What do we do with people when industry/labour is fully or significantly automated?

submitted by [deleted] from self.debatealtright

This is something that I've been pondering on for a while.

I imagine by at least the 2030s or 2040s, most industries from software development to farming will at least be partially automated and the labour needed in them will be cut sharply (meaning mass unemployment). The common answer with what to do with these people is either UBI or "just retrain them", neither of which I oppose in principle but can see problems with both.

In regards to "just retrain them", the obvious answer is retrain them into what? Firstly, jobs will be continuously getting automated to the point of reducing or even eliminating the need for human labour in those industries. Secondly, ignoring the prior issue, it is rather naive to imagine you can turn low-skilled labourers into a high-skilled technical workers.

On the point of UBI, while it would probably solve the issue of how people would meet their needs if implemented without issues, there is the case that it would just leave a large mass of people with nothing practical to do. Using Maslow's hierarchy as my measure, I assume it would provide enough for people to meet their basic living needs (shelter, warmth, hunger) and also more materialistic consumerist needs but drawing from how people are in a generally similar scenario today I fail to see how it would meet people's psychological needs for fulfilment and actualisation. If anything, I think this will accelerate this issues of a modern hedonistic-individualistic society especially in regards to decadences such as sloth, promiscuity and gluttony which in themselves cause issues which fail to allow the fulfilment of psychological needs. I know some argue people would be more free to pursue creative and intellectual activities, but do people really expect that most people are going to become amateur scholars or artists doing some productive and fulfilling hobby?

You could argue a cultural change to a more "conservative" society, such as religious or fascist-style one, could mitigate the above but I'm sceptical. Labour is generally a part of the productive elements of these societies, and what else would they be doing outside of that and duties such as prayer?

Finally, I know one response could be simply "don't mass automate" or "don't automate at all" but I don't buy this. I don't think Ludditism will ever be something conceivable, there will always be the motive for a sentient society to technologically advance and automation is always an inevitability to reduce the division, inefficiency and complexity of labour.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? In an automated society, is decadence the only path?

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[–]YORAMRWWhite nationalist, eugenicist 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Eugenics. Implement a basic income, or extended welfare, to cover everyone who's permanently out of work due to automation, but only allow people who are still economically productive (or otherwise have something of great value to offer to society) to reproduce.

If this sounds extreme, it's the only way to sustain a society where most low-skilled labor is automated, and even then it probably won't be enough to make up for the pace at which labor will become automated.

Eugenics is the way forward anyways, even if automation wasn't a thing. It would allow us to become smarter than the smartest individuals of every other race, thus giving us an economic and strategic advantage over other races and civilizations, it would make the average white person as physically attractive as the most attractive white models are currently, it would drastically reduce crime rates and increase social cohesion, and the increase in scientists and engineers would make it far easier for us to get rid of disease and eventually reach for the stars.

[–]Oingo 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

If anything, our side are the ones who need automation the most. Automate the necessities, allow people to pursue their true passions, and use the benefits of automation to provide for infrastructure and basic needs.

However, as most of us know, all this can only be achieved in an ethnically homogeneous, high trust society. This is the future we're all fighting for.

[–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is simply insanity, indifference or the height of malice to flood the US with low skilled workers when 90% of manual labor will be done by robots in a few decades. I know people have been saying this for 100 years but anyone familiar with the field knows it's finally coming true. Blacks are being completely squeezed out of any jobs beyond entertainers and token intellects. This whole summer of BLM misdirection, in fact the entire Trump era, was wasted when we could/should have been engaging Blacks in anti-immigration protests along with Whites. If Trump had called for a Black/White (any MAGA type) march on Washington to demand less immigration he would have won in the biggest landslide since forever.

But Trump was never MAGA, he was always MIGA.

[–]LetssavethefirsworldReturn to Jesus 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If half the jobs are automated away then all our wives can stay home. It will be amazing for people, more time spent with our loved ones

[–]akkordeonplayer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

And expose more women to spousal abuse with no means of escape-- not going to happen without a fight.

[–]LetssavethefirsworldReturn to Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They can get a divorce and then take half the husband's money. Spousal abuse is extremely expensive for husbands

[–]akkordeonplayer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That’s not the way it is in every country, state and county.

[–]LetssavethefirsworldReturn to Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fair enough, but I'm mostly talking aboutWestern (first world) nations

[–]Intuit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Human wants are infinite. There will always be things that humans want other humans doing.

On the other hand, what if automation became decentralized so that everyone owned their own automated things? That solves the issue of having to pay a monopoly to get things from their massive robot farms.

[–]noseburp 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Soylent green.

[–]RM-Goetbbels 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The same thing that we've been doing for decades. Yes, this is already happening.

In the late 70's and early 80's the auto plants used tons of labor but as labor and benefit costs increased they moved toward automation and importation.

Each engine was more or less hand built, every door was lifted and bolted on and each car was hand painted. All of those jobs were automated. ALL OF THEM.

So what they do now is a two tier pay system. One at the old wage and one at a sort of minimum wage.

That's right folks, there is a number above your head that equates to how much bullshit your worth. No matter if you're a factory worker or a desk jockey. Eventually when you cost more than another option they go with the cheaper more reliable version.

You did this.

[–]Minedwe 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In an automated society, new jobs will either present themselves or have to be made. After all, the government can always employ unskilled/low-skill workers, having them build/repair state equipment (i.e. military and police equipment and the like) or employing them in construction and maintenance of state facilities/projects.

[–]astronautrob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You should listen to Allison McDowell. This is what the fourth industrial revolution is all about and she breaks it down beautifully.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Allison McDowell

I will look at them. Do you have recommended videos or speeches to start with?

[–]astronautrob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. Originally I heard her on the podcast "The Higher side chats" episode on Dec 17th 2020 Allison McDowell "Humane capital markets, predatory phikathropy, &the gamified world". Sorry for some reason I can't find the episode number. Usually listen to that on stitcher but could probably be found anywhere Really good and only an hour long so pretty digestible to get in to her stuff. The best tho if have the time is https://www.bitchute.com/video/52pElFCU6LgC/ This video is a bit longer but she breaks it down like a beast. My feelings are she has a really good take on what's going on &explains it well which is the biggest thing because what these people are talking about (she's not the only one) is confusing to me at least.