TRAs are going full science denial now. by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 47 insightful - 2 fun47 insightful - 1 fun48 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Sexual rejection requires no justification or explanation whatsoever. To posit otherwise is a form of coercion that approaches the mindset of a rapist. It is totalitarian to police people's sexual desires or shame their dating preferences.

What Wikipedia says about overwhelming consensus on trans women... by 68plus57 in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why do people acquiesce on the pronouns? I find it offensive that speech is policed and that I'm expected to be an accomplice in someone's misogyny by referring to a man acting out a stereotype as a she. How is it not just like blackface/transracialism? Why isn't womanface equally offensive?

Are the TQs right or wrong in saying that the brains of gay people are structured like the brains of their opposite sex by which they mean gay men are psychologically women and gay women are psychologically men? by EverydayIsSad in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As if they can conclude anything by measuring the size of certain structures in the brain. Our knowledge of the brain is far too rudimentary to make that type of leap. I remember reading criticism of Simon Levay's work which argues something like this. For gay brains they used samples from HIV positive men, or something to this effect. My point is even the selection of who is gay and who is straight is problematic. If they are selecting based on gender stereotypes, who is to say that a lifetime of repeating those specific stereotyped behaviors are the cause and the brain structures the effect, and not the other way around? Neuroplasticity.

Punch gay men if they reject you by artetolife in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 26 insightful - 4 fun26 insightful - 3 fun27 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

It's not the Left. It's just stupidity.

Had a phone date with a new guy ruined over trans rights when neither of us are even trans by nbailey73 in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 25 insightful - 10 fun25 insightful - 9 fun26 insightful - 10 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, and the Right never suffers from totalitarian/authoritarian impulses. Just freedom and democracy - a clean record.

what are your thoughts on the t? by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 23 insightful - 4 fun23 insightful - 3 fun24 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

T is for Trojan horse. It is a rollback of women's and gay liberation. It is deeply reactionary and aligned with heterosexuality and the patriarchy. It's "woman face". While anyone should be able to dress or act however they like as long as they aren't hurting anyone, saying it makes them a woman is just false on the face of it, and if they are parodying women it is insulting (like blackface). There is a nuanced case for drag queens that are parodying femininity, which is an unfreedom foisted upon women and criticized by feminists (a kind of progressive mockery of gender - this is how Ru Paul describes it. He doesn't consider himself a woman).

Sex reassignment surgery, a brutality in the same class as lobotomy, was invented by straight doctors and is pure quackery. It is sterilization and genital mutilation for gay people. It is a form of conversion therapy. When people question whether or not one should have to be an adult to opt for it, I think to myself, "should one have to be an adult in order to opt to have their eyeballs scooped out?". That doctors do this to people is shameful. No one should opine on this topic until after they have watched the procedure on YouTube.

The T is the greatest threat to gay and lesbian liberation since the movement began. If it succeeds it erases gays and lesbians. But if it provokes a backlash and fails, it will be perceived as a reaction against the "LGBT" movement, and sweep away freedom and rights for gays and lesbians along with them.

What this demonstrates is that theory is important. Big tent, love everyone politics must not be allowed to ride roughshod over theory - and the most advanced explanation of what gay and lesbian liberation are came from the radical feminists. David Fernbach's "The Spiral Path: A Gay Contribution to Human Survival" is in my opinion the best theoretical elucidation from a gay male perspective.

Radical feminists saw this coming as far back as the 70s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfoYUs4Q3a4

At the end of the clip above, a transsexual (what it was called back then) shouts "gay liberation: screw you!".

Had a phone date with a new guy ruined over trans rights when neither of us are even trans by nbailey73 in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Here here. For what it's worth, despite how they self identify, I don't see trans as part of the Left. I see them as a Trojan horse of gender stereotypes from yesteryear, and a reaction against women's and gay liberation. (Actually, many of them openly identify as conservative).

Making sure we keep transphobia out by ThiccDropkick in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why can't people just say what they want and others have a thicker skin? What good is debate if you can't say what you really think? Ru Paul got ostracized for saying tranny, and he's said it his entire career. Why should there be language police? The TRAs don't respect us one iota. I've never understood why people get hung up on words, and it seems comically absurd in a context where greater violations and aggression is manifest, to bother over perceived (but not even intended) microaggressions. I don't like having to self censor or police speech at all. If someone doesn't like it, why can't they just scan down to the next comment?

The support for LGBT is dropping for the first time in ages thanks to TRA's and nonbinaries. by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm surprised to read you dislike radical feminism (2nd wave feminism). Like Sheila Jeffreys and David Fernbach? I wouldn't be able to understand why sexual orientation is policed without their contributions.

Making sure we keep transphobia out by ThiccDropkick in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't understand what is so bad about transphobia. Trans is a frightening ideology that causes real harm to people, including kids. Being disrespectful in discourse is not transphobia; it is immaturity.

The Ongoing Death of Free Speech: Prominent ACLU Lawyer Cheers Suppression of a New Book by joogabah in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the point is to defend speech even when you don't like it. That's the only way free speech exists. Any attempt at judgment over what sort of speech is legitimate or acceptable immediately negates freedom of speech and curtails the ability to think. Humans are not equipped to make such judgments without bias and emotion, so free speech absolutism is what guarantees our ability to be free to think what we want, and not end up in a tyranny of thought police. No one ever bans inoffensive speech, so the purpose of freedom of speech is to stop those who find anything offensive from shutting it down. Historically this has been championed as a central freedom of America and one of the reasons we put up with no social safety net (which is another topic and makes no sense to me), but recent generations seem to have forgotten.

Making sure we keep transphobia out by ThiccDropkick in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Will someone please explain why it is bad to be transphobic? I'm a little frightened of intolerant zealots in an aggressive cult trying to force people to see the world the way they do. Just because they have some mild mannered members, one cannot criticize the clearly erroneous and harmful ideology? It is not possible for humans to change their sex. I SEE 4 FINGERS!

