Trump says he’d disregard NATO treaty, urge Russian attacks on U.S. allies

submitted by Cancelthis from washingtonpost.com

all 69 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]GuyWhite 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (42 children)

The poor WaPo is going down the tubes. Not even Bezos could save it. The losses are costing him his fortune. And no wonder…the article doesn’t even mention that by refusing to spend enough on defense, those countries have been disregarding the NATO treaty for a while.

[–]LordoftheFlies 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Shit, I half believe that the lack of defense spending is why some of those countries want to be part of NATO; they can shuffle that money elsewhere, tell their people that they're downsizing their militaries in the name of peace, love, and soul for public approval, and still have a big shield--paid for by someone else--to hide behind in case someone tries to jump.

[–]Musky 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Half believe? That's the whole point of NATO for these countries.

The US is the only country with a significant military among any NATO nation.

Crazy how people relying on the US for their entire defense like to shit talk us.

[–]Jiminy 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

NATO = gladio.

USA with Permanent occupation after WWII. They never had to fund their military and are discouraged from doing so.

[–]Bitch-Im-a-cow 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (36 children)

So - those countries can be asked to pay or leave NATO. Trump arguing that he'd encourage Russia to attack a NATO country is additional evidence of Trump as a traitor to the US and its allies, not to mention his continued role as a simp for Putin. There's absolutely nothing redeemable about him. His comment is part of a U-turn in the decades of GOP cold war policy. WaPo merely reported the comment.

[–]Bridgeheadprod 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

Being a sovereign country means looking after your own people. Not the people of other countries. At the expense of your own.

[–]Bitch-Im-a-cow 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

Looking after your own country means surrounding yourself with allies. No country develops with without allies. Reversing decades of cold war policy would be stupid for many reasons.

[–]yellowsnow2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

Reversing decades of cold war policy would be stupid for many reasons.

Maybe NATO shouldn't have violated it's long held agreements about expanding. That is the whole reason for the Ukraine shit. That and the 2014 coup.

[–]Bitch-Im-a-cow 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

There's no evidence that NATO wanted Ukraine as a member. None.

It was also essential in 2014 for Ukrainians to expel the Russian puppets from its government. That level of corruption was destroying Ukraine.

[–]Jiminy 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Let's not play dumb

[–]Bitch-Im-a-cow 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

seems you're playing dumb

[–]Jiminy 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

They were definitely going to nato, and wanted to provoke putin for war profiteering reasons

[–]Bitch-Im-a-cow 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

The only ones claiming this are in Russia. There is no evidence of this in Ukraine. Russia lost power in the Ukraine government in 2014, and began invasions as a result of that. This is about power and control for Russians, nothing more.

[–]yellowsnow2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Ukraine was a country that was 50% of ethnic Kievan Rus (ethnic Russians) prior to 2014. Why forcefully remove the president you democratically elected? Why would the interim government that was installed have the first action to turn the country's military against it's own citizens by labeling them "Russian backed separatists". The country was 50% of Kievan Rus decent prior to 2014, how many now? How did that ethnic cleansing go?

[–]Bitch-Im-a-cow 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Seems you want to find an excuse for Putin's invasion of Ukraine, a sovereign country. There is NO excuse for this. None whatsoever.

Your statistics are also wrong, by a large margin. Here are the ethnicity stats for 2014:

Ukrainian 77.8%, Russian 17.3%, Belarusian 0.6%, Moldovan 0.5%, Crimean Tatar 0.5%, Bulgarian 0.4%, Hungarian 0.3%, Romanian 0.3%, Polish 0.3%, Jewish 0.2%, other 1.8%

[–]yellowsnow2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Seems you find an excuse for ethnic cleansing.

43-50% spoke Russian.. What is a Ukrainian? How many of them have a Kievan Rus ancestry? Kiev is the founding land of all Kievan Rus (Russian) peoples. Kievan Rus is where the Rus in Russia and Belarus comes from. Kiev was the capitol of the Russian empire off and on for almost 900 years.. So technically every Russian could be called a Ukrainian, although that is a new name that did not exist in earlier times. So again, what is a "Ukrainian" but an ethnic Russian?

“the proverbial kinds of falsehoods, ‘lies, damned lies, and statistics.’"-- quote statistically attributed to many different people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus'

[–]Bitch-Im-a-cow 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Seems you find an excuse for ethnic cleansing.

