humanity? Humanity turned to shit thanks to modern culture.

Do you think we should bring back segregation? by yabbit in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Actually I do have a plan to segregate at least some non-morons from morons here. This site isn't complete but I will finish it soon.

Do you think we should bring back segregation? by yabbit in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I would like to segregate the morons from the non-morons.

Python programmers, help with multithreading? by fschmidt in programming

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Python programmers, help with multithreading? by fschmidt in programming

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What do you use instead of "await"?

Python programmers, help with multithreading? by fschmidt in programming

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I see, so Python threads are really coroutines, right? That still works okay in this case.

Does science impact the world in a positive way? by trident765 in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Life is evolutionary competition. Science gives one an advantage in this competition. And morality enables science. When morality fails then science fails as we see in the recent covid response. Moral societies should use science to their advantage.

Should the moronic masses be blamed? by trident765 in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This depends on your goals. If you are a little Hitler seeking power then Kaczynski is right. But if you care about yourself and about quality then Kaczynski is wrong. Kaczynski proved this himself by his misguided actions that tried and failed to spark a revolution. Instead he should have tried for a solution for the good minority that rejects the masses.

PHP: a fractal of bad design by zyxzevn in programming

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, PHP is horrible. That is why it became so popular.

What it takes to be a Good Programmer ? by developerpublish in programming

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This doesn't make sense. Should the links in a menu page like this be in a "nav"? If yes, how should it be rendered?

What it takes to be a Good Programmer ? by developerpublish in programming

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

HTML is part of programming, and this image is enough to illustrate revolting modern code. The "nav" tag is useless modern crap. And all those '<a href="#"...' is meaningless modern code, God only knows what those links do.

Would Windows be less like a phone if we had remained in the style of XP and just improved it in increments? by [deleted] in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Of course sticking with XP would have been better. XP wasn't bad at all. But that would be contrary to the forces of history. Everything is getting worse in modern culture, from music to architecture to politics and to everything else. So of course good OS's are replaced by bad OS's.

How come 'AI' in video/computer software stopped improving after 2008ish? What are your thoughts? by [deleted] in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Everything is getting worse because modern culture is decaying rapidly. For example, Java after Java 8 is not backward compatible, and this has nothing to do with the factors that you mentioned. It is simply the pure depravity of the programmers responsible for Java.

Why have forums *including this one and similar types* have morphed into news links and news bots now hindering all discussion? by [deleted] in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

/s/nonmorons isn't like this.

8 Javascript quiz that may confuse you by pitayan in programming

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Correct answer

Lemmy federation in action? by JasonCarswell in Cassy

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wouldn't build a house on a foundation of dog shit. Everything produced by modern culture is shit and should be rejected. There are good older protocols like NNTP but they address the conditions of that time, and things have changed. The internet has become much faster which makes possible radically simpler approaches. Anyway, I don't see any real demand for a good free speech platform (and protocol) so I will just forget it.

I finished coding my Mercurial hosting service this week which will serve the 5 to 10 good programmers left in the world who I care about far more than the 8 billion scum.

The more I think about humanity the less I understand by yabbit in whatever

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Once upon a time people weren't morons.

Lemmy federation in action? by JasonCarswell in Cassy

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Okay, I see federation in action. It works but it sucks. The Lemmy documentation explains the problem. Federation is off by default and will mostly be used with an Allowlist. This will result in minimum actual federation. The way federation really should work by federating the closure (in the math sense) of the Allowlist minus the BlockList. This would produce much bigger federation sets.

I also hate the idea of federation at the server level instead of the forum level. Server owners should have almost no power, only to remove forums. Otherwise server owner will naturally become fascists, as is human nature when people are given too much power. Forums (subs) should federate, and the server shouldn't matter.

Also it looks like federation is done by cloning data across servers (like NNTP does). This is a mess to maintain. No wonder ActivityPub is such a mess. Much simpler is just to query across servers as needed in real time using map-reduce and maybe a little caching.

In conclusion, Lemmy sucks but there is nothing better, so I guess it is the place to start.

Do you believe women should be able to have elective abortions? by AmericanMuskrat in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I support abortion. Kill unborn modern scum.

A Vision For The Future That We Can All Get Behind - Is It Community or Communism When We All Work Together by EndlessSunflowers in LateStageCapitalism

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'm ready for a "New World Disorder" otherwise known as "Idiocracy".

Why the fediverse is stuck. by fschmidt in programming

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I haven't looked at ActivityPub, so I can't judge it. But the basic argument is that ActivityPub is overcomplicated, which is what I expect of anything designed by modern scum. And overcomplicated standards just don't work. This is why almost all standards currently in use were designed before modern culture became fully depraved.

What is your opinion on oxygen? by IndianaJones in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Should be limited exclusively to my family.