The support for LGBT is dropping for the first time in ages thanks to TRA's and nonbinaries. by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, that's a caricature or maybe what some stupid teen activist spews. There is some serious theoretical work tho that isn't so crude and off putting. Also, I think you're confusing radical feminism with 3rd wave liberal feminism.

TRA Twitter poll "Are Transwomen women?" - majority of voters clicked No by Criticallacitirc in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Personally, I don't see a contradiction between radical feminism and men's rights activism. The problem is gender, and the best person to explain this is Warren Farrell. Both sexes are subject to the unfreedom of their respective genders, and no one alive today created this system. Women are objectified as sex objects; men are objectified as success objects. Women are subordinated to men; men's lives are worth less as they are sacrificed in war and dangerous jobs. It's 2 sides of the same coin, apparently inevitable out of necessity at a certain stage of human development that we are progressing beyond. Neither struggle for liberation necessarily minimizes the other.

TERF ROAD! Call the police! by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

BAHAHAHAHA! A tire mark is defacing? What do they expect on a street? I hate being associated with trans because of the acronym. The backlash and rollback is going to include us because people constantly hear it as "LGBT". I've wondered if that was the plan all along.

Making sure we keep transphobia out by ThiccDropkick in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It advocates for hormones and genital surgeries, that sterilize and mutilate, without changing one's sex at all. It erases women and homosexuality by redefining basic words. It pollutes political discourse by attempting to shut down any disagreement. It goes after people's careers when they disagree. It actively seeks to ban forums created to discuss the implications of its ideas. It frames heresy against its ideology as "hate". It reifies sex role stereotypes. It pushes these ideas on children. It hates actual people and labels them TERFs, and encourages targeting them for harassment. It is antithetical to women's and gay liberation, and rolls back progress made towards equality and freedom from sexual stereotypes. It takes over organizations, and spaces set up for women and gay people. It is illiberal, unfriendly, narcissistic, aggressive, and cult-like in its zealotry.

Making sure we keep transphobia out by ThiccDropkick in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I noticed the rules ban using the word "mutilation" to describe trans operations. Is that transphobic? Has anyone watched a "sex reassignment surgery" on YouTube? I'm of the opinion this is the lobotomy of our time. I can't even stomach circumcision, and see it as involuntary mutilation.

lesbians and feminists on drag queens by joogabah in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

From 1977, at the end of this clip, the transsexual shouts: "gay liberation: screw you!"

I know some of you don't like Akkad but here's a good take-down of both Riley Dennis and Lindsey Ellis' video about J.K. rowling. by xandit in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Always nice to see a defense of JK Rowling, but this Akkad dude still doesn't get it right. All males have always been and always will be 100% male. All females have always been and will always be female. Intersex conditions are not relevant to the trans debate, since trans people are not intersex. And even intersex are not both or neither, they are interesting abnormalities that underscore and reveal the relationship between genotype and phenotype, and the processes that work in concert to produce human males and females, and what happens when some part of that is absent. Gender is completely socially constructed. There are plenty of masculine women and feminine men. The POLITICAL refusal (that is often unconscious) to not follow the typical sex role stereotype is what it means to be gay; that is, it very often leads to a gay sexual orientation. It's not the only route to gayness (there are other forms and causes of homosexuality), but it is a major one, and that deviation is what people notice when their gaydar pings. I think it is easier to understand with lesbians, perhaps, that they would not develop erotic attachments to men, if they do not (for whatever reason unique to each person) develop a submissive femininity that would lend itself to that. I also think (like Freud) that homosexual desire is primary due to childhood sex segregation and the fact of being one's own sex, so that one's own form cannot be alien in the way that the opposite form can be, particularly if sex segregation is extended. It is quite possible to not even see the opposite sex in the nude for the first couple of decades of one's life, while routinely interacting in the nude with the same sex (this is typical in many societies). So a lack of attraction to the opposite sex that gay people feel is not exactly symmetrical to the lack of attraction that straight people (at least claim to) feel. Finally, homosexuality is verboten, so engaging in it is a form of rebellion, whereas heterosexuality is conformist. Living in a patriarchy that oppresses women and demands heterosexuality is the context in which this all plays out. And just because it feels like one was born that way, does not mean that one was. I didn't choose to speak English, and yet, I do. And that runs in families too, but it is not biological. Humans have the greatest capacity to learn of any species. Sexual desire is learned in people, without them realizing they are learning it, and it is bound up with gender which is imposed by patriarchy, to facilitate the production of human beings and their two most vital roles for the nation: soldiers and mothers. THAT, is old school radical feminism and gay liberation and makes the most sense to me.

Making sure we keep transphobia out by ThiccDropkick in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I disagree. I'm a free speech absolutist. When I was a kid, I remember frequently hearing "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." When did the commitment to freedom of speech (a prerequisite to thinking) go away? I don't believe it is possible to bully or attack someone you aren't even addressing and don't know exists. When talking about ideas, what they are calling hate is actually just heresy. Well I'm an unrepentant heretic on this issue.

Why are some gays so brainwashed into dating/sex with trans people? by Eurowoman24 in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

At least "gay" originally meant a bachelor and was also a synonym for happy, instead of that slur "queer" that was used to terrorize men to go to Vietnam. I hate the word "queer". Might as well say "perv" or "weirdo". Weirdo pride!

Also, I believe absent gender indoctrination, same sex desire is accessible to anyone; it is not a genetic condition. That doesn't mean everyone will develop a taste for it but the most glaring, primary reason it is avoided is because nations universally condemn it (even the ones that accept it now).

