Russia raises nuclear threats if Finland/Sweden join NATO.

submitted by radicalcentristNational Centrism from self.debatealtright

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[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (53 children)

They are not.

Poland disagrees, and notice how Russia can't touch them?

It's unfortunate, but only the threat of a NATO umbrella can keep the Russians away.

[–]NeoRail 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (47 children)

Nothing you said has any bearing on the fact that none of the European states are independent.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (46 children)

What language do they speak in Poland? Who can cross their borders or run for their President?

There's obviously a level of independence or you're just playing stupid.

[–]NeoRail 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

The funny part is that if this is really your definition of independence, then even the US it not independent because they don't control their borders, there is no official language and even the child of illegal immigrants can run for president.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The funny part is that if this is really your definition of independence, the US it not independent because they don't control their borders,

Which is correct. U.S sovereignty hasn't been protected in years. Trump couldn't even get his wall built, so the future of the country is up in the air.

there is no official language and even the child of illegal immigrants can run for president.

Again, I'm less likely to argue this because these are huge problems to being an independent nation and at some point, they're going to collapse.

But going back to Poland, they have a unique identity and they resist another foreign power (i.e Russia) from swallowing them up.

[–]NeoRail 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

But going back to Poland, they have a unique identity and they resist another foreign power (i.e Russia) from swallowing them up.

That doesn't contradict my first statement at all.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well then you be you. I think Poland is an independent country, and joining a military umbrella that stops them from being invaded by Russia is both integral and a sign they don't want to be replaced by somebody else.

Finland and Sweden are making the same moves because they too see themselves as being independent from Russia and it's the only way to protect that.

[–]Nombre27 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

You're conflating having a culture with being independent. Very few independent ("I can do what I want when I want") states exist.

I don't think your spectrumizing of independence makes much sense here. A state is either independent or it is not. Not sure how you conflated being able to speak a language with being independent. Your obfuscation of this seems quite intentional. Do better.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

He's a very low quality shill. He has never put forth any sophisticated argument for any of his shilling causes. Though there are that exist.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

You're conflating having a culture with being independent.

They're synonymous.

Imagine Israel without being a Jewish state, or Japan without no Japanese culture? They would be dead instantly.

If Polish people can speak their own language or defend their borders from foreigners, that's enough independence.

[–]NeoRail 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

In just two sentences, you swap your requirements for what constitutes an independent state from a state that upholds a specific culture, to a state that upholds its own borders and has an official language. By the former criterion, which you set for Israel and Japan, there really are not independent states in Europe, except perhaps for Hungary, and maybe Russia.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Culture includes language and borders. Specifically, one that the Native people approve of and are willing to protect from outsiders.

I don't see Israel or Japan contradicting these examples. Both nations absolutely defend their culture and if they disappear, so do they.

[–]NeoRail 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

Culture includes language and borders. Specifically, one that the Native people approve of and are willing to protect from outsiders.

I don't see Israel or Japan contradicting these examples. Both nations absolutely defend their culture and if they disappear, so do they.

Yes, the problem is the exact opposite, specifically that you are not also applying these requirements the other way around. Are you playing stupid?

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Why do you waste time with this troll?

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I am curious to see if he is at all capable of acknowledging his own incoherence. I have repeatedly pointed out his incoherence to him, and also explained how and why his arguments are incoherent. Every time, his response has been to completely ignore what I have said and to make new, equally incoherent arguments, apparently without feeling any need to address his previous mistakes, avoid future mistakes, or at least attempt to maintain some sort of continuity from one post to the next. It is a bit hard to believe that he is a troll because of how persistent he is, and I don't think he is a bot either, so he must be serious. At the same time, I have also never met a person this stupid or mentally disorganised before, so I wanted to test how deep stupidity can go - how much refutation can he just shrug off, etc. The answer seems to be all of it.

I don't think I will see anything new or interesting from him, so I plan to ignore him from now on, but some of his statements are so transparently ridiculous that it's hard to resist pointing it out.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

specifically that you are not also applying these requirements the other way around.

Invading another country is to undermine another culture and their integrity.

That's what Russia is doing to Ukraine right now. Resisting them IS protecting their own independence.

Once again, Finland, Poland, Sweden don't want to be controlled by Russia. They continue to practice their own separate laws, languages and beliefs that form separate cultures. They are just as willing to defend their uniqueness via military alliance and force.

