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[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

It sort of goes back to that Hitler quote -- which I think Schmitt or Heidegger may have said first -- that Bolshevism was the bastard child of Christianity which I sort of agree with but ultimately think is misleading. There's so many long discussions about this topic on the board as well if you go back. I'll try and find some specific threads. I'd say that if you look around the world irreligiosity and especially the decline of Christianity coincides with the rise of liberalism to which the Christian critics respond that liberalism is merely an extended memeotype of Christianity.

I'd typify the default position of nearly all liberal effort and discourse as the normalization of the other and some point to certain biblical passages that suggest embracing that type of attitude but looking at history I see it as a very recent Christian phenomenon that seems to coincide with the rise of liberalism.

Also I would argue that there is an innate hostility most liberals posses towards Christianity which is because of a proper recognition of just how fundamentally opposed to their worldview Christianity really is but then again people could counter and say that it's merely two sets of high priests jostling for power and reflects that and not a fundamental conflict of ideals.

I'd say Protestantism was definitely a precursor to the rise of liberalism though. Whatever one may think of the current Pope and his idiotic liberal musings at its core the Catholic church is profoundly illiberal. Protestantism gave rise to hyper-individualism and the idea that any mad freak could just interpret and practice the faith in any kooky way they chose. I see nothing fundamentally liberal about the way most Orthodox Christians practice their faith either and that's something the 'Christianity is cucked' people don't seem eager to explain.

In a way I see where the people who denounce Christianity are coming from and thing they have some valid points -- especially when looking at contemporary Christianity -- but reject the idea that there was some telos contained within Christianity that inevitably was going to lead to what we see today.

Also the Jewish role in the rise of liberalism should be considered but that's another massive topic. There's no more profoundly anti-Christian tribe on the face of the Earth so how their role would fit into the idea that Christianity gave birth to liberalism seems to demand an explanation -- funnily enough you see so many Old Testament names springing up during the Reformation because Prots wanted to LARP as Jews.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]Ponderer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Semi-related, everyone here should check out the /s/altreligion sub. It's an attempt to synthesize a new belief system from first principles, and debates like this would be welcome there.

    [–]VulptexVoluntaryist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Whatever one may think of the current Pope and his idiotic liberal musings at its core the Catholic church is profoundly illiberal. Protestantism gave rise to hyper-individualism and the idea that any mad freak could just interpret and practice the faith in any kooky way they chose. I see nothing fundamentally liberal about the way most Orthodox Christians practice their faith either and that's something the 'Christianity is cucked' people don't seem eager to explain.

    Jesus explicitly warned against following anyone else in his place. It leads to Pharisaism and tyranny.

    [–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    I see nothing fundamentally liberal about the way most Orthodox Christians practice their faith either and that's something the 'Christianity is cucked' people don't seem eager to explain.

    Criticising the Orthodox Church specifically for being liberal would be nonsensical. If anything, modern Orthodoxy has developed in opposition to liberalism. I think a reasonable critique of Orthodoxy would revolve around the typical Christian elements of the religion, such as pacifism for example, rather than any hypothetical relationship with liberalism.

    [–]LetssavethefirsworldReturn to Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Orthodox are basically Republicans (Francoise Spain Republicans not Ted Cruz). They literally have votes to determine doctrine. Profoundly liberal.

    The Catholic Church is a Chad Monarchy

    [–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    You are trying to draw parallels where there are none. The Orthodox Church is decentralised, but it is not liberal. In fact, this very decentralisation is one of the things which makes liberalisation so difficult, if not completely impossible - there could never be anything like an Orthodox Vatican II.

    [–]LetssavethefirsworldReturn to Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Voting is liberal

    [–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Neither voting, nor election, nor selection are necessarily liberal or democratic. Moreover I am not sure how your position is coherent at all, since Popes are also elected.

    [–]IslamofascistDeath to America, Death to Israel, Death to The Ukraine 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    It sort of goes back to that Hitler quote -- which I think Schmitt or Heidegger may have said first -- that Bolshevism was the bastard child of Christianity which I sort of agree with but ultimately think is misleading.

    The quote is "Christian theology is the grandmother of Bolshevism." And it was said by Oswald Spengler.

    Also I would argue that there is an innate hostility most liberals posses towards Christianity which is because of a proper recognition of just how fundamentally opposed to their worldview Christianity really is but then again people could counter and say that it's merely two sets of high priests jostling for power and reflects that and not a fundamental conflict of ideals.

