all 60 comments

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman 49 insightful - 1 fun49 insightful - 0 fun50 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I definitely agree, it absolutely is time to start winning, but the question is how?

I won't be alone in believing that it's all well and good for JK Rowling to publicly have gender critical views (and thank God she has!) because she is rich and influential enough that a few Twitter trolls aren't going to ruin her life in a concrete way. The abuse Rowling has suffered on Twitter is abhorrent, certainly, but I doubt she will be worrying about paying the rent next month.

If we're being honest with ourselves, most of us here are comparative nobodies. There is a real risk that if we are public about our views and attach our names to them there will be real-world consequences from which we don't have JK's ability to insulate ourselves. My company is increasingly genuflecting to the Woke Inquisition as of late, and I have no doubt that before long the trans nonsense will start arriving too, but I'm worried I can't speak out without being branded a racist transphobe and losing my job. It's fine to say 'it's okay to have these views' but support and affirmation doesn't pay the rent (despite trans ideologues claiming it's the be all and end all of everything).

If nothing else, my peak-awokening has got me more interested in politics and 'activism' (even though I would never call myself an activist personally) and in recent weeks I've donated to important causes, signed petitions, wrote letters to elected representatives etc. I know that's probably the minimum standard for 'living in a society' and don't necessarily want a gold star, but if other people are peaking and getting more involved, then that's a little progress after all.

[–]jet199 31 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 0 fun32 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Look at what we're doing in the UK and copy.

Shine a light, speak in plain english not TRA chosen euphemisms, explain the consequences of policies in a cold matter of fact way, use stats and verifiable evidence, go to your political representatives directly and individually, work cross party, have trans and male allies, etc, etc.

[–]black_sheep 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I go to one of the most elite universities in the world and basically have chosen to leave academia after getting my Ph.D. because I am not allowed to express any of my real philosophical views. Even if I made it to tenure that wouldn't be until I was middle-aged and after I endured countless years of ideological submission to make it in an intensely competitive job-market that rewards groupthink masked as critical thinking through impenetrable jargon. Even assuming I got tenure and then came out with my real beliefs, there are many ways to fire someone or pressure them to resign (e.g. withdrawing research funds or ostracism, which is especially deadly if the school you work at is in the middle of nowhere). You won't be published if your ideas go against the establishment so the only way to get hired is to produce the propaganda that academic journals want for YEARS. I feel like the model I live under in academia, which is increasing spreading outside the academy, is that of Eastern Europe post WWII.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm in a similar boat. I've been thinking about returning to university to pursue a PhD, not because I have any ambitions around being a professional academic, but for love of my subject area, and also there's something of the video game completionist about me. I haven't 100%-ed higher education yet.

But then again, I don't want to spend thousands on another degree (I'm not a gifted enough academic to get funding, unfortunately) to be bombarded with woke nonsense for a couple of years.

[–]Esseteee[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Academia is going to end up being full of fools this is a threat to knowledge in general

[–]black_sheep 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can tell you that getting the degree will probably do more to harm your love of your subject than help. The social isolation is also not worth it. Most of the secondary literature on the authors I study is incoherent postmodern rants about why those authors are evil and truth doesn't exist except for the supertruth of Marxist materialism and transgenderism and everything else the contemporary academy demands you agree with.

[–]Esseteee[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe there should be some kind of new independent academic research organisation which could be funded by donation and support relevant studies by talented women like you, it would be wrong for your academic talents should go to waste and you could potentially contribute a great deal to knowledge given that you are able to think outside of the gender box, there is much that needs to be studied and explored and explained

[–]Archie 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

In what field are you?

[–]black_sheep 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Humanities is all I can say. Don't want to put too much identifying info.

[–][deleted] 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I think we are going to have to do this the old fashion way. By actually meeting people in real life. Even though there is a pandemic, you can still politically gather as is your first amendment rights. They can’t stop people meeting in a private home. As long as your views don’t have a social media presence, they can’t fire you.

[–]RevengeOfTheCis 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

While this sounds great, there is no way on earth I would try to invite other GC women into my home when I have no way of knowing whether they are legit or not. Any TRA psychopath can pretend to be GC online.

The few women I know IRL who I feel comfortable trying to talk to about this either don't really care, are total TRAs/libfems, or live in other time zones (the US is massive).

