all 88 comments

[–]TheBeefBenson 18 insightful - 10 fun18 insightful - 9 fun19 insightful - 10 fun -  (88 children)

Welcome. We've got radical feminists, neo nazis, Christian conservatives and not a lot else. The only thing anyone has in common here is that they're all anti-porn... and they don't employ much nuance when they come to defining it.

I only come here because I'm "gender critical" (from a non ideological standpoint) and was given the impression you didn't have to be a radical feminist to get along in the GC community. This is not the case.

I've go to Ruqqus mostly and it feels like there's less of an extreme there. You do still get people from the fringes but the centre feels a lot more fleshed out there.

[–][deleted]  (66 children)


    [–][deleted] 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (17 children)

    I completely agree with you. I am a researcher of TRUTH before any ideology. But by researching only pure TRUTH, I found myself becoming a NAZI. I feel that critical thought will do that to anybody who keeps at it.

    Now by Nazi I mean a classical racist, not some dumb jerk who uses the N-word every other sentence, a national socialist, a traditionalist in terms of morality, and a socialist-capitalist (therefore ANTI-COMMUNIST to the utmost) economically. Again, anybody with life experience and a good head on their shoulders, by seeking truth, will arrive at the same destination.

    [–]newguy 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (15 children)

    What a ridiculous conclusion. "Everyone who searches for truth becomes a Nazi."

    Do you hear yourself? Goodness what a simple-minded thing to say.

    [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

    How did I become a Nazi by simply studying and looking for objective truth then? Please, no more ad hominems. There are already too many such comments flying around.

    [–]newguy 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    But by researching only pure TRUTH, I found myself becoming a NAZI. I feel that critical thought will do that to anybody who keeps at it.

    Literally you, in the previous post. So I guess that proves it.

    Do you have short term memory loss about your own posts?

    You just have hateful thoughts and you this ideology fits that hate, so you see it as truth.

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

    Ah, the old pot calling the kettle black. I told you: I am and have always been A TRUTH RESEARCHER. Not a "hate adopter" or however you would characterize me.

    But I see you for what you are now: ill faith.

    [–]newguy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    You're completely asleep and are putting the world on a war footing by holding such beliefs. You want to destroy humanity, not save it.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Well, you've achieved one thing: me feeling sorry for you. Provided you're white and not a shill.

    [–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    Truth does not have an ideology per ser. You can learn that whites are genetically superior to blacks and it can lead you to the conclusion that they then ought to be slaves to the master race or it could lead you to the conclusion that whites then have the responsibility to take care of blacks or it could lead you to the conclusion that segregation of the races is better etc.

    Facts are not in and of themselves defining for an ideology. One of my problems getting red pilled was the lack of non-alt right perspectives of the red pills or facts.
    But I think social democracy can be just as good an ideology with all the facts in mind. It's the current government of Denmark and one of their ministers cheered this week because we've had so few refugees this year and he also yesterday I believe said that integration has been a tragedy and that it isn't working.

    [–][deleted] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

    "Classical racism" is ABSOLUTELY NOT: "Whites are superior to blacks" that is racist prejudice. Classical racism is the mindset that allows one to ask such politically incorrect, yet interesting questions such as: "Why are blacks dominating in sports?" "Why are Asians dominating in manufacturing?" "Why are whites dominating in innovation?" "Why are Jews dominating in subversion and sabotage?", etc. And Nazism is definitely grounded in CLASSICAL racism, not in racist prejudice. Please learn topics before posting about them.

    "Facts are not in and of themselves defining for an ideology." Agreed! Except of course, when said "ideology" is simply the adoption of objective truth. In that one case only, Facts and "ideology" if you wish, meet and are the same!