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What are you talking about? What does that have to do with anything I said? My point is that Poland, Finland, Sweden, and almost every other European state indisputably do not at all care about the native culture and do nothing to uphold it - therefore, by your own definition, those would not be "independent" states. What's so hard to understand about this? Why can't you just be coherent for once? The sheer disregard you show for what other people say almost makes me think that you are a bot sometimes.

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You're conflating having a culture with being independent.

They're synonymous.

Imagine Israel without being a Jewish state, or Japan without no Japanese culture? They would be dead instantly.

If Polish people can speak their own language or defend their borders from foreigners, that's enough independence.

No they aren't. That's not the same as independence and I suggest you look up the definition of the word in the context that it is being used, because you (or is it me?) clearly have a very different idea of what independence implies.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Who else but the people living inside those countries get to dictate the culture that is there? If another country or group of people came in, forced them to stop practicing those things, I would not consider them independent anymore.

[–]Nombre27 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Just look at the spread of LGBT issues around Europe. Not sure what to say if you think the socio-cultural homogenization of Europe is organic.

Your stubbornness on this makes think you're being disingenuous. Don't really care what else you have to say on this as you're demonstrably wrong.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just look at the spread of LGBT issues around Europe.

Germany had gay shit in the 1920s, but they elected their own Nazi Party to deal with it.

The same is true of any country today. We don't need Russia barging in like the world police, let other nations handle it themselves.

Especially when all their wars are getting thousands of people killed.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're not making any sense. Goodbye.

[–]Richard_Parker 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

They technically still speak German in Germany, but there is way too much English language advertising, as German is borrowing hundreds if not thousandz of English words. I doubt Poland is that much better.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

There's English in China too. But that's clearly because it makes it easier to do business on an international stage.

Try running for German or Chinese politics using only English, and I can't imagine getting far, let alone, be elected.

[–]Richard_Parker 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (18 children)

I can explain it, but cannot comprehend it for you.. Maybe Rammstein's Amerika?

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I know that song. It's lampooning American culture for being like imperialism and influencing nations worldwide.

However, many things are influential or have a wide reach. Like Japanese pop culture. Or even French.

[–]Richard_Parker 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

You just are not getting it. At the current trajectory, neither the Germans people, culture, not language will exist. It is a slow acting poison.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

It has nothing to do with the English language, but their birth rates and policies on immigration.

Which is not to say, I'm asking them to do nothing. No, they clearly need to preserve a future for Germans.

The same is true with China. Unless you're a diplomat or work in business, English doesn't control them.

[–]Richard_Parker 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

No- it is all of it. Americanization, infiltration of American popular culture and languages all of it.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

but only the threat of a NATO umbrella can keep the Russians away.

They submit to Zionist America to ward off Russia. Good choice. It certainly didn't backfire for South Africa.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Zionist America sucks, I agree. But I also hate seeing Europeans getting slaughtered in pointless wars that Russia is starting.

If joining NATO ends up saving lives and protects European nation security, so be it.

[–]HPFL 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, Russia is not starting these wars. It is just winning them. Europe is history. It is a boil on the backside of the rest of the world and Russia is lancing it. Russia will take over Ukraine and it will take back all of the former Soviet bloc “states” illegally occupied by European white supremacist terrorist imperialism. The rest of the world is sick and tired of being pushed around by European terrorist imperialist white supremacists constantly stealing natural resources and land while raping and killing its indigenous peoples.

And the more you attack Israel, the more you justify Israel retaliating. The Jews will own the entire Middle East by the end of the century. The Jews have earned the right to take over the world because we are gods chosen people and we have earned the right to use fourth in the name of God to see that his word becomes law over all the world. You will obey the Jewish God’s law and you will obey the State of Israel no matter what. Israel is also in Asia which makes it justified in using force to combat white supremacist imperialist terrorism. There will be no stopping Asian retaliation against European imperialism.

[–]HPFL 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Anti-Zionism is antisemitism is racism. There are no non-racist non-homophobic criticisms of Israel. Attacking Israel is attacking the Jews. Attacking the Jews is attacking God. Hate speech against Israel is racism against God.

[–]HPFL 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Poland is in Europe. Russia is not. That makes Poland the aggressor because all Europe is the aggressor and will be as long as the terrorist NATO exists.