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was thinking more that we should get to know our neighbors? A lot of politics is local and who gets voted is determined at a local level. Us talking to someone from UK and befriending them isn’t going to change policies locally for us here in the US for example. Vote for people who don’t push or support this agenda and you can only do that by educating those around you.

[–]Esseteee[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There are probably some similar women in your area whatever area you are in, maybe make a project of trying to find them, maybe go to feminist events and ask subtle questions to the women you meet there to test the waters as to what their view may be

[–]RevengeOfTheCis 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

maybe go to feminist events and ask subtle questions

Hmm, that's a good idea I haven't actually tried. I generally avoid feminist events these days since every single one I've seen advertised for the last 5 years has a whole paragraph about supporting trans women in the description.

Are you recommending to just go to those events anyway, and see if there are any other crypto-TERFs there? Do you have any advice on what kind of subtle questions I can safely ask?

This is all hypothetical for now since I'm in the US and pretty much can't go anywhere due to the pandemic, but I'd like to have some ideas on what to do when this is all over.

[–]PassionateIntensity 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We need a US or North American version of Women's Place UK. We need in-person meetings and routine press releases countering the trans-bullshit. There also desperately needs to be a gay rights org that actually stands up for gay people. Even fucking Lambda Legal is pushing gay conversion therapy on kids now.

[–]FlickingMarvellous 30 insightful - 2 fun30 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

If you’re in the UK, get in touch with Baroness Nicholson. She’s in the early stages of setting up (not sure how settled the name is) the Campaign for Restoring the Rights of Woman, which so far is just letter writing but might come to more. There are also several groups like Fair Play who’re working on various campaigns.

In the US, there’s an org whose name escapes me (something like Rights4Women? Their logo is a fist maybe with a star?) that’s campaigning about the changes to the US Equality Act. Sorry for vague info, searching is giving me lots of results for the UK EA. If I find it, I’ll edit with a link.

Edit: got the name entirely wrong, it’s Feminists In Struggle (FIST):

[–]Esseteee[S] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Thank you that's great stuff to know about but I think the problem with campaigning is that no one is listening so I think legal challenges and actions need to be the way forward

[–]YoutiaoLover 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

IMO unless we're as loud as TRAs, have financial giants backing us up, no risk of being doxxed/cancelled/fired/threatened and have their governmental lobbying prowess; campaigning is a great way to start. Most of us don't have the privilege to go public with GC views because of real life consequences. We can start by supporting groups and campaigns with GC views, tell young people around us that it's ok to not conform to sexist gender roles/stereotype and peakening people by inserting facts about TRA agenda in relevant discussions.

[–][deleted] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

WoLF does legal briefs in the US. In addition there are a number of lawsuits underway and you can donate to some of them. I'm not sure about Meghan Murphy - I think she's appealing. There's Mya Forstater. There's the detransitioner suing the Tavistock. I'm not sure who else. (I have a case but am not looking for donations rn.) Donations matter but demonstrations outside the court can help too.

The pandemic is messing up legal stuff, with courts suspending some things, so that complicates it.

[–]tuesday 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

where would i find out more about any of these?

That is exactly the kind of material which i wish would be posted in this sub (in addition to the things already posted)

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)


Meghan Murphy: - she said she was filing an appeal but I don't see any info about that on that site.

Mya Forstater:

The Tavistock lawsuit:

My own case is supposed to go to case management because I'm self-represented, but we don't have a date for the next meeting (thanks, covid-19 lockdowns!). I will post on it wherever radfems are allowed to post when I have a trial date, with info for intervenors etc. if I have it.

[–]Realwoman 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Isn't Meghan Canadian?

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. She's at Feminist Current. She sued Twitter in the US though.

[–]RevengeOfTheCis 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Meghan is Canadian but she sued twitter in the US. Last I remember hearing, her suit was thrown out, but as the other user said, she may be appealing (but I don't know).

[–]FlickingMarvellous 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think she’s joining in with someone else’s suit, rather than appealing, but I can’t remember where I saw that.

[–]SharpTomorrow 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I agree. complaining is useless if not followed by activism. The biggest error of (rad) feminists is compromise. Now TRA are the gatekeepers of "feminism", literally, they control what is deemed feminism in mainstream media.