Has your internet sort of "contracted" over the last two years or so? by MuhUkraine in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nice poem. What you got wrong is that while my engagement with humanity generally contracts, I put increasing effort into finding the tiny remnant of humanity that isn't moronic scum and working with them to build an alternative to mainstream humanity.

Do you believe in evolution? by yabbit in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. And evolution is removing incels from the gene pool.

Has your internet sort of "contracted" over the last two years or so? by MuhUkraine in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Naturally, as human intelligence contracts, my engagement with humanity also contracts.

Elon's not going to fix anything. He's a false messiah. by BravoVictor in politics

[–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Quote by Andrew Torba who made Gab, the worst website I have ever seen. Andrew Torba is pure modern scum, he will never do anything of value. At least Elon Musk has a chance. His Tesla cars actually do work, unlike Gab.

I'm proud to be a White male. by [deleted] in whatever

[–]fschmidt 7 insightful - 11 fun7 insightful - 10 fun8 insightful - 11 fun -  (0 children)

Modern scum take pride in their skin color instead of their accomplishments because they have no accomplishments.

What is the worst country in the world right now? by Vulptex in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So racist for no one to consider African countries. I think Liberia and Zimbabwe deserve consideration.

Are we having no choice but to accept learning to live under tyranny? by BlueFrost in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I think Elon Musk just averted tyranny. The main issue now is just degeneracy.

I AM HIGH IQ AF by yabbit in whatever

[–]fschmidt 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Then why don't you ever do anything intelligent?

The BIG list of 'woke' companies to boycott by fschmidt in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Of course. I found this site researching crowdfunding options for FreedIt. This list is only useful for services to avoid depending on for non-mainstream sites.

FreedIt, take 3 by fschmidt in FreedIt

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Suckless.org's list of software that rocks by LarrySwinger2 in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This page has a section on Git but nothing on Mercurial. In fact all their repos are on Git. So they suck.

What's your iq? by yabbit in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Then why don't you do something useful instead of just posting useless crap on the internet?

Is Biden really responsible for inflation? by trident765 in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The value of something is demand/supply. Powell increased the supply of dollars and Biden reduced the demand for dollars (through sanctions). So both are responsible.

FreedIt, take 3 by fschmidt in FreedIt

[–]fschmidt[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This guy is me. Presumably you are modern scum.

FreedIt, take 3 by fschmidt in FreedIt

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Okay, I will investigate Lemmy when I have time.

FreedIt, take 3 by fschmidt in FreedIt

[–]fschmidt[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

In spite of our different views on moderation, I consider the current SaidIt to be an acceptable platform which is why I post here. I don't see any point in setting up another SaidIt instance unless I can substantially improve on the current SaidIt, and that would require a programmer who can work with the code. I don't have the time to learn this code myself, and I can't find anyone else to do it, so I don't think a SaidIt clone makes sense for me.

FreedIt, take 3 by fschmidt in FreedIt

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I don't have experience with Lemmy. Have you used it enough to judge that it is a really usable? If yes, then I will look at it this weekend.

If Lemmy is usable and you manage to get an instance of Lemmy up and running, then I would be glad to transfer the FreedIt domain to you so you can use it. If you do crowdfunding then I will contribute once it is working.

I think SaidIt is a lost cause. It will never be fixed.

FreedIt, take 3 by fschmidt in FreedIt

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly

Have any of you niggas been to jail before? by yabbit in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was in the holding cell of an Alabama prison for a few hours. I was hitchhiking and the driver was drunk and we got picked up by highway patrol. Everyone should see a prison once. It's like in the movies, not appealing.

Is it possible for society to return back to common sense times (Pre 9/11) such as this? by [deleted] in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Think of it as cultural senility. Time to leave modern culture.

Is it possible for society to return back to common sense times (Pre 9/11) such as this? by [deleted] in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Not possible. Modern culture is now insane and terminally ill.

After 15 years reddit banned my account by dissidentrhetoric in whatever

[–]fschmidt 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

You should thank them for stopping you from wasting time in that cesspool, like I did.

FreedIt, take 3 by fschmidt in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, see this.

Why do alt news sites use Disqus a very VERY ultra left platform? by [deleted] in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Do you have any experience with programming? Hiring one good programmer is much cheaper than hiring 100 mediocre programmers. MBA scum don't understand this. I hired 2 technical people for my business, both Russian. Programmers from most of the world are just worthless scum.

Why do alt news sites use Disqus a very VERY ultra left platform? by [deleted] in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Is that really different? Anyone who understands software knows that outsourcing development to India or Philippines is a moronic idea. So this is just another approach of moronic modern scum.

How come the right isn't as good on tech as the left? by [deleted] in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why do alt news sites use Disqus a very VERY ultra left platform? by [deleted] in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think the issue is knowledge, the issue is stupidity and bad values. See my post Why Alt-Tech Sucks.

