DiscussionWe are not a support club for weirdos

submitted by Mermer from self.LGBDropTheT

I'm sick of the narrative that people who felt weird, that did not fit in find their place in "LGB"T community because of how supportive they are. The T has literally become that but leave the LGB out of it. Because of gender identities like non-binary and anything in between or sexualities like pansexuality or bisexuality, people are able to find a way into the community without putting any effort in, because apparently pronouns don't equal gender and pan or bi people who only intend to date the opposite sex are soo so valid (not an attack on bisexuality, just people like that). We are not weirdos. As a gender conforming lesbian, my sexuality doesn't make me an outcast or a weirdo. It's just one apect of me. Go start an anime club or something (not an attack on anime but, you know) and don't use the community to put a label on your weirdness.

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[–]PatsyStoneMaverique 21 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Because of gender identities like non-binary and anything in between or sexualities like pansexuality or bisexuality, people are able to find a way into the community without putting any effort in, because apparently pronouns don't equal gender and pan or bi people who only intend to date the opposite sex are soo so valid (not an attack on bisexuality, just people like that).

I think there seems to be a fundamental mismatch in worldview between people who live in different areas about what the nature and purpose of a "gay community" is.

Is it a dating pool? A marriage market? A support group? A substitute family? Are strangers obligated to care about you because your family rejected you?

We beat around the bush about this topic on this sub.

[–]DimDroog 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A support group? A substitute family? Are strangers obligated to care about you because your family rejected you?

I think this is part of it.

[–]7874 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Are strangers obligated to care about you because your family rejected you?

Yes obviously. That's the whole point of having a community.

It's also known as "compassion for other human beings" especially when they're suffering from homophobia, which you purport to care about.

[–]Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That's a good point, and a reason why I've personally felt disconnected from the "community" as it were for quite a while. It's one thing to go out to a gay bar. For the most part, the expectation there is like any other bar; if you're looking for someone to hook up with or start a relationship with or whatever, it's a good place to know that most of the people there will be effectively "safe" to hit on, as opposed to a standard bar where you never really know if that cute guy is gay or straight and what his reaction will be. (Of course, that's not to say that it's impossible to have an extreme negative reaction from the other person regardless of sexuality, just that the chances would be lower.)

It's also one thing to have a support group for people that were rejected by their families for their sexuality. You have people there with common experiences that you can commiserate with and find, well, support from.

But then let's say there's a gay hiking group. What's the commonality there? Hiking, not sexuality. So for what purpose does the gay hiking group exist? Not every single gay person has the same experiences. Sure, we all have something in common, but 99% of my experiences in life are not related to my sexuality in any sense, so it's not like I'm specifically benefitting from this "gay" hiking group over any other hiking group.

Don't get me wrong, it's nice to find people that you get along with and share experiences with, and "gay" is as good a starting point as any other, but just like I wouldn't get along with everyone in a standard hiking ground, why would I be expected to get along with everyone in a gay anything group?

I think the "gay community" really only has a function for a lot of people as a political interest group, and now that a lot of the political goals have been achieved, I don't personally feel a sense of community with other gay people just for them being gay. And especially when they turn into "queer" groups or something like that, the sense of purpose seems even more nebulous to the point of not really serving any sort of purpose.

[–]hufflepuff-poet 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But then let's say there's a gay hiking group. What's the commonality there? Hiking, not sexuality. So for what purpose does the gay hiking group exist? Not every single gay person has the same experiences. Sure, we all have something in common, but 99% of my experiences in life are not related to my sexuality in any sense, so it's not like I'm specifically benefitting from this "gay" hiking group over any other hiking group.

I like gay hiking and other meetup style groups cus I think it's a good place to meet other lesbians for dating/relationships, especially cus it shows we already have something in common and bars/clubs aren't really my thing.

[–]Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly - I sort of went off on a wild, meandering road with my comment and just said, "Okay screw it" and submitted, but basically I meant that it sort of feels like the only real "purpose" for gay-specific groups (such as a gay hiking group) would be if you're looking for dating/relationships. Like, I don't have any gay male friends, and there's a part of me that wants gay male friends, but then if I really think about it, I'm like, why? Why specifically gay male friends? Just because someone is a gay man doesn't mean they'll have anything else in common with me. If I'm not looking for dating, then it would make more sense to just join a hiking group than any sort of gay group, you know?

[–]wendyokoopa1 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Totally. But also I think what we don't address is marginalization of other interests shared by some lgb too

[–]wendyokoopa1 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Trust me as a tomboy bi who loves anime and video games and music we don't want them in our area either. In their sick Marxist quest for representation they've invaded even geek culture like venom on Spider-Man. Even a lot of autistics don't want them because they've marginalized us.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Even a lot of autistics don't want them because they've marginalized us.

Exactly. There's also the fact that autistic people have a higher chance of being LGB compared to neurotypicals, which means all this genderwoo has led many to transition due to pressure from parents/caregivers/therapists/peers.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There's also the fact that autistic people have a higher chance of being LGB compared to neurotypicals

I've never seen any indication of this. I have seen data about the high overlap between autism and the T but never related to LGB. There's also a good hand waving argument about why autistic kids are far more likely to become trans but I have no idea how this could relate to the LGB side.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There was some kind of research done, pre TQ-boom, although it could've just been conflation with gender-nonconformity in autism.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Which would likely fall more under T not LGB.

If you had a citation i would read it.

