you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]magnora7 14 insightful - 5 fun14 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 5 fun -  (94 children)

We don't have account-specific rate-limiting...

[–]christnmusicreleases 11 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 5 fun -  (93 children)

Not implemented technologically, but you required that I post no more than 8 submissions per 24 hour period or an account ban. Same totalitarianism, different implementation. I thought this site was meant for a diversity of opinion, it seems that in reality you only allow free speech that you care for.

[–]magnora7 19 insightful - 4 fun19 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 4 fun -  (91 children)

Yeah it's not meant for one shill to hijack the whole front page. The same rule applies to everyone.

You're trying to manufacture drama against the site to drive others away, and it's not a good look.

[–]christnmusicreleases 17 insightful - 6 fun17 insightful - 5 fun18 insightful - 6 fun -  (88 children)

"Shill" is an abusive perjorative used to describe normal users. I'm not hijacking anything, if it gets to the front page, it's due to upvotes. Nor do I care to push any agenda, I just like interesting news.

Why are you so afraid that others might have a voice? It seems like you are purposely nerfing this site to ensure Reddit and other mainstream sites dominate. I hardly contribute to the subs I have created here any more due to the artificial limitation you put on me (and not on other users).

The other thing that irks me, is the lack of exposure for those small subs that are just beginning. It creates a chilling effect and in the end most people end up posting to the main subs because they know their posts will go unseen otherwise. The default subs being shown for those not logged in is really limiting.

[–]magnora7 15 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 3 fun -  (86 children)

I just told you it applies equally to everyone.

Saidit does have shills, and they do hijack the front page. This has to be dealt with. Your ignorance of the problem does not make it disappear.

Nor should one user be able to take over the front page. This is a community, not one person's sounding board.

[–]christnmusicreleases 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (66 children)

Well if you look at the diversity of my posts, you will see that it is not a shill account. I engage with other posters and respectfully agree or disagree with viewpoints. I'm not trying to smother anyone.

Treating me like I'm a shill when I'm an enthusiast is like a car company limiting a driver's mileage by turning off the ignition if they travel often.

I see Saidit turning into Reddit very quickly, in the same way when the CCP bought into it with ownership. Ever since then the moderation was overbearing, and free speech was crushed.

[–]magnora7 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (52 children)

Your posts actually have pretty poor diversity, imo.

But the point is, this is a community. This is not your personal soap box. 8 a day is more than enough.

If you find this overbearing, I'd suggest you've not really used too many forums

[–]christnmusicreleases 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (51 children)

Then I suggest you put that limitation on all users or admit that you're the shill here. What is it with leftists? Free speech for me but not for thee.

If you could only speak eight times a day, would that be free speech? I didn't use Reddit like that, why would I expect Saidit to be less free than them?

It's all in the algorithm. You can tweak it if you want to push a certain diversity. You don't need to muzzle your userbase, especially the leaders who are building subs and regularly posting and engaging with other users. Look at yourself in the mirror. Your posts aren't much different than mine, a bit of politics, a bit of technology, a bit of humor, and a few serious posts.

[–]magnora7 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (33 children)

It is on all users, I already said that twice

It's like you're deliberately not paying attention to what I'm saying, and instead just want to cause trouble.

[–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (32 children)

If that is indeed the case, then it should be hardcoded into the system, lest some users "be more equal" than others.

Selective enforcement is the problem: if it's not coded in, potential for discrimination is unlimited, which is exactly the problem with Reddit. Admins are not going to impartially police the limit of free speech of users they agree with.

Also it should be stated clearly into the rules of the site. I had no such issue with you before.

This is clearly lazy coding, IMHO. You could simply limit the maximum number of posts per user featured on the front, and let them post to their heart's content without interfering with your diversity quota. I don't care if I'm not on your featured list, but I think my posts all have a right to be seen.

Why should I have to wait 3 hours to post breaking news that's really important for a particular sub?

[–]JasonCarswell 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (16 children)

I agree that the limitation must be for everyone, including me. I've not heard of an 8/day limit until now. I do not like it at all. If anything, this is more arbitrary M7 bullshit. IF there's a limit to be imposed, the community should vote on it in /s/SaidItSurveys.

