I hate how the trans community has claimed Mulan

submitted by Beth-BR from self.GenderCritical

l commented sth about the reflection song and I got downvoted becouse the person thought it implied I thought the post was trans. I obviously get why the song is important to them and how it fits perfectly but that doesn't mean Mulan's trans. She didn't pose as a man, she posed as a soldier. She isn't singing about her being a woman, but a bride. The whole point of the movie is her being a woman and how she's kickass. Any one can see the movie as they want but that doesn't mean she's trans. Just like Elsa is not a lesbian just becouse fans want it that way. We don't know yet.

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[–]squintypreyeyes 75 insightful - 2 fun75 insightful - 1 fun76 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Mulan isn't even slightly gender non-conforming. She doesn't even become a soldier because she wants to, she does it to save her dad. Then immediately goes back to her regular life when it's all over.

[–]questioningtw 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. She also didn't fit in at all with the men and had to basically use her dexterity and wit to get the arrow because she couldn't use brute strength like the men. The female character from Brave is another one that trans people try to claim as trans and it honestly makes me more and more gender critical. No, she was not trans.....STOP IT!

[–]unexpectedly_local 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

These are people who demand complete and total acceptance from others. I believe that they cannot fathom the idea of sacrificing a part of yourself for someone else. Mulan wasn't even necessarily against being a bride, but was anxious that she wouldn't live up to her community's idea of the "perfect bride" and wouldn't be accepted for who she is. She accepted being Sheng's bride because he accepted her for who she is.

[–]inneedofspace 57 insightful - 2 fun57 insightful - 1 fun58 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I hate it so much, I was and still am somewhat of a tomboy growing up we don't have many in pop culture. Women are not "cis" we did not sign up for the way society sees us. I know some claim it's too easy or bigoted to go "what about the children" but I am afraid of girls telling their parents they hate being a girl and their parents taking it a step further, it was one of the things I worried about back when I seen the trans community as no big deal years later here we are science denial, "cis", silencing, transplaining and all.

[–]bellatrixbells 39 insightful - 1 fun39 insightful - 0 fun40 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It just reinforces the notion that to be a woman is to willingly be submissive and an idiot in a dress, while being man means being tough and strong. But still completely disregarding our essential biological role in humanity's survival.

[–][deleted] 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It just reinforces the notion that to be a woman is to willingly be submissive and an idiot in a dress, while being man means being tough and strong.

That's why it's so offensive. Mulan exists in a cultural context where there were real women like Wu Zetian and fictionally harem dramas where even if women were imprisoned within the palace, they fought for favor to increase their family's political power on the outside. These were not passive actors even if their dresses are pretty.

[–]kwallio 47 insightful - 2 fun47 insightful - 1 fun48 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Also all the historical transing, like Joan of Arc? Come on. Also I saw a post on Tumblr that called Toph trans-masc, like give it a rest she was quite clearly a GIRL.

[–]NDG 45 insightful - 2 fun45 insightful - 1 fun46 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Joan of Arc has been a kickass role model for Catholic girls for centuries - she’s like every Catholic school girl’s favorite saint. TRAs trying to co-opt Joan of Arc is infuriating to me.

[–]Feather 25 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I was raised Catholic. Joan was my confirmation name, and I wasn't the only one.

(For non-Catholics: when you are deemed old enough to fully accept the church's teachings, you go through a confirmation ceremony to symbolize your transition into that stage. In many forms of Catholicism, you choose a new "religious" name. It isn't something people will actually call you, but it symbolizes how you define your relation to the religion as you move forward in life.)

[–]questioningtw 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I read a book about Joan of Arc that was so good. She has been a symbol for so many things from feminism to revolutions. She was not trans and people saw her as fulfilling this weird prophecy where France would be saved by a maiden. She also didn't really do much fighting and was more of a strategist and actually took on a fairly feminine role. These people should pick up a book sometime instead of being: i want Joan of Arc to be a man so she is!!!!

[–]fijupanda 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

so they went after Joan of Arc... that's it, now they're on my permanent shitlist forever.

[–]questioningtw 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Florence Nightengale and Amelia Earhart have gotten called transgender too. Oh and Kathrine Hepburn and Willa Cather. See it is totally ok for them to do this because trans men have no role models! Why can't you just admire them as the women they are? You can't twist reality into what you want.

[–]Shinjin_Nana 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They went after Hatshepsut too, because she portrayed herself as male to fit in with the 'kingly' nature of ancient egyptian royal power.

[–]kwallio 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Things like this really make me irritated - the fake beard etc that Hatshepsut wore were marks of power, not being trans. They really like to ignore all cultural context don't they.

[–]Shinjin_Nana 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

TRAs like to make stuff up on the fly and rewrite history and biology to their whim. Material reality is not their friend.

[–]LoganBlade 42 insightful - 4 fun42 insightful - 3 fun43 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

strong warrior woman

must be a man

[–]Thatstealthygal 35 insightful - 2 fun35 insightful - 1 fun36 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Well she DOES pose as a man. However, she's not saying she IS a man. She's a girl who dresses as a man in order to take her father's role as a soldier, both because Girls Aren't Allowed and also for her own protection. I don't understand why people find that so hard to understand. Posing as a man is not the same as adopting a male identity by preference because you think you are really a man inside.