    Social democracy is great, so long as the civilization (nation, country, whatever) is HOMOGENEOUS. But that's a first-step requirement to achieve it. Look at Norway and Sweden, what's going on there. What is the way to achieve sufficient sociocultural homogeneity? Nazism of course, which is National Socialism. It's literally a Socialist (capitalist socialism, absolutely ANTI-COMMUNIST) nationalist regime. And you can't have the social aspect of it without the nationalist aspect of it first. If most Danes are DANES, then you already have a good part of the nationalism of the national socialists and you can concentrate yourself on the social aspect of this dual view of national priorities.

    You are basically arguing for my position.

    I understand it's infuriating to argue with me. But that's only because I side with objective truth. As such, there is nothing to twist out of shape to fit my "narrative". Just plain facts that nobody can argue around.

    [–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

    You can achieve sociocultural homogeneity with social democracy too. We are going in that direction currently in Denmark after having 40 years of going in the multicultural direction. Times are changing.

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

    Not if you don't have enough of it first. Also, Jews will take care of your "democratic sociocultural homogeneity". They will destroy that in no time, the moment they decide to. It cannot be done democratically if these subhuman subversives decide it isn't happening.

    You have to get rid of that scum first and foremost. Otherwise, it's just a matter of when they decide to pull a Sweden / Norway / France / Germany / most of the EU type invasion on you. Right now, they're still focusing on Europe (and other places) as a whole. But once that's done, they will get their claws into your politicians and have them dance to their tune. That's when "surprisingly" and "out of nowhere" politicians will suddenly vote in laws that go against everything the Danish people want. And by the time the people react? The population will be 40% muslim terrorists.

    [–]bald-janitor 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Sweden is ruined, mixed people everywhere like USA

    [–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    40% muslim? We have ~5% muslim population right now and they're hated as fuck. We get 200 refugees this year and danes are MAD. We don't want this shit.
    We have a political party with a policy that wants to kick out 700k muslims from Denmark that gets ~2% votes. We have ~300k muslims in Denmark. The policies of that party are so far out and absurd. The biggest left wing party in Denmark is anti-immigration now.

    40% muslim terrorists? Bro :)
    People are already reacting now. If they voted in those laws, you wouldn't want to be a muslim in Denmark. 40% would quickly go to 0% if that happend. Muslims are 165 cm tall pussies and Denmark is a very small country with no place to hide.

    [–]nihilnashwar[S] 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

    It wasn't that the alt-right (or sameoldrightbut2.0andupdatedvocabulary) had no viable counter arguments, it had to do more so with both sides being very tribal in their approach to any issue and the general lack of interest or an open mind to the arguments of the other side. But one side had the authority of controlling the flow and they shut the gates as they wanted to.

    The weather is still tribal in nature and it is rather evident by the inability of the said alt-right to escape the rabbit hole despite distancing from their left counterparts, the arguments and language, and the general nature in approaching any problem remains quite the same. The extreme positions taken by either due to their proximity to each other hasn't subsided even after the proximity has been dissolved. The problem is simply tribalism and i'm afraid it is here to stay. It can only be overcome with an enormous amount of active effort to communicate from parts of either side which none appear to be interested in investing themselves in as it is believed to be of no reward to do so.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)


      [–]nihilnashwar[S] 10 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

      The alt right is very interested in debate because that's one of the ways to expose the lies of the leftist propaganda.

      I have to disagree with that. Because for the numerous times i have tried to present an argument with the said alt-types, most simply wont acknowledge a simple logical fact and expect the counter argument to be made from within their own comfortable ideological bubble, when these encounter an immature and easily frustrated member of their opposing tribe, such examples of "LEFTIST COMMIE EXPOSED!!!" , "ALT-RIGHT NAZI DESTROYED!!!" type of content comes in to existence. To put it rather simply, most alt right chronic "arguers" wants someone to explain to them the difficulties of running uphill through using only the parameters of their experience of striding downhill, which in itself is an illogical viewpoint to the problem being discussed. They build their arguments based them going downhill and keep circling around it claiming uphill is a hoax. Replace alt-right with the extremists of the other side, you have a perfect disaster of a society where these two groups makes the loudest of public opinion and drives the social optics.

