Immigrants of today are NOT like our ancestors

submitted by scormac1752 from self.debatealtright

https://imgur.com/gallery/qaN54r9

I’m getting so tired of hearing that cringe take that we’re all immigrants. (The implication being that we’re just like them.)

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[–]Nombre27 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Reddit-brained comment

For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Double digit IQ to not see the difference between being a settler and pioneer and moving to an established modern country with a generous welfare state. People that continue to think like this deserve your contempt.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

Immigrants of the past: replaced the people of the land.

Immigrants of today: replaces the people of the land.

I see some similarity.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

This is interesting food for thought.

I would argue that "developed land" and "civilization" are subjective and certainly not entirely "civil".

Coming to a "post-industrial nation" is moving into a debt-slave state. You can't just go out into the forest, stake some land, and start building. This new world is not only a forest of endless red tape, ownership legalese, building codes, etc etc etc, the same bureaucracy applies new business and all other facets of life - thus, especially without financial leverage, your fundamental options are reduced to being a debt slave, being on welfare, or trying to thrive outside of what is "legal".

This is not just comparing apples and oranges - it's apples and orangutan cages.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I agree, it is incredibly different compared to each other. I simply saw some similarities and thought someone might like the little joke.

I'd take the apples over the orangutan cages, mate.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[deleted]

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    He's not anti-white, he's just a dumb anti-social sperg that doesn't understand how a forum works. He randomly replies to comments with totally off topic points he invented himself to argue with then acts hostile to the person he responded to despite them not saying literally anything in his comments. People understandably treat him like a sperg because he is one.

    But yeah native Americans have a history with fascist movements too, beyond just this one guy being venerated by a fascist group. The American Indian Federation for example was friendly with the German American Bund and supported by William Dudley Pelley and whatnot. Hitler admired the Amerindians too.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    "he's just a dumb anti-social sperg that doesn't understand how a forum works."

    No, I understand, they are simply not worthwhile ways of communicating. See, you guys horribly misunderstood me because you are stuck in forum-mode, you guys spend way too much time online. I highly doubt any of you are salt-of-the-Earth kind of fellas. I am anti-social, I grew up on a farm living life how humans are meant to live, in touch with nature and family, not debased society. If you are well-acclimated to our insane societies, then there is something seriously wrong with you. So, coming to these forums is kind of a shock, like I'm surprised at how many intelligent psychopaths there are in the world.

    [–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    The big difference is if the Indians had had the means to expel us they would have. They were willing but not able, whereas we are able but not willing.

    I blame Jewish/corporate propaganda and their targets females and feminized males.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Lmao, half of the people I know are not willing, half of those who are, are unable.

    [–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    I mean the government.

    [–]raven9 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (44 children)

    No the they are not like our ancestors. They don't come here and commit genocide on the indigenous people and then force slaves to do all the work.

    [–]DragonerneJesus is white 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

    Reality is not netflix

    [–]scormac1752[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Based comment and based user flair.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

    Were the wars against the natives not real? Were the land seizures in europe which forced migrants west not real? Some of the early settlers weren't shite, but the colonies (companies) were horrible.

    [–]DragonerneJesus is white 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

    "whites genocided every native and then made them into slaves to build everything"
    "fake news"
    "so whites didnt settle the US?"

    lol

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

    Great debate tactic here, you really answered my questions and brought forth a good conversation. /s

    This joke right here. You should've answered my questions seriously. Then, I respond and say I don't get your comment, and you respond with:

    "Please provide evidence that whites did this:

    They don't come here and commit genocide on the indigenous people and then force slaves to do all the work.

    No motte and bailey. No reframing."

    Dude, you started this. Own up to it. You didn't answer my questions, made a joke.

