you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]christnmusicreleases 17 insightful - 6 fun17 insightful - 5 fun18 insightful - 6 fun -  (88 children)

"Shill" is an abusive perjorative used to describe normal users. I'm not hijacking anything, if it gets to the front page, it's due to upvotes. Nor do I care to push any agenda, I just like interesting news.

Why are you so afraid that others might have a voice? It seems like you are purposely nerfing this site to ensure Reddit and other mainstream sites dominate. I hardly contribute to the subs I have created here any more due to the artificial limitation you put on me (and not on other users).

The other thing that irks me, is the lack of exposure for those small subs that are just beginning. It creates a chilling effect and in the end most people end up posting to the main subs because they know their posts will go unseen otherwise. The default subs being shown for those not logged in is really limiting.

[–]magnora7 15 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 3 fun -  (86 children)

I just told you it applies equally to everyone.

Saidit does have shills, and they do hijack the front page. This has to be dealt with. Your ignorance of the problem does not make it disappear.

Nor should one user be able to take over the front page. This is a community, not one person's sounding board.

[–]christnmusicreleases 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (66 children)

Well if you look at the diversity of my posts, you will see that it is not a shill account. I engage with other posters and respectfully agree or disagree with viewpoints. I'm not trying to smother anyone.

Treating me like I'm a shill when I'm an enthusiast is like a car company limiting a driver's mileage by turning off the ignition if they travel often.

I see Saidit turning into Reddit very quickly, in the same way when the CCP bought into it with ownership. Ever since then the moderation was overbearing, and free speech was crushed.

[–]magnora7 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (52 children)

Your posts actually have pretty poor diversity, imo.

But the point is, this is a community. This is not your personal soap box. 8 a day is more than enough.

If you find this overbearing, I'd suggest you've not really used too many forums

[–]christnmusicreleases 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (51 children)

Then I suggest you put that limitation on all users or admit that you're the shill here. What is it with leftists? Free speech for me but not for thee.

If you could only speak eight times a day, would that be free speech? I didn't use Reddit like that, why would I expect Saidit to be less free than them?

It's all in the algorithm. You can tweak it if you want to push a certain diversity. You don't need to muzzle your userbase, especially the leaders who are building subs and regularly posting and engaging with other users. Look at yourself in the mirror. Your posts aren't much different than mine, a bit of politics, a bit of technology, a bit of humor, and a few serious posts.

[–]magnora7 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (33 children)

It is on all users, I already said that twice

It's like you're deliberately not paying attention to what I'm saying, and instead just want to cause trouble.

[–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (32 children)

If that is indeed the case, then it should be hardcoded into the system, lest some users "be more equal" than others.

Selective enforcement is the problem: if it's not coded in, potential for discrimination is unlimited, which is exactly the problem with Reddit. Admins are not going to impartially police the limit of free speech of users they agree with.

Also it should be stated clearly into the rules of the site. I had no such issue with you before.

This is clearly lazy coding, IMHO. You could simply limit the maximum number of posts per user featured on the front, and let them post to their heart's content without interfering with your diversity quota. I don't care if I'm not on your featured list, but I think my posts all have a right to be seen.

Why should I have to wait 3 hours to post breaking news that's really important for a particular sub?

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (31 children)

You can write the code then and we'll gladly use it.

You realize we're doing all this stuff for free, right? I don't have infinite time to be re-writing code for edge-cases to accomplish things we can already easily do.

[–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (30 children)

You've already branded me as the perjorative "shill," do you really want a "shill" hijacking your glorious algorithm?

Are you really that inept a coder? You have created and maintain a site, you set an informal rule that nobody knows, and you can't just code it in? Or perhaps you're afraid if people know the rules, they wouldn't be your userbase anymore.

The very least you could do, if you're too lazy to limit code to 1 post per 3 hours per user, which is super easy, is to write it up in the rules, and enforce it among the entire userbase equally (which in the end you claim to be doing the last point, I think that is much harder than coding it, as the code only needs to be written once, enforcement is infinite potentially).

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (29 children)

I never called you a shill. I said these are things shills do, which is a true statement.

You think it's "super easy" but you've obviously never looked at the codebase. If you could code it, we will use it. But of course you won't, because it's actually not easy at all.

You call me lazy, but I do hours of work a day for this website.