Further, the voting must be managed and prepared - openly. As I've previously pushed for countless times, if there was special announcements in the header or sidebox people would be notified of important community news rather than stumbling upon them by chance in /s/all - easily overlooked if you miss a day or few.

Failing that, we could announce a date for the election, at least a week in advance, tweak the criteria up to the election with community feedback, then have the election. This is a better way to social-manage the community - openly.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

IF there's a limit to be imposed, the community should vote on it in /s/SaidItSurveys.

Why? So the shills can vote?

8 is every bit as arbitrary as whatever number is voted for.

I'm struggling to identify successful democracies in 2021.

If Saidit was a democracy then it would have been ruined long ago.

Nobody cares about the site as much as M7. He created it.

Why should anyone else get to decide?

Benevolent dictatorship in an era of malevolence.

I support maximal freedom, but you can't win wars with bickering democratic allies.

We don't have unified allies. Quite the opposite.

[–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

I am with you on this 100%.

I don't like the limitation, I think it's an atrocity, but if it exists it should be applied equally.

The problem with Saidit is that average user interaction is low, when compared to other Reddit alternatives. I guess /u/magnora7 intends to keep it that way.

The much better way and more common sense method of managing things is to allow unlimited posting, but make it much harder for a single user to dominate the front page in any meaningful sense. Allow everything to show up in /r/all, and don't be selective about which subs appear there.

Which is what the majority of Reddit clones do, I do not see any advantage of keeping this censorship mechanism in the rules (on- or off-book).

I could care less if any of my posts showed up on the front page, I just want my content to be posted to relevant subs and be seen on some aggregate page on the site so that it's not missed.

[–]Jesus 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

You're not a shill but you're making yourself believe you are a victim of shill shaming.

Saidit turning into Reddit very quickly, in the same way when the CCP bought into it with ownership. Ever since then the moderation was overbearing, and free speech was crushed.

I respectfully disagree on so many levels. I understand that alt. Mossad waves feed such propaganda but saidit is plainly not what you say it has become or will it ever head in that direction.

Secondly, reddit's ownership and largest shareholders are Zionists such as Newhouse. The CCP nor ZioCons are going to bring saidit down. But if you feel a critique against you is akin to saidit's downfall then find a new place.

[–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

The Chinese did buy out a percentage of Reddit, and that is when the hammer went down on /r/The_Donald and subsequently all subreddits later on. Henceforth Ruqqus exploded, Saidit grew, and Poal became known by the masses.

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Because it's just a matter of time is exactly why we NEED to consider our future. I have a concept that may solve MANY of our problems, with or without M7 - hopefully with. I'll be checking out for a couple days to draft it up as my first priority, after today's drama dies down.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

Shills don't have to be paid, dude. You could be raised a shill, in fact, most people who buy into the left/right charade are shills.

[–]christnmusicreleases 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (8 children)

Speaking from experience?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

Yes, as would you if you would only wisen up. I was raised as a modern hardcore conservative christian, as I expect you were. You are Zionists and don't even recognize it. You are devil-worshipers and child mutilators. Good hearts, better than the left, this I cannot disagree with, and I am speaking from experience here. However, liberals shill and admit to it. You'll shill and deny it. You don't even realize how much of a Zionist Trump is because you fall for psychological ploys. That is a sign of a weak mind, one who will peddle bullshit even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

[–]christnmusicreleases 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

I'm anti-Zionist, pro-Palestinian, and wish Jews would give back the land they stole to the Palestinians.

[–]Jesus 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (12 children)

Bots and shills number far more on internet subs and on twitter and elsewhere than people would like to admit.

[–]magnora7 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

I used to think it was like 10% shills and bots, but now I realize it's more like 50-80%, and getting worse. The internet is truly a mess because of it. It's just like how the telephone system is a mess because of all the robocalls. And the mail system is a mess because of all the advertising spam.

I really dislike all of it, our communication systems are systematically hijacked by people trying to exploit and abuse, and the people who own the communications systems either encourage it or turn a blind eye. It's upsetting

[–]Jesus 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

No, it is far more than 10%. The wild west was the internet and the powers did not suspect that it would be freely avaliable to all people. The goal was them to give it to all who want it but at a censored, heavily controlled cost. Bots are rather easy to program and replicate over and over again in more sophisticated way and shills are in it for the money; and where congress members are easily lobbied by a few thousand, shills are as well, even moreso when foreign power agendas are at play.

