Anybody else encountered TRAs and their allies claiming no one sees anyone naked in a locker room?

submitted by NDG from self.GenderCritical

I've had two tell me that they've NEVER seen another person naked in a locker room, and insinuating that anyone who might see someone naked in one is spending too much time staring at other people's bodies. So if you tell them you don't want to see a stranger's naked penis, they imply that you're some kind of perv inspecting everyone's genitals. Classic DARVO.

A couple weeks before the pandemic, I showered in a locker room full of fully nude older women who had just finished a "water aerobics for seniors" class. You couldn't look for an open shower head without seeing them. Somehow, TRAs and allies have NEVER had a similar situation happen to them. Give me a fucking break.

all 29 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]MarkTwainiac 61 insightful - 24 fun61 insightful - 23 fun62 insightful - 24 fun -  (2 children)

My guess is a large number of TRAs have never been involved in any athletic or recreational activity that would involve using a locker room. The only "sport" many seem to do is video gaming. And Olympics-level porn watching, anime consumption and wanking.

Or is LARPing now considered a sport?

[–]Thatstealthygal 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I suspect that a LOT of the women handmaidening about this stuff are, like me, completely uninterested in sports and have spent little to no time in changing rooms. I come from a place without communal changing rooms in stores, and only some communal changing areas, AND general cultural squeamishness about nudity, and yet I have definitely seen naked women in changing rooms for swimming pools or yoga for instance.

[–]OrneryStruggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

LOL this. They are NEETS who haven't seen sun in years.

[–]IridescentAnaconda 37 insightful - 12 fun37 insightful - 11 fun38 insightful - 12 fun -  (2 children)

To be fair, most of these men have never been in a male locker room.

[–]NDG[S] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Both people telling me this were women.

[–]denverkris 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean, ya. I've heard more than a few argue this, and then later say they dont care about sports or locker rooms anyway, so they dont care, and they dont understand why anyone else would.

[–]MarkTwainiac 32 insightful - 3 fun32 insightful - 2 fun33 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I've been in many, many locker rooms in clubs, schools, community recreation centers, gyms, stadiums, spas, etc since I was a wee girl first learning to swim in the early 1960s. Saw an untold number of naked girls and women - and many saw naked me.

[–]Jamiethiel2018 30 insightful - 2 fun30 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

We also, IIRC, have at least one picture with a naked TIM in a lockeroom. You can see how validated he feels, unfortunately.

Oddly enough, the number of women seen naked in a lockeroom does not make a TIM a woman, says nothing in response to my request for privacy & dignity & my right not to be vulnerable to men in enclosed communal spaces.

[–]PassionateIntensity 43 insightful - 2 fun43 insightful - 1 fun44 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Ah yes, the transwoman who took a photo of himself naked in a locker room terrifying women and posted it to Reddit. This along with the men videoing themselves masturbating in women's bathrooms in women's clothes. It's funny they keep telling us to get to know transwomen or to listen to what they say -- we have, you haven't.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Googled it and reading all of the justifications. Gross, self-absorbed, and very male to say the least.

[–]Tikiri 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Er ... how often have these people been in locker rooms? I’ve seen naked girls and women in locker rooms (so far only females, thank goodness) since I was in junior high. From p.e. locker rooms to the gym.

[–]inneedofspace 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They're full of it, you don't notice now because you're used to it but you can't stare at the ground for 10-15 minutes while changing I've tried, when you look around you will see a penis in fact, if I notice there might be a guy in the room (voice, extremely height and bulkiness, hairline typical male characteristics it only takes a glance to notice), I can assure you I'm not going to hold my head down and pretend, I'll probably just leave instead of inspecting them though even assuming it's a guy I don't feel comfortable with that. Most women are checking their surroundings at all times because we have too I'm not sure what these people were smoking.

[–]censorshipment 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Was this an online conversation? Had the TRAs actually been inside locker rooms?

I'm pushing 40 and haven't been inside a locker room, so if I were a TRA, I'd use my imagination and assume there's privacy to fit my narrative. Keep this in mind when arguing with folks online... they're likely using their imaginations.

[–]Jamiethiel2018 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This was a pic posted to reddit. If you have the stomach for it , check out Itsafetish here. They have archived their subreddit, so the evidence has been saved. Also for IRL here's an oldie : https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/07/living/feat-planet-fitness-transgender-member/index.html

Planet fitness quietly changed their locker room policy & did not notify its members. The contract stipulated seperate locker rooms. Planet Fitness took exception to other women being warned.

They know the majority of women do not feel safe in this situation, want to pander but not lose money.

[–]NDG[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Online conversation, but I know one person IRL and the other is connected to me through a site I’ve published on. The IRL one did high school and college sports.

[–]MenAreFragileBabies 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly, the area I live in in the Midwest is sort of modest even around other women. Every locker room and change room I have been in, myself and all the other women would change in a separate stall in some fashion (toilet/shower stall in the locker room, e.g.). If there were communal showers, I have only seen women use them while wearing bathing suits, even older women.