      [–]Dragonerne 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      You can put your opinion to the test. They have a subsaiddit here s/debatealtright and I'll happily change my mind if you expose them for what you say they are.
      I have yet to see what you're expressing here.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)


        [–]Dragonerne 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Race is real and has a biological basis.

        [–]Excantare 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

        Your crusade to convert saidit to alt-right will only succeed in destroying the site.

        You can abuse crime statistics all you want to win debate points but in the end you are arguing for a white ethnostate and segregation, whereas the (not identity-divided) left is using their "propaganda" to point out flaws in relying purely on statistical studies in order to advocate for empathy for poor people, and therefore economic equality. Empathy will ultimately win people over your dreams of another sociopathic authoritarian ethnostate.

        [–]Dragonerne 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (17 children)

        Your crusade to convert saidit to alt-right will only succeed in destroying the site.

        I'm not even alt-right myself and I'm not trying to convert anyone. I am speaking the truth. This is what will happen. If you think it will destroy the site, then you need to find a solution. Screaming at me will not do anything.

        whereas the (not identity-divided) left is using their "propaganda" to point out flaws in relying purely on statistical studies in order to advocate for empathy for poor people, and therefore Economic equality

        Genocide of white people is not "equality" nor is it empathy.

        [–]Excantare 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

        Yes, the solution is me and others also posting here. I'm sorry if my text came off as "screaming" at you.

        Your opinions of "blacks are genetically inferior, irredeemably bad, and we should pay them all to move to Africa" led me to conclude that you're pretty much alt-right.

        Nobody is genociding white people? If you dislike white people not having enough babies then... have more babies?? Start a cult? Found a new ethnostate somewhere in the middle east? I don't know get creative.

        I know you're gonna say something like "I and the left have no arguments against" (your favorite ad hominem) and to that I'd say I've never had to debate anyone who holds such a foundational, racist view that black people are inherently bad/inferior, and that society should provide zero safety nets for them and impoverished people. I'll need time to come up with counters, but I'll probably be around with them.

        Also want to point out to everyone this guy entered a dog pile debate with me in a thread that started with someone flat-out calling Michelle Obama an "ugly monkey nigger".

        [–]Dragonerne 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (14 children)

        If you dislike white people not having enough babies then... have more babies?

        White people are having enough babies. The problem is the colonization and invasion of white countries by non-whites, which causes white flight and displacement of whites. It causes whites to lose power and control of their own countries. Immigration into white countries must be stopped and reversed.

        Found a new ethnostate somewhere in the middle east? I don't know get creative.

        We're not moving or giving up our own civilization to others. We're here to stay.

        I know you're gonna say something like "I and the left have no arguments against" (your favorite ad hominem)

        It's not an ad hominem to say that you do not have any arguments if you do not have any arguments.

        I'll need time to come up with counters, but I'll probably be around with them.

        I will look forward to you having arguments then.

        Also want to point out to everyone this guy entered a dog pile debate with me in a thread that started with someone flat-out calling Michelle Obama an "ugly monkey nigger".

        This is just dragging down the level of debate, because you don't have any arguments.

        [–]Excantare 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

        Na, I'm just pointing it out to everyone to help others make the inference that you're a bad-faith race troll on this site.

        [–]Dragonerne 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (12 children)

        Yes, you're attacking my character instead of my ideas so that others don't want to engage.
        This is what Excantare wrote yesterday and why he feels the need to attack my character after he lost the debate:

        You have a detestable, disgusting agenda and I feel sorry for whatever events in your life led you to this point, but per this site's ethos I respect your ability to speak it.

        To which I replied:

        It's your way of saying you don't have any arguments and sadly we're not on reddit, so you can't get me deplatformed for being pro-white.

        For some reason he feels the need to drag that conversation in here to continue his attack on my character instead of refuting my ideas.

        He started this conversation by saying that "my ideas" will ruin the site but I don't see how his behaviour is at all in line with the pyramid of debate. If he disagrees with me fine, then come with arguments, but insulting me and putting the focus on my character is not great. This is one of the biggest problems with reddit actually. People on there can't just have a normal debate.

