[Vent] Vent about myself

submitted by iloveyou from self.GenderCritical

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[–]TurtleFuzz 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

It's OK to be uncomfortable sometimes. Nobody can go through life being completely happy and safe. Humans have learned to adapt and cope.

Does it feel scary not knowing all the answers? Heck yes. Does this mean we should immediately question everything we know about ourselves and change our entire lives? No.

If you're not on board with traditional/stereotypical feminine things, that's totally fine! That doesn't mean you are a boy.

For example, I love knitting, cooking and staying at home with my kids. I also love video games and anime, and I hate makeup, and don't often shave my legs or armpits. You can have diverse interests and self-expression and still be a woman.

[–]iloveyou[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Thank you so much. Do you mind if I ask - do you ever go out in shorts (or dresses) or with t-shirts or swimwear that might show your armpits not shaved? Have you even gotten comments? How do you deal with them? I am always very scared to have other people see that in me. That they might judge me or find me ugly. I never shaved my legs. One time I was about to, but I was scared to do it and ended up not doing.

When I told my friend I felt often that I didn't fit anywhere - she said she never felt that. Maybe she struggles with other things though. Can someone really feel that they fit in the world?

I like cooking too! I used to think I couldn't because that was a very woman thing. And maybe it is, but I fight to not let it affect me. Just like when I started sort of liking fashion (because I started letting myself shop in the male section), I felt that I was conforming to femininity (and as if that was bad, internalized misoginy?). But I'm just being myself. I'm not a label. I'm not a toy. I can have some things in common and others not.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

http://www.mtv.com/news/2520457/madonna-armpit-hair-other-celebrities/

[–]iloveyou[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks!

[–]TurtleFuzz 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I do go out sometimes without shaving. Usually because it takes too long, and my kids are really needy (they are 3 and 1 year old). I do get some funny looks, but no one has made a comment to me in a long time. When it did happen, I would just pretend not to hear it and keep going about my business. People love to judge others, especially based on looks. It hurts at first, but eventually you don't even notice it. The "haters gonna hate" mentality does wonders haha!

Shaving can definitely be scary. And it's easy for me to say "don't do it, you'll be fine", because I don't know anything about you. But I do think you should try working on your confidence. Practice how you might react if someone says "ugh, look over there, she didn't shave".

I understand your feelings about not fitting in. I think a lot of people feel that way, especially when they're teenagers. Your whole body is changing and you feel like a stranger to yourself. But honestly, the only things you need to do to fit in are follow the laws, and like, not kill anyone lol. Just be a good person, and nobody will be mad about what you wear, what hobbies you like, etc. The way I see it, nobody has to "fit in" in the adult, working world. Everyone is so busy with their own lives that most people will leave everyone else alone :)

Cooking is one of those things that is so important to learn, that if you meet someone who can't cook, it's a deal breaker! I agree that it's usually women who cook for the family, but think about the loads of male celebrity chefs in the world. I doubt anyone is trying to convince Gordon Ramsey that "cooking is for women" lol. If you like cooking, then like it because you are good at it, or you enjoy how it makes you feel, not because "it's a woman thing".

Fashion is such a weird thing, because everyone has their own tastes. Yet the fashion industry is built around people liking the same things and buying them. I've never liked fashion, and my own style is really tame. And especially now that I stay home with my daughters, I mostly wear sweatpants and t-shirts most days! But I do like wearing dresses and nicer clothes when the occasion calls for it. I don't think that's "conforming to femininity" if you actually enjoy it. If someone forced you to wear skirts and dresses? Then yes obviously. But if you enjoy it, then I think it's fine! That's your preference and no one should shame you for it.

Sorry for the loooong reply, but I hope this help! Feel free to send me a private message if you want to keep talking or vent some more :)

[–]iloveyou[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you so much first of all for all the words and then also for the offer of exchanging private messages. Great about the kids, congratulations on being a mom :)

I don't think I've ever heard anyone make a comment directly about me. Then again I have my head in the clouds. Mostly I hear stuff from friends talking about their own legs. Then again I avoid going in shorts anywhere. Never with people I don't know - only with people I know since I was a kid because those will be used to it.

Cooking rocks! I would love meeting someone else who likes to cook.

And to be fair I don't love fashion a lot, more like, I hated going shopping, and now I like it a bit more - I hated clothes because none made me feel good and now some do. that's more what I meant. I wish I'd go in sweatpants everywhere. Sometimes I wish I would go in a dress too - but I'm usually afraid of being in a dress and not shaved as well.