Weird feeling about marriage equality by Lesbianese in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality and cannot because the word wasn't invented until the 1890s in English and originated in the 1860s in German. The Bible says nothing about lesbians. It condemns adultery (sex outside of marriage) and "men who lie with men as men lie with women", which can be interpreted to mean penetration. To put it clearly and without euphemism, it condemns anal sex. Given the severe biological consequences inherent in that act, the prohibition is understandable. Even if you think it can be made safe (I don't; and there are other reasons for opposing it - like pain and incontinence and feces revulsion), they didn't have condoms and lube back then. The Bible forbids sex during menstruation as unclean. These are specific prohibitions on acts, with no concept of "gay" or "lesbian" orientation, which is a modern innovation that doesn't even go back to the 19th century.

The stories of Ruth and Naomi and Jonathan and David clearly show passionate same sex love is not biblically problematic.

However, marriage is woman slavery. We get a reformed, sanitized version today, but wives used to be the literal property of their husbands. This is not an institution to aspire to.

Had a phone date with a new guy ruined over trans rights when neither of us are even trans by nbailey73 in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

"Synopsis: The Gendercator is a satirical take on surgical body modification and gender. The story uses the “Rip Van Winkle” mode l to extrapolate from the feminist 70s to a frightening 2048 where politics and technology have conspired to mandate two gender “choices”: Macho male or Barbie babe. In this dystopian future, those whose gender presentation does not comply will be GENDERCATED.

Distinctions: The Gendercator is the only film ever accepted, programmed and then cancelled from San Francisco’s Frameline Film Festival in 31 yearsdue to an email campaign consisting of 130 identical emails."

I think AskGayBros hit peak trans in this thread by fuck_reddit in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because they are a Trojan horse. They represent an ingenious plan to roll back gay liberation, and get gay people to celebrate it along the way. Sociopaths are smart... and persuasive with their sophistry.

Making sure we keep transphobia out by ThiccDropkick in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is a cult of irrational beliefs populated by zealots who do not practice the sort of "kid gloves" treatment of others that they preach. It is ok to say that one fears that ideology. It isn't personal.

Making sure we keep transphobia out by ThiccDropkick in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I think transphobia is fear of trans ideology, and is a legitimate position. Mudslinging and insults are just bad behavior and shouldn't be part of any adult discourse, regardless of the topic.

Making sure we keep transphobia out by ThiccDropkick in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But what if you are legitimately afraid of an idea that, in Iran at least, compels homosexuals to have genital surgery because homosexuality is punished by hanging, while the state pays for sex changes? That's a frightening ideology. Remember The Gendercator? That lesbian filmmaker saw all of this coming years ago.

I'm naziphobic. Is that a hateful thing? Some ideas are just scary.

Censorship Thursday - share your sub bans here! by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, the moderators of this sub stopped a conversation yesterday for no good reason.

TRA Twitter poll "Are Transwomen women?" - majority of voters clicked No by Criticallacitirc in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it is undeniable that men are used after the advent of civilization as soldiers and women as mothers. This is the economic source of their objectification, and only in our time is the economic necessity of these two roles negated (overpopulation and total war means total annihilation), and hence the possibility of transcending them.

What Wikipedia says about overwhelming consensus on trans women... by 68plus57 in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I still have an issue with "woman" being in there. Their "presentation" of woman is a stereotype. A woman can look very much like a man (look at "transmen"). Transwomen are feminine men or effeminate men or cross dressers (transvestites), some of whom go to hormonal and surgical extremes to match the conventional feminine aesthetic that many women have fought to be free from.

Why do people on askgaybros think we were a hatesub? by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think this fight can be won without admitting that trans ideology is not only erroneous, but harmful and destructive. Fear of trans ideology, which is bigoted, aggressive, narcissistic and mutilating, is rational. I'm not afraid of the transphobia label. I'm naziphobic too. It has nothing to do with disrespecting any particular individual.

THIS is what asexual looks like... by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They are the pseudo left and actually share a belief in sex role stereotypes going back to the 50s. The real leftists are those radical feminists they demonize as "TERFs".

New Saidit Feature: Now you can block individual users, so all their posts and comments will be automatically hidden from your view by magnora7 in SaidIt

[–]joogabah 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Freedom of speech means the freedom to offend. Inoffensive speech is (by definition) never subject to bans. There's only 2 options - either free speech is inviolable, or you set up speech policing regimes that end up biting you. This is elementary and has been known for generations. Honesty, I don't want to live in a world where racists aren't allowed to speak their racism. How is anyone supposed to talk back to them or give reasons why they are wrong so that, even if you don't change their minds, you may be inoculating young minds who come across the arguments. When you shut it all down, you make it sexier to people just starting to be curious about the world. They'll want to know why they are not allowed to access the ideas. So just let the idiots speak for themselves. Very often they discredit themselves with their own words. Shutting down speech gives it an aura of legitimacy because it implies there is no effective counter speech. We've already experienced that on Reddit. They don't have a good counter argument so LGBDropTheT was silenced.

TRA Twitter poll "Are Transwomen women?" - majority of voters clicked No by Criticallacitirc in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Radical feminism asserts that females are objectified for their ability to produce new human beings. The men's rights movement asserts that men are objectified for their ability to fight wars and sacrifice themselves in the most dangerous jobs (and provide for families). Communism asserts that workers are objectified in order to create wealth for an elite class of rulers that is so wealthy, it can "earn" money based on passive income (profit, interest and rent (i.e. financialization)) and hire managers so that affluent capitalists don't even have to be aware of what enterprises they own. I do not see these facts negated worldwide. I see us in transition away from this, but still in a very early stage. True human freedom will only exist when individuals can do and be whatever they aspire to be, without being forced into roles. This has not been achieved worldwide. As a corollary, war cannot go away (and it threatens all life on the planet) until nation states are ended, and we regard ourselves as one planetary people. This relates to homosexuality to the extent that sexual discipline and heterosexuality are part and parcel of these enforced roles. In a world of true freedom, homosexuality and heterosexuality will be meaningless, as one is enforced, and the other is a rebellion or rejection of the other, even if it is not consciously chosen.