The issue is GC has to fight against a violent mob that will stop at nothing to harass, bully, destroy the life of people who come out in favor of GC. How do you protect people against that? Victims of TRA have been reported to Child protection services, their kids were sent childporn, activists called their workplace, contacted their colleagues and boss, just because they had the audacity to voice their opinion publicly about transgenderism. Don't even get me started on GC physically assaulted by TRA. So how do we protect our own?

[–]Archie 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

GC physically assaulted by TRA.

Do you have a link about that? I see TRAs making the threat all. the. time but I think I never saw them actually making the move

[–]PassionateIntensity 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

[–]Archie 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you! This sucks...

[–]SharpTomorrow 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you have a link about that? I see TRAs making the threat all. the. time but I think I never saw them actually making the move

Ask the mods of this sub for links, r/gc was full of them, i don't have the time to go through the archives.

[–]yishengqingwa666 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think one thing that's important is boycotting businesses (this includes your local establishments) that do not take girls and women's safety into account e.g bathrooms, changing rooms, locker rooms. I also refuse to patronize bars and restaurants that no-platform lesbians or gender critical radfems. Some have made it easy for me by having "No TERFs" signs posted or trans flags hung up. I have a list in my city of place I boycott and have shared it widely among local interested parties. Hit them in the wallet. Also, stickering: leaving post-its/stickers up all over the place that lead people here and to other gender critical sites.

We need a city by city database of places--both nationally and locally owned--to boycott.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I mean so far I’ve been saving tons of money boycotting business that quite frankly don’t sell anything of real value.

[–]missdaisycan 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes! Yes to $ impacting & stickering! Plant the seeds of enlightenment. (without vandalism.)

[–]jkfinn 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In 1969-1979, the height of the second wave, radical feminism was the default--and it was well defined via principles to commit to. The default now is liberal feminism/stolen trans "feminism" and, more rarely, a partial radical feminism based in a few positions. So now rather than starting with radical feminism, the trick is to peak on everything that is not fully realized, in-person radical feminism, and return to 1970 which will not be the same, but can equally radical, in-person, and committed (to a wide set of similar principles).

[–]Anna_Nym 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

One relatively simple place to start is with school boards and school curricula. If your local school board is looking for community volunteers for reviewing sex education, sign up. If yours already has an approved curriculum, check its content around gender identity and puberty, particularly if you're in a blue district.

It is very probable that you will not face push back if you flag content that uses "people with penises" and "people with vagina" languages. Most parents don't expect that in sex ed and don't want that in sex ed. They expect gender identity content to talk about dysphoria, medical transition, and anti-bullying. They will be like many of us were: shocked when we saw what was happening with language.

Other places to start is with sports and supporting girls like Selina Soule. You can see in comment sections on articles about her case that most people understand how unfair it is to make girls compete against non-medically transitioned boys.

Again, this is another area where transgender inclusion happened basically in secret. People assumed sports federations required medical transition and that there was solid research that HRT reduces male sports advantage. When cases expose that this is not the case, even many progressives understand this is unfair. That's part of why the IAAF verdict on intersex XY women was so poorly reported: journalists knew that if they accurately reported Semenya is an adrogen-sensitive XY person and that the other two women's 800 Olympic medalists were as well, very few people would disagree with the IAAF verdict. That would weaken the prospects for transwomen.

I think the more pushback starts in areas of blatant erasure and unfairness, the more people will question in general. At least, that's what happened for me.

[–]MonstrousRegiment 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Did anyone go to the Zoom webinar by Woman's Place UK with Elizabeth Hungerford and Audrey Ludwig? The subject was the current state of equality law in the US and the UK. The UK women have been doing great work. I think it's politically more complicated here in the US what with the lack of a unifying issue like national self-ID legislation. But we could end up there soon and we really need to have some strategies ready.

I signed up and then missed it because of family stuff :(

[–]MenAreFragileBabies 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I agree, I just wish I knew where to start. Maybe we need to do a Women's March on the issue or something. That's basically how BLM has pushed its message.

Most interest groups get their messaging from think tanks, though. Perhaps we need to fund one. Are there any out there we could donate to?

[–]black_sheep 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Often think tanks are fueled by rich donors. Human Rights Watch had Soros, for example. Do you think we could get Rowling to donate to a Radfem one? I think big name untouchables like her are our best hope.

[–]MenAreFragileBabies 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I think if JKR were to get one up and running, that would do as much good as what she is currently doing, if not even more so. She is doing wonderful work, but it really helps to have a group that is dedicated to researching this issue and coming up with convincing messages about it.