[–]BewitchedSam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't shave my legs or armpits either. I've never received a comment from an adult but my niece once asked me why I had man legs. I told her I was a woman and thus I had woman legs. She asked why they had hair I told her it's because I didn't shave it off. She seemed fine with that. No adult has ever made a comment. I've gotten the occasional odd stare but I just stare back. I don't expect to be attractive to everyone. If someone thinks I'm ugly, oh well. Do you know what's even more attractive than shaved legs? Confidence.

I used to struggle with fitting in. It was exhausting. I used to constantly try to figure out what interests other girls had so I could share them. I used to freak out about not clicking into friends groups. I eventually realized it was making me miserable and other people could tell I didn't share their interests. I started shamelessly liking what I like. When I started pursuing my interests I started finding women with those interests who I clicked well with.

You're a human being. You're allowed to be complex. You're not supposed to fit into a neat little box with a pretty label. You can like pink and football. You can cook and work on cars. You can like fashion and dungeons and dragons. Like whatever makes you happy. If someone wants to judge you for it that's on them. Don't live your life to make other people happy or you'll be miserable.

[–]iloveyou[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Somehow when people voice their weird views it's easier because we can talk with them and face it. Kids have called me a 'boy' and 'tomboy' and 'why do you have short hair'. Kids are the ones voicing those things more of course. I have explained I'm not a boy, I have explained I'm not a tomboy, (I don't identfy with that, I think it's an unnecessary label), it's only harder to explain why I have short hair because that's more 'because I like it'. If my mom argued about my short hair I could always argue against it - although it's hard to make a proper discussion out of hair. But now I'm mostly imagining that people are thinking it! Even more effed up - and more questionable if I am imagining their thoughts or not.

I used to struggle with fitting in. It was exhausting.

Thanks for your words - and sharing your experience. It's really good to hear about people who don't shave. It's very useful to help me feel less alone.

Don't live your life to make other people happy or you'll be miserable.

I don't know if I can follow this fully, but I will be challenging myself to try and question when I am making decisions.

I started shamelessly liking what I like. When I started pursuing my interests I started finding women with those interests who I clicked well with.

I need to find what things I like :) whenever I start sharing likes with other people I tend to stop feeling as free when I make them because I'm thinking of other people and what they'd think or if I really like it or if I just do them to fit in. Or even if I lose those friends, I lose the passion in those things. Even if I started without them. It has sort of happened a bit before (not all of those happened to the same interests and hobbies, some only just parts apply). It's weird.

Sorry this is all over the place lol thank you <3

[–]jelliknight 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I have a friend who not only didn't shave, she also dyed her armpit hair bright pink or green. When you let it grow natural, people may assume that you've just forgotten or been lazy. Ironically, making it more obvious meant it was more accepted because it was 100% clear that she planned it and wasn't going to change based on some weirdos comment.

Can someone really feel that they fit in the world?

You're aiming too low, my dear. Make the world fit you.

[–]iloveyou[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

That sounds rad. I feel that I couldn't do stuff like that. Quite honestly I find armpit hair kinda ugly. Maybe even more for men because theirs grows bigger? Once I saw a girl who had obvious armpit hair, too. She was dancing and put her arms up. On the first second I judged, but then I didn't. I guess there is where I felt I belonged more. People were more playful with the way they dressed and stuff.

Your last sentence is beautiful. But what power do I have to make the world fit me? Doesn't that have consequences? In the job market for instance? Sometimes I feel so different - in all sorts of things, really - doesn't mean it's just gender-related. I always tried to refuse to fit. But the older I get, the weirder that feels. Because 'adults'. Because people always judge. They comment on your short hair. On you having to please your imaginary future husband. On extremisms - where I feel like I fit a bit in a group but don't identify with all that they preach. I can't make them fit to me. Especially if I'm not certain that I own the truth - I'm only more certain that I have questions for many of the truths people advertise. Or there's expectations of how to dress for a wedding or for a meeting or job interview or work day. I've always cared so much and wanted to please others - while at the same time being very aware and critical, if not out loud, in my head. I don't know how to unlearn it - or if I should cause swirls. The world doesn't care what I am. But I do.

How do I make the world fit me when every girl and boy goes swim and I can't because I'm on my period?

How do I make the world fit me when my friends are free to go to a music festival and I opt not to because I'm on my period and I'm not sure I will be able to handle it for hygienic reasons and all the worry in my head?

