all 32 comments

[–]turtleduck23 47 insightful - 1 fun47 insightful - 0 fun48 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

it makes me angry because this is what the religious right said was going to happen (kids being exposed to sexual things and sexualized). a child shouldn't know what bondage or kink is. they shouldn't have to see men or woman walking another human on a leash, or being dressed all in leather with a ball gag in their mouth. if you like this in the bedroom, fine, but why does the world have to participate in your fetish? especially children. lgb right's will be sent years back the way things are going because sadly we are being forced to "alley" with this. remember when gays and lesbians just wanted to marry, adopt and not be fired for our sexual orientation? well, now people are being told that we want children to be exposed to kink and learn about sexual fetishes.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 36 insightful - 2 fun36 insightful - 1 fun37 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It pains me to admit that the slippery slope arguments were right. I love that I am married to the man I love, but all this other shit is just pushing us towards social catastrophe.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Problem is they were right but for the wrong reasons. They were basically accusing all gays of being pedos which is obviously false but then all the pedos and autogynophiles jumped onto the road directly behind us claiming to be a part of the community.

[–]windrunner 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You said it all. That's exactly what we're headed towards now. As a lesbian I find this very revolting, pride parades don't represent me and don't say anything to me nowadays.

[–]loveSloaneSuperDuperBi 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wouldn’t even take my kid to pride to begin with, can’t imagine encouraging this

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Some people should not be parents. If a parent deliberately exposes his or her child to kinks, that is child abuse, and that parent should be thrown in jail for child abuse.

No, kink does not belong at pride parades. If pride parades do not remove kinks from their parades, then pride parades should be banned. A straight "queer" woman can call me a homophobe as much as she wants, but I don’t care what she thinks. People like her are a menace to society.

[–]Femaleisnthateful 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's so much wrong with this I wouldn't know where to start, but I'll say this:

Queer Mom, your kids aren't going to be part of the Queer Community when they grow up. They're going to become politically conservative and join an evangelical Christian sect - if not an outright cult - just to have the sense of structure and security that was denied them by their postmodernist, reality-denying, normativity-deconstructing, anything-goes upbringing. Plus, their AGP daddy is probably abusing them as well.

Children who witness kink culture are reassured that alternative experiences of sexuality and expression are valid — no matter who they become as they mature, helping them recognize that their personal experiences aren’t bad or wrong, and that they aren’t alone in their experiences.

See now, here's the problem. There most certainly are 'experiences of sexuality and expression' which are invalid, bad and very very wrong. Queer Mom doesn't try to acknowledge that fact, which is very concerning, given that many 'kinks' are at least teetering on the edge of pedophilia, rape, assault and bestiality. Besides, in what world do literal children need 'reassurance' about sexual expression? I'd say most of them haven't given it any thought, besides the ones already being abused, and for those kids, nothing about this is the message they need.

The writer only briefly addresses boundaries and consent, but explicitly states that her endorsement of kink in Pride is a middle finger to any attempt by the general public or society at large to establish boundaries or revoke consent for explicit displays of (mostly male) sexuality. Remember, her kids didn't get any say in their participation, and she wants it that way.

[–]insta 12 insightful - 9 fun12 insightful - 8 fun13 insightful - 9 fun -  (0 children)

Fucking up your kid to own the cons!!

[–]usehername[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks to u/anxietyaccount8 for posting this on s/GenderCritical . Just had to post it here as well.

[–]Rag3 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Text:

Our family often took the train into Philadelphia, but as we rode across the bridge to attend the city’s Pride parade five years ago, my wife’s leg bounced with a nervous jitter. She squeezed my hand, worried that she might run into a colleague or be harassed by a stranger. My wife is trans, and wasn’t out at the time, so she typically only expressed her authenticity in the privacy of our home. That morning she wore a green skirt and light makeup, brushing her hair all to one side. Even though we’d attended Pride marches and protests in previous years, that day was our first celebrating openly as a family.

When our children grew tired of marching, we plopped onto a nearby curb. Just as we got settled, our elementary-schooler pointed in the direction of oncoming floats, raising an eyebrow at a bare-chested man in dark sunglasses whose black suspenders clipped into a leather thong. The man paused to be spanked playfully by a partner with a flog. “What are they doing?” my curious kid asked as our toddler cheered them on. The pair was the first of a few dozen kinksters who danced down the street, laughing together as they twirled their whips and batons, some leading companions by leashes. At the time, my children were too young to understand the nuance of the situation, but I told them the truth: That these folks were members of our community celebrating who they are and what they like to do.