[–]JasonCarswell 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (16 children)

I agree that the limitation must be for everyone, including me. I've not heard of an 8/day limit until now. I do not like it at all. If anything, this is more arbitrary M7 bullshit. IF there's a limit to be imposed, the community should vote on it in /s/SaidItSurveys.

Further, the voting must be managed and prepared - openly. As I've previously pushed for countless times, if there was special announcements in the header or sidebox people would be notified of important community news rather than stumbling upon them by chance in /s/all - easily overlooked if you miss a day or few.

Failing that, we could announce a date for the election, at least a week in advance, tweak the criteria up to the election with community feedback, then have the election. This is a better way to social-manage the community - openly.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

IF there's a limit to be imposed, the community should vote on it in /s/SaidItSurveys.

Why? So the shills can vote?

8 is every bit as arbitrary as whatever number is voted for.

I'm struggling to identify successful democracies in 2021.

If Saidit was a democracy then it would have been ruined long ago.

Nobody cares about the site as much as M7. He created it.

Why should anyone else get to decide?

Benevolent dictatorship in an era of malevolence.

I support maximal freedom, but you can't win wars with bickering democratic allies.

We don't have unified allies. Quite the opposite.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Don't give up so soon. There are ways to figure things out that are more open and fair.

Sure, shills are a valid problem. Maybe filter out users under 8 months old, as it's come up that the STABs now date back that far. Then add a filter for rarely used accounts suddenly coming to life to vote. New folks will be disenfranchised but you'll have a more authentic number.

Yes, democracy is the tyranny of the majority. I still believe in worker cooperatives, a much lesser evil than unions or corporations.

I am against democracy for more important things on SaidIt. I would never want Chipit elected to the trusted-team, among others.

M7 could NOT have done it without D3.

Ask DioJr how benevolent he is.

We don't have unified allies. Quite the opposite.

You've lost me.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

We don't have unified allies. Quite the opposite.

You've lost me.

United we stand, etc.

I doubt Saidit could be considered united.

I doubt those selected as jurors would remain united after about a month.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

As I said elsewhere under this OP to M7:

" The older active problematic users like DioJr, the ABCs, and even me or christnmusicreleases if you so wish, deserve open transparent trials by a trusted-team with respected wisdom. You pick them, let people vote for them, or whatever. I respect folks like AXXA, christnmusicreleases, D3, DeWho, Fred, happysmash, Hibiki, jamesK, Jesus, Larry, M7, Musky, Orangutan, TAM, Tom, zyxzevn, and many more friends who aren't highlighted on /s/all right now that I know with varying degrees of certainty. Your list may be different than my short sample list here. Between them I'm quite sure your respected team can come to a conclusion with minimal drama in a timely fashion (NOT endless), save you the headache, and distribute the target and blame that's all on you now as judge, jury, and executioner. "

You are in that list of what I'd call good ones, even if of different character. Some I don't know as well as others and may need to be removed in time while others may be added by being worthy. Are there any in that list you would most likely not be civil with?

[–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

I am with you on this 100%.

I don't like the limitation, I think it's an atrocity, but if it exists it should be applied equally.

The problem with Saidit is that average user interaction is low, when compared to other Reddit alternatives. I guess /u/magnora7 intends to keep it that way.

The much better way and more common sense method of managing things is to allow unlimited posting, but make it much harder for a single user to dominate the front page in any meaningful sense. Allow everything to show up in /r/all, and don't be selective about which subs appear there.

Which is what the majority of Reddit clones do, I do not see any advantage of keeping this censorship mechanism in the rules (on- or off-book).

I could care less if any of my posts showed up on the front page, I just want my content to be posted to relevant subs and be seen on some aggregate page on the site so that it's not missed.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

The problem with Saidit is that average user interaction is low,

I can't speak to other alternatives, but I agree. I would hope for a more interactive community.

I have some ideas that might make this happen. Stay tuned.

The much better way and more common sense method of managing things is to allow unlimited posting, but make it much harder for a single user to dominate the front page in any meaningful sense. Allow everything to show up in /r/all, and don't be selective about which subs appear there.

This is a good idea too. I have many other variant ideas on how to curate the front page. All of them require technical skills I don't have.

I could care less if any of my posts showed up on the front page, I just want my content to be posted to relevant subs and be seen on some aggregate page on the site so that it's not missed.