        [–]newguy 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

        Your ideas are as poor as your character. Excantare is correct. You're here to forum slide, and make a mess of this forum by appearing to be a "reasonable" racist

        [–]Dragonerne 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

        You two are the ones derailing and dragging down the conversation by attacking my character.
        "Your ideas are as poor as your character" is not an argument.
        "Excantara is correct" is not an argument.
        "You're here to forum slide" is not an argument but a false claim.
        "and make a mess of this forum by appearing to be a reasonable racist" is not an argument but thanks? I guess...

        [–]Excantare 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

        I love that you're trying so hard to sound like the reasonable one here

        [–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        It's not actually very hard when you don't have any arguments.

        [–]StBlops2cel_is_Lord 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

        abuse crime statistics

        you mean 'talk about actual statistics'?

        [–]newguy 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Your crusade to convert saidit to alt-right will only succeed in destroying the site.

        You realize that is their intent right? These people likely don't believe these things. They are here to cause a mess and make it uncomfortable for anyone else to use. That is the goal.

        [–]bald-janitor 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

        13 50

        [–]Excantare 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        [–]newguy 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

        It should come as no surprise that anywhere that allows free speech will turn into an alt right space fast. If GC decides to stay, they will be converted too.

        I like how you say this like it's all 100% about logic and reason, and not an obvious brigading attempt like is going on constantly around the internet.

        Forcing reasonable spaces to become extremism hives is how those neutral gray areas are destroyed. I imagine you upvoted yourself a few times with a few other accounts too.

        [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

        Because it is logical. The objective truth of the historical and current reality only supports that conclusion. But you are not interested in objectivity or truth, are you? You are interested in CONFIRMING that what you already believe, is the truth. It's a lot less work and a lot less threatening to the ego. This is understood.

        But discomfort does not change facts. Reality does not ask itself if it's hurting your preconceptions or feelings. It just IS.

        [–]newguy 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

        Truth is great. Nazism is shit.

        [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

        They are one thing.

        [–]newguy 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

        1. If you think one ideology has the monopoly on truth, you really don't know much.

        2. If you think Nazism is that ideology, then you're doubly foolish.

        I think you don't really believe this stuff anyway, and you're just trying to be provacative to push people off this forum. Aka arguing in bad faith. Funny how the trolls always accuse you of the exact thing they're doing.

        [–]Dragonerne 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Funny how the trolls always accuse you of the exact thing they're doing.

        Yes it is funny actually :)

        [–]Dragonerne 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

        It is about logic and reason. A great example of how this dynamic plays out is this very thread.
        One side presents a reasonable position and the other responds with character attacks instead of the reasonable positions.
        The high IQ audience detects that one side has all the arguments and the other is just ad hominem, which makes him reconsider his own positions. Maybe they are actually right.
        The low IQ audience detects the ad hominems and either finds it funny (if they already agreed with the rude person) or not funny (if they already didn't agree with the rude person). It moves no one.
        Over time this means that the high IQ audience starts regurgitating the reasonable positions themselves which converts even more to the side and so the story continues.

        Which audience do you actually think you're convincing by writing this:

        Forcing reasonable spaces to become extremism hives is how those neutral gray areas are destroyed. I imagine you upvoted yourself a few times with a few other accounts too.

        Everyone with >100 IQ can see the bias and the lack of content. You're not actually presenting any arguments here. Just baseless ad hominems and character attacks.

        [–]newguy 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

        People can dress up hatred and racism using a lot of high-minded sounding language, but that doesn't change the basis of it as being hateful and racist. These are things I stand against.

        [–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        I actually agree wholeheartedly with that comment. I could've written it.

        But I bet we don't agree on the definition of "hate" and "racism". Do you support affirmative action? A racist policy that discriminates against individuals that happen to have a white skin colour?