TRA Twitter poll "Are Transwomen women?" - majority of voters clicked No by Criticallacitirc in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Objectification is when a person is seen and used as a means to an end, and forced into that role, because of some socially useful aspect of their body. It isn't a matter of good or bad. It is a matter of freedom and necessity. Since human civilization and the advent of organized war (but not in earlier hunter gatherer times), soldiers and mothers are absolutely necessary for the continuation of human societies. Slaves are also objectified for their ability to labor. Typically the descendants of conquered peoples, they are not seen as individuals or equals, but as a means to an end for the ruling classes to exploit.

So where do we go from here? by IvanAlexey in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Can you elaborate? What did they say that you find bizarre?

How should LGB actually go about dropping the T(Q+)? by PenseePansy in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Great idea! Have you read Gender Hurts, by Sheila Jeffreys? She's outstanding.

Their reaction to us beinf banned. Sickening. by TheCatsEyeNebula in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gay marriage was a sop that derailed the movement. Heterosexualty is based on the economic necessity of militarism and motherhood. Being allowed to join the military and get married, is basically the opposite of gay liberation. Gay liberation was freedom from gender (which is defined by the roles of soldier and subordinated mother).

How to support LGB youth who have gender dysphoria by reluctant_commenter in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

No way. I don't want to take on a label that means "weirdo", and the Q is already firmly attached to the T.

Masculinity is the world trying to make soldiers out of boys. Femininity is the world trying to make mothers and submissive wives out of girls. They are not innate, and so there are myriad exceptions, standouts and outliers. Rather than making these people feel bad about themselves, acknowledge that they are actually part of an emerging EMANCIPATION from being merely cannon fodder and subordinated baby makers! War and overpopulation have grown to the extent that they are no longer socially necessary, they have negated entirely to the point they threaten all life on the planet! And this is apparently having unconscious impacts on human sexuality and social relating. And idiots are coming up with ignorant theories based on unexamined conventional assumptions of what it means to be a man or a woman. Add a hefty dose of academic postmodernism which questions objectivity itself, and you get institutional legitimization of something absurd and deeply reactionary.

Hey, sorry if this doesn't belong here, but can someone explain to me what 'queer' is supposed to be? Why is it a letter in the alphabet club? by Smolders1 in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I find it rich that I can't yell "foul" when someone uses the word "queer" but misgendering is in some places against the law. If it is all about their feelings, then what about my feelings? Because it isn't about their feelings. I find it hard to believe that anyone actually suffers any psychological harm from being called the wrong pronouns. The rhetoric is sophistry with a hidden agenda. That's why it doesn't make sense to anyone who actually parses what is being said. It appeals to unthinking, feeling types who think they are protecting the vulnerable, when they are actually being marshaled to destroy gay liberation.

It seems like Google started burying this page in their search results? by Astrid2448 in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"saidit lgbdropthet"

Strangely, that only works for me if I include the quotes (and then Google shows the page as if it were searched without quotes). Searching without quotes doesn't show it.

The Post-Purge Gender Ideology Push in Gaybros & associated subs by JulienMayfair in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for stating that. Where are people's commitment to freedom of speech? It used to be inviolable. And it only ever applies to offensive speech. Who bans or complains about inoffensive speech?!?

Making sure we keep transphobia out by ThiccDropkick in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think incivility should be tolerated toward anyone. That includes but is not specific to trans people. Everyone is a unique individual and deserves respect. This should go without saying and doesn't need a special term.

Transphobia is a slur against people who are opposed to trans ideology, but that ideology has many things about it to fear (look at how grotesquely it presents in Iran).

Stonewall UK gets more and more... interesting by Chunkeeguy in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There was always a contradiction in Affirmative Action, trying to fight racism by reifying race and employing racial preferences. Identity politics is a dead end. The real issue is class, not race, even though racism most definitely oppresses minorities. The identity politics solution is unconsciously also racist (understandable, since it is a solution born in a racist society). There has to be a better way to end racism without these predictable consequences that inflame and support it.

Does Communism support free speech? by LarrySwinger2 in funny

[–]joogabah 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Communism understands change and that human institutions and "nature" are manifestations of an economic substructure. "Communist" nations today do not think they live under communism. That is their goal, not their condition. They see themselves as the dictatorship of the proletariat competing with the dictatorships of the bourgeoisie, working to usher in a world not based on imperialism, war, and repeated capitalist depressions - conditions that bring out the worst in people.

I still can't understand how Rowling is getting absolutely slammed over reasonable, empathetic and what should be non-controversial statements. I feel like I'm going crazy here. by zerosis in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those who value truth have to be willing to lose friends and family. I'm not religious, but I think that is the meaning of Luke 14:26 (taking this as an allegory since Christ in the Greek is Logos - or logic/reason). That is very hard for anyone to do.

Had a phone date with a new guy ruined over trans rights when neither of us are even trans by nbailey73 in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Remember "The Gendercator"?

First case in Italy of parents of a 13 years old boy asking for a gender change. It begun..... by Ossidiana in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I read puberty blockers are the same drugs they use to chemically castrate sex offenders.

Why do people on askgaybros think we were a hatesub? by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

What, are they transphobiaphobic? Such haters!

Why do people on askgaybros think we were a hatesub? by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wouldn't call it far left. Gender stereotypes and sterilizing gay people isn't exactly left wing. It's more like a brutal - cosmetic surgery enforced heterosexuality. I agree they use hate to mean heresy.