I agree, for some things. Somethings deserve a chance to be promoted rather than just topically "filed away". The filing is important though - especially if we develop bridges to other sites like WikiSpooks or other music wikis or archives or whatever resources.

[–]christnmusicreleases 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

The main point here is to put as much power in the hands of the end user as possible. By empowering users, we can give them the ability to filter or control any content they want or don't want to see.

Only in the case of egregious abuse should users be banned or groups removed. I suppose you could remove certain groups from the front page that are known for extremely edgy content but not to the extend of deserving a site ban (which could be added back on a per-user basis by subscribing). The emphasis should be minimal moderation with effective filtering.

In the end, a good system will propel Saidit forward or relegate it to the fate of a dead site. You can't let it remain stale.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed! You sound like a big part of my MetaVote idea. Metatags and filters are key. Big data has it, but we don't - yet.

[–]Jesus 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

You're not a shill but you're making yourself believe you are a victim of shill shaming.

Saidit turning into Reddit very quickly, in the same way when the CCP bought into it with ownership. Ever since then the moderation was overbearing, and free speech was crushed.

I respectfully disagree on so many levels. I understand that alt. Mossad waves feed such propaganda but saidit is plainly not what you say it has become or will it ever head in that direction.

Secondly, reddit's ownership and largest shareholders are Zionists such as Newhouse. The CCP nor ZioCons are going to bring saidit down. But if you feel a critique against you is akin to saidit's downfall then find a new place.

[–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

The Chinese did buy out a percentage of Reddit, and that is when the hammer went down on /r/The_Donald and subsequently all subreddits later on. Henceforth Ruqqus exploded, Saidit grew, and Poal became known by the masses.

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Because it's just a matter of time is exactly why we NEED to consider our future. I have a concept that may solve MANY of our problems, with or without M7 - hopefully with. I'll be checking out for a couple days to draft it up as my first priority, after today's drama dies down.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

Shills don't have to be paid, dude. You could be raised a shill, in fact, most people who buy into the left/right charade are shills.

[–]christnmusicreleases 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (8 children)

Speaking from experience?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

Yes, as would you if you would only wisen up. I was raised as a modern hardcore conservative christian, as I expect you were. You are Zionists and don't even recognize it. You are devil-worshipers and child mutilators. Good hearts, better than the left, this I cannot disagree with, and I am speaking from experience here. However, liberals shill and admit to it. You'll shill and deny it. You don't even realize how much of a Zionist Trump is because you fall for psychological ploys. That is a sign of a weak mind, one who will peddle bullshit even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

[–]christnmusicreleases 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

I'm anti-Zionist, pro-Palestinian, and wish Jews would give back the land they stole to the Palestinians.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Great. Did you vote for Trump?

[–]christnmusicreleases 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

No, I didn't. Nor did I vote for Biden, or Hillary, or Obama, or Bush, or Bill, or Bush Sr., or any of those pieces of trash.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

So why have we argued many times concerning whether or not Trump would drain the swamp? Or concerning the two parties and their involvement in degrading modern society? Why do you post right-leaning posts that are in fact in support of QAnon theories or views? Why do you defend Trump? We have argued about these things many times, dude, and you've defended Trump every single time. Every. Single. Time.

Your main complaints are that he surrounded himself with Zionists, then you'd act as though that was just a mistake on his part, and not a willing decision. I am legitimately surprised to hear that you did not vote for Trump seeing as how many times we have argued about Trump and his lies concerning draining the swamp, but that is just as likely of a truth as socks not voting for Biden. Edit: Don't try and backpeddle, dude. You have defended him many times on this website. Have you recently come to grips with reality?

[–]Jesus 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (12 children)

Bots and shills number far more on internet subs and on twitter and elsewhere than people would like to admit.

[–]magnora7 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

I used to think it was like 10% shills and bots, but now I realize it's more like 50-80%, and getting worse. The internet is truly a mess because of it. It's just like how the telephone system is a mess because of all the robocalls. And the mail system is a mess because of all the advertising spam.

I really dislike all of it, our communication systems are systematically hijacked by people trying to exploit and abuse, and the people who own the communications systems either encourage it or turn a blind eye. It's upsetting

[–]Jesus 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

No, it is far more than 10%. The wild west was the internet and the powers did not suspect that it would be freely avaliable to all people. The goal was them to give it to all who want it but at a censored, heavily controlled cost. Bots are rather easy to program and replicate over and over again in more sophisticated way and shills are in it for the money; and where congress members are easily lobbied by a few thousand, shills are as well, even moreso when foreign power agendas are at play.