        [–]ISaidWhatISaid 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

        If GC decides to stay, they will be converted too.

        I don't expect them to stay, their GC leaders just opened up their own forum. It's called "Ovarit" and they're already trash-talking other non-GC women there, so it's the typical usual example of online feminist solidarity and sisterhood, as to be expected.

        GC is a fact based ideology and they respect rational discussion, which is why they will eventually be converted into the alt right or closely aligned with the alt right if they stay here.

        I don't think so, a lot of GCs are far-to-center leftists (some of them were actual card-carrying UK Labour Party members until they got kicked out of the Party for being GC) and they hate anything rightwing and especially the alt right. Also, a lot of these GC females are Alpha Females that want others to submit others to their ideology. At the very most you can get GCs to listen to those "intellectual dark web" people who are liberal/libertarian types, but GCs will never get into the alt right.

        [–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Yes, it's possible that they will leave and create their own echochamber.

        Also, a lot of these GC females are Alpha Females that want others to submit others to their ideology.

        Absolutely. That's a strength.

        At the very most you can get GCs to listen to those "intellectual dark web" people who are liberal/libertarian types, but GCs will never get into the alt right.

        As long as they are fact based and rational, which is my experience, then they will go through the same pipeline as everyone else.
        It could be fun to watch beacuse they might evolve their own GC version of the alt-right. We might end up with alpha females running the show - that's how it is in the danish pro-danish parties.
        If you want others to submit to your ideology, then there is nothing better than having the facts on your side. The travel through the pipeline could take years of course but it would happen, no doubt in my mind.
        GCs already accept biology and a lot of other red pills. They are not actually that different from the alt right. They might actually be further away from the IDW types than alt-righters.

        [–]asterias 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Actually they have been calling everyone an "alt-righter", sort of like how they used to call everyone a "fascist". Give it some time and they will start discovering "alt-righters" among themselves.

        [–][deleted]  (5 children)


          [–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

          Races are real

          [–][deleted]  (3 children)


            [–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

            Crime is based on what a country finds to be immoral.

            Like killing, corruption etc.

            Higher intelligence - One way or another IQ tends to go up over time.

            No it doesn't. You're talking about the flynn effect and clearly don't have an understanding of this subject if this is your take.

            Why not say let's make the world more ashkenazic jew?

            Sure. It would increase intelligence.

            more money - God do I hate capitalists.

            That's not a refutation. Try again. More white people, wealthier country.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)


              [–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              You realize most corruption happens from the rich right? Which auth right loves. Most killings are either A. people mixed in with the wrong people, like people selling drugs or whatever, or the husband.

              Not a refutation. Crime will be lower the whiter the country is.

              Yes it is. More money is a means to an end.

              No it's not a refutation of "more whites, more money".

              [–]cybitch 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

              Why did you find it difficult to get along with the GC community?

              [–]TheBeefBenson 11 insightful - 6 fun11 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 6 fun -  (8 children)

              I think I already said that it was because they tend to be radical feminists. Since I fundamentally disagree with them on many points I don't feel there's much sense having a discussion when there's a pretty low ceiling on what we can talk about. I also feel they are prone to ideological puritanism and can have very conservative and restrictive opinions on what women and men can do in a consensual environment.

              Also, as a man I don't feel comfortable intruding in what I perceive to be a woman's space, which is the impression I get from GC. However, I think ideas have to be free from belonging to any group and must exist on their own merit. So sometimes I'd like to speak on issues but I worry about ruffling too many easily ruffled feathers and wasting my time as well as worrying if it's appropriate that I do speak at all.

              Lastly, the lack of accountability shown when it comes to the role feminism has played in creating this situation leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Feminism has been the dominant cultural force for quite a while now. They were silent if not supportive when provable absurdities like the "gender pay gap" were pushed, they were silent or supportive when the concept of manhood was totally denigrated and never framed in a positive context, they were silent if not gleeful when the outrage mobs and the witch hunts started, when they denied due process, when they sought equity over equality, when they pushed ideology before facts. This censorious culture we must now all endure was brought in by feminism. The ideology of feminism has marched, almost lock step, with left wing authoritarianism, with Marxism, socialism and even communism. Now women are no longer needed to fulfil the left's plans they have been abandoned and the radical feminists seem to be more agreived that they lost control of the movement rather than questioning whether they should have been part of it all and they role they played in ushering it in.