The kink community has participated in Pride since its inception — risking their jobs and safety to be authentically themselves in public. Still, every year as Pride Month approaches, a debate erupts about whether kink belongs at Pride at all. Those hoping to oust kinksters often cite the presence of children as their top concern. That was pointedly the case this year when Twitter users argued that kink at Pride is a highly sexualized experience that children should be shielded from. Thousands of users supported these posts, claiming that kink at Pride crosses a line because minors also attend events. I agree that Pride should be a welcoming space for children and teens, but policing how others show up doesn’t protect or uplift young people. Instead, homogenizing self-expression at Pride will do more harm to our children than good. When my own children caught glimpses of kink culture, they got to see that the queer community encompasses so many more nontraditional ways of being, living, and loving.

As much as I want them to spend time in queer spaces so they can be with families like their own, I also want them to know that they shouldn’t limit their understanding of what relationships or expression look like to whatever’s most familiar. I want them to see that they can make their own ways in the world — and know that they’ll be supported and celebrated by their community. If we want our children to learn and grow from their experiences at Pride, we should hope that they’ll encounter kink when they attend. How else can they learn about the scope and vitality of queer life?

Anti-kink advocates tend to manipulate language about safety and privacy by asserting that attendees are nonconsensually exposed to overt displays of sexuality. The most outrageous claim is that innocent bystanders are forced to participate in kink simply by sharing space with the kink community, as if the presence of kink at Pride is a perverse exhibition that kinksters pursue for their own gratification. But kinksters at Pride are not engaged in sex acts — and we cannot confuse their self-expression with obscenity. Co-opting the language of sexual autonomy only serves to bury that truth and muddies the seriousness of other conversations about consent. If this all sounds familiar, it’s because anti-kink rhetoric echoes the same socialized disgust people have projected onto other queer people when they claim that our love is not appropriate for public spaces. It’s a sentiment that tolerates queerness only if it stays within parameters — offering the kind of acceptance that comes with a catch. The middle-aged, White men who I grew up with said they were “fine” with gay people as long as they wouldn’t be subjected to PDA — as long as all signs of queer love could be outwardly erased. Queer people’s freedom to be themselves is, according to this logic, contingent on non-queer people’s freedom from exposure to it.

The arguable difference here is that many of the latest objections are coming from self-identified queer people, but that shouldn’t necessarily be surprising. Respectability politics demand that queer people assimilate as much as possible into cis- and heteronormativity, hewing to mainstream cultural standards. Members of the queer community have internalized those norms to the point that we judge ourselves by them, and then criticize and ostracize others if they don’t uphold them, too. This is the same oppressive message that prevented my wife from transitioning for 30 years, and the same message that still keeps marginalized children from coming to terms with their own experiences with desire and embodiment.

Children who witness kink culture are reassured that alternative experiences of sexuality and expression are valid — no matter who they become as they mature, helping them recognize that their personal experiences aren’t bad or wrong, and that they aren’t alone in their experiences. I can’t think of a more relevant or important reminder for youth, who often struggle with feelings of isolation and confusion as they discover more about themselves and wrestle with concerns about whether they’re normal enough. Including kink in Pride opens space for families to have necessary and powerful conversations with young people about health, safety, consent, and — most uniquely — pleasure. Kink visibility is a reminder that any person can and should shamelessly explore what brings joy and excitement. We don’t talk to our children enough about pursuing sex to fulfill carnal needs that delight and captivate us in the moment. Sharing the language of kink culture with young people provides them with valuable information about safe sex practices — such as the importance of establishing boundaries, safe words and signals, affirming the importance of planning and research and the need to seek and give enthusiastic consent. I never want my children to worry that exploring any aspect of consensual sex or touch is too taboo.

If we’re afraid to talk about kink with our children, we prioritize the status quo — sanitizing and censoring their access to information about appropriate and normal self-expression. These are the very attitudes that made Pride necessary — and life-affirming — for so many of us in the first place, and we have no business imposing them on the next generation. Kink embodies the freedom that Pride stands for, reminding attendees to unapologetically take up space as an act of resistance and celebration — refusing to bend to social pressure that asks us to be presentable. That’s a value I want my children to learn. Affirming the kink community helps our children to love themselves and others with courage and resilience. If my wife and I had seen such fierce and determined role models as young people, we might have learned to be ourselves much sooner. We didn’t have that chance, but my children have that community in Pride, and I want to keep it that way.