This is very personal and specific I know. I'm sorry. I'm not criticizing, just airing my thoughts. Thank you for your words.

[–]jelliknight 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I do shave off my body hair. I also have an undercut. When my leg hair is long i find it rubs uncomfortably on the cuffs of my boots and pants, and underarm hair can pull too sometimes if it's long enough. I feel more physically comfortable (not like I'm fitting in) when it's short, just like my head hair. I don't worry about hiding it, I shave less than once a week, but I do shave it if it gets long and irritates me. I tried using clippers but that was way more uncomfortable.

But what power do I have to make the world fit me?

You'd be surprised. There's a quote from Terry Pratchett (which you should definitely read) "if you ignore the rules people will, half the time, quietly rewrite them so that they don't apply to you." If you just be relentlessly who you are, the world will have to reorganize itself to fit around you.

Doesn't that have consequences? In the job market for instance?

I find it works in my favor. I went into male dominated STEM field and 'not being girly' and being willing to say "no" and "that's not right" helped me fit in and get respect right away. A lot of things you do will be a negotiation between what other people expect and what you want. Something that worked well for me is wearing 'natural' make up to a job interview and then gradually reducing it over the first week or two to nothing. It never gets brought up because that's how they're used to seeing me. Sometime you do have to play the system a little. For weddings, there is an expectation but there are also work arounds. If you really object to wearing a dress, pants and a nice shirt are also acceptable. But if you don't really mind, then there's no harm complying for one day. A wedding was the last time I wore a dress.

They comment on your short hair. On you having to please your imaginary future husband.

You need some sassy older women around you. I have an undercut and no one ever comments on it, but that might be because I kind of have an overall vibe of Woman Doing Exactly What She Wants. You're not wrong, they are. Get sassy about it. "It is short, and later it will grow, and then later I'll cut it again. It's hair, that's how it works." "Mmm, I don't think I'd marry a man who's that shallow." "I'm probably not getting married, my current plan is to be a lonely sea captain."

I've always cared so much and wanted to please others

It sounds like you've been raised with the standard female socialization. Your needs and opinions don't matter, put everyone else first, comply at all costs. Just know that those aren't actual rules. There is no punishment for not obeying and no reason to obey. You do more for the world by being completely yourself. You were born with a unique set of traits and now have a unique set of experienced and perspectives. We need you, we don't need a fake version of what someone else thinks you should be. Speak out loud, we want to hear what you think. As for causing swirls, another Terry Pratchett quote: "If you ain't making waves, you ain't kickin' hard enough!" I'm not saying you have to rebel against your family completely as a teen but yes you should absolutely be willing to make waves. That's what they call it when you're having an effect on the world. Do it all the time!

How do I make the world fit me when every girl and boy goes swim and I can't because I'm on my period?

Who the hell told you you can't swim on your period? That's some nonsense right there. First, tampon and cups work great even in the water. Second, if you have a light flow you don't even need to use those. Swim away! I love festival too, and you should definitely go to them. You will manage the hygiene. Our genitals are not a bomb waiting to detonate, they don't need as much maintenance as you'd been told. Pads and a daily wet wipe (full body) will be plenty.

I feel like you've been raised in a very strict christian household? Go to festivals, find older, rad women, and ask them for advice or mentoring straight up. We all remember being young and trying to find our feet, we'll help you. I'd be flattered as all heck if a young woman came up to me and said they wanted to learn how to be more like me.

[–]iloveyou[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Thank you for that response and I'm sorry I took so long to reply. I needed to let it sink down and process it. These issues with me, I might feel unsettled and need to think and talk about it, but then it becomes overwhelming and I need to tide down. I'm replying now.

First of all, I think that quote from Terry Pratchett is very true - if you ignore the rules people will quietly rewrite them so they don't apply to you. I can picture all the entitled rich and powerful people with all their lawyers. They don't need to follow the rules, they just need to have power. People in the parliament are all the time rewriting law just so they can have it apply to their illegal doings. Sometimes it's also true of less important things, though. But sometimes parents don't accept their children's differences. They keep bugging them. Keep pushing. I don't know. But other people who aren't so close, I guess. It's obvious that if someone comes to work and is rude to everyone, no one will attempt to ask him to organize the friday lunch. They will ask the people who abide by the rules, even if that people asks pretty please to not be themselves doing it.