    Liberals hate competing religions in general. The reason why Western liberals hate Christianity so much is because Christianity was the dominant religion of the West and thus forms the backdrop of Western society. Similarly, liberals from the Middle East and North Africa hate Islam because Islam forms the backdrop of MENA societies, and liberals from India hate Classical Hinduism because Hinduism forms the backdrop of Indian society.

    I'd say Protestantism was definitely a precursor to the rise of liberalism though. Whatever one may think of the current Pope and his idiotic liberal musings at its core the Catholic church is profoundly illiberal. Protestantism gave rise to hyper-individualism and the idea that any mad freak could just interpret and practice the faith in any kooky way they chose. I see nothing fundamentally liberal about the way most Orthodox Christians practice their faith either and that's something the 'Christianity is cucked' people don't seem eager to explain.

    It is astonishing that on this forum, which is based on the "Alt-Right" ideology, you give so much credence to theology and religious ideologies over racial biology. Doesn't the Alt-Right consider culture to be downstream from biology? If you consider Protestantism to be "definitely the precursor to the rise of liberalism", then from where does Protestantism emerge? Why did Protestantism specifically take hold in Northern Europe and not in Southern Europe or the Mediterranean? How come countries like Ethiopia and Armenia, which were Christian for much longer than any place in Northern Europe, never saw a movement like Protestantism even though they also had a Church similar to the Church of Rome?

    Don't pussyfoot around the answer. Protestantism - and therefore liberalism - is a specific product of the Germanic race. An Ethiopian Christian could have never produced an ideology like Protestantism. The fact that Jews were involved in Liberalism and Marxism is a secondary effect. Jews were around for many centuries, and they were irrelevant for most of that time. Jews became prominent only thanks to the ascendancy of the Germanic West. In other words, the rise of Jewish power is concomitant with the rise of the West. Thus, what will it take to destroy Jewish power?

    There's the final red pill for you.

    [–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I, for myself, don't buy in the pure biological arguments. They are irrilevants and inconsistents from an ethnic perspective. They are also prominent among nordicists, which i dont' like. Probably in the forum there's a variety of people with different degrees of opinions, only a small portion of them beeing "true" american alt-righters. It's a debate forum after all.

    [–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Spengler said it. Thank you. I always forget that.

    [–]LetssavethefirsworldReturn to Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    The answer to your question is 3 fold.

    1. Ethiopia was Protestant for hundreds of years, but they (rejoined the Church)[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_Catholic_Church#]. Know your history my friend

    2. History is sometimes driven by great people. Germany produced Martin Luther. A 'Great man' who convinced much of Germany to reject Catholicism. His words then swept through Europe and we're amplified by different groups in Europe. King Henry became Protestant just to divorce his wife. Unsurprisingly, the closer to Rome you are the less likely you are to reject the one true Church.

    3. Protestantism largely rises from Renaissance era thinking. Around this time, Europe was no longer in a crisis of faith from Islam conquest. They turned their eyes towards hyper rationalism. This caused a lot of people to question the way the Church was run and many people (Martin Luther) had great criticisms of the Church. Many became Protestants

    [–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Bolshevism was the bastard child of Christianity

    I think he based that on Nietzsche.

    [–]DragonerneJesus is white 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    funnily enough you see so many Old Testament names springing up during the Reformation because Prots wanted to LARP as Jews.

    very interested in this. Could you explain or link to info about this?

    [–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    E. Michael Jones has written a lot about that topic, dragon. There's an entire chapter in The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit about it and I'm sure if you go over to culture wars you can find his writings on the topic.

    [–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It's a well know topic actually. Epecially the calvinists considered themselves, in a sort of way, to be the new "Jews". The whole idea of building a "city on the Hill" (Massachusetts) or a "community of saints" (Geneva) was linked to a strict interpretation of the predestination that resemble the jew's argument about the chosen people. That eventually (very rapidly) evolved in the Covenant Theology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_theology#:~:text=Covenant%20theology%20(also%20known%20as,organizing%20principle%20for%20Christian%20theology. which obviusly resemble the jew's attitude toward the "pact between God and the Chosen People" based on the Laws. Note that this doesn't mean that every calvinist recognized itself as a "New Jew"; but it was a common theme and it's been analized in several works.