Yup, landline was fine for many years, updated to VOIP, was forced to, and now I get robo calls and scams multiple times a day. The fix? Buy an app, sell your private data so a company can block the calls for you. An easy security niche market that corporations will use to their benefit.

[–]magnora7 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

Yup even email is filled with spam. Literally every communication system except just talking to someone face-to-face. And even then they can parrot spam without realizing it because ads have become such a central part of our culture. Everyone knows who Captain Crunch is even though he only exists to sell cereal. Our culture has been largely redesigned around merchandise like this, and it's caused an alienation of humans from the culture they consume. I think that could be the root cause of all this depression and mental illness that is so widespread in modern developed civilization.

Countries like Spain have made billboards illegal. I think this is the type of thinking is good. We need to get away from this swamp of advertising and communications system abuse (and the resulting emotional abuse from all the scams and so on) that we're all become mired in. I think it's a very serious problem that's basically being completely ignored in the public discourse. Basically because the public discourse is being led by those same communications networks. They'd never rat themselves out to the public.

It's a bizarre problem that humanity faces at this moment in history. We almost need a revolution of our communications systems, to remake it for the public good rather than for advertising and scammers to abuse like it's the wild west. The saturation of misuse of these systems has become unstable, bad effects are bound to happen because of how it affects people psychologically and how it affects how they view communication. It's a very bad problem that at its worst may result in many global cultures being hijacked with the intent to destroy/reshape them, but many people can't see the full scope of the issue.

Every human is basically being hit with a firehose of information these days, and it's sink or swim. Those best able to filter through it, or ignore it, or transcend it, will fare the best. But many people are just caught in the torrents of shill-generated nonsense (or computer-generated), many without even realizing how inorganic it truly is. But a lot of people are learning quickly because the abuse is so common. But this also trains each man to be an island, and to trust no one. One person with a computer-generated scam, can make a million people distrust their neighbors a little bit more. I find that very creepy to have this sort of amplified power available to paid sociopaths. But what kills me is most people don't even realize this is happening. If we could at least see how we're being tricked we could overcome it. But a lot of people just haven't connected the dots yet for whatever reason, but I think that will change because this stuff is becoming increasingly known.

[–]StillLessons 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

ˆTHIS!

The problem you discuss is the single greatest problem we currently face as a species. Our information sources are now so corrupted by powerful groups stating "what they want the world to be" rather than "what the world is", but claiming that this is what the world is. As such, anyone attached to these sources (and I seriously doubt there are more than a few thousand people on the entire planet truly unaffected by this stream of concentrated garbage) has become literally unable to discern any more what is true beyond the very immediate moment in which they live. I know I can't, and I have been given excellent analytical tools as part of the life I have lived.

Excellent comment. Worth its own thread/article, as a matter of fact.

[–]Jesus 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That's the caveat of an unsustainable retain ecomomy. Boom and bust consumerism keeps the economy afloat before the bubble pops and the banks re-inject credit into the economy. Notice the uptick in banking and credit card advertisements? That's not a coincidence. You got bills to pay, so you're going to work, work, work everyday. REAL Catholics (not Jesuits) understand this as the antithesis to Christ. That life should not be a debt to credit — merely working under the wage slave system. Life is more than just work. It is to better ourselves spiritually, religiously and strive to help others less fortunate than ourselves. But this becomes a rarer and rarer occurrence when entertainment takes up lay time, if one even has such time. And even if one works tirelessly to achieve his or her goal of property ownership, a cyclical doldrum could rob that person of what he earned with his hands. As someone who worked in agriculture, I can tell you from first hand experience, that the city capitalists and neoliberals hate the the self-sustaining farmer and have sought to burden this sector with debt and poverty. There's been an epidemic of food stamps in the farming community for this very reason, despite farmers working from sunrise to sunset.

Countries like Spain have made billboards illegal. I think this is the type of thinking is good. We need to get away from this swamp of advertising and communications system abuse (and the resulting emotional abuse from all the scams and so on) that we're all become mired in. I think it's a very serious problem that's basically being completely ignored in the public discourse. Basically because the public discourse is being led by those same communications networks. They'd never rat themselves out to the public.