Did Ukraine invade Russia? (No.) Did Russia invade Ukraine and start a war that could be considered an ethnic cleansing program? (Yes.)

43-50% spoke Russian..

Many in the US speak Spanish (13.2%), but they are American, not Spanish or Mexican. Some of them are Mexican-American.

Many in Ukraine have spoken Russian for decades, before the fall of the USSR. But they're Ukrainian. Ukraine is sovereign. Russia has had no right to invade Ukraine. Ask normal people about this. You're believing lies, on the behalf of Putin. Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine

[–]Musky 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

He's trying to light a fire under their asses to build up their military forces. The US can't keep shouldering the entire burden. Every single NATO force has nothing more than a token military. They may be ramping up their spending, but that's funneling money to their defense contractors and not significantly increasing their military capabilities.

In a fight against Russia or China, Europe is toast.

[–]Bitch-Im-a-cow 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

NATO members have increased defense spending since WWII, exponentially, and would have no difficulty dealing with attacks from China, partially because of the logistics challenges for China (and they'd never attack the countries they sell $trillions of stuff to).

Trump has repeated a comment he made when he was president, attacking NATO because he's Putin's little bitch, but adding to it this time his honest agreement with Putin that NATO should be attacked by Russia. As a former president of a NATO country, and as presidential candidate, he's always been a traitor to the US and NATO.

[–]Musky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

They're increasing spending on their stupid overpriced artillery and other bullshit. That's part of the grift. Their actual military capabilities are miniscule. Look at Britain with what, it's 68k man army? That's not going to be a serious force in another European war.

[–]Bitch-Im-a-cow 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

But we're discussing NATO, not just one of its members. Add up the arms industry SIPRI Trend Indicator Values (TIVs) of France, Italy, Germany, Spain and Poland, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry

See also global military expenditures of the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, and the Netherlands here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures

Now if you add the US and other NATO members and parthers, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO#Kosovo_intervention

There's no comparison. And for a comparison of NATO vs. Russian militaries, see: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293174/nato-russia-military-comparison/

If we want to compare NATO military expenditure with BOTH China's and Russia's, we get: https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_NATO_vs_China_and_Russia

China's support of Russia's invasion has already resulted in a massive increase in military expenditures for NATO, and the addition of new members (Finland in April, and more to come) and partners .

[–]Rah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Moo

[–]Musky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

military expenditures != Capable military

Spending 100k a shell isn't helping anyone. That's gonna be why we lose.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Trump says he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies who pay too little

    It's often difficult to agree with Trump's statements, but what the fuck is the point of encouraging a fading nuclear power to attack the allies that will trigger going to war with that nuclear power?

    There's no fucking benefit.

    [–]binaryblob 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    He is saying that if the Europeans don't pay. Actively inviting Putin to invade, seems insane.

    Politically, this is suicide for the US interests in the long term, because perhaps someday the US would need help because of some unforeseen natural disaster.

    If Trump really wanted a good defense for Europe, it would share technology with the Europeans, which he isn't doing.

    Still Trump shouldn't even get placed on the ballot and he should be behind bars for treason. Similarly, whoever underfunded EU armies should face a worse punishment, but unfortunately there is no capital punishment for being stupid.

    [–]Questionable 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    He was referring to a policy he already held while in office. If you don't pay your NATO dues, you don't get NATO protection. Which got countries to pay their NATO dues while he was in office.

    You got a problem with paying your fair share or something? What are you a Democrat?

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/8rHUfpYjV2nC/

    [–]binaryblob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I am well aware of the history. I have mentioned on saidit before that Europe is fucking insane for depending on the US for its defense.

    You got a problem with paying your fair share or something?

    I think a good defense has almost no relation to a specific amount of money. I think buying weapons from another country is insane and would only be done by people that don't know the first thing about sovereignty. However, until the EU has a meaningful defensive in-house capability, not meeting the 2% line was rather stupid.

    What are you a Democrat?

    I am not a US citizen.

    [–]SoCo 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    So far, no one has posted the video or transcript, that I can see (this one don't work for me), just cherry picked out of context quotes. Then they deceptively slide into past quote and misrepresented positions. I'm not sure I believe any of it, not that it is the biggest deal. Not disbanding NATO was a long term declaration of war.

    [–]Questionable 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    https://saidit.net/s/politics/comments/c9pz/trump_says_hed_disregard_nato_treaty_urge_russian/15ent

    [–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

    He must be looking for funding for his presidential campaign, and is right out of supporters inside the country.

