Love or hate Blaire White, but this is the real thing that needs to be said about TRAs and how LGB is different.

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[–][deleted] 31 insightful - 3 fun31 insightful - 2 fun32 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

Blaire seems to get it: that trans activism is bonkers. Good on her. A nice serving of sanity. I've heard her name before now, but this is the first video I've watched.

Look. If all trans people shared her opinion, and understood her reasons for having those opinions, we wouldn't be here.

"We can't just go against every single thing that society believes and try to rip it all down rather than be included in it."

"The real conversations always lead to a healthy compromise."

"I think the trans community really needs to look at themselves in the mirror and ask if they want to be part of real life or if they just want to be a part of ideologically-driven trans discourse on the Internet."

"Ask yourself. If all this activism is so effective, why is it not making any changes? Why if anything is there regression?"

This is a good video, worth a watch.

[–]reluctant_commenter 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Look. If all trans people shared her opinion, and understood her reasons for having those opinions, we wouldn't be here.

I'm not sure I agree. We might not have been censored off of Reddit and in a community on Saidit, if that were the case-- but I think there still would have been a DropTheT movement. Because:

  1. T is still not about sexuality even under Blaire's worldview, it's about "transitioning" whatever the hell that means. Even if Blaire doesn't believe in gender identity, that's still a pretty different experience from being L/G/B.

  2. The whole idea of "transitioning" seems to have homophobic origins. Even the "sane transitioners" are supporting the message that if you look, behave, and think too much like a member of the opposite sex, then you need to pretend to be a member of the opposite sex. That's literally the old homophobic saying come to life: "Gay men are women trapped in men's bodies, lesbians are men trapped in women's bodies."

  3. ...Is transitioning good for any demographic? It obviously is harmful to people around transitioners, by pressuring them to lie about the transitioners' sex (not even getting into the manipulative, cult-like tactics of TRAs). It is harmful to many AGP men who transition-- people on r/askAGP caution against it. It seems like it may even be harmful to HSTS (homosexual transsexual) men, see point #2.

There are a lot of reasons to oppose the idea of "transitioning" even though Blaire is, relatively speaking, much more grounded and realistic than many other trans people.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I was meaning my statement as more of a logistical reason. All your points would stand, but we would wind back the clock to say, 1990 or so when trans was still around, but not a zeitgeist.

It is harmful to many AGP men who transition-- people on r/askAGP caution against it.

Selection bias, but I otherwise agree. My opinion for most AGP is that transitioning is harmful to them. If they could instead understand that their motivation is paraphillic, then it would be possible for them to integrate that part into their life rather than believing the lie that's perpetrated by mostly other AGP. One cannot sort themselves out with a giant, unresolved cognitive dissonance. Transitioning does not resolve that dissonance, either, it just digs the claws in deeper, really.

It seems like it may even be harmful to HSTS (homosexual transsexual) men, see point #2.

My recent post, which you participated in, on Ken Zucker's tweet deals with this in a fashion. To quote him: "Many contemporary clinicians have argued that GID in children is the result, at least in part, of psychodynamic and psychosocial mechanisms, which lead to an analogous fantasy solution: that becoming a member of the other sex would somehow resolve internalized distress."

Hypothetically there is a treatment option for GID rather than transitioning (this is why the tweet thread is in fact topically relevant,) and IMHO since transing is so dangerous, unhealthy and destructive, this should be explored. Activists, of course, will be opposed to this as "conversion therapy." Sexual-orientation conversion therapy is unlikely ever to work because sexual orientation is innate and very likely immutable. Gender identity is socially moderated.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I was meaning my statement as more of a logistical reason.

Gotcha, yeah there would be a lot of differences.

Hypothetically there is a treatment option for GID rather than transitioning (this is why the tweet thread is in fact topically relevant,) and IMHO since transing is so dangerous, unhealthy and destructive, this should be explored... Gender identity is socially moderated.

Totally agree. I guess what I struggle to understand is why HSTS are then convinced that transitioning is a good idea, given the points you touched on above. Like... I guess I could see it if they had a lot of internalized homophobia and/or a lot of deeply-ingrained sex steteotype beliefs... is there anything else I'm missing?

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Over many years, starting in childhood they've been working on their solution to their particular set of problems.

To really gloss over it:

Boy really wants to play with dolls. <--- GNC

Parents tell kid they cant.

"Why not?"

"Because you're a boy, boys don't play with dolls." <--- Social moderation

"What makes me a boy?"