Have I told you that I have a friend who works at a place who makes her wear a dress? What could I do if I were there? I would want to fight, but I wouldn't know where to start, specially if I had just joined it. What would you do? Where would one start? Before I even know my colleagues? It makes me think of Magdalen Bern's video about that youtuber (non-binary girl? transman? I'm not entirely sure) who made a video about how they made her wear a dress and she wore it for years until one day she wrote to HR to come out... and the rules were 'rewritten' to not apply to her, so all the women had to keep wearing a dress in the dresscode, except her. Magdalen was angry because she wanted her to fight for women's rights of wearing what they wanted and not have that absurd dress code. But what would one do? Someone like me? Do you have got advice?

I do shave off my body hair. I also have an undercut. When my leg hair is long i find it rubs uncomfortably on the cuffs of my boots and pants, and underarm hair can pull too sometimes if it's long enough. I feel more physically comfortable (not like I'm fitting in) when it's short, just like my head hair. I don't worry about hiding it, I shave less than once a week, but I do shave it if it gets long and irritates me. I tried using clippers but that was way more uncomfortable.

I don't like shaving my body hair. When I do it to my armpits and it is growing out it itches. I assume the same would happen to my legs. My skin isn't great either so there's that too. One time I felt like shaving to fit in - in a circumstance at work, a summer camp, I wanted to go in shorts like everyone else. I dreaded doing it though, I dreaded both shaving because my parents could see and comment, and I dreaded not shaving because I might have been seen totally different. I think that people will think things like:

  • So brave

  • So childish

  • Such a weird person

  • She has no idea what the world is

Or

  • She's making a statement, what a freak

  • She's not a real woman

And not thinking of me like peers. "Shaving" is the lack of statement; not shaving is the statement, the different thing, the thing that stands out.

Do you ever think any of these things about someone else? Do you see other women who like you don't shave? I never get my armpit hair like people in the ads and pictures, it always keeps a stubble, I don't know why. Has anyone ever noticed and commented on yours? Do you just not care? (if yours is short I mean)

Also, my hair also makes me uncomfortable. I used to cut it short but now just having a bun is good enough for me, it keeps it out of my neck. It'll just be hard when winter comes and can't wear beanies... more power to you with the undercut. I know a woman with a undercut - and I know people find it odd and even laugh and joke about it on her back - they accept that she doesn't abide by the rules, but they still can't help but judge and comment. This is what I'm afraid of, as well. I don't find her particularly flattering, but I know women who I do find flattering with short hair.

You need some sassy older women around you. I have an undercut and no one ever comments on it, but that might be because I kind of have an overall vibe of Woman Doing Exactly What She Wants. You're not wrong, they are. Get sassy about it. "It is short, and later it will grow, and then later I'll cut it again. It's hair, that's how it works." "Mmm, I don't think I'd marry a man who's that shallow." "I'm probably not getting married, my current plan is to be a lonely sea captain."

Oh, totally. Someone who wants you to please your imaginary husband has no reason at all. I tend to not answer anymore but sometimes I do.

I also don't know if I'm just imagining things though. How my grandma would always ask me to help cooking, clean, that sort of stuff, never my brother, or much less my father. My brother would always be eager to please and I would be eager to displease from an early age - I'd be eager to please in things my dad did, not things I perceived as being targeted to me for a sexist reason. And I do say that about hair - but I don't change minds with it. And that sucks.

I feel like you've been raised in a very strict christian household? Go to festivals, find older, rad women, and ask them for advice or mentoring straight up. We all remember being young and trying to find our feet, we'll help you. I'd be flattered as all heck if a young woman came up to me and said they wanted to learn how to be more like me.

I jumped to this part because I feel I have to address it first. Simply put, yes, christian household. But I wouldn't say strict. In fact, I feel like I've been raised in a very strict way. For example my brother played with barbies more than I did. I got the barbies from other people because my parents knew I didn't like them. But we were never judged from it. In fact the only times I played with barbies was when my brother played with me. I also have never felt like I was forbidden from going out, for example. I just never did. I wasn't forbidden from hanging out with my friends - but I always wanted to ask for advice and permission, because of my fear and shyness and insecurity. I was coddled a bit, and took the opportunity to go to school in a car instead of walking. I won't be forbidden from driving somewhere to be with friends. Although I have had my mom express concern and be like 'can't you drive her' (to my dad) or something. So that builds up insecurity - like the world is scary and I'm not capable - in just a subtle way. Does this make sense? And as a younger sibling, I also had that worry coming coming from my big brother, which adds up. Does that make sense?