              Yet is not only the part feminism has played in siding with authoritarianism, but also the inadvertent creation of the trans epidemic itself. Young men have been taught from a young age that being born male is a cardinal sin, that identifying with masculinity is toxic, that the whole western world is based on a tyrannical patriarchy that allows women no autonomy or power. Told this by organisations, by an education system, a media, that was totally dominated by the will of feminism, told this by women who had power over them; as they denied they had power over any men at all because some men had power over them... men who also agreed with the mandates of feminist thought in public if not in private, and when their misdeeds were made public they were quietly ignored for the sake of the movement.

              Young men were robbed of the chance of ever becoming men and feminism was one of the prime vehicles through which it happened. And what was the end result? Trans males. Males who hate themselves as much as they hate the people that made them hate themselves. Has it never occurred to the feminists here that when these males stopped identifying as men that they became animals? That even the MGTOW crowd and the ultra manosphere were not nearly as half as pyschotically aggressive as many of these TIMs are? Something should have clicked then for the rad fems about what the ideal of manhood means, that for most men strength is measured in tandem with magnanimity and you can't have one without the other. But it hasn't clicked. They still act like it was by the will of men collectively, through invisible and intangible systems of omnipotent control, that pushed males into rejecting manhood and opened up the doors to the sanctuaries of womanhood. It was feminism, that created them, it was woman who brought them in, it was women who bullied and jostled for virtue points in supporting for them and it was women who threw the rad fems out. But on GC you get the impression that it's all the fault of men and the patriarchy. But men had nothing to do with this. Feminism made these TIMs and women brought them in. So seeing just a molecule of accountability would be nice, would give me confidence that the gender critical movement works towards reason and sense and not just another narrative.

              The last thing that I think GC and the rad fems need to recognise is that the only men who have stood up for not only the gender critical perspective but also the rights of the rad fems too, even whilst aware of the hatred rad fems can have for them, has been men who don't typically identify as feminists. Who have often criticised it. Who have eschewed a masculine code of conduct. It's ironic that not long ago rad fems despised people like Joe Rogan, Steven Crowder, Sargon of Akkad, yet these are the men who will stand up and support them. So maybe it's time to rethink some of their prejudices against men and masculinity.

              I hope this didn't come across as too much of a rant, I said a lot more then I expected to, and I hope I didn't seem like I was making pejorative and generalised statements about women. That was not my intent. I wish only that that movements, all movements, take the time to reflect on themselves and don't get caught up in prejudice and delusion.

              [–][deleted]  (7 children)


                [–]IridescentAnaconda 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                I agree with your comment and its parent: feminism does share some responsibility for the trans debacle, in exactly the ways documented. Also, radical feminism does conform to many of the same critical social justice theory abominations that characterize the trans movement and the left in general.

                Nevertheless, I still participate on the GC forums (though I won't attempt to enter spaces that have specifically been demarcated as women-only, obviously out of respect for these groups and their right to form their own inclusion/exclusion criteria). Some radical feminists' criticisms are accurate for some men and I support their right to discuss them, even while I disagree that their characterizations apply in general. (I especially like this quote, "the ideal of manhood means ... for most men strength is measured in tandem with magnanimity and you can't have one without the other" as it I think characterizes how most men try to operate even though we don't always meet the ideals 100% in practice.) I do think many radical feminists are working out their own personal traumas, and this may be part of the journey they need to take. I think we can agree to disagree on certain points sometimes. I am heartsick that many such women have been abused to the degree that they see all men as monsters rather than being able to locate their anger at the specific aggressors who caused their pain.