"You have a penis, that's what makes you a boy." <--- Cross-sex wishes

[–]reluctant_commenter 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Hmm. I guess the fact that they've wanted to be the other sex for years would make a homosexual transsexual person prone to sunk cost fallacy. It would require a massive shift in mindset, to accept: "the people who told me boys don't play with dolls are full of shit, and I've literally been lied to my entire life"

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm sure that goes for all types of trans.

Another question with GID in HSTS is, what's different between the 80% who desist and the 20% who persist? More potential therapeutic options could be found in that difference.

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ah, if only we could do research on these topics openly!

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Between sex research being taboo and activists raising a huge ruckus... we're doomed.

[–]loveSloaneSuperDuperBi 24 insightful - 8 fun24 insightful - 7 fun25 insightful - 8 fun -  (1 child)

“The flat earthers of gender”

[–]hetisachoice 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Two forms of pseudoscience for the price of one.

[–]reluctant_commenter 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh man. This is a really hard video for me to try to evaluate lol, because I think Blaire had a ton of amazing points and quotes, but also stumbled in regards to this crucial fact:

Being transgender isn't about transitioning to the opposite sex, as Blaire said. It's about pretending to be the opposite sex. You can't change sexes.

And therein lies the problem. Blaire correctly diagnoses the fundamental difference between the gay rights movement and the trans rights movement: the former simply involved the assimilation of an unpopular minority into society, and the latter involves deconstruction of society. Those are two very different aims. But I struggle to see how Blaire's worldview avoids this very issue that mainstream TRAs have, even though it is more grounded in science, because:

  • The 'ask' of the gay rights movement was equality under the law.

  • The 'ask' of the trans rights movement, even in Blaire's world, is-- for people to change their behavior and lie repeatedly about someone's biological sex, via pronouns, and change their definitions of what "woman" and "man" mean.

In gay rights-- where is the lie? There is none. One can find gay people repulsive, or question how many gay people there are, but there was never a question over the very existence of homosexuality. Even if it was never deemed a sexual orientation in its own rights by some bigots, it is obvious that homosexual behavior exists. I struggle to see the same parallel with trans rights. I imagine many people find it much easier, relatively, to tell a white lie when it comes to trans people who "assimilate," as Blaire puts it, into society, and who pass reasonably well as the sex they're trying to. But... is it really a fair ask to demand that lie from people, period? And how about if the trans person doesn't pass at all-- is it fair then? (And if passing is the difference, how on earth do you even draw the line? That doesn't seem reasonable, aside from the rest of the issue.)

I still think Blaire's likeable, lol. And I appreciate the nuance this video adds to the topic. Thanks for sharing the video.

edit: typo

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's an accurate take. If trans people just accepted basic reality i would never have "peak trans'd" and started tilting away from accepting anything they say.

[–]crodish 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with him completely, but sometimes I wonder what the end goal would be. There's a whole discourse about how "good trans" don't/shouldn't get a free pass to their desired pronouns, because that's hypocritical (that they're at the end of the day still biologically male despite their presentation). In a world where trans rights are supported but do not trample over women and LGB's rights as well, what would that look like?

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I agree with most of that, except perhaps things like, "access to resources", depending on what that means exactly. Does that include free transitions? Will need some elaboration on that.

Also, I don't think that any child should be allowed to be transed. Only adults.

[–]el-sol-duerme 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Blaire has several video on why transgender children, and pushing trans ideology on them, is a terrible idea. I only watch Blaire's videos on these topics as there are no other sensible trans people on YT.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe I'll check them out.

[–]usehername 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No, I don't think he means free transitions. A family member of mine works in healthcare and told me about this elderly trans-identified female who had likely been on hormones at one point because she had a beard. She had dementia, but her chart said "trans" and she insisted she was male. She needed around-the-clock care because she has dementia and is blind, but many nursing homes would not accept her because they couldn't figure out whether to put her with a male or female roommate. She was eventually admitted somewhere with no roommates. The idea that they would even consider putting a blind, demented woman in a room with another (likely demented) man is extremely ridiculous, but my point is that she was being denied access to housing and medical care because of her trans status.

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

This community's very existence is a result of the failings of transgender discourse online. When you have actual LGB people, who are meant to be accepting and understanding of the hardships of the journey to acceptance begin to draw away from you and dislike your ideology, then there is an issue. To be quite clear: I am perfectly fine with the idea of a transgender person integrating into society, living a quiet life as their desired gender and being happy. But I cannot get behind the whole movement as it stands with how aggressive and manipulative it is; influencing children into permanently damaging their bodies, guilting LGB people into attraction and invading women's spaces.