TERF ROAD! Call the police! by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Girl wonders why gay men don't see her as a man 🙄 by artetolife in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Same sex desire is universal; opposite sex desire is not. This is simply a function of being one's own sex. It is not possible to be alienated from or unfamiliar with one's own form. Straight guys can have strong emotional attachments with guys, and same sex nudity (and even things like circle jerks) were until recently extremely common and not considered "gay" (being effeminate or being fucked up the *ss were - anything making you take a feminine role, to such an extent that "gay" is often synonymous with "womanly"). I've had two "straight" best friends cut me off for years in my 20s because they could not stomach any sexual attraction on my part, only to come back in my life in my 40s and permit some mild sex play, admitting the feelings were mutual back in the day. Straight people are straight because society demands it on pain of severe ostracism and worse. They were still executing homosexuals in Britain in the 19th century. No analysis of sexual orientation is complete without acknowledging this massive determinant.

Mandatory Gender Ideology training in WA Public Schools (lgb stuff start around 9:00) by xandit in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I appreciate some of what he says but this is all over the place. There is something about male biology that drives them towards females and is incredibly powerful? Then why have I never felt it? I thought that’s why we have the word “gay”?

I reject the notion of any inherent genetic sexual orientation in humans. I claim for humans alone, sexual desire is leaned, but like learning one’s native language, it is not chosen and cannot be unlearned, and that absent cultural imposition, any human being could potentially go in any direction, but may find that impossible after a certain age. And gender is political. It is masculine over feminine. So a dissatisfaction with gender hierarchy can contribute to an inability to participate in it and heterosexuality is scripted with gender hierarchy.

New Saidit Feature: Now you can block individual users, so all their posts and comments will be automatically hidden from your view by magnora7 in SaidIt

[–]joogabah 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I don't understand why it wasn't always designed this way. It's a great compromise. Hide the content but don't block it, so that sensitive users can blame themselves for peeking if they are offended by it.

New Saidit Feature: Now you can block individual users, so all their posts and comments will be automatically hidden from your view by magnora7 in SaidIt

[–]joogabah 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Zionism is Jewish nationalism, the cardinal feature of fascist ideologies.

New Saidit Feature: Now you can block individual users, so all their posts and comments will be automatically hidden from your view by magnora7 in SaidIt

[–]joogabah 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The irony is that Palestinians may be descendants of Jews who were alive in the region during Christ's time, who later converted to Islam.

Have you read Dr. Judy Wood? There are a lot of anomalies surrounding 9/11 that can't be explained by either of the competing theories (the nonsense official theory, or the conventional controlled demolition theory).

Censorship Thursday - share your sub bans here! by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I saw the stickied post but I didn't see how it related to what was being said or how it violated the rules. And I messaged you directly but you didn't respond. Can you clarify?

Does Communism support free speech? by LarrySwinger2 in funny

[–]joogabah 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Which communism? Where? Under what circumstances? Too much is subsumed under this term for this to be a meaningful question. Stalinism, the legacy of the Russian Revolution, does not, no. But the French Communards? The Socialist Party of Great Britain (which precedes the Russian Revolution and criticized it at the time)? Regarding Stalinism, it doesn't exist in a vacuum, but surrounded by hostile capitalist states hell bent on destroying it. That makes it paranoid (understandably).

I still can't understand how Rowling is getting absolutely slammed over reasonable, empathetic and what should be non-controversial statements. I feel like I'm going crazy here. by zerosis in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm hoping this will be like a vaccine for subsequent issues that reminds society why freedom of speech is so important (and that it is meaningless if it is not the freedom to offend). Most people appear to confuse what is familiar with what is true, or maybe I should say what is consensus with what is true, even though there are a ton of counter examples. That leaves them wide open to social manipulation. All those noxious ideologies from yesteryear that seem so outrageous? Now we get to see how that works.

Interesting take from our "friends" at r/gendercynical by CrashCourse in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For a brief moment Russia was ahead of the curve, decriminalizing homosexuality in 1922 (and legalizing abortion) and having an openly gay commissar in the early days of the Russian Revolution before Stalin rolled it all back in 1933. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lenins-revolution-red-gay-and-almost-glorious_b_5a03883be4b0204d0c17140e

Arty Morty: Trans Rights Are Not Like Gay Rights! Trans is NOT the New Gay by indeepshadows in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"There's a limit to the amount of masculinity that can come out of a woman's womb"? Why is there an implicit suggestion that homosexuality = effeminacy? And also, why does not having chosen to be homosexual automatically mean that it is genetic? I didn't choose to speak English either. But it is certainly not genetic, even if it does run in families. Personally, I think same sex desire is universal and only sublimated in heterosexuals. Otherwise there couldn't be cultures where it is practiced universally (Sambia, Ancient Greece). I read that in ancient Sparta, where it was ubiquitous, attraction to masculine warrior males was so intense than in order to copulate with their wives, females had to wear male clothing and shave their heads.

Why is it considered a weakness in the argument for gay acceptance that it might be learned? I honestly don't like the oft-repeated claim "why would I choose this?", as if one would prefer not to be.

I think a more interesting question is "why is it that some people aren't attracted to the opposite sex?". Same sex attraction appears primary and fundamental to me and the reason society is so overwhelmingly homosocial. Denial is not credible in the context of ostracism and violence. The elephant in the room: Why would society have to police something that only manifests in a small percentage? It makes more sense if it is a widespread temptation that has to be pushed back.

Why do people on askgaybros think we were a hatesub? by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Stalinism recriminalized homosexuality. To be fair, the Soviet Union was the first country to decriminalize it under Lenin (they even had openly gay commissars in the 20s), along with abortion. Stalinism is so antithetical to the original Russian Revolution, he eventually murdered nearly all of the original Bolsheviks, and reversed many of their progressive ideas. There is a reason they call Stalinism "Red Fascism". To equate these crimes with the left neglects this complexity. Stalin's "innovation" of "socialism in one country" is just nationalism, a cardinal feature of fascism (a right-wing tendency). A Left Opposition existed under Trotsky (co-leader of the Russian Revolution with Lenin), who was murdered by Stalin's agent in Mexico in 1940. The myth that Stalinism is Communism served both Stalin and the West.