Yup, landline was fine for many years, updated to VOIP, was forced to, and now I get robo calls and scams multiple times a day. The fix? Buy an app, sell your private data so a company can block the calls for you. An easy security niche market that corporations will use to their benefit.

[–]magnora7 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

Yup even email is filled with spam. Literally every communication system except just talking to someone face-to-face. And even then they can parrot spam without realizing it because ads have become such a central part of our culture. Everyone knows who Captain Crunch is even though he only exists to sell cereal. Our culture has been largely redesigned around merchandise like this, and it's caused an alienation of humans from the culture they consume. I think that could be the root cause of all this depression and mental illness that is so widespread in modern developed civilization.

Countries like Spain have made billboards illegal. I think this is the type of thinking is good. We need to get away from this swamp of advertising and communications system abuse (and the resulting emotional abuse from all the scams and so on) that we're all become mired in. I think it's a very serious problem that's basically being completely ignored in the public discourse. Basically because the public discourse is being led by those same communications networks. They'd never rat themselves out to the public.

It's a bizarre problem that humanity faces at this moment in history. We almost need a revolution of our communications systems, to remake it for the public good rather than for advertising and scammers to abuse like it's the wild west. The saturation of misuse of these systems has become unstable, bad effects are bound to happen because of how it affects people psychologically and how it affects how they view communication. It's a very bad problem that at its worst may result in many global cultures being hijacked with the intent to destroy/reshape them, but many people can't see the full scope of the issue.

Every human is basically being hit with a firehose of information these days, and it's sink or swim. Those best able to filter through it, or ignore it, or transcend it, will fare the best. But many people are just caught in the torrents of shill-generated nonsense (or computer-generated), many without even realizing how inorganic it truly is. But a lot of people are learning quickly because the abuse is so common. But this also trains each man to be an island, and to trust no one. One person with a computer-generated scam, can make a million people distrust their neighbors a little bit more. I find that very creepy to have this sort of amplified power available to paid sociopaths. But what kills me is most people don't even realize this is happening. If we could at least see how we're being tricked we could overcome it. But a lot of people just haven't connected the dots yet for whatever reason, but I think that will change because this stuff is becoming increasingly known.

[–]StillLessons 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

ˆTHIS!

The problem you discuss is the single greatest problem we currently face as a species. Our information sources are now so corrupted by powerful groups stating "what they want the world to be" rather than "what the world is", but claiming that this is what the world is. As such, anyone attached to these sources (and I seriously doubt there are more than a few thousand people on the entire planet truly unaffected by this stream of concentrated garbage) has become literally unable to discern any more what is true beyond the very immediate moment in which they live. I know I can't, and I have been given excellent analytical tools as part of the life I have lived.

Excellent comment. Worth its own thread/article, as a matter of fact.

[–]magnora7 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

The problem you discuss is the single greatest problem we currently face as a species.

I think 90% of people would laugh and say it's not important, and 10 years ago I might've done the same, instead saying war was the problem or something. But this is what causes wars. If you study the rwandan genocide, the people did it because the radio stations encouraged this sort of thinking for over a decade leading up to the genocide! They were calling the 10% of the country "cockroaches" on public radio, over and over. Then when some political leader of the 90% was killed by a person from the 10%, it set off this huge genocide.

Most people do not begin to understand how powerful the media is.

has become literally unable to discern any more what is true beyond the very immediate moment in which they live.

Yes the confusion itself is a weapon. They use the confusion to disable people. You cannot make rational decisions if you do not trust any information, and are thus disabled from acting in meaningful ways.

"The first casualty of war is the truth" is a quote I thought was about misinformation, but I now realize is also about confusion. During a war, everyone is massively confused about everything all the time. This is the primary means by which people are kept in a deep fear/reactionary state of mind that in turn makes them easy to convert to violent soldiers. Whereas a deeply organized society that is highly predictable is very unlikely to go to war or be violent. People think it is war that causes disorder, but I am realizing it is perhaps disorder that creates war. Which means if someone wants war, they can manufacture chaos on the cultural level, which trickles down to the psychological level for the individual. This format of "information attack" or "cultural attack" through the media has become weaponized to a high degree in the last 40 years, and is on global hyper-speed with the perfection of hijacking internet forums becoming commonplace.