Sure, that is a great idea but in the US the purse gets the final say. Big money will not allow their advertisements to be thwarted because it might help ease the mental illness plight. In fact, over spending is something they desire not only for the products they sell but for the economy as a whole.

Deep down inside, if everyone awoke to consumerism and rejected materialism, focusing more on self-sustainability and spirituality, the entire economy would collapse. The people in power today, if that were to happen, would fund all kinds of revolutionary action to thwart grassroots movements.

But again, it's our individual choices that matter most. For if we can reject such consumerism, so cannot someone you know. Unfortunately, with the advent of TV and social media, stupid trends rule the airwaves.

It's a bizarre problem that humanity faces at this moment in history.

Indeed, and alien to our evolution. Unfortunately, most would reject such immaterialism.

We almost need a revolution of our communications systems, to remake it for the public good rather than for advertising and scammers to abuse like it's the wild west.

Foremost would be to revoke streamlining federal laws to towns. Second would be to have town corp. have open source decentralized paper ballot voting. I think all such communitarian ideas for the purpose of society as a whole should start locally. The consensus today is that federal law, easily lobbied by the interests of big money, can supersede town law. And even today the laws of the town corporation are highly centralized and rely on the dreaded mammonistic budget view. The state then increases direct and indirect taxes to pay off that interest.

The saturation of misuse of these systems has become unstable, bad effects are bound to happen because of how it affects people psychologically and how it affects how they view communication.

Consider the aspirations of the WEF and world governor alliance. Yes, our own governors are part of an international agenda. The entire responsible stakeholder schtick is to open up niche markets where humans thought no man should go. That is to make you and I and our bodies and health a commodity to be traded on markets and profited off of. That is the real goal of 5g, IoT, the 4th industrial revolution — processes which could have benefited humanity. Endless 'progress' (devolution) for the interests of big capital and the Malthusian doctrinists all rapped up in responsible stakeholder capitalism. In the end, it will suck everyone dry and there will be nothing left but to seek a higher power, something immaterial.

That is their goal, no? By 2030, "you'll own nothing, have no privacy and be happy!" Hopefully, nobody buys into that viewpoint because this consumer culture we have now, will be transformed into a dystopian rentiers' crazy house, where data generation will monopolize the movement of money.

It's a very bad problem that at its worst may result in many global cultures being hijacked with the intent to destroy/reshape them, but many people can't see the full scope of the issue.

One big international family under consumerism and materialism forever. It's like the movie They Live. They know you don't need it but they tickle your senses so that you desire to have it. I'm sure they use other techniques like the head to skull invention, which I believe they had installed somewhere in NYC for sometime, which would use specific-frequencies to sell you things but it sounded like the ad was emanating from your head rather than from a loud speaker far away. Scary stuff. I think more and more people see through all of this but then again I'm not so sure because less and less people read, if at all. I came to have this viewpoint because of Church friends and because of Jesus.

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Conclusion, mammon rules in this world. But we can always fight locally and many people have won this way.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Bots and shills number far more on internet subs and on twitter and elsewhere than most people would like to admit could imagine.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Saidit does have shills, and they do hijack the front page. This has to be dealt with. Your ignorance of the problem does not make it disappear.

Nor should one user be able to take over the front page. This is a community, not one person's sounding board.

This.

[–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Claiming that anyone who disagrees with you is a shill is not being intellectually honest, though.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Claiming that anyone who disagrees with you is a shill is not being intellectually honest, though.

I don't believe anyone is claiming that "anyone" who disagrees with them is a shill.

Although, I don't think it's controversial to suggest that shills are increasingly attacking the site more frequently than ever.

I'm not attacking your submissions either.

[–]Node 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Trolls and shills both. And they've managed to stir up unrest among some of the regular users too. Of course there are some 'imperfections', but creating a lot of drama to focus on those just makes things a little worse. Not to go all Rodney King, but...

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    I like what you post, but M7 does make valid points too.

    [–]jykylsin2034 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

    Rather than just going all defensive and attacking good people who have been here a while you should just take a step back, chill, and think about what we have to say. When in doubt the best policy is always to not delete or hide something.

    [–]magnora7 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    When in doubt the best policy is always to not delete or hide something.

    Yup that's how I do it.