Now, I never was asked by my mom to wear makeup or to shave my legs. She did ask me several times to shave my armpits though. But I appreciate that she didn't do it with the rest. And she gets sad when I cut my hair. I think she might think I do it partly to go against her, which isn't entirely untrue, either - I also partly do it from being fed up with expectations. There's no way I don't get a bit of a feeling of freedom and 'eff the patriarchy' (lol) when you cut you hair, at least if you have people in your life, or your hairdresser, pushing you back against doing it.

And I am iffy about sexuality issues and words. And periods and stuff. It's a lot taboo for me. I got to admit that. It's scary for me. But I don't think it's really my parent's fault or that they were strict. I really don't feel they were.

Who the hell told you you can't swim on your period? That's some nonsense right there. First, tampon and cups work great even in the water. Second, if you have a light flow you don't even need to use those. Swim away! I love festival too, and you should definitely go to them. You will manage the hygiene. Our genitals are not a bomb waiting to detonate, they don't need as much maintenance as you'd been told. Pads and a daily wet wipe (full body) will be plenty.

Lastly I want to reply to this... And I hear you, I really do. And I didn't unpack it, because I always need to hear this reaction to know if it's normal. I can't wear tampons. I just physically can't. I don't know the reason. And to be honest I'm really scared to go find out. I'm afraid of both the doctors, and of the appointment, and of the possible treatments. I've been in one of those specialists for a different reason.

And I kind of feel like my genitals are a bomb waiting to detonate, at times. I can't go a cycle without staining any and all pairs of underwear I use during it, I can't go two cycles (or one, even) without staining my sheets, or a pair of PJ pants. Even if I'm really careful and wake up during the night to change. This is what I mean about the festivals. If I'm going there to listen to music but ever 2 hours I need to go to the bathroom to change, losing 30 minutes in the queue and losing my place in the mob, separating all the time from my friends who are watching the concert - you know what I mean? Is that what I'm paying for - to be worried, and to miss half of the shows?

Sorry if this was TMI - this really wears me down but I'm always open to get some feedback.

I hope I made some sense and I wasn't annoying and again I'm sorry for taking so long to reply. As I said it was a bit tough and I had to think for a while and wind down before doing it.

[–]jelliknight 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I have a friend who works at a place who makes her wear a dress? What could I do if I were there?

As i said before, a lot of things you do will be a negotiation between what you want, what you need, and what other people want from you, and you have to draw your own line on how much you're willing to compromise. In most countries it's not actually legal to require women to wear dresses specifically, so if you live in one of those you could start with an e-mail to HR about the guidelines being a breech of equality law, (I'm just looking out for the company!), and they need to offer pants as an option. Or contract your union, it's their job to fight these battles for you. Or, you could simply wear thick leggings under the dress and a jacket over it, so you're more comfortable without making too many waves. You could talk to a boss or a senior person who seems cool and ask them about changing the requirements. But because I'm older, I'm more financially secure, and I'm experienced at being stubborn now I'd probably just buy business pants and a top that matches everyone else's uniforms in color and style and just start wearing it. This is what I mean when i talk about acting as if the rules don't apply to you. If challenged, i'd just say that I don't wear dresses and none of their offerings fit me properly, and I'm wearing professional attire that meets the dress codes. If they pushed, I'd make it an issue of sex discrimination, let them fire me, and then make a legal claim. They probably wouldn't because firing you and going through a court case is way more work than adding pants to the dress code. But it is a risk, which is why I say you have to pick your own line and I probably wouldn't make the same calls in every similar situation.

Something similar to this actually did happen to me. I worked on a mine site where you were required to wear a specific type of work pants. However, they were only provided in mens sizings. Because i have wide hips only the biggest mens sizes fit over them, and the pants were like clown pants around my waist and legs. So i just refused and wore my own jeans. Broke the uniform rules, and probably some OHS codes, but no one said a word for years, and when they did i just replied that the other pants don't fit me and im fine wearing my own. Later, when there was more women working there we were able to start ordering women's cuts.

Shaving is not a requirement. If you don't want to, don't. I don't get comments on it whether i shave or not. I take a pretty laid back approach to it, i shave if i feel like it and not if i don't, and the people around me seem to follow that sort of 'whatever' vibe.

I wanted to go in shorts like everyone else. I dreaded doing it though, I dreaded both shaving because my parents could see and comment, and I dreaded not shaving because I might have been seen totally different. I think that people will think things like...