It's truly breathtaking in speed now. It feels like we are increasingly getting close to a juncture where people are going to have to wake up to this issue in a deep way. If we don't, we will become increasingly cattle-like, but herded by ideologies and emotions, rather than fences and dogs. It does make me worry about the future of humanity, because this does seem like a new beast compared to the disinformation and propaganda of the past. Although I guess people could probably say the same when the printing press was first developed. There were probably incredible amounts of propaganda books made by the only people who could afford printing presses, the wealthy. I'm sure many educated but poor people saw this wonderful tool, the printing press, being abused to promote false ideologies to stir up war and consolidate wealth. I am sure those regular people thought it was hopeless because of the sheer volume of propaganda being made compared to more genuine content, a situation we see on the internet today. But we overcame, and hundreds of years later for example the 1990s were pretty chill in the US. So it always ebbs and flows, even though at certain moments it looks pretty bad. I think the ebbs and flows are going faster and faster though, and becoming more coordinated globally due to the internet increasing the speed of culture spread.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]magnora7 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    I agree, it's dumb that culture is out of reach because of copyright law. Culture should be made by us, to represent us. Not be some immutable thing protected by law that no one can ever make use of for themselves.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    There is only one solution: To stop believing.

    Removing any and all beliefs means to not feed on "information" from outside in order to act and organize one's life and mind. The starting point should always be what somebody IS. Who are you? The reflex of answering with what you've done in the past, where you were, etc. is founded on belief. If you remove all that, then "Who are you?" becomes easy to answer, not necessarily with words, but certainly with actions.

    Somebody who stopped believing, who has destroyed the mechanics of belief within themselves, has no other compass than their personal identity, or "what you are". By using this actual identity as the compass, information can be classed, not as "believed to be true" and "believed to be false", but as "Meets my identity" or... not. As such, the possibility of "error" vanishes: by not acting and thinking out of the duality of true and false, but instead living by "I am, therefore..." no mistake can ever be made. One acts according to one's nature, and that's that.

    This has the huge advantage that such individuals cannot be manipulated or bamboozled. In some time, only such individuals will thrive and all others will be rendered more or less paralyzed and ineffective because of these problems you describe.

    One of the major advantages of this approach is that it is absolutely effective on an individual level, whereas any other set of measures to "change things" requires a certain degree of popular support, which is made difficult by the very problem you are seeking to fix...

    [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Interesting points. I agree we have to "return to our senses" in a very literal way. We need to get back to the basics of awareness of our immediate surroundings, and build our identities around that, rather than around ideologies from far-off places that are designed in many cases to manipulate you in to certain behaviors that are beneficial for those at the top. Whereas a self-generated culture will more often work for the self and the soul, rather than working against it.

    It's also probably one of those things where rather than trying to convince everyone by talking the talk, the most powerful conversion tool is to simply walk the walk, and other people can see it as an example. Preaching ideas is outdated in a way, because we are all swimming in ideas constantly. What's truly rare is a person actually doing exactly what they say, and saying what they do.

    [–]Jesus 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    That's the caveat of an unsustainable retain ecomomy. Boom and bust consumerism keeps the economy afloat before the bubble pops and the banks re-inject credit into the economy. Notice the uptick in banking and credit card advertisements? That's not a coincidence. You got bills to pay, so you're going to work, work, work everyday. REAL Catholics (not Jesuits) understand this as the antithesis to Christ. That life should not be a debt to credit — merely working under the wage slave system. Life is more than just work. It is to better ourselves spiritually, religiously and strive to help others less fortunate than ourselves. But this becomes a rarer and rarer occurrence when entertainment takes up lay time, if one even has such time. And even if one works tirelessly to achieve his or her goal of property ownership, a cyclical doldrum could rob that person of what he earned with his hands. As someone who worked in agriculture, I can tell you from first hand experience, that the city capitalists and neoliberals hate the the self-sustaining farmer and have sought to burden this sector with debt and poverty. There's been an epidemic of food stamps in the farming community for this very reason, despite farmers working from sunrise to sunset.