The other half of it is for us to then parrot those messages. This is how conservatives and TRAs manage to sway people. They are incessant and constantly spouting off the same facts and slogans. Repetition matters a lot.

[–]sisterinsomnia 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The first stage MUST be to get facts out there. I don't think there can be any second stage without that, and the whole #nodebate command is to try to stop the first stage. The facts should be focused on what is happening to existing women's rights, to the ability of feminism to address sex-based oppression if sex (well, the female sex) itself is erased as is the current trend ('menstruators,' 'pregnant people')

But yes, we should organize at the same time as this is being done. It will take some years for disseminating more facts to work, but currently they are not out there at all. Many people have the most superficial understanding of what trans activism actually aims for, many people think that all transgender people have had full surgery and have no idea that nothing now is required but a statement of identity, and many people have not followed what is happening in the medical field to children with undeveloped brains whose words are taken as the sum total of their medical diagnosis, with potentially irreversible consequences.

So the data needs to be spread, and the more of that we can do, the less the 'transphobe' slurs will bite. Well, I hope so, because the alternative is a return to some dystopic 1950s world of rigid sex roles and a few enlightened nonbinaries flitting about like butterflies.

[–]Tikiri 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree with this too, but quite frankly if you live in a Superwoke area like me, expressing any kind of GC ideas can be dangerous, especially if you’re in a vulnerable position - unemployed and looking for a job, a single parent, working jobs where employees are easily replaceable etc. Every single job I’ve done has subjected all new employees to lengthy “trainings” where they’re told in detail how even expressing discomfort with a trans person using their “chosen” bathroom can get you fired. So, if you’re stalked and harassed by a TiM while using the damn ladies’ room you’re pretty much screwed - it’s literally the law around here.

That said, I realized something simple yet, I think, might have the possibility of being effective ... if it grows into a big enough movement: stop giving money to organizations, charities, causes, politicians and politicians parties, anything that embraces the trans cult and its propaganda. The Transcult has power because it’s its aims are supported by political parties and universities, and other organizations (like the ACLU, for example) that use both taxpayer money and private donations to keep TRA propagandists on the payroll. If enough people stop giving them money because of this, I think this whole problem will end.

[–]PassionateIntensity 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have, and I have written to tell them why, but they depend much more on big-money donors than on regular people-- that's how they became corrupted in the first place. The ACLU, Planned Parenthood, "Gay" orgs, etc. did a PURGE a few years back of any dissenters on staff.

[–]AdultFemaleHuman 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with you

[–]divingrightintowork 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm cautiously optimistic that starting to point out the absurdities that are coming to head (putting a 17 yr old girl in men's prison, the Yanivs, the Rhys MacKinnons, the horror stories coming out of shelters, a judge in CT refusing to refer to TIMs as.. well.. males... etc.) And JK Rowling being a boss ass bitch and holding ground on all of this has been amazing. We're getting more reasonable voices that are holding TWATW lines, to boot...

[–]PassionateIntensity 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The prison absurdities don't seem to be getting ANY traction. You talk to anyone and they will agree with you what they're doing is dangerously insane, but the prisons haven't stopped doing it.

[–]divingrightintowork 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wish I was talking to the same people as you, I know people in meat space who would try to get me canceled if I so much as ask them to explain why fertile penis people should be in prison with women

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The problem is money. Most women don’t have access to large funds and “f—k you” money if they get fired. Men are the CEOs of large companies, they’re the ones with the high paying STEM jobs. Women at large are barely making it financially.

[–]Esseteee[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe we needs some kind of gender critical union

[–]threefingersam 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All I've been able to do is start speaking to ppl i know irl. I tend to choose carefully, since I'm aware many people my age are on the TRA bandwagon. But I live in a "woke area" so it's not safe to just share my views wherever I want.

[–]ghostprototype 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It would be helpful just to have people active on social media, actively pushing back against pro-trans rhetoric. We don't have to use our real identities, it's easy enough to make anonymous accounts

Sites like twitter are studied as a metric for gauging public opinion, and the TRAs have the benefit of having a lot of pornsick teenagers, NEETs, and neoliberals with tons of time on their hands making a lot of noise. GC feminists have very little presence by comparison

Twitter has a decent GC population. Reddit seems like a lost cause but I'd love to find a way to get back in there