My heart breaks for you and all other girls. You realize that this fear is not natural, it was taught to you as a way of making money? Darling, it's just hair, it grows back. Shave or don't shave, let people make their comments for or against whatever you do. But whatever you choose to do with your hair please wear the shorts and go for the swim. Life is short, youth is much shorter. Don't waste your precious time in fear of what other people might say about some tiny little hairs. As a compromise, you could try clippers and trim the hair without shaving it. It'll look like you're always a day or two after shaving and you'll get less itch growing back.

and I know people find it odd and even laugh and joke about it on her back - they accept that she doesn't abide by the rules, but they still can't help but judge and comment. This is what I'm afraid of, as well. I don't find her particularly flattering, but I know women who I do find flattering with short hair.

Oh people are absolutely joking and openly negative about my hair, behind my back and to my face. And it's not particularly flattering on me. I used to live in the tropics and kept my long hair in a pony tail ever day and one day i just realized how ridiculous it was. Every single day i'm washing it and brushing it, all just so I can tie it away for the whole day. What's the point? Might as well just cut it off. And it feels physically good, shampooing short hair. It dries quick, it doesn't get caught in stuff, it doesn't knot, it's great. When people I'm close to are negative about it I tell them "if you want to come to my house every morning and wash it and braid it for me, I'll grow it out. Otherwise you're asking me to do work every single day for something YOU want to look at. If you want it long, you look after it. No? That's what i thought." I don't care if it's flattering or not, I'm not looking at it all day. I would bet there's plenty of people making jokes behind my back but they're all too chicken to say it to my face ;) so who cares?

To be continued...

[–]iloveyou[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

As i said before, a lot of things you do will be a negotiation between what you want, what you need, and what other people want from you, and you have to draw your own line on how much you're willing to compromise.

That's a good call. There might always be something. I wouldn't wear my hair down, and I don't think I could dress a uniform that was too fitting because of sensory issues. But I totally would prioritize the sensory issues over embarassment and shame and could maybe wear a dress if I had to. I can't expect a workplace to just fit to my demands. But really I need to dress more professionally, which is also something I don't know how to do because I need baggier clothes again for sensory issues and comfort lol. I don't have makeup as well, so I wouldn't wear it to work if I were asked, just because I would have to learn how to do it and also use money on it. I could always make an excuse in that case to say it's bad for my skin if I wanted to negotiate.

In most countries it's not actually legal to require women to wear dresses specifically, so if you live in one of those you could start with an e-mail to HR about the guidelines being a breech of equality law

After your reply I tried researching for it, but I couldn't find any law specifically mentioning this, in fact I found articles saying this was almost a non-issue except in some exceptions. (which is a lie because my friend who's required to wear a dress is in a major company, not an unknown small one). It's tough. There is probably some equality law that could vaguely address it but I couldn't find it. It's weird how few are the articles that I found about this, and none were informative enough to help you defend yourself; they were mostly the kind of article that's a pat on the back of someone, "we are a gud country, nothing is bad, 100 years ago it was worse".

Also great story about the pants in the mine site. You're rad, working in a mine site, by the way.

My heart breaks for you and all other girls. You realize that this fear is not natural, it was taught to you as a way of making money? Darling, it's just hair, it grows back. Shave or don't shave, let people make their comments for or against whatever you do. But whatever you choose to do with your hair please wear the shorts and go for the swim. Life is short, youth is much shorter. Don't waste your precious time in fear of what other people might say about some tiny little hairs. As a compromise, you could try clippers and trim the hair without shaving it. It'll look like you're always a day or two after shaving and you'll get less itch growing back.

I feel so bad. I do feel like I'm wasting my youth. I even was imagining, today, being in my death bed and doing things I never did before without caring. I don't know if I would if it actually happened, because I might not magically stop caring, or I might not even be able to do it. Anyway, it's tough, because while those girls might think they wish they didn't care about me not shaving, I also want to belong - you know? I don't feel woman enough. For the more weird reasons. I see a girl with short hair - dang she's so cool, she's cooler than me, she's more woman than me. I see a girl wearing a baggy hoodie, she looks prettier and more womanly than me. I see a girl wearing fit pants or long hair, she's also more womanly than me. I see a girl with like... I'm sorry but it happens or has happened - with bigger boobs and her bra fits and I'm like, dang, she has a bra that fits and I don't, she's like 12 and poor girl for having them, but like, also cool because my mom never went buy a bra with me and when one time I wanted one, and asked her to go with me, and I said my size (I made measures at home), the lady laughed at me, and my mom just piled up on me saying that wasn't my size. But now some years later I think yes it is. But I am still too ashamed to order them home, and also I don't want to do it with my parents paying for it because once my dad even came in the living room chuckling and saying he had a movement in the bank that his card was used in a lingerie store, and it made no sense, he was very puzzled trying to solve a mystery. (Meanwhile, he lends me his card so I can buy clothes when I need to, SO WHY WOULDN'T I GO IN AN WOMEN'S UNDERWEAR SHOP?) - but I feel really scared and ashamed in those shops and also can't find my size, but it's the only way to get a bra nearer my size, because I can't order online because I don't want my family to see the package.