[–]hufflepuff-poet 36 insightful - 1 fun36 insightful - 0 fun37 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Sigh...kink is not the same as same-sex attraction unless the writer views same-sex attraction as "deviant". Same-sex attraction is natural and normal for gays, lesbians and bisexuals.

[–]usehername[S] 31 insightful - 2 fun31 insightful - 1 fun32 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

kink is not the same as same-sex attraction unless the writer views same-sex attraction as "deviant".

The writer is a straight "queer" woman with an AGP husband, so she just might.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 28 insightful - 9 fun28 insightful - 8 fun29 insightful - 9 fun -  (2 children)

My husband and I, our 10 years together through multiple houses in multiple states, enduring the ups and downs of life like deaths of close family members, new puppies, new jobs, and jobs that didn't work out as planned -- soooooo kinky.

[–]usehername[S] 20 insightful - 16 fun20 insightful - 15 fun21 insightful - 16 fun -  (0 children)

Ew how obscene... I guess I'll allow it as long as you center my bondage fetish in your movement.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 17 insightful - 14 fun17 insightful - 13 fun18 insightful - 14 fun -  (0 children)

Eww, you’re shoving your boring life down my throat. /s

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Kink and sexuality are linked for them so it must be for all of us.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s actually literally this. They think homosexuality and bisexuality are kinks and we’re all fetishists in this together. Winkwink.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

When it comes to the kink-at-pride discussion, I don't often see people explicitly debating it at the level that's salient, even though it might be implicit for a person making an argument about some minutia. The real conversation is what a pride parade is meant to be for. Like, is a pride parade for LGB assimilation, or is a pride parade for normalizing increasingly atypical organizations of sexuality, like kink, or multiple partners, or...? This is the real debate, and I don't see people having it. I also see ignorance, some of it deliberate, about what kink really is.

LGB vs kink. One formulation is a who, the other formulation is a how. The former can be shown tastefully, the latter... not so much. You can march holding hands with your partner. But as soon as you bust out an implement and start hitting each other with it...

Besides. Hitting people with things is a sex act for those people who enjoy it. They've got a weird dichotomy going on insofar as society at large regards the usual sex acts as sex acts, but atypical sexual interests are garnered some special status, because they're not genital sex, but for the kinky person, they carry similar--or the same--weight. It's a not-sex-sex-act. The fetishist is almost always using society's mainstream criteria, and not their own locus of sexuality when making these sorts of decisions.

There's a website I happened upon that's dedicated to photos of celebrities' feet, it seems to have a lot of dedicated visitors. Now, suppose I'm at work and I catch one of my employees on it. The men and women on this website are clothed. It's just photos of feet. No big deal, right? By normal standards, it's safe-for-work. But for the foot fetishist, it's potentially more erotic than PornHub.

So by what standards are we using here? It's an interesting philosophical problem. Generally, if you do it in your bedroom for erotic enjoyment, then don't volitionally do it in public, please, regardless if in a given context you find it erotic or not.

[–]usehername[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I can always count on you for an excellent analysis when kink is involved.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gotta study it if you want to understand it. Same thing with trans. Both are phenomena of which the people don't always cooperate in that regard.

[–]Bright_paintingLoad, lesbian biologist 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

She claims that kink is supposed to teach her children about boundaries and enthusiastic consent; but at the same time, she dismisses other peoples' boundraries and right to consent as ""manipulative". Her children won't learn about how a healthy relationship works by this. All they will know is that consent is something that can be ignored/manipulated. I get sad when I hear people talk like this. Poor kiddos.

[–]EveSerpentFiregender Mon-Fri / Pyrogender Wknds & Holidays 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those kids are being forced to pretend their father is female, so ‘normal’ and ‘healthy’ will be far beyond their childhood experience. Their parents are messing them up in so many ways, it’s awful.

[–]serf_n_terfStraight Ally - Surf’s up! 🏄‍♀️ 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

She and her AGP husband are groomers. Their kids are likely going to have unhealthy relationships with sex and that’s terribly sad. Sex (and sexuality) should be authentic and most of all safe. Sex to these kids will likely be conflated with pain, ridicule, and degradation. These “parents” took away their sexuality before it could even be explored.