Seattle Seahawks announcer Dori Monson suspended over tweet by pacmanla in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not that "fully transitioning" changes their sex one iota. I would actually prefer people not to mutilate their bodies. I bristle at the argument that somehow having surgery makes them more acceptable as the opposite sex.

How to support LGB youth who have gender dysphoria by reluctant_commenter in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Queer is basically the n word for homosexuals. Older gay men are deeply offended by it.

The support for LGBT is dropping for the first time in ages thanks to TRA's and nonbinaries. by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Ancient Sparta and Sambia. If it exists anywhere universally, it can't be genetic.

The support for LGBT is dropping for the first time in ages thanks to TRA's and nonbinaries. by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

And I want no part of any groveling to straights. Your take implies there is something wrong with same sex desire. There is nothing wrong with it and there are entire societies where it is practiced universally. It cannot be genetic. Straight people are straight primarily because most cultures demand it.

The support for LGBT is dropping for the first time in ages thanks to TRA's and nonbinaries. by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Says who? There are people who come to realize late in life that they have a capacity for some sex desire.

What would be wrong if it did spread? Your reasoning comes from a place of groveling ("don't worry, you can't get it!"). Same sex desire is not a plague. It's normal. The fact that there are societies where it exists universally disproves any genetic determinism.

The support for LGBT is dropping for the first time in ages thanks to TRA's and nonbinaries. by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Homophobia is not fear of a particular person or people tho. It is fear of same sex love because straight people are policed out of it and must sublimate it. The goal of gay liberation is to liberate this form of love for all humanity to be able to access without shame if they want to.

The support for LGBT is dropping for the first time in ages thanks to TRA's and nonbinaries. by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Never forget that homosexual desire is universal. It is only sublimated in straights. The goal of gay liberation should be desublimation. That happens by ennobling same sex love. There is the question of why gay people aren't attracted to the opposite sex, but I think that has to do with an incompatibility with the hetero script - for myriad reasons. It's easy to see this with lesbians, who are very often confident strong women who do not want to be dominated by a male. There are likely many routes to exclusive same sex desire, but there are also salient trends, and gender nonconformity tends to be a major one, which is why trans ideology is mixed up with us in the first place, even though they are something different entirely. There is a difference between rejecting aspects of one's sex's stereotypes, and trying to ape the other's.

Mandatory Gender Ideology training in WA Public Schools (lgb stuff start around 9:00) by xandit in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There is a fascinating explanation of this idea that is no longer available but still in the internet archive. It asserts that our massive leap in intelligence is due not only to a larger neocortex but a repurposing of neuronal groups. This requires an understanding of the mutual exclusivity of instinct and intelligence (instinct being involuntary, genetic behaviors that execute when the appropriate stimuli is in play). The advantage of being human that no other animal has achieved (except perhaps at the most rudimentary level) is the ability to program behavior via learning and language. We are the only species with linguistic consciousness and it absolutely impacts our behavior and desires. Looking to animals for insights into human beings is rather stupid if this obvious and most salient fact about people is ignored.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100425013758/http://www.humansexualevolution.com/

Trump administration to attack LGBT rights at UN by BEB in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Why should conversion therapy be banned if people want to be straight? I’m pretty militantly gay but I also believe in human freedom. If I decide I want to be straight for any reason and I pay people to facilitate that, then why should it be banned? When did things change from leaving people alone and expanding human rights to demanding others think as commanded?

I find it rich that you are not permitted to attempt a conversion to heterosexuality but they will encourage you to cut your dick off. I’d rather have a wife, thanks.

This makes me want to become straight. by artetolife in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lierre Keith (radical feminist outspoken against trans ideology) also wrote The Vegetarian Myth. A Vegan for 20 years, she is now ketogenic, after claiming veganism ruined her health.

Slave owner by [deleted] in politics

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I thought slavery was only 155 years ago.

“Gender Is Not a Social Construct” -- Debra Soh, Interviewee. by GayNotQueer in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

What? Why is she conflating gender with sex? Does she think people are biologically masculine and feminine? Gender is the unfreedom of cultural roles forced on people based on their sex. Why is there so much confusion about the difference?

Thoughts on Drag Race? by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Does it normalize performative femininity or poke fun at it? Drag could be gender subversive by making it a joke. Trans cannot tho.

MADtv skit about male lesbians is now a reality. by turtleduck23 in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe they could tell which way the winds were blowing and used comedy to sneak in a political point. Radical feminists have been warning about trans ideology since the 70s.

MADtv skit about male lesbians is now a reality. by turtleduck23 in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A lot of styles and fashions seemed to have frozen in the 90s (compared to the pace of change in preceding decades).

Vanity Fair had an article about it awhile back: https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2012/01/prisoners-of-style-201201

Does Communism support free speech? by LarrySwinger2 in funny

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Marxists are not opponents of capitalism. They are awed by it. But they see it as a transitional state, one that at a certain point becomes overwhelmed by its own contradictions. To be blind to the trajectory of capitalism is just as erroneous as to be blind to its accomplishments. Marx compared it to a tie on a sapling that helps its growth early on but distorts it if left for too long. Capitalism is not evil. It is antiquated. The evidence is that private property, divided into competing national states, threatens to end all life on the planet, via nuclear war, climate change and overpopulation. Exponential growth has limits. Capitalist thinking tends to ignore "dialectics" or the idea that change is fundamental to our reality. Everything is born, grows and then dies. Quantitative changes eventually turn into qualitative changes that can negate the earlier condition. The same is true of capitalist markets and private property. They are human innovations, appropriate to their time, not eternal unchanging truths.