    That is such a respectable debate tactic, oh yeah. /s

    [–]DragonerneJesus is white 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    If you will disavow raven9s statements and say that they are completely and utterly fake, and that your questions totally weren't trying to defend his comment, but were actually totally unrelated and not connected to my comment saying that his netflix understanding of reality was faulty, then I will answer your questions, but on the high chance that your questions were actually related to the commentchain that you replied to, then I'll refuse to answer your questions and wait for you to provide evidence for this netflix-reality.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    No, you argue like a Jewish college professor, I have no interest in discussing things with you. You had your chance. Don't act so high and mighty when you are the shit-stirrer. I asked questions, you made jokes. Tell me, which is more useful in a "debate" sub?

    I like this sub and will continue to frequent it because you guys are insightful. I can't write you off just because you are egotistical forum-dwellers.

    [–]DragonerneJesus is white 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    My "joke" was a refutation to what I correctly classified as the goal of your comment. You're just mad at me for not allowing you to reframe the debate and not accepting your premise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy

    you argue like a Jewish college professor

    Thanks for the compliment. I've been practicing and it seems to have been paying off!

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    You practice at being a shmuck? It all makes sense now, you've been indoctrinated.

    I asked a question, you responded with a joke. I understand the motte and bailey fallacy, and I don't care if you think that was what I was doing. If you answered, I would've thanked you for your answer, or responded in a noncommittal manner. However, you made a joke, and you think that was refutation. You grasp at straws, and live on a high horse, sir. You may be intelligent, but I don't think this intelligence has done anything for you but embitter your heart and sully your mind.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    I don't really get what this comment is, like some sort of cartoonish joke about my views? You can do better.

    [–]DragonerneJesus is white 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    Please provide evidence that whites did this:

    They don't come here and commit genocide on the indigenous people and then force slaves to do all the work.

    No motte and bailey. No reframing.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    I have no interest in providing evidence to you. I know this is a debate website and that is how you change stubborn peoples minds. However, if you make a joke about my views, you get my big toe, and nothing more. You didn't answer my questions, you made a joke, then expect me to take your whole college-level debate tactics seriously, ha! I have no interest spending any time explaining simple American history to a European, sorry. These wars were well-documented, my forefathers fought in many of them. Don't be a right-wing lemon, they are just as bad as the left-wing ones.

    [–]DragonerneJesus is white 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    I've heard these antiwhite narratives for several years now and there is one thing in common with all of them: lack of evidence. So yes, forgive me for pointing out that you are not going to provide evidence, only for you to reply that you are not going to provide any evidence. Imagine my shock.

    I responded to an antiwhite comment, you then made the classic leftist motte-and-bailey. You're not original. I've literally seen this thousands of times on reddit and I will hold you to it and not allow you to reframe the position.

    Please provide evidence that whites did this:

    They don't come here and commit genocide on the indigenous people and then force slaves to do all the work.

    Of course you can't do that and you know that, which is why you did the motte-and-bailey to defend the antiwhite narrative. And now you play the victim because I called you out for doing that.
    So yes, reality is not netflix. If you think it is, then it is on you to prove the above antiwhite narrative- which you can't and which is why you tried to reframe the debate to justify the antiwhite narrative, but I am not allowing you to reframe the debate.
    Provide the evidence for this antiwhite netflix narrative or go away in defeat.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    You are quoting someone else, dude. I literally asked you questions, and you made a joke. Fuck you. I rarely taste defeat, but if I did, I would tell you, because I am like that. If you could be objective and paid attention to who you are quoting and what I believe, then you'd respond differently. Please, continue to defend yourself from imaginary attacks.

    [–]DragonerneJesus is white 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Me: "reality is not netflix"
    To which you responded:

    Were the wars against the natives not real? Were the land seizures in europe which forced migrants west not real? Some of the early settlers weren't shite, but the colonies (companies) were horrible.

    Implying that reality actually is netflix.

    Do you agree with me that his antiwhite netflix narrative is absolutely fake and gay?

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

    you gotta stop watching television libtard

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

    What do you think happened in America?

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

    Neither a conscious committed genocide nor slaves doing anything close to a sizable minority share of the work let alone all of it.