[–][deleted] 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Isn't part of her motivation also the fact that she doesn't want her aging father to go off to war when he was clearly in no shape to fight? Mulan's crossdressing wasn't a matter of gender identity, she's clearly uncomfortable and awkward when pretending to be a man the entire time. The whole movie was meant to show that girls and women could also be physically strong and challenge sexist gender roles and stereotypes. At the end she even sheds the false male persona. It's like they didn't even watch it to the end.

[–]Feather 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, and the entire theme of the movie is how she's worried they'll find out who she TRULY is (a woman) and also about the unusual strengths granted to her by being a woman (like figuring out clever ways to match men in battle).

[–]C3P0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Isn't that what transgender people are doing though? They know they are merely pretending for some finite period of time (it certainly didn't start when they were born).

I'll expound that transgender people don't actually believe they are the opposite sex. That would as preposterous as believing one has gills or flippers attached to their body.

[–]courage2courage 27 insightful - 11 fun27 insightful - 10 fun28 insightful - 11 fun -  (0 children)

It's funny how they identify with Mulan. Really they're more like the soldiers rushing into the water when she's trying to bathe in peace.

[–]sisterinsomnia 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They have claimed not only Mulan but also George Sand, Joan of Arc and any other woman in history who ever did anything not completely feminine. That leaves us vulva-women with only a handful of possible role models, but then why would a submissive, passive and pink-loving gender (the new definition of womanhood in some circles) need role models?

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

George Sand had a couple of male lovers:

'In 1822, at the age of eighteen, Sand married Casimir Dudevant[11] (1795–1871; first name "François"), out-of-wedlock son of Baron Jean-François Dudevant. She and Dudevant had two children: Maurice (1823–1889) and Solange (1828–1899). In 1825 she had an intense but perhaps platonic affair with the young lawyer Aurélien de Sèze.[12] In early 1831, she left her husband and entered upon a four- or five-year period of "romantic rebellion." In 1835, she was legally separated from Dudevant, and took custody of their children.[13]

Sand had romantic affairs with Jules Sandeau (1831), Prosper Mérimée, Alfred de Musset (summer 1833 – March 1835), Louis-Chrysostome Michel, Pierre-François Bocage, Charles Didier, Félicien Mallefille, Louis Blanc, and composer Frédéric Chopin (1837–1847).[14]' (wikipedia)

Suuuure these men must have been all into transoids...

[–]Amareldys 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Didn't she also have an affair with the Countess played by Bernadette, or was that invented by the movie?

[–]Feather 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Me too.

TRAs: If a woman is strong, she's a man.

TRAs: If a woman ever pretended to be man, it surely couldn't have been because that was what she had to do in order to accomplish her goals.

They don't see that this sort of thing wasn't about "transmen." It was about females being so very oppressed that the only way they'd be allowed to do things they wanted to do was by hiding what they were. It wasn't, "I'm a man in a woman's body." It was, "I'm a woman in a man's world so, unfortunately, I have to pretend to be one of them if I want to get shit done."

The song, "I'll make a man out of you," was meant to be ironic. The woman was NOT a man; she was better than the men.

[–]LesbiSilly 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I totally understand. I do think people are allowed to have headcanons. But don't force it on other people! That should be fandom law.

[–]limeindecoconut 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I loved Milan because of her female strength.

Why do they "trans" characters and people from history? Don't they say that misgendering is "literally violence"? Declaring an identity for a non consenting person is so gross.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same reason Mormons baptize non-Mormons after death - the dead can't protest your ideology.

[–]MarkJefferson 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They're transing Mulan now? They seem to have taken the song, "I'll Make a Man Out of You" too seriously.

[–]MenAreFragileBabies 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wish we could all just recognize that the trans phenomenon is a recent cultural invention. If you could ask the real Mulan (if she even existed) or say other prominent "trans" people of history (Dr. Barry, e.g.) they would never had said they were trans. I guess that would go against the groupthink though to admit people can just pretend to be the opposite sex for their own ulterior motives though. Ulterior motives like: to become a soldier, to become a doctor, to harass women more easily, to make everyone an unwilling participant in your sexual fetish, or to avoid the embarrassment of being bad at sports!

[–]midgetmetalhead19 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Any strong ‘female’ lead has gotta be man being a woman. Genuine strong women don’t fit their narrative. We’ve got to be quiet, weak and submissive.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Does this mean that they object to the casting of Liu Yifei as Mulan in the 2020 live-action version of the movie because she is not trans identified in rl? That would be rich given that one genre of Chinese TV drama almost always involves the trope of women dressed as men for at least part of the drama.

[–]fijupanda 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

oh for crying out loud. Hands off of Mulan.... Oh, they better not go after Joan of Arc.

[–]questioningtw 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh I got called selfish on Reddit for saying she was a woman and it is offensive saying she was a man. The beauty of the story was that she saved her fathers life by becoming a soldier in his place. Making her really a dude after all takes away from that and makes the story incredibly misogynistic. Also Disney's Mulan was very much a stereotypical modern Disney female character: she didn't fit in, she was dreamy, she had an animal side kick. Also Reflections is like Colors of the Wind, Part of Your World, and other Disney princess songs. it is a song lots of people can relate to. They need to write their own damn stories instead of trying to make characters trans. Shit, they even try making real life strong women trans.

[–]fuckupaddams 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

God I hope Elsa is gay