And like lots of things are a problem and I want to belong, but everyone else belongs more than I. And maybe not caring would be what would make me belong, but I still have gone to weddings in a dress and didn't shave, but just because I did it and might have seemed to others that maybe I didn't care, doesn't mean I didn't care and felt self-conscious.

I meet new people and I want to impress them so I am scared of showing my body, even less the unshaved body. I'll think of the trimming - but to be honest I feel that it's prettier and softer to have full grown leg hair that when people have those tiny little spiky hairs. I can try a trimmer - does a brother's beard trimmer work? (I can buy one like it and so I don't have to research)

[–]jelliknight 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do feel like I'm wasting my youth

It's a terrible feeling. I sometimes have the feeling that I'm wasting time. It is so precious. Go and have fun, doing anything. And if you don't know how to have fun, just go out and be around other people. Have experiences, even if they're all bad ones it's still worthwhile.

...she's more woman than me

Woman isn't a scale. You can't be more or less. My mentor (70+) says to me "There's no wrong way, only your way."

That bra story, oof. Yeah I get it. I wish you had a cool aunt or someone who could take you. Bra sizes are pretty variable depending on cut. They're supposed to be a "measurement" but there's a lot of wiggle in different styles. I tried on 10 recently before i found one that fitted properly, and needed different sizes in different brands. I know it's a bit too intimidating to go into a lingerie store for a fitting. There are online fit guides you can look at. Basically get the band comfortable first so that it's going straight around and not pulling up at the back or digging in too tight, then try different cup sizes (A, B, C etc) with the same band size. And it's just about what's comfortable to you. if it's technically not how it's supposed to fit but it feels and looks great, buy that one. And try the lingerie section of a bigger store like a walmart, that way it won't specify what you're buying. Your parents are a bit weirdly uncomfortable about normal stuff like underwear lol. I'm guessing you have a large cup and small band? They can be hard to find.

everyone else belongs more than I

Haha, i just had a discussion with a friend recently about being a teenager and always feeling like there was a massive party happening off somewhere where the cool people all go and you were the only one not invited, but since I've been an adult I've never met anyone who was actually AT that awesome party, I've only ever met people who were also 'not invited'. In reality its just a pretty universal feeling. It's made worse today by the internet and people not actually going and connecting with each other. You can have 1000 online friendships and you'll still feel very alone. Real life friendships are irreplaceable.

[–]jelliknight 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Continued:

Yes, that absolutely makes sense. Adults can unknowingly project their own insecurities onto their kids. It sounds like you have really good parents who are trying, but they are also in a culture which expects certain things of them. Your mum asking you to shave your armpits is not because SHE wants you to be hairless but because she's in her own compromise between wanting to let you express yourself and wanting to meet other peoples expectations of a Good Mother who raised Good Kids. And even though your parents are pretty open about what's "for girls" and "for boys" am I right in thinking that their social group and community (especially church) is a bit more strict? That's going to trickle through no matter how much you and they try to stop it. As I got older I've learned that my parents dealt with a whole lot of crap, and passed maybe 1% of it on to me. My mother was raised in a christian household with pretty firm ideas about what it means to be a Good Woman, but she didn't put those expectations on me, though i did embarrass her with my 'tomboy' ways sometimes and that made me feel self conscious. She did the best she could with what she was given, and I'll do the same when i have kids. It sounds weird but there's a philosophy about intergenerational trauma and intergenerational healing. Our parents often pass their own traumas or problems on to us, and we pass it on to our kids too. It goes on until it gets to someone strong enough to stop the cycle. But it works backwards as well, when you heal yourself from your mother/grandmother/greatgrandmother's pain, it forgives and frees them. You don't see it yet but when you're a rad independent woman, living life how you want regardless of other people's expectations your mother is going to be so happy that you're free that it will free her too.