    The comment is beyond hyperbole, the only time genocide towards the natives became conscious was when the capitalists took over and wanted to 'Kill the Indian, save the Man' to erase barriers to capitalist exploitation. Even then it was a cultural genocide but it wasn't pro-white as this cultural genocide was also enacted on the white population.

    [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (21 children)

    I never said anything about the genocide being pro-white. You do know that opposing the destruction of the native tribes isn't something only liberals do, right? If you support ethno-nationalism, then support the destruction of the native tribes and realms, well... then I'd wonder how cultic your form of ethno-nationalism is.

    Conservatives have a weird issue with defending or explaining away what happened in the US. You can't deny it happened, but you try to explain it away so that blame cannot come anywhere near your identity. What happened to the natives is happening right now in Europe, its being done in a different way, but it is essentially the same tactic being played over again. debatealtright likes to hear about the cultural genocide going on in Europe, but never wants to accept that it happened three hundred years ago. America is the New Rome. It was built by slaves, refugees, and patsies. Good people fled here to escape the ethnic and religious cleansing in Europe, and did good things in spite of the system in place in America. They were never well-liked by the powers in this country.

    I know a lot about the tribes. They were varied people groups, and they weren't always directly related by genetics. Some of them were brutal to each other and to the colonists. Others tried to accept their new neighbors, but couldn't ignore the constant fence-post moving tactics. Israel is doing it today with Palestine!

    You guys don't seem to recognize how much of the cult you accept.

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

    Nothing you said here is even close to being relevant to the 2 points being discussed. 1) That whites COMMITTED a genocide, and 2) that (black) slaves did ALL the labour to build America.

    Both of these claims are ridiculous, that is what I responded to. This schizophrenic phantom you're having a fight with here has nothing to do with me, I'd suggest taking your meds.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

    Oh my, my meds? I haven't taken them in years.

    1) whites were used (like hunting dogs) to commit the genocide. This is the truth. We can argue about who came up with the idea, but my white ancestors were the footsoldiers. I was taught to be proud of this fact by my schools and church. 2) wage slaves built it, black slaves worked it for a while.

    Grasp away, you'll find only straws.

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

    whites were used (like hunting dogs) to commit the genocide. This is the truth.

    This isn't even the libtard academia position lol, even they say that most of the Amerindians dying was because of diseases Europeans brought and shit. You're like the only person in the world who contends that it was a matter of policy that whites were sent out in deathsquads to kill them, it's absurd.

    But if this is true as you say prove it, I don't particularly care if it happened either way. I'm just led to believe it didn't happen so far, feel free to show us evidence of this intentional genocide.

    [–]DragonerneJesus is white 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    He has no evidence. Notice how he is not mentioning that half the europeans coming to the US were brought over as slaves. It doesn't fit his antiwhite narrative, I assume

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    I have no links, and that is all. I will not offer any links to you. You can do your own due diligence on this subject if you'd like.

    I made it clear that the refugees leaving Europe were wage-slaves, and that they were the footsoldiers. My white forefathers were used like hunting dogs. You seem to ignore half of what I say. You'll feel better pretending that I am a POC libtard, not a white traditionalist.

    I respond to your comments, you make jokes and ignore my words. You can do better.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

    I never said: it was a matter of policy that whites were sent out in deathsquads to kill them.

    You are a waste of time. You should really read a lot of books, not internet pages. There is plenty of evidence on the wars against the natives. I'm not sad, nor upset. You are simply a waste of time. If you had anything of worth to say about the building of America, it would be noted by me and accepted. Sadly, most people buy into Jewish propaganda about the tribes, such as the libtards and you fine gentlemen here on debatealtright.

    Sure, a lot of them died from sickness. A lot of people were dying from sicknesses back then. I'm not talking about how their populations were further decimated, I'm talking about the concerted action taken by the cult to cull those peoples. They had a reason for doing so, and it wasn't just because they lived on some fine real estate (this is what the right tries to teach), nor because they were spiritually superior (this is what the left tries to teach). I mean, seriously, my forefathers fought in those wars, against Comanches in Texas. These wars are well-documented.