Does Communism support free speech? by LarrySwinger2 in funny

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Capitalism is based on a tiny class of owners exploiting the labor of the masses. It permitted literal chattel slavery for centuries. The workplace is authoritarian. Nobody gets hurt by capitalism? What capitalism? It isn't all just first world service sector "labor aristocracy" jobs out there. Remember the chimney sweeps and child labor in Britain during the Industrial Revolution? Look, if capitalism were not oppressive, communism would not exist. Communism is a reaction to the brutality of capitalism. If capitalists don't want communism, treat workers well. If a revolution happens and a communist dictatorship results, the blame lies with the prior sociopathic ruling class abusing people with overwork and low wages and gross inequality. All wealth is reducible to human labor power. All wealth is produced by workers. Capitalist rentiers earn passive income (profit, interest and rent) by virtue of a legal title and no work at all! They can pay managers to oversee their enterprises, and most just own stocks in businesses they don't even have to think about. They are the real welfare queens.

Does Communism support free speech? by LarrySwinger2 in funny

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think this idea comes from an equation of Stalinism with communism. Classical Marxism uses socialism and communism interchangeably. When referring to authoritarian bureaucracies descended from the Russian Revolution, Stalinism is clearer. Stalin represents a political counter-revolution, resting on the economic substructure set up by the Russian Revolution (a state that works in the economic interests of workers, or at least gives lip service to it as its raison d'être). It inevitably restores capitalism, but since it is a left over of revolutionaries, they either cynically rule for personal privileges or delude themselves while facilitating capitalist restoration.

Looks like askgaybros is starting to peak on the far lefts homophobia by Ambisextrous in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is not far Left. It is far Right, conservative sex role stereotypes in an Pride Trojan horse. Sex role stereotypes are for creating soldiers and mothers, a nationalistic aim that has nothing to do with equality or economic justice for the exploited working class.

Arty Morty: Trans Rights Are Not Like Gay Rights! Trans is NOT the New Gay by indeepshadows in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would appreciate a more precise criticism than my arguments going down the drain. I just hear that as "I don't like them". Homosexuality was glorified as the highest form of love in Ancient Greece. I don't think that is controversial.

Why do people on askgaybros think we were a hatesub? by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Homosexuality as a term was coined in the 1860s in German and the 1890s in English. Prior to that there were only prohibitions on sodomy, not concepts of types of people.

Why do people on askgaybros think we were a hatesub? by [deleted] in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The same could be said about the French Revolution and the English Civil War. Unfortunately, liberalism + capitalism just seems to immiserate the working class, and degenerates. Holding up the United States as a model in opposition to the Soviet Union forgets centuries of literal slavery, war, repeated depressions, and of course, the genocide and persecution of indigenous peoples, all of which caused the communist movement in the first place. Even North Korea wouldn't be what it is if America hadn't killed 25% of its population. All of these things are woven together in a single interrelated whole. Communist revolutions tend to be the products of the barbarity of imperialist World Wars.

I know some of you don't like Akkad but here's a good take-down of both Riley Dennis and Lindsey Ellis' video about J.K. rowling. by xandit in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What? So ancient armies didn't enforce conscription and the male monopoly on violence happened after the American Revolution? George Washington shot men who wouldn't fight in the Revolution. Why do you think men commonly wear short hair? In antiquity, short hair was for slaves and soldiers only.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190318164751/http://www.humansexualevolution.com/

I know some of you don't like Akkad but here's a good take-down of both Riley Dennis and Lindsey Ellis' video about J.K. rowling. by xandit in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Homosexuality in animals is inevitably bisexual. I am unaware of any other species with exclusive homosexuality. All other species are compelled to mate on given environmental cues. Humans are the only species that can choose not to reproduce, or that is even aware that sex leads to reproduction. In humans, sex is not instinctive the way it is in animals. No animals require sex education. Sexual desire is not equivalent to sexual instinct. Instinct is involuntary and automatic and the opposite of intelligence which is learned and consciously controlled. Humans are the latter, every other species is the former. And of necessity. Without an inviolable sexual instinct to reproduce, those species would die out. Humans, with their intellect that understand sexual reproduction, can and do enforce heterosexuality culturally. Haven't you ever asked yourself why people even give a damn who you sleep with? What is the motivation to police it? There is some kind of general awareness of the "pitfall" and contagion of homosexuality, because of the primary nature of homosexual desire, owning to the fact that it is learned in humans, and humans are sex segregated. Ironically, gendering makes all people prefer their own sex. Heterosexuals only claim to prefer each other in a sexual context, which is dubious given the constant threat of homosexuality conservatives are very aware of.

If homosexuality were nothing but same sex attraction, how can you tell people are gay by looking at them? They are in some respect, gender nonconforming, very often. I assert that the refusal to conform to gender is one route to same sex desire. It throws off heterosexual desire which is a desire based on difference in power, and learned. Gay men love women. Straight men fuck them.

People are heterosexual because it is demanded under the threat of violence and ostracism that they be heterosexual. No one's opinion of their own sexuality is credible within that context.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190318164751/http://www.humansexualevolution.com/

Down With LGBTQ!* by John Lauritsen by joogabah in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'm highly skeptical that anyone has to show dogs how to do it. They routinely engage in mounting behaviors in a stereotyped way that doesn't at all look voluntary but completely instinctive. They cannot choose not to reproduce and avoid sex for life, the way human beings most certainly can (we are the only species that can). I assert that orientation in humans is learned. Pleasure and arousal are biological, but how that gets oriented is conditioned by early masturbatory fantasies. I assert that since all masturbation involves one's own form, there is a natural tendency for homosexual desire, and that civilization knows this and must fight it and use cultural, institutional enforcement to ensure the reproduction of the species. To the extent that an individual never bothers to fantasize about the opposite sex early in life, that possibility wanes as time goes on. It's like learning a native language. It isn't chosen and it isn't changeable but it is completely learned. Gender nonconformity makes opposite sex attraction less likely to the extent that heterosexuality is constructed in a gendered way. Nonconformity upsets this highly scripted way of relating. This is why liberation from the sexual division of labor and sex role stereotypes is contemporary with an expanding awareness of and acceptance of homosexuality in a potentially egalitarian form.