[–]lavender_menace 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  • living a quiet life as their desired gender
  • not invading women’s spaces

Those two contradict each other, if they live as their desired gender it automatically means they are welcome in women’s locker rooms, sports, prisons and shelters for battered women. Also entitled to women’s scholarship programs and political seats.

Edit: typo

[–]BEB 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What irks me about men using female pronouns (and I don't know if Blaire White does or not) is it implies that if a man can identify into women's oppression, women can identify out of oppression.

I am old enough to remember when even American women were denied basic rights, such as the right to a line of credit without a male cosigning- changing her pronouns would not have allowed my mom to get a loan, nor would her claiming to be a man.

Blaire White is a man, even he says so; I personally will never refer to him as "she" because it implies that if I refer to myself as "he" society will treat me as if I were a man and my sex-based oppression will disappear.

[–]Taln_Reich 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Thing is, it kind of depends on which part of the oppression one is talking about, and which degree of transition had taken place. Obviously, societal power dynamics do not care how someone refers to themself or what someone claims with no factual backing. But the thing is, Blaire White has done quite a bit more than that. To use your example: if Blaire White had been around that time, and walked into the Bank, with her legal gender on offical documents being a woman and looking like a woman, she probably wouldn't have been given a credit line, because everyone would have perceived her to be a woman, with the legal documents backing this perception up. Now, let's say it had been Jammie Dodger ( a different Trans Youtuber, this one a Female to Male transgender , person on the left in this picture https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thesun.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2Fjamieraines2.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thesun.co.uk%2Ftech%2F3967546%2Fhow-do-you-have-sex-trans-youtuber-jamie-raines-reveals-weirdest-things-people-ask-him-as-video-site-celebrates-pride%2F&tbnid=2d3vnKM_fv7qgM&vet=12ahUKEwjDoZvEjtvuAhUMyaQKHfiJAVIQMygaegUIARDCAQ..i&docid=xZ6qxfAIrTczZM&w=577&h=484&q=jammie%20dodger%20youtube&ved=2ahUKEwjDoZvEjtvuAhUMyaQKHfiJAVIQMygaegUIARDCAQ) who does look like a man, and who's legal documents do consider him to be a man, he probably would have been treated like a man, the fact that he was born female not withstanding.

Essentially, how society treats someone depends (primarily) neither on what this someone identifies as or what this someone is, but on what this someone is perceived to be. The exception here are issues directly related to the sexed biology, say, issues around aboprtion.

[–]linda_senora 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I used to watch White's videos, but a few of the Tweets he wrote are unsavory.

The problem is that I find too many trans identified individuals are manipulative and narcissistic. If assimilation into society is the goal, those who pass and take all the steps to mimick the other gender are going to make a misstep and try to coherse other people.

Those who don't even bother with assimilation and want to force people into obeying them are just vile.

Even those who take steps and do the work (as Rose of Dawn puts it), will at some point demand things from other people (women in general,lesbians, gay men) that will make those people uncomfortable.

[–]usehername 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I think it's pretty rich how Blaire is both an anti-feminist and a man who believes he's a woman because he's feminine, however, I appreciate the work he's done in exposing predators and his refreshing sanity on this topic. I don't agree with everything he says, but at least he isn't batshit.

[–]lavender_menace 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Blaire is both an anti-feminist and a man who believes he's a woman because he's feminine

At least he is consistent 🤣

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 8 insightful - 7 fun8 insightful - 6 fun9 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

Well, hes a real trans, the super femme gay dude. Trans were all ike that in past.

[–]censorshipment 7 insightful - 8 fun7 insightful - 7 fun8 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

Tried to watch but... girly voices annoy me. I'd listen if he used his natural male voice. Lol

https://youtu.be/4j8gznDVa1M ...Shohreh's voice is everything.

[–]MyLongestJourney 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Blair is common sense and therefore TRAs bane.

[–]Taln_Reich 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I very much agree with the points she made in this video. A lot of the current trans-discuorse is lacking in nuance and willingsness to compromise, resulting in everyone being worse of by the activism. Transgender people by the loss of allies and growing hostility, LGB people due to association and cotton-ceiling/boxer ceiling type arguments feeling like conversion therapy, and non-LGBT people due to being screamed at as "transphobe"/"TERF" for bringing up concerns that really need to be adressed.

[–]distortedlindsLady Muse 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

its kind of insane to see how much blaire has grown up from his original stance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XlAXfHUFb0&t=594s