    And white people were the footsoldiers, not blacks, not jews, whites who had been forced out of Europe.

    I don't hold anyones hands, let alone someone with an ego like yours. You know how to order books from the library, how to buy them from the net. Do your due diligence on this subject, and wisen up. Very few people ever do when it comes to the natives of america. Your views on them are as cartoonish as the libtards you chastise.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

      You are again making shit up that I didn't say. I've never once took a positive view of the original ruling founders of America, I'm very much in agreeance with the James Lafond, and TRS (FTN/Borzoi) etc kind of viewpoints that America was founded by scumbags who have always been elitist and not at all pro-white.

      You should stick to the topic at hand rather than just arguing with things you're imagining. Why don't you tell us which books specifically detail the intentional genocide of Amerindians assuming they exist? Why would you waste your time making claims on the internet then when people ask you for the source of your claims you simply refuse and throw these tantrums? This makes no sense at all.

      [–]AidsVictim69 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Conservatives have a weird issue with defending or explaining away what happened in the US.

      It isn't really weird, it's a natural reaction against having history weaponized against you. White guilt is specifically used as an anti white political and ideological device. In mainstream thought whites have a trans generational racial collective responsibility for what (some of) their ancestors did and this is used to justify their replacement and anti identity ideology (or rather an inverted negative white identity is all that's allowed).

      What happened in America is basically the same thing that historically happened whenever two radically different cultural, ethnic, and religious groups directly settle the same space. I'm not going to try and defend it or make strong moral judgements on it, it happened, I can't change it, and I won't accept the replacement and discrimination against myself or people like me now because liberal history says we must balance the universal book of moral crimes (which of course happens to biased in favor of the authors). I don't know if that's how you feel (it seems you don't?) but if you have any interest in the survival of white society in the US then you should understand why the right rejects mainstream historical narratives, whether that's "fair" or not.

      It was built by slaves, refugees, and patsies. Good people fled here to escape the ethnic and religious cleansing in Europe, and did good things in spite of the system in place in America. They were never well-liked by the powers in this country.

      This is a oversimplification designed to fit into a certain ideological narrative (under dog victim like identity) because it's the only one allowed any sympathy in the current system. For your ranting about cultism you seem to fit right into the modern liberal identity cult quite well.

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      You misunderstand me on purpose, airhead

      [–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I wonder who owned all those slaves?

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

        Love the whiny little parasites in the comments who don't even tackle the argument posed.

        What is the argument? Agree or shut up?

        What makes you think anyone's a "whiny little parasite"?

        I've stated that it's not a good comparison - debate that or stop making insulting noises.

        [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Majority of European immigrants came long after America was "built".

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]DisastrousDepth14Race comes first 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          Says the guy who supports invasion of Europe.

          [–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

          North america wasn't controlled by one tribe. It was occupied by competing tribes and large parts of it were not occupied at all and barely even hunted on. Even by the weird ownership standards of native tribes north american was not owned or possessed when Europe started to colonize it.

          https://www.amren.com/videos/2017/02/whites-stole-land-from-the-indians/

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [deleted]

            [–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Europe was never strictly occupied by this one group of people.

            Proto Indo Europeans are a group of people. Sure they warred with eachother but as distinct European nations emerged they frequently banded together to keep out invaders. The Moors, Ottomans and Mongols were repelled from Europe thus preserving Europe for Europeans.

            Native American tribes were not so unified. The Iroquois alliance nations were the closest chance to a united front and they were still too far behind technologically, population size, and immune system wise.

            This argument is a little silly though because the spanish had already started to spread disease and depopulate the tribes of north america before the English showed up. It truly was very un populated in large parts of North america When the English arrived. Your case is stronger if you're talking about pre Spanish contact.