Finally, I am aware there is a political motivation to insist that homosexuality is unchosen, but I believe this to be a form of self hatred. I never liked it when I would hear people say "why would I choose this"? It is as if one is off the hook morally if they don't choose it. I dislike the implication in this framework that there is something negative or degrading about homosexual desire and that only complete lack of choice can justify it. Gay is good. There is nothing wrong with it and if someone were to choose it blatantly they would in no way be immoral. Straight, to the extent it is based on the subordination and objectification of women and the militarization of men, may be bad. Gay shows the way. That's old school liberation. It shows the way for everyone, not some fringe minority. Same sex desire is universal, even if opposite sex desire is not. In straight people it is just sublimated. Gay shows the way out of the inequality of heterosexuality, and this is why it is politically dangerous and opposed and so closely linked with women's lib. Besides, being born that way doesn't save anyone from the Nazis. There is no political cover in that.

Walt Whitman: "Intense and loving comradeship, the personal and passionate attachment of man to man — which, hard to define, underlies the lessons and ideals of the profound saviours of every land and age, and which seems to promise, when thoroughly developed, cultivated, and recognized in manners and literature, the most substantial hope and safety of the future of these states will then be fully expressed. It is to the development, identification and general prevalence of that fervid comradeship (the adhesive love, at least rivaling the amative love [i.e. heterosexual love; the terms homosexual and heterosexual had not yet been coined] hitherto possessing imaginative literature, if not going beyond it) that I look for the counter-balance and offset of our materialistic and vulgar American democracy and for the spiritualization thereof. Many will say it is a dream and will not follow my inferences: but I confidentially expect a time when there will be seen running through it like a half-hid warp through all the myriad audible and visible worldly interests of America, threads of manly friendship, fond and loving, pure and sweet, strong and life-long, carried to degrees hitherto unknown, not only giving tone to individual character and making it unprecedentedly emotional, muscular, heroic and refined, but having the deepest relation to general politics. I say democracy infers such loving comradeship as its most inevitable twin or counterpart, without which it will be incomplete, in vain and incapable of perpetuating itself. Something more may be added, for while I am about it, I would make a full confession. I also sent out Leaves of Grass to arouse and set flowing in men's and women's hearts, young and old, endless streams of living, pulsating, terrible, irrepressible yearning, surely more or less down underneath in most human souls this never-satisfied appetite for sympathy and this boundless offering of sympathy — this universal democratic companionship, this old, eternal, yet ever- new exchange of adhesiveness, so fitly emblematic of America — I have given in that book undisguisedly, declaredly, the openest expression. Besides, important as they are in my purpose as emotional expressions for humanity, the special meaning of the "Calamus" cluster of Leaves of Grass, (and more or less running through the book and cropping out in Drumstaps), mainly resides in its political significance. In my opinion, it is by a fervent, accepted development of comradeship, the beautiful and sane affection of man for man, latent in all the young fellows, north and south, east and west, — it is by this I say and by what goes directly and indirectly along with it that the United States of the future, I cannot too often repeat, are to be most effectively welded together, intercalated, anneal'd into a living union."

From the Nazis in 1928: "It is not necessary that you and I live, but it is necessary that the German people live. And it can live if it can fight, for life means fighting. [The] German nation... can only fight if it maintains its masculinity. It can only maintain its masculinity if it exercises discipline, especially in matters of love. Free love and deviance are undisciplined. Therefore, we reject you, as we reject anything which hurts our people. Anyone who even thinks of homosexual love is our enemy. We reject anything which emasculates our people and makes them a plaything for our enemies. ... We therefore reject any form of unnatural sexuality, above all homosexuality, because it robs us of our last chance to liberate our people from the chains of slavery under which they now suffer."

Down With LGBTQ!* by John Lauritsen by joogabah in LGBDropTheT

[–]joogabah[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ancient Sparta and Sambia come to mind.

If sexuality isn't learned, then why the enormous effort to steer it into heterosexuality? If homosexuality is just a small minority on the fringes, why would it be such a central point of contention? Why do conservatives (who do not believe it is genetic) fear its spread to such a degree?

If sexuality isn't "learned" then why do we have sex ed, and why is it always claimed that gay men learn about sex via pornography? (Animals have sex on instinct without any instruction or mimicking necessary, and they cannot help but respond to the appropriate cues - they cannot choose not to reproduce the way people can). Human sexuality is vastly more complex and varied and stylized (with fashions and trends like other human activity).

If it isn't learned, how can this be possible:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040609102548/http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_957945.html "Childless couple told to try sex A German couple who went to a fertility clinic after eight years of marriage have found out why they are still childless - they weren't having sex. The University Clinic of Lubek said they had never heard of a case like it after examining the couple who went to see them last month for fertility tests. Doctors subjected them to a series of examinations and found they were both apparently fertile, and should have had no trouble conceiving. A clinic spokesman said: "When we asked them how often they had had sex, they looked blank, and said: "What do you mean?". "We are not talking retarded people here, but a couple who were brought up in a religious environment who were simply unaware, after eight years of marriage, of the physical requirements necessary to procreate." The 30-year-old wife and her 36-year-old husband are now being given sex therapy lessons while the university clinic undertakes a study to try to find out if there are more couples with a similar lack of sex education."