Autistic children take far longer than average to learn the difference between men and women. They learn to differentiate using superficial things ie common gender stereotypes. They also tend to become obsessive over certain things.

Handwavy argument ... Certain numbers of these people do not make the correct connections but then become obsessed with the incorrect connections that were made.

[–]wendyokoopa1 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah. The only pressure thing my mom did was try to tell me to act more feminine and lady like and limit me wearing men's clothes despite the fact that they are comfortable and have real pockets. I'm not even transgender or transitioning I just couldn't find clothes I liked in the bigger woman's store. But mom wanted to me to attempt to fit whatever the gender role is for women(biological female Identify as tomboy) but even when I was exploring she still tried that it's not you crap. So yes we don't plus many of them are faking it being autistic. But we can't call them out on their bull shit because they'll pitch a fit.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Mine was the same at first, but she gave up when she saw I preferred comfier/practical clothing over dresses/skirts. She's definitely been more understanding since I got my diagnosis, but will still point out if something I'm wearing isn't appropriate for X or Y situation.

They honestly should be called out, but it's difficult to prove they're not when all you have is text and images. You often need to see video footage to be able to pick up on the familiar behavioural cues, and even then it could be faked if they've seen how an actual autistic person behaves.

[–]wendyokoopa1 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Mine was only occasionally understanding. She understands then changes her mind then finally caves. She caved on the shirt especially when she saw it was covering me for the most part like a standard night gown and I could wear it over leggings. Also yeah they should and we do but then they clap back with "whaaa you don't know I could and like it's like so different for everyone." Then the other name calling begins on both sides. Which leads to properly diagnosed autistics and aspies feeling more and more marginalized by the greater world. I'm so not kidding I would love to create a discord for people on the spectrum that's lgbi and heterosexual friendly but you have to have a doctor's certificate to get in. Seriously you have to have clinical diagnosis but then I'm sure we do that create our own little support circle they'd still find a way in. Many autistics and aspies fake being normal so you'd never even in video or text pick up cues just like they fake for tik tok being us.

[–]Mermer[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh, I'm obsessed with animation myself, but the fan bases are full of snowflakes, unfortunately.

[–]wendyokoopa1 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm again really sorry for jumping the gun and thinking this was naughty no no allegations and proving your point lol.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

what did they do to venom?

[–]wendyokoopa1 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No you missed what I said. They took over geek culture so everyone has to now be a representative of them irl. You missed the part where I said the sjw lgbt have become like venom when the symbiote infected Spider-Man. They've oozed their way in and now they've Infected marvel and DC. Remember venom is only a symbiote he's got no mass unless he takes a host

[–]onenaivecanary 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

For me, the main purpose of trying to find a gay community was to know that I was, in fact, not a wierdo. That other women felt the way I did. I would like to see a resurgence of sane gay spaces for that purpose. I'm not sure how they will happen because right now I avoid anything that advertises itself as LGBT (because it's always heavy on the TQ+), but it would be nice.

[–]Mermer[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I have the privilege to be in friend groups where being gay is completely normalized so that aspect of me doesn't make me feel odded out but my point wasn't that and LGB person can't be a weirdo or a nerd but that the gay part isn't what makes them weird. I hope you found/find your people.

[–]onenaivecanary 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most people I'm around don't make me specifically feel weird about being gay, and I'm lucky to be married, but I feel like there are a lot of INSANE LGBT+ (mostly really QT+) types in my small left-leaning city and they consistently communicate that if you aren't an anarchist freak, you're not gay. They make me worry for my future. I feel like I am more likely to be attacked by this group than your traditional homophobic bigot, and It would really give me comfort to find some normal LGB people because with straight allies I feel like 50% of the time in liberal places they are also supporting the radical QT+ over the LGB.

[–]CaptainMooseEx-Bathhouse Employee 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It's definitely something that I've seen escalate over the years since I came out. What makes it all the more frustrating is that the "community" seems more willing to come together and organize fundraisers for men to get breast implants or women to get double mastectomies but you're shit out of luck if you are a gay man/lesbian woman who is in need of housing, is between jobs, etc. And if you're an HIV+ gay or bi man relying on your local AIDS network for canned goods and clothing, you better tow the ideological line or you're cut off, mister.

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

you're shit out of luck if you are a gay man/lesbian woman who is in need of housing, is between jobs,

This happens to bisexuals frequently.

[–]7874 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Whataboutism

[–]7874 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And if you're an HIV+ gay or bi man relying on your local AIDS network for canned goods and clothing, you better tow the ideological line or you're cut off, mister.

What does this mean?

[–]wendyokoopa1 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I have to kind of agree with the rant. But again still want to say stop attacking anime because you have a preconceived notion they're all pedophiles. Yes you don't like it but accusing fans of being whatever doesn't help your rant. Think back to the old days when people called lgb pedophile who were coming after the children and were devil worshipping weirdos who needed to be institutionalized and converted. Tell me how you feel hearing that about you? Oh and the anime and comic book community don't want them either as they've destroyed our hobbies.

[–]Mermer[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Like I said I wasn't attacking anime itself, I love animation myself but the fan bases are overflowed with snowflakes, so my point/joke or whatever was that that could be something to bond over instead of appropriating the "gay" community by finding labels that could describe anyone.

[–]wendyokoopa1 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm so sorry I missed your joke I really really thought it was the implication that anime and Manga fans were well you know naughty no no types I'm also sorry I probably proved your point. Lol. These snowflakes/symbiotes have infected everything everywhere and despite their stating they've made it better? They're only fooling themselves..