                [–]TheBeefBenson 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

                It's really cheered me up reading that, so thank you.

                Although I can understand being suspicious of certain people and movements that you may consider to be fairweather friends, like Trump (though I really don't think he's that bad of a guy), there comes a point where it's being puritanical and bigoted rather than just being cautious.

                Everyone seems so tribal and cultish these days...

                Anyway, let me tell you about this great guy called L. Ron Hubbard. ;)

                [–]cybitch 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

                It really annoys me how women are always expected to fall in line, by both the left and the right. There are zero options for those of us who actually want to say whatever the fuck we want on the internet for fuck's sake. Like, yay, men no longer get to restrict our freedom, now we get to do it to each other! What's the point of feminism if we still have to censor ourselves everywhere? This is also why the whole TERF thing took off like it did, even though men are the ones killing troons over their gay panic or whatever. Women will tell other women to obey the troons, men do no such thing. I hate that I was born a woman. Not that I feel like a man or even masculine or anything, but men get to be human beings with individual opinions, not told what they can and can't say at every turn.

                [–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

                I hate that I was born a woman.

                Come to Denmark. We are ranked #1 for women on most parameters and those things you dislike are not a part of danish culture.

                The only thing most danes will be judgemental about is islam and its treatment of women and a part of the danish population will look down upon women wearing the islamic veil because of the oppression of women that it represents. But even then most wont care because they feel she has the right to wear it, although they don't support what it represent.

                GC (without intersectional feminism) is the norm here, no doubt about that.

                [–]ISaidWhatISaid 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

                GC (without intersectional feminism) is the norm here, no doubt about that.

                How is this so in Denmark? You people actually pioneered a lot of this trans stuff, so I would have expected Denmark to be true believers of gender ideology. Christine Jorgenssen literally went to Denmark to transition because that was not yet an option in the US. How did Denmark end up GC after starting out as a trans pioneering country?

                [–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                It's kind of like how "social liberalism" is described the same in Denmark and the US but are completely different in reality.

                In Denmark we have this fundamental idea that it's important to accept people even if they are different from us. But we hate if people preach at us. So the attitude is that you can do as you please and we wont judge you for it. 99% will not agree with you but they will still respect you and accept you. So I saw this documentary about a transkid, I don't think she got any treatment but she/he wanted to treated as a girl or boy, tbh I can't remember which way it was. The way it was solved was that during sport lessons, she would go to shower 5 minutes earlier than everyone else.
                My experience is that Danes don't believe in gender ideology at all.

                Does that make sense?

                [–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                [–]kokolokoNightcrawler 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

                OP is reeeeeeee

                [–]TheBeefBenson 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

                Absolute gold. Stealing it.

                I suspect the jew jokes will be along shortly.

                [–]SaidOverRed 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                "Why not both?" lol. But seriously I think requiring people to laugh at themselves is the first step to being able to laugh at other people honestly.

                [–]Excantare 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                You don't have to be a radical feminist for /s/lgbdropthet, they're critical of new gender theory while also avoiding some of the more extreme stuff that can come from rad fems.

                [–]JustWhy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

                I really wish there was a neutral gender critical sub. I'm a feminist but I dislike the GC hatred of men and not feminists btw. I always believed there is more to be gained from meeting in the middle. Yes I guess there is value in a women's only discussion space but I strongly feel that we have more to gain from everyone discussing being gender critical right now. Please don't be turned off from it.

                [–][deleted]  (3 children)


                  [–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

                  The biggest harm the feminist movement has done is telling men that they are the same as women or that they deserve equal treatment.
                  This is a fantasy, society doesn't agree and women don't agree. Both might say they agree but they don't.
                  The world doesn't work that way which is why it's extremely damaging for boys to learn such a lie from young age.

                  [–]dazedandsubdued 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

                  could you explain further? men and women don't deserve equal treatment?

                  [–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  Sure, I could. Men and women are unequal both in society and in the relationships. This is a function of nature.