    Countries like Spain have made billboards illegal. I think this is the type of thinking is good. We need to get away from this swamp of advertising and communications system abuse (and the resulting emotional abuse from all the scams and so on) that we're all become mired in. I think it's a very serious problem that's basically being completely ignored in the public discourse. Basically because the public discourse is being led by those same communications networks. They'd never rat themselves out to the public.

    Sure, that is a great idea but in the US the purse gets the final say. Big money will not allow their advertisements to be thwarted because it might help ease the mental illness plight. In fact, over spending is something they desire not only for the products they sell but for the economy as a whole.

    Deep down inside, if everyone awoke to consumerism and rejected materialism, focusing more on self-sustainability and spirituality, the entire economy would collapse. The people in power today, if that were to happen, would fund all kinds of revolutionary action to thwart grassroots movements.

    But again, it's our individual choices that matter most. For if we can reject such consumerism, so cannot someone you know. Unfortunately, with the advent of TV and social media, stupid trends rule the airwaves.

    It's a bizarre problem that humanity faces at this moment in history.

    Indeed, and alien to our evolution. Unfortunately, most would reject such immaterialism.

    We almost need a revolution of our communications systems, to remake it for the public good rather than for advertising and scammers to abuse like it's the wild west.

    Foremost would be to revoke streamlining federal laws to towns. Second would be to have town corp. have open source decentralized paper ballot voting. I think all such communitarian ideas for the purpose of society as a whole should start locally. The consensus today is that federal law, easily lobbied by the interests of big money, can supersede town law. And even today the laws of the town corporation are highly centralized and rely on the dreaded mammonistic budget view. The state then increases direct and indirect taxes to pay off that interest.

    The saturation of misuse of these systems has become unstable, bad effects are bound to happen because of how it affects people psychologically and how it affects how they view communication.

    Consider the aspirations of the WEF and world governor alliance. Yes, our own governors are part of an international agenda. The entire responsible stakeholder schtick is to open up niche markets where humans thought no man should go. That is to make you and I and our bodies and health a commodity to be traded on markets and profited off of. That is the real goal of 5g, IoT, the 4th industrial revolution — processes which could have benefited humanity. Endless 'progress' (devolution) for the interests of big capital and the Malthusian doctrinists all rapped up in responsible stakeholder capitalism. In the end, it will suck everyone dry and there will be nothing left but to seek a higher power, something immaterial.

    That is their goal, no? By 2030, "you'll own nothing, have no privacy and be happy!" Hopefully, nobody buys into that viewpoint because this consumer culture we have now, will be transformed into a dystopian rentiers' crazy house, where data generation will monopolize the movement of money.

    It's a very bad problem that at its worst may result in many global cultures being hijacked with the intent to destroy/reshape them, but many people can't see the full scope of the issue.

    One big international family under consumerism and materialism forever. It's like the movie They Live. They know you don't need it but they tickle your senses so that you desire to have it. I'm sure they use other techniques like the head to skull invention, which I believe they had installed somewhere in NYC for sometime, which would use specific-frequencies to sell you things but it sounded like the ad was emanating from your head rather than from a loud speaker far away. Scary stuff. I think more and more people see through all of this but then again I'm not so sure because less and less people read, if at all. I came to have this viewpoint because of Church friends and because of Jesus.

    [–]Jesus 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Conclusion, mammon rules in this world. But we can always fight locally and many people have won this way.

    [–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Bots and shills number far more on internet subs and on twitter and elsewhere than most people would like to admit could imagine.

    [–]Tom_Bombadil 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

    Saidit does have shills, and they do hijack the front page. This has to be dealt with. Your ignorance of the problem does not make it disappear.

    Nor should one user be able to take over the front page. This is a community, not one person's sounding board.

    This.

    [–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

    Claiming that anyone who disagrees with you is a shill is not being intellectually honest, though.

    [–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Claiming that anyone who disagrees with you is a shill is not being intellectually honest, though.

    I don't believe anyone is claiming that "anyone" who disagrees with them is a shill.

    Although, I don't think it's controversial to suggest that shills are increasingly attacking the site more frequently than ever.

    I'm not attacking your submissions either.

    [–]Node 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    Trolls and shills both. And they've managed to stir up unrest among some of the regular users too. Of course there are some 'imperfections', but creating a lot of drama to focus on those just makes things a little worse. Not to go all Rodney King, but...

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      I like what you post, but M7 does make valid points too.