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[–]reluctant_commenter 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Look. If all trans people shared her opinion, and understood her reasons for having those opinions, we wouldn't be here.

I'm not sure I agree. We might not have been censored off of Reddit and in a community on Saidit, if that were the case-- but I think there still would have been a DropTheT movement. Because:

  1. T is still not about sexuality even under Blaire's worldview, it's about "transitioning" whatever the hell that means. Even if Blaire doesn't believe in gender identity, that's still a pretty different experience from being L/G/B.

  2. The whole idea of "transitioning" seems to have homophobic origins. Even the "sane transitioners" are supporting the message that if you look, behave, and think too much like a member of the opposite sex, then you need to pretend to be a member of the opposite sex. That's literally the old homophobic saying come to life: "Gay men are women trapped in men's bodies, lesbians are men trapped in women's bodies."

  3. ...Is transitioning good for any demographic? It obviously is harmful to people around transitioners, by pressuring them to lie about the transitioners' sex (not even getting into the manipulative, cult-like tactics of TRAs). It is harmful to many AGP men who transition-- people on r/askAGP caution against it. It seems like it may even be harmful to HSTS (homosexual transsexual) men, see point #2.

There are a lot of reasons to oppose the idea of "transitioning" even though Blaire is, relatively speaking, much more grounded and realistic than many other trans people.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I was meaning my statement as more of a logistical reason. All your points would stand, but we would wind back the clock to say, 1990 or so when trans was still around, but not a zeitgeist.

It is harmful to many AGP men who transition-- people on r/askAGP caution against it.

Selection bias, but I otherwise agree. My opinion for most AGP is that transitioning is harmful to them. If they could instead understand that their motivation is paraphillic, then it would be possible for them to integrate that part into their life rather than believing the lie that's perpetrated by mostly other AGP. One cannot sort themselves out with a giant, unresolved cognitive dissonance. Transitioning does not resolve that dissonance, either, it just digs the claws in deeper, really.

It seems like it may even be harmful to HSTS (homosexual transsexual) men, see point #2.

My recent post, which you participated in, on Ken Zucker's tweet deals with this in a fashion. To quote him: "Many contemporary clinicians have argued that GID in children is the result, at least in part, of psychodynamic and psychosocial mechanisms, which lead to an analogous fantasy solution: that becoming a member of the other sex would somehow resolve internalized distress."

Hypothetically there is a treatment option for GID rather than transitioning (this is why the tweet thread is in fact topically relevant,) and IMHO since transing is so dangerous, unhealthy and destructive, this should be explored. Activists, of course, will be opposed to this as "conversion therapy." Sexual-orientation conversion therapy is unlikely ever to work because sexual orientation is innate and very likely immutable. Gender identity is socially moderated.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I was meaning my statement as more of a logistical reason.

Gotcha, yeah there would be a lot of differences.

Hypothetically there is a treatment option for GID rather than transitioning (this is why the tweet thread is in fact topically relevant,) and IMHO since transing is so dangerous, unhealthy and destructive, this should be explored... Gender identity is socially moderated.

Totally agree. I guess what I struggle to understand is why HSTS are then convinced that transitioning is a good idea, given the points you touched on above. Like... I guess I could see it if they had a lot of internalized homophobia and/or a lot of deeply-ingrained sex steteotype beliefs... is there anything else I'm missing?

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Over many years, starting in childhood they've been working on their solution to their particular set of problems.

To really gloss over it:

Boy really wants to play with dolls. <--- GNC

Parents tell kid they cant.

"Why not?"

"Because you're a boy, boys don't play with dolls." <--- Social moderation

"What makes me a boy?"

"You have a penis, that's what makes you a boy." <--- Cross-sex wishes

[–]reluctant_commenter 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Hmm. I guess the fact that they've wanted to be the other sex for years would make a homosexual transsexual person prone to sunk cost fallacy. It would require a massive shift in mindset, to accept: "the people who told me boys don't play with dolls are full of shit, and I've literally been lied to my entire life"

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm sure that goes for all types of trans.

Another question with GID in HSTS is, what's different between the 80% who desist and the 20% who persist? More potential therapeutic options could be found in that difference.

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ah, if only we could do research on these topics openly!

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Between sex research being taboo and activists raising a huge ruckus... we're doomed.