Saidit's 'free speech' is under attack from the new admin, who is of course a tranny. Check the moderation logs and see individual user posts to see what is being removed and ask yourself "is this level of censorship in line with saidit's rules, or are they serving a personal agenda'.

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[–]christnmusicreleases 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (51 children)

Then I suggest you put that limitation on all users or admit that you're the shill here. What is it with leftists? Free speech for me but not for thee.

If you could only speak eight times a day, would that be free speech? I didn't use Reddit like that, why would I expect Saidit to be less free than them?

It's all in the algorithm. You can tweak it if you want to push a certain diversity. You don't need to muzzle your userbase, especially the leaders who are building subs and regularly posting and engaging with other users. Look at yourself in the mirror. Your posts aren't much different than mine, a bit of politics, a bit of technology, a bit of humor, and a few serious posts.

[–]magnora7 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (33 children)

It is on all users, I already said that twice

It's like you're deliberately not paying attention to what I'm saying, and instead just want to cause trouble.

[–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (32 children)

If that is indeed the case, then it should be hardcoded into the system, lest some users "be more equal" than others.

Selective enforcement is the problem: if it's not coded in, potential for discrimination is unlimited, which is exactly the problem with Reddit. Admins are not going to impartially police the limit of free speech of users they agree with.

Also it should be stated clearly into the rules of the site. I had no such issue with you before.

This is clearly lazy coding, IMHO. You could simply limit the maximum number of posts per user featured on the front, and let them post to their heart's content without interfering with your diversity quota. I don't care if I'm not on your featured list, but I think my posts all have a right to be seen.

Why should I have to wait 3 hours to post breaking news that's really important for a particular sub?

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (31 children)

You can write the code then and we'll gladly use it.

You realize we're doing all this stuff for free, right? I don't have infinite time to be re-writing code for edge-cases to accomplish things we can already easily do.

[–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (30 children)

You've already branded me as the perjorative "shill," do you really want a "shill" hijacking your glorious algorithm?

Are you really that inept a coder? You have created and maintain a site, you set an informal rule that nobody knows, and you can't just code it in? Or perhaps you're afraid if people know the rules, they wouldn't be your userbase anymore.

The very least you could do, if you're too lazy to limit code to 1 post per 3 hours per user, which is super easy, is to write it up in the rules, and enforce it among the entire userbase equally (which in the end you claim to be doing the last point, I think that is much harder than coding it, as the code only needs to be written once, enforcement is infinite potentially).

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (29 children)

I never called you a shill. I said these are things shills do, which is a true statement.

You think it's "super easy" but you've obviously never looked at the codebase. If you could code it, we will use it. But of course you won't, because it's actually not easy at all.

You call me lazy, but I do hours of work a day for this website.

[–]christnmusicreleases 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (28 children)

You do realize that code injection is a risk here? You've labeled me the bad guy here. Why don't you step up and fill in the hole, thus preventing these arguments and a lot of unnecessary moderation?

It's pretty easy, put in a variable for each user called postnumber, increment it after each post. When postnumber = 9, deny the next post, resetting it every 24 hours. And perhaps put in a special case to deny simultaneous posts by using a flag, postingpost=on. It's not rocket science here.

Or you could manually moderate every user with an Iron Fist, stirring up dissent and a toxic environment. Time consuming for all admins and bad for the site mood as a whole. Which is what you claim to be doing as of now. A little coding goes a long way for PR.

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (27 children)

You do realize that we review all our code before adding it to the main branch?

What is this, amateur hour? Wake up dude.

[–]christnmusicreleases 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (26 children)

Well the coding to rate limit posts to 1 per 3 hours is so easy an amateur could do it, so in that sense, yes, it is amateur hour and if it took you more than an hour I'd call you the amateur here.

You can review the code, but I've hacked forums before by editing site code (a little user privilege escalation as a moderator because the admin was AWOL indefinitely). It doesn't take much to make an exploit if you're motivated.