Why do alt news sites use Disqus a very VERY ultra left platform? by [deleted] in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

For once I agree with ShalomEveryone. The alt-right are moronic scum who are incapable of writing usable software.

I am hating this dystopia by BlueFrost in whatever

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Like Isaac Newton?

I am hating this dystopia by BlueFrost in whatever

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I want to find a group of people who want to recreate something as similar as possible

Colonia Vianna is already similar. The Arkian ethnicity is an attempt to create a lasting group that is similar. And Reactionary Software is trying to recreate good software. But I realize that people prefer complaining to solutions, so they won't join these groups.

Which are worse? Nintendo fanboys or CNN drones? by [deleted] in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All members of modern culture are slightly below cockroaches.

Do you support Putin's approaches in Ukraine? Yes or no? by [deleted] in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Yes

What are the biggest taboos in your society that you reject? by yabbit in AskSaidIt

[–]fschmidt 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The taboo against telling the truth.

  • modern scum: How are you?
  • me: Miserable as usual because humanity has become moronic scum.

Don't ask me questions if you can't handle an honest answer.

Discord is the new Reddit by fschmidt in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had.

I tried with FreedIt. I tried to get someone to work with the SaidIt code. But this code is just too complicated and they gave up. So the point is that one good programmer writing reactionary code is about as productive as 100 programmers working with modern code. And I have more chance to get 1 good programmer than 100 modern scum programmers.

If it's so obvious what makes good software, why aren't more folks doing it?

Because modern scum hate everything that is good.

So my focus now is to promote "reactionary software" which means good software that rejects horrible modern programming.

What does this even mean?

One can't explain sight to the blind. Any programmer with good values knows exactly what I mean. I think if you spent a year programming, you would know exactly what I mean too.

Be the change and lead by example. Get on those open-source boards and shout about what irks you until they change their ways. If you're correct they will follow your lead.

Luan is an example, and I will lead. I bought the domain "reactionary.software" and I started a Discord channel. Once I have a website with reasonable content, I will work to market it. But certainly not by crawling into the sewer with modern scum programmers.

And I will promote it where there are at least users from other cultures:

Why does this even matter?

I know from experience that this matters. My 2 technical employees are both Russian. I advertised for these jobs internationally. Everyone from the West was completely worthless. I also know a competent tech guy from my local mosque. Today's West is like Sodom and Gomorrah, all worthless scum deserving extermination.

Discord is the new Reddit by fschmidt in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

The fundamental problem isn't free speech, the fundamental problem is modern culture. Modern scum (members of modern culture) are incapable of writing good software. Of the alternatives that you listed that I am familiar with, all are crappy software. So my focus now is to promote "reactionary software" which means good software that rejects horrible modern programming. And I will promote it where there are at least users from other cultures: Muslims, Russians, whatever. We don't have that here on SaidIt. I also suggest that you check out /c/ParallelSociety.

Discord is the new Reddit by fschmidt in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Neither do I. But where else can one go to spread a message? SaidIt is too small, and I am banned from all other popular platforms.

Discord is the new Reddit by fschmidt in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't need a phone to register. Maybe it is getting worse. That's how things are. Don't like it? Write your own software.

Discord is the new Reddit by fschmidt in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Those other options don't have critical mass. Of course I also use Saidit which also doesn't really have free speech.

Discord is the new Reddit by fschmidt in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Gab is the worst website that I have seen, and Telegram is the worst app that I have used. Telegram is completely unusable.

Discord is the new Reddit by fschmidt in nonmorons

[–]fschmidt[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

With disboard

Reactionary Software? by fschmidt in programming

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Their browsing habits are tracked by the browser and sent to Google or Apple, so HTTPS doesn't keep this private.

Reactionary Software? by fschmidt in programming

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Never, of course. This is exactly the kind of pointless complexity that should be rejected. No one is going to bother maliciously modifying my site in-transit.

By the way, my site is implemented in Luan which allows adding HTTPS with 1 line of code, but I still won't do it.

Reactionary Software? by fschmidt in programming

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am not interested in new software. Why would I be interested in anything produced by modern scum? The SimpleX Chat that you linked to is a perfect example. It looks like typical modern crap. I would rather just use Skype.

Where can I find matrix chat groups, something like disboard? If no one can find my public chat, then it is useless.

Reactionary Software? by fschmidt in programming

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why does one need a fancy build system? I just use "make" or compile all.

Why did you link to JNDI? I replaced Log4j.

All modern libs are bloated, you can't blame Java for that. Java with my libs is lean enough.

Rust looks really horrible to me. No garbage collection, for example. Also see this.

Reactionary Software? by fschmidt in programming

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Practicality means using something that has critical mass (of users). Does anything on the list have this?