    [–]Questionable 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

    It's how he funded NATO.

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/8rHUfpYjV2nC/

    But you already knew that, and are just making up talking points out of thin air.

    Speaking of which, are you claiming that he's still in control of NATO? As it's the only way your comment makes any sense.

    [–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

    Speaking of which, are you claiming that he's still in control of NATO? As it's the only way your comment makes any sense.

    No I'm not claiming that.

    I'm claiming he takes money from our enemies for them to dictate his policy positions.

    [–]Questionable 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

    Yes. That is the Biden Crime Family policy. But, the topic is Trump.

    [–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    It's possible that someone who hasn't been following the investigations might believe that.

    But you're just lying aren't you.

    [–]Questionable 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

    the investigations

    You mean, these ones?

    https://oversight.house.gov/landing/biden-family-investigation/

    [–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    Yep. Not a single charge filed. Not a single scrap of evidence sufficient for court. A bunch of poorly sourced allegations continually referred to as if they're talking points. Mostly from one unnamed human source that everyone knows was Rudy Giuliani. https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2023/10/02/gop-witnesses-at-biden-impeachment-hearing-see-insufficient-evidence-of-wrongdoing-so-far/

    Witnesses turned out to be crooks and liars. https://newrepublic.com/article/178960/republican-witness-hunter-biden-impeachment-tony-bobulinski-past

    Counter to DOJ policy on unproven allegations.

    As we both know, don't we.

    [–]Questionable 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

    Wow. That whole one witness you say? While all of D.C is corrupt, laundering money through Ukraine, and running a front for China, you found one guy that's shady. Well you got me there.

    As we both know, don't we?

    [–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    Wow. That whole one witness you say?

    For instance. None of the others panned out either, as you will remember.

    While all of D.C is corrupt,

    Citation needed.

    laundering money through Ukraine

    Citation needed.

    and running a front for China,

    Citation needed.

    you found one guy that's shady.

    One example.

    [–]Questionable 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    You do not live in the real world.

    [–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It's possible that someone who hasn't been following the investigations might believe that.

    But you're just lying aren't you.

    You know Trump is in front of the criminal courts, and he's trying to delay the cases, not fight them, because his corrupt scotus will allow him to pardon himself if he wins the presidency.

    And you know that the charges against Biden are now focused on $4000 Biden payed back to his dad from a loan for a truck:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/12/04/comer-mischaracterizes-hunter-biden-car-payment-reimbursement-his-dad/

    There's literally nothing against Biden, and serious charges, with sufficient evidence that they're being brought against Trump.

    But you don't care about the truth do you?

    You'll repeat lies if it supports the criminals who have as much hatred for asylees and women as you do, and you're prepared to be a deceiver to hide your inability to love your neighbour amongst others who similarly fail to be decent or even average human beings.

    [–]WoodyWoodPecker 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    He doesn't have to raise money, he's a billionaire.

    [–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Really? He's spending a lot of space raising money for someone who doesn't have to raise money.

    When I hit his website, the first thing I get is a popup asking me to contribute before I can go and look at anything on his webstie.

    When you do get to his website, there's a few menus, but several colored buttons labelled "Contribute", "Volunteer", "Shop" and "Support".

    Contribute, Shop and Support take you to a donations or merch page. "Volunteer" takes you to a form where you give your contact detials, and there's a bit "Donate" button, the width of the whole page just below it.

    Is this the website of someone who doesn't need money? It seems to be focused on extracting money primarily, and other things secondarily.

    On top of that he use the the pre-checked "Make this a weekly recurring donation until 11/3" that did not help him win votes from the pensioners and veterans that he duped out of hundreds of thousands that way. Does that sound like someone who doesn't need to raise money?

    He stiffs contractors, cities and cops everywhere he holds a rally. Does that sound like someone with more than enough money?

    [–]GuyWhite 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Biden doesn’t need to raise money. He has those millions of dollars of graft from Ukraine, China, and Russia.

    [–]Questionable 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Well, to be fair. He's not really running, and he would have to devise a means to launder the money to his campaign.

    [–]HugodeCrevellier 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    European foreign policy, which includes defence, must not be dependent on the likes of Trump, Biden and/or the assorted sociopaths manipulating them.

    [–]Jiminy 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Good. Russia is our ally. Europe is woke