                  Laws that treat men and women as if we were equals when we are unequals are not really giving "equal treatment".

                  An example of a law that is "equal" could be that after a divorce the man and the woman splits the wealth 50:50.
                  This law treats men and women equally so how is that unfair?

                  Men and women don't go into relationships as equals. Women usually date richer men and men with higher social status than them.
                  A divorce law as mentioned above would hence be extremely beneficial to women as a group and very harmful to men as a group - despite seemingly treating men and women "equally".

                  [–]SaidOverRed 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                  That's, like, what happens if you evenly divide the political pie into 3 equally spaced slices. Yeah, most of us are used to 4 (left, right, moderate, fascist), but we actually have a surprisingly equidistant distribution. I might not like the other two, but I can get along with them, even if they are pretty far away from me politically.

                  I'm used to conservatives stomaching large disagreements they have with each other and focusing on the things that matter. But it's actually kind of refreshing to see those a third of the circle away doing the same and continuing to talk civilly, especially with how rare that has seemed recently.

                  [–]Narrator 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  There are a lot of yuppies and richer who get on the big tent leftist bandwagon because they like porn, or their gay friend, or slutting around, or some movie star who is into big tent. Then shit goes to far, like the transgender stuff or not believing in free speech, or defund the police, or rubbing shoulders with radical islamists in the big tent and they question the big tent, they get cancelled, and wind up here.

                  [–]christnmusicreleases 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

                  Welcome! Hope saidit doesn't go the way of Reddit and Digg.

                  [–]magnora7 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                  or voat.

                  [–]magnora7 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                  Welcome, it's sad how the admins and the mods work together on reddit to ideologically hijack the platform more and more thoroughly. There's all types of people here on saidit, so we welcome you and your thoughts.

                  [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

                  We all believe in our own truth, don’t we?

                  Every side believes that their side is the correct one.

                  Unless all of us open our ears and minds to consider that each side (whatever it may be) has some truth, none of us will ever be in sync. I don’t go to the debate subs to argue. I read them and try to glean something that may resonate with me.

                  I am here because Reddit kicked out 65k gender critical people (as well as multiple other wrongthink subs).

                  I am not a liberal leftist. When they started agreeing that a male that simply states that he is a woman, is an actual woman, that was it for me.

                  The woke accepted men into womanhood without even blinking their eyes.

                  I am a radical feminist and don’t know exactly where I fit in any more.

                  Reddit is a woke universe.

                  [–]SaidOverRed 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  The top comment is more or less correct. If you are the 1st group and are looking around but don't like the 2nd group, try the 3rd group. You've known we will accept you. You've always known. It will require to let go of the hate and it will require you to look at yourself deeply. But I assure you, that the ability to look UP is more than worth the pain.

                  [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                  So the reddit admins stole your sub? Are you still a mod on it?

                  [–]StBlops2cel_is_Lord 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  I modded several extremely based subs, and they were all nuked, and my password suddenly didn't work anymore. No reason, warning, or explanation. Reddit es muy homo.

                  [–]ISaidWhatISaid 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  These mods were well connected with admin team and the morning after i woke up to my account being temporarily suspended.

                  Were these people with connections to Reddit Admins that got you banned perhaps any of the already known League Trolls?

                  [–]Soloninja 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  Welcome to the community we have all kinds of people here from alt right to alt left and even libertarian communities as well. Have fun in the free speech area.

                  [–]runtis 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  Welcome! I look forward to more Asia Pacific posts.

                  [–]iraelmossadreddit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  how did you hear about did you read a post mentioning it?

                  also, the amount of admins they have is insane. i wonder if there is something more going on than them just being random people they hired to be admins...

                  edit: maybe israeli student interships? sorry I had to throw somethign about israel in there...

                  check out this fat cat


                  "indiana college israel public affairs committee"

                  [–]SNCA_Furweeb 0 insightful - 2 fun0 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                  This is Fake news, no Flip could ever speak english this proficiently.