That doesn't make it OK to permit men into our changing rooms. I personally would fear him using the opportunity to masturbate to me (lots of evidence that this happens), take my picture, even take sneaky pictures of me from over top the stall. They might attack me if I happen to be otherwise alone in there. Sure, women could do the same thing, except they just don't. Women don't act like that. But there was a lot of evidence that transwomen do on /r/thisneverhappens. All of that evidence still exists, of course, even if it's hard to access

But even that is more than you really need to be opposed to sharing semi-nude spaces with men. Fact is, women in my area won't even get naked in front of other women. If they think a man could be in there, they simply won't even use a locker room, bathroom, or dressing room. Or worse, they may be forced to use them in a state of fear. Who could think it's right or OK to force women to use bathrooms where they are afraid of being preyed upon? And reasonably so, based on my preceding paragraph, but even if transwomen were the perfect lambs TRAs claim, it would still not be OK. What if we are talking about domestic abuse or rape victims-- who make up a large percentage of the female population, due to male violence? We are going to make them fear to go out in public, so that a tiny minority of the aggressor sex feels validated in their "identity"?

It's just not right. Why isn't there a call for men to be accepting of trans people in their bathrooms? Ultimately the source of the problem is their violence. Women are victims of it too. It's not OK to shift the blame for it onto us.

And for the record, I don't think transmen should be allowed on our bathrooms either. If you look male or are male, stay the F out.

[–]divingrightintowork 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I regularly see nekkie ppl in mine.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Um, yeah, no, the nek is standard in women's locker rooms. 🙄

[–]squintypreyeyes 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Honestly it's kind of true in my experience. I've only really been in locker rooms for school sport. We had to change from our regular school uniform into our sports uniform. Some girls would only change in the stalls, while the rest perfected the art of putting their sports shirt on top, and then awkwardly wriggling out of their regular blouse underneath, eventually pulling it from the armhole. Girls who were okay with actually taking their shirts off were branded sluts, and the other girls would comment and gossip about their bras and boob size. Older women would tell us "we're all girls here, there's nothing to be embarrassed about" but it just didn't ring true for us.

I don't know if this was just my school/year group, but if it's reflective of my demographic in general I wonder if some people are hoping that trans acceptance will basically put an end to communal changing rooms in favour of individual stalls. I'm mid 20s.

[–]NDG[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh my God, “sluts” because they took their shirts off?! I didn’t play sports in school and did beginning ballet to fulfill my high school gym requirement, so I haven’t changed with a class in a locker room since eighth grade. (Ballet class was too far from the locker room and everyone changed in the nearby bathroom.) I get the whole thing with being embarrassed about being naked, but the whole “sluts” thing is even more insane than calling people sluts usually is.

[–]3MistersAndAMissy 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Teen girls are self conscious of their bodies and fear the scrutiny of others. I was like that in high school but have since outgrown it. I go to the gym 4-4 times a week and always change/shower after as I am on my way to work. I am middle aged and have had several children. My body is quite imperfect but I get naked without any self consciousness.

I favor having changing stalls available but hope it doesn’t become the standard. I do not wish to have to wait in line for a stall or risk being seen as an exhibitionist.

[–]squintypreyeyes 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, I think people tend to grow out of it. But for the younger demographic, which I assume has the most trans activists, having a couple of TiMs in the changing room probably wouldn't change much. They are too self conscious to change in front of others, which is probably why they project and think people don't get naked in changing rooms.

[–]meranii 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow, that's wild, idk what was going on in your school. There was never anything like that at my school (probably a different country since we don't have school uniforms), if anything when someone had a new bra they'd receive compliments on it, but in general everyone minded their own business in the changing rooms. There was definitely bullying too, but never about physical things, more like people not having the latest fashion or someone being excluded from a party because they'd fallen out of favor with the cool kids.

[–]WrongToy 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What they mean is that they won't be flashing naked peen at you or maybe not overtly staring at you.

Instead of what they said.

I swim at a public pool (well not this year) and have regularly been in showers with multiple women.

[–]3MistersAndAMissy 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They are thinking of high school changing rooms. I’m sure it’s not because they are pervs.

There are many other changing rooms such as at the gym. I have seen countless naked women at my gym and they have seen me.

[–]Anandamide 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a locker room, people are naked, and in the sauna are even more naked people. Having spent too much time in Finland, I'm pretty unbothered by the site of nudity, but it's still segregated by sex (except for the hippie sompasauna in Helsinki). Being discreet and not staring is just normal behavior...and no, I don't want to see your penis in the women's locker room, damn.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Seriously even my very conservative neighborhood public pool had women walking around naked. We even had a fully nude Korean spa which always got attacked by TRAs, which luckily got drowned by the positive reviews by locals. I can’t believe I left that for Seattle. Seattle is such a shithole. Think I’m divorcing my very liberal husband and moving back.

[–]bellatrixbells 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I personally don't go around naked in changing rooms but I've seen women walking around butt naked in them. In this debate, I believe they probably feel they can because they know only people with a similar anatomy will be there. I'm willing to bet a lot they wouldn't in a different, "unisex" context.

[–]feministunderyrbed 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Women and girls in women’s locker rooms aren’t looking at other women and we’re really fucking not videoing in there the way TiM fetishists think we should, but it’s impossible not to see naked bodies there. Young girls shouldn’t be seeing dicks in there and dicks really should not be seeing the young girls.