Period stuff is SO important! it's normal to be uncomfortable about it, it's Taboo even in the most mainstream progressive parts of society. But it's a part of you, an important part, that you're going to be dealing with for a long time so it's really important to get in tune with it. I hear good things about Our Bodies, Ourselves, and i also think you should look into fertility awareness, just because i think every young woman should learn about her own body.

It's totally normal to not be able to or comfortable using tampons, for a bunch of different reasons. I had problems with this when i was young because I had what's called a Septate Hymen which is where there's a band of tissue that bridges across the vagina and makes two smaller openings. The band itself has no sensation, but if it pulls it hurts. So removing tampons was really tricky and painful. I spent a lot of my teen years just feeling like a weirdo, and eventually learned what it was, and then got it removed a few years ago (painless, didn't even need a local anesthetic). It's just a thing that happens sometimes. There are lots of variations of this, including microperforate hymens where the hole is so small that period can get out but nothing can get in. Get a mirror and open up google, and you will be able to figure out for yourself if it's something like that. There's also a condition called vaginismus which is where your body reacts to the sensation by tensing and clamping down so its hard to insert anything. But tampons are also kind of tricky in general because they absorb your natural lubrication as you try to insert them and they always sort of turn off target for me, if you want to try using them start with ones with applicator tubes and a slim fit. See, this is why we've got to talk about this stuff! Most things have a very simple solution and literally half the population has already been through the struggles of tampons. BTW, i don't use them at all any more. I use cups and pads. I only ever used them if i was swimming or something on a heavy day. You can PM me if you want to talk more specifics about this in private.

I can't go a cycle without staining any and all pairs of underwear I use during it, I can't go two cycles (or one, even) without staining my sheets, or a pair of PJ pants.

Feel this. So hard. I call it 'making japanese flags' and it still happens to me. Usually your period will settle down a bit as you get older and providing you stay away from hormonal contraceptives (in my experience they make flow heavier) but it's also perfectly normal and healthy to have a heavy flow. Long term i think you'll want to figure out how to use cups as you get a longer time of use out of them and they leak less than any other method. They're tricky though, so you want to be on good terms with your vagina first. Hot tip - you don't need a bathroom to change a pad, your tent will do. You can even do it without taking your pants down in any private corner providing you're not wearing like skinny jeans or something. As for stain, cold water and Sard Wonder Soap. I don't know if it's sold where you are but it's bar soap for cleaning and it's miraculous. Rub it on, rub the cloth against itself, rinse, and you'll get rid of the stain. This is also handy if you ever commit a murder and need to get rid of the evidence. Happy to keep chatting, no time pressure xx

[–]iloveyou[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, that absolutely makes sense. Adults can unknowingly project their own insecurities onto their kids. It sounds like you have really good parents who are trying, but they are also in a culture which expects certain things of them. Your mum asking you to shave your armpits is not because SHE wants you to be hairless but because she's in her own compromise between wanting to let you express yourself and wanting to meet other peoples expectations of a Good Mother who raised Good Kids. (...)

Thank you so much for understanding and giving that insight. It matters a lot to me to have someone recognize that parents can fail but it doesn't mean they are supposed to be ignored to the rest of our lives because they are bad parents tm, as much as I would understand the protective stance of those who advocate for distance and appreciate it.

And even though your parents are pretty open about what's "for girls" and "for boys" am I right in thinking that their social group and community (especially church) is a bit more strict?

Maybe. I don't know. I've always felt accepted at the church. I don't really see anyone criticizing me for wearing hoodies or anything. I never had to wear dresses to church or anything, I dress normal. I didn't have people criticizing my hair although in church is a place where you can find older women with short hair. Although it's also where in conversation with some friends most said they thought short hair was for older women, not younger. As a preference, not as a supposed rule. That was the only case I remember my hair being a conversation-starter. So... I dunno? I mean there sure are people in there who are hardcore gender-apologists (like, women are thing and men are another thing) but I think they're actually a minority - as much as they can be. There are also those who are 'casual sexists', of course. But aren't those kind of everywhere?

I'll reply to the other part in private message, because it gets a bit too TMI for me to be comfortable talking in a public forum.

Thank you though for the replies, and for the reassurance that you're happy to keep chatting and with no time pressure <3

[–]jelliknight 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It matters a lot to me to have someone recognize that parents can fail but it doesn't mean they are supposed to be ignored to the rest of our lives because they are bad parents

We don't get perfect people in our lives. Just people. You wont get a perfect mother, perfect friend, perfect husband etc. All just regular people who try their best.