You still haven't answered me why you don't publicize your secret rule on the site somewhere visible for all users to easily spot. I doubt I would have invested the time I did on this Reddit replacement when I could have done it without free speech limitation on the others. Which is a shame, because the site code here is otherwise not too shabby. Just needs a tweak. And admins need to BTFO a bit to let the well-intentioned users breathe.

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (25 children)

Well the coding to rate limit posts to 1 per 3 hours is so easy an amateur could do it, so in that sense, yes!

This is what you don't understand. You think it's a 5-hour project, but because of how complex our codebase is, it's probably more like a 30-hour project. You're welcome to do this 30+ hours of work. Go for it.

You aren't allowed to edit site code, but you can submit code that we would review. You don't seem to understand this either.

[–]JasonCarswell 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (16 children)

I agree that the limitation must be for everyone, including me. I've not heard of an 8/day limit until now. I do not like it at all. If anything, this is more arbitrary M7 bullshit. IF there's a limit to be imposed, the community should vote on it in /s/SaidItSurveys.

Further, the voting must be managed and prepared - openly. As I've previously pushed for countless times, if there was special announcements in the header or sidebox people would be notified of important community news rather than stumbling upon them by chance in /s/all - easily overlooked if you miss a day or few.

Failing that, we could announce a date for the election, at least a week in advance, tweak the criteria up to the election with community feedback, then have the election. This is a better way to social-manage the community - openly.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

IF there's a limit to be imposed, the community should vote on it in /s/SaidItSurveys.

Why? So the shills can vote?

8 is every bit as arbitrary as whatever number is voted for.

I'm struggling to identify successful democracies in 2021.

If Saidit was a democracy then it would have been ruined long ago.

Nobody cares about the site as much as M7. He created it.

Why should anyone else get to decide?

Benevolent dictatorship in an era of malevolence.

I support maximal freedom, but you can't win wars with bickering democratic allies.

We don't have unified allies. Quite the opposite.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Don't give up so soon. There are ways to figure things out that are more open and fair.

Sure, shills are a valid problem. Maybe filter out users under 8 months old, as it's come up that the STABs now date back that far. Then add a filter for rarely used accounts suddenly coming to life to vote. New folks will be disenfranchised but you'll have a more authentic number.

Yes, democracy is the tyranny of the majority. I still believe in worker cooperatives, a much lesser evil than unions or corporations.

I am against democracy for more important things on SaidIt. I would never want Chipit elected to the trusted-team, among others.

M7 could NOT have done it without D3.

Ask DioJr how benevolent he is.

We don't have unified allies. Quite the opposite.

You've lost me.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

We don't have unified allies. Quite the opposite.

You've lost me.

United we stand, etc.

I doubt Saidit could be considered united.

I doubt those selected as jurors would remain united after about a month.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

As I said elsewhere under this OP to M7:

" The older active problematic users like DioJr, the ABCs, and even me or christnmusicreleases if you so wish, deserve open transparent trials by a trusted-team with respected wisdom. You pick them, let people vote for them, or whatever. I respect folks like AXXA, christnmusicreleases, D3, DeWho, Fred, happysmash, Hibiki, jamesK, Jesus, Larry, M7, Musky, Orangutan, TAM, Tom, zyxzevn, and many more friends who aren't highlighted on /s/all right now that I know with varying degrees of certainty. Your list may be different than my short sample list here. Between them I'm quite sure your respected team can come to a conclusion with minimal drama in a timely fashion (NOT endless), save you the headache, and distribute the target and blame that's all on you now as judge, jury, and executioner. "

You are in that list of what I'd call good ones, even if of different character. Some I don't know as well as others and may need to be removed in time while others may be added by being worthy. Are there any in that list you would most likely not be civil with?

[–]Tom_Bombadil 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Are there any in that list you would most likely not be civil with?

It's not about that. It's about the effects of power/influence.

Also, no one actually knows anyone else. It's all forum personalities. Who's to say anyone is worthy.

M7 is about as measured and restrained as it gets.

Put aside your own visions for what the site could be, or make your own site.

Publicly pushing for changes to other people's site's in inherently destabilizing; especially given all of the STABS action recently.

The timing of all of this is interesting.

So many seemingly independent individuals and groups are all demanding changes at the same time.

I'm not a coincidence theorist.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

It's not about that. It's about the effects of power/influence.

It ISabout that, AND about self-regulating that power/influence.

The common users as well as the trusted-team would call each other's shit out and even dismiss team members who may seem to get drunk on power. Whether I were part of a team like that or not, I'd be more interested in watching how people wield their power to call it out. At present we can call out M7 but there's ZERO accountability - if we even know about what ever shit he's up to, for better or worse.

Also, no one actually knows anyone else. It's all forum personalities. Who's to say anyone is worthy.

Their history of actions and expressed views build up their case. Duh. Just like appraising shills. Of course a skeptic would know that anyone may falter at any time, even in power.

M7 is about as measured and restrained as it gets.

That's bullshit. He's moderately fair. He also has frequent meltdowns of irrationality, childish manipulations and deceptions, and even stoops to low blows when confronted.

Put aside your own visions for what the site could be, or make your own site.

I prolly shouldn't say this in the open before anything is certain, but it's already being seriously considered. PM me for more.

This could be the new slogan "We respectfully invite you to go fork yourself."

Publicly pushing for changes to other people's site's in inherently destabilizing; especially given all of the STABS action recently.

M7 owns this site but it's ALL OF OUR COMMUNITY that gives it life.

M7 chooses his policies like allowing anons, free-ish speech, exposing power, etc.
M7 chooses to be burdened rather than delegate responsibilities.
M7 chooses to take on all these difficult problems himself.
And he's even chosen not to ban me, for whatever good that may or may not do.

You're better than to support authoritarianism.

The timing of all of this is interesting.
So many seemingly independent individuals and groups are all demanding changes at the same time.

My issues with M7 are not new, and this is why the co-founder of SaidIt pulled out too, and how useless_aether was handled was the mess and last straw. I didn't see all of it like he did, and I don't like it either but at least I saw a bit of how he was sliding. I was not willing to die on that hill. I have zero evidence DioJr was a problem, just hearsay which is largely opinion for better or worse. DioJr is the catalyst martyr to push for the change and evolution we will be needing to survive the future.

I'm not a coincidence theorist.

Me either. The big conspiracies like the Great Reset and Agenda 21 and the Trillion$ in bailouts are funding the war of censorship and oppression and will get worse in the future towards 2030. The food crises will only make things worse and desperate people will be STABs for a steady paycheck.

Because many people align to ask (or demand like morons) for things at the same time doesn't necessarily mean it's a conspiracy. Many may be connected. It may also indicate that serious reform is critically necessary. IMO, it's been LOOOOOOOOOOONG overdue.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

childish manipulations and deceptions, and even stoops to low blows when confronted.

I read it and didn't see any low blows.

In fact, I agree. If people are becoming emotional about this site then they should take a break.

This could be the new slogan "We respectfully invite you to go fork yourself."

I love it.
Maybe meme this with the Silence of the Lambs scene where the killer is looking in the mirror and telling himself, "I'd fork me so hard!".

Seriously though. I agree with him.
Nobody has the right to commandeer this site from him. Community, or otherwise.

"Community" commandeering is literally a communist coup.

Please take a step back, and consider what you're pushing for.

M7 chooses to take on all these difficult problems himself. And he's even chosen not to ban me, for whatever good that may or may not do.

That's his prerogative.

Because many people align to ask (or demand like morons) for things at the same time doesn't necessarily mean it's a conspiracy.

Of course it doesn't.

Many may be connected. It may also indicate that serious reform is critically necessary.

These community's have political conflict in the best of times.
Particularly, when the emphasis is critical thinking, and debate.

The odds of tam being trans, and volunteering as an admin to help, and the ice storm fiasco, and the influx of GC related groups is beyond improbable.

Each one of these is a less than 1% likelihood IMO.
4 : 1% events ~ 0.00000001 or 0.000001%

It stinks of M7 being set up.

A site destabilization attack is in full swing, and you're exacerbating the severity.

Hurry up and make your forking site.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I read it and didn't see any low blows.

I've been very open about my mood issues and history of trying anti-depressants. Some mental illnesses are like this and others are related to cognitive abilities. Many misconceptions abound about mental illnesses and too many people think you're just mental if you have any issues at all - as if being morbidly obese or quadriplegic of a sprained ankle are equivalent "physical health" issues.

Like bringing up the fact of someone's sexuality, race, or other physical limitations or attributes, he brought that up, to shame, insult, or belittle my legitimate issues - that he's still avoided. That is a low blow. It might have rocked me years ago while recovering, but I now have my balls of titanium back and no matter how much M7 want's to play with my balls as is obvious, they won't budge for him as he's clearly not my type. He can eat a bag of ticks with Lyme disease for all I care.

In fact, I agree. If people are becoming emotional about this site then they should take a break.

LOL. Don't fall for his bullshit shill-like tactics. Just because he calls me emotional doesn't make it true.

This could be the new slogan "We respectfully invite you to go fork yourself." I love it.

D3 want's to have SaidIt be available as a download backup. M7 hasn't done that yet, nor do I expect he ever will. Decentralizing his power is not in his ego's interest. Further, while he's federated with NotABug he may not with me or others. There are no guarantees a fork, instance, or other site would even have a chance, even if I wanted to put all my other ideas on hold to try.

Seriously though. I agree with him.

As is your prerogative. In all things or specifics? Care to elaborate? I trust you and your opinion far more than the other asstolls and kissasses who've chimed in against me. Others have supported me too.

Nobody has the right to commandeer this site from him. Community, or otherwise.

I've NEVER advocated for taking the site away from M7 nor demanded he resign - EVER.

I've only persisted in asking for improvements and evolution under his oversight. And I've persisted in calling out his obvious shit - manipulations, deceptions, hypocrisy, stooping, and lies - which thankfully don't happen too often (as far as I'm aware). The more I see his stubbornness the more I'm convinced its a shield to hide his technical inadequacies.

"Community" commandeering is literally a communist coup.

That's bullshit and you know it. I'm not calling for a tyranny by democracy. If you fucking read anything I posted you'd know I'm calling for him to create his own trusted-team to help him be more fair and effective and accountable. Cooperation is NOT communism.

Please take a step back, and consider what you're pushing for.

I know exactly what I'm pushing for, as I have been for years.

M7 chooses to take on all these difficult problems himself. And he's even chosen not to ban me, for whatever good that may or may not do.
That's his prerogative.

Agreed. I don't envy his burdens, and I'm not stupid enough to take them on and play victim all the time without delegating responsibilities or doing much at all about it. He brings this drama on himself (and often fuels it, regardless of his claims to the contrary). Obviously, I'm not the only oppositional "drama".

The odds of tam being trans, and volunteering as an admin to help, and the ice storm fiasco, and the influx of GC related groups is beyond improbable.

Elsewhere under this OP, M7 declared that he wasn't aware of TAM's situation, though TAM's first post clearly stated it (I don't think I saw it). I don't care what TAM is or is not, and I suspect that if M7 knew about it he'd avoid making an admin of a controversial type of person who's inexperienced at only 18 years old. I think TAM is a good one despite having some issues and some wisdom lacking. If anything, is shows that M7 was desperate for help. I'm glad for both of them.

ALL of the refugees, from TheDonald, O&A, IP2, GC, LXXX, etc. are the direct result of Reddit censorship. It's neither a coincidence nor a conspiracy. It's a side effect of the global totalitarian culture war to distract from the class war waged on all citizens by the ruling class and their corporatocracy.

It stinks of M7 being set up.

"Set up" is not the phrase I'd use. Yes, SaidIt is a target, indirectly via the censorship-induced influx of "undesirables", as well as whatever STABs are being well funded by Dems, GOP, Israel, think tanks, etc.

A site destabilization attack is in full swing,

That's not new.

and you're exacerbating the severity.

I cannot deny this.

I'm also certain there is no good time to protest. Even if things were chill and I were to raise these issues, you, M7, and others would call me a shit disturber and accuse me of trying to ruin SaidIt.

As Jimmy Dore goes on about - you don't wait until after the guy's been elected to make demands of him, and you don't wait until there's a good time for universal healthcare (certainly not until after the pandemic). It's ALWAYS time to act and evolve and improve things.

I'm hoping to also educate people by example about how shitty the LXXX/MoronLeft protests are by contrasting with my own "better" protests - AND critically importantly, being open to feedback and improvements. But most of all I'm also trying to show that those asstrolls have some very legitimate issues among their absurd demands.

I'm very well aware this extra drama does not look good on me to all people, especially those who are authoritarians, who accept that their boss is able to exploit them, and who think that site ownership means they own the community that MANY MANY MANY others put time and effort into building, and would be just be an empty shell without the people - like an empty sub.

As I usually do, I've been using formatting with italics and bold. Do I seem emotional? I'm not. M7 is full of shit.

Hurry up and make your forking site.

It's not that simple. Also, after these messages stop trickling in I'll share a post. I DO value your opinion highly, but maybe wait a little to respond.

[–]Node 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Watch out for that Node character.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, he's just one node in a cluster of trouble.

You're among my /s/friends too! I would have included you if I'd seen you highlighted in red on /s/all or in that thread as I did them. There are many many many more insightful folks who have earned their way into my /s/friends list. They are the good ones. Some I know better than others. And even a handful who have earned their way off it.

[–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

I am with you on this 100%.

I don't like the limitation, I think it's an atrocity, but if it exists it should be applied equally.

The problem with Saidit is that average user interaction is low, when compared to other Reddit alternatives. I guess /u/magnora7 intends to keep it that way.

The much better way and more common sense method of managing things is to allow unlimited posting, but make it much harder for a single user to dominate the front page in any meaningful sense. Allow everything to show up in /r/all, and don't be selective about which subs appear there.

Which is what the majority of Reddit clones do, I do not see any advantage of keeping this censorship mechanism in the rules (on- or off-book).

I could care less if any of my posts showed up on the front page, I just want my content to be posted to relevant subs and be seen on some aggregate page on the site so that it's not missed.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

The problem with Saidit is that average user interaction is low,

I can't speak to other alternatives, but I agree. I would hope for a more interactive community.

I have some ideas that might make this happen. Stay tuned.

The much better way and more common sense method of managing things is to allow unlimited posting, but make it much harder for a single user to dominate the front page in any meaningful sense. Allow everything to show up in /r/all, and don't be selective about which subs appear there.

This is a good idea too. I have many other variant ideas on how to curate the front page. All of them require technical skills I don't have.

I could care less if any of my posts showed up on the front page, I just want my content to be posted to relevant subs and be seen on some aggregate page on the site so that it's not missed.

I agree, for some things. Somethings deserve a chance to be promoted rather than just topically "filed away". The filing is important though - especially if we develop bridges to other sites like WikiSpooks or other music wikis or archives or whatever resources.

[–]christnmusicreleases 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

The main point here is to put as much power in the hands of the end user as possible. By empowering users, we can give them the ability to filter or control any content they want or don't want to see.

Only in the case of egregious abuse should users be banned or groups removed. I suppose you could remove certain groups from the front page that are known for extremely edgy content but not to the extend of deserving a site ban (which could be added back on a per-user basis by subscribing). The emphasis should be minimal moderation with effective filtering.

In the end, a good system will propel Saidit forward or relegate it to the fate of a dead site. You can't let it remain stale.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed! You sound like a big part of my MetaVote idea. Metatags and filters are key. Big data has it, but we don't - yet.

[–]christnmusicreleases 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You mean like hashtags? I kind of like how http://notabug.io works, where you can instantly create a sub just by posting. Problem is that site is flawed in moderation and voting mechanisms.

Honestly I just hate hard limits. The ability to create instant subs with no limitation is an amazing freedom (really it's just a form of hashtagging anyways). The fewer limits you impose, the greater your site came become. Also